whats missing is true producers( not beat makers)....
This thread touches too many topics so I'm only going to focus on the production aspect.
This is for those people sayin bay area rap sucks because of the producers. You can't say that Rick Rock, Mike Mosely and many other established bay area producers suck. I agree with Tre-8 on the things he mentioned that make a real producers. They are talented because they not only know how to make a beat, but they can mix, they know what frequencies to boost or cut back on for every sound to make the song sound cohesive as a whole and they also know where to put changes in the beats and when a vocal would sound good compared to a rap verse etc.. That is only a small aspect of the whole process involved in making a complete track from a real producer. These guys get paid good $ for what they do because of their experience and credibility. Go and get a track from Just Blaze, Rodney Jerkins, Lil Jon, Dr Dre, Scott Storch or any other producers outside the bay and see if you can convince them to hook you up with a track for cheap. You get what you pay for.
If you want those type of results, you have to expect to pay something close to that magnitude depending on the producer's credibility and knowledge. Now, I know not everyone has the funds to pay for them type of tracks but think to yourself, why should this producer make me a track at that quality level if he can? The point is that the producer didn't just drop a gang of scratch on all his gear, etc... to just devote a lot of his time into making you a track, getting other people to play live instruments, mixing and mastering your shit to commercial quality levels for free. The producer wants something out of it too. It doesn't always have to be money, if you're independent, you might hook him up with another artist, or tell him what you have on the table for the particular song. If you're a major artist, then of course the producer will get his royalties and the credibility, which I think most up and coming producers would probably jump on that opportunity rather than receiving a few bucks for a track that might not do nothing outside of the bay. The point is the producer wants exposure like the artist and has to have some incentive to put in his 100% quality and knowledge.
I agree the producer should put in his 2 cents about what sounds good, where something should be and whether or not something is missing or off. However, sometimes you get artists who are stuck on their ways and think they know how everything should sound. So, the producer either thinks shit I'm not getting paid enough to deal with an argument over something small or the producer might think shit he paid me, so he's the boss and decides where and how he wants shit as long as the artist is happy. That's why I think the producer and artist have to have personable relationship so that they trust each other and have good honest communication.
Bottom line is cats are wanting Dr Dre quality and time, but don't expect to give anything in return. That's why you get shitty music. Not because the producer sucks, it's because either the artist sucks, the producer can't really produce a whole song outside of making a beat or he doesn't have incentive to give you all of his effort. It's a combination of the artist and producer.
This is compressed opinion on the subject.
Thanks.
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