Who should be responsible for fixing the problems with blacks in the US?

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HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
Maybe it came out wrong, but I'm just trying to illustrate that Kryptik's original comment of;
no it came how EXACTLY how it was supposed to.
What I'm sayin' is that I can't buy the fact that in the past 100 - 150 years, the black population in America has evolved to have "lower bars". If it were the case that humans could evolve in that manner then why aren't white people aren't terrible workers and the black population in charge of most labor? Afterall, they were the ones in the fields while the white man didn't do shit but sit around and sip lemonade... Understand? Don't call me racist, it's pointless to do so.
do you NOT understand that when blacks TRY to organize,EXPAND, NETWORK ETC ETC ETC THEY ARE SHOT DOWN,ROBBED,KILLED FIREBOMBED ETC ETC ETC? IT *DOESNT* HAPPEN ON THE SCALE THAT IT USED TO...LETS SAY 50 YEARS AGO BUT IT STILL HAPPENS. ITS NOT POINTLESS TO CALL YOU A RACIST WHEN YOU MAKE COMMENTS LIKE YOURS. YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NOT ONLY A PHYSICAL THING BUT A MENTAL THING.
Tell your mom to stop "conditioning" you.... Don't "condition" your children.
MY MOM HASNT CONDITIONED ME. IM GONNA GIVE YOU A PASS ON IT THIS TIME. CONSIDERING I DIDNT MENTION MY MOM. NEXT TIME IM GONNA PUT YOU ON BLAST.
Blacks are currently conditioning themselves to use the opression of their grandmothers and grandfathers to keep them from advancing themselves as a culture. It's my feeling that blacks are only as "conditioned" as they keep themselves. Slavery never has and never will change what happens when you go in for a job interview.
YOU ARE A PRODUCT OF YOUR ENVIRONMENT.
Oh you think this never happened to me? Stop making skin color your primary issue. I firmly believe that age plays a much bigger role in all of these things than you'd like to believe. I as a white person can't walk up to a guy in a store who's followin' me around and say "you're following me because I'm white!" It's stupid.
YOU SEEM LIKE A GUY WHO WATCHES A LOT OF TELEVISION. HAVE YOU EVER SAW SHOWS ON TV THAT SHOW BLACKS,WHITES AND HOW THEY ARE TREATED DIFFERENT BASED ON ATTIRE? YOU AS A "WHITE PERSON" CAN GET *MORE* BECAUSE OF YOUR SKIN COLOR. SOCIETY IS GEARED TOWARDS "RIGHT IS WHITE" AND "JOHNNY AND MOLLY".
This happens to me all the time, and not because of my skin color, but because of my parents generations fear of our generation. And to be honest, I can't really complain because kids my age and a few years older have fucked it all up. They do rob, they do steal, they can't sit in a parking lot without smashing bottles or breaking lights or generally vandalizing something and it's ruined a lot of things for me... I can accept that whether I like it or not, people of my generation have genuinely fucked up a lot of things for honest and generally nice people. Maybe if you feel that your skin color plays a role in that you should take a step back and ponder why like I do when I'm followed or walking past a car and someone sets the alarm..
COLOR HAS A LOT TO DO WITH HOW ONE IS PERCEIVED. ATTIRE HAS A LOT TO DO WITH HOW ONE IS PERCEIVED.
Yeah dude, I'm just walkin' past your car because I plan on opening it in front of your face and stealing your ashtray. Fuckin' moron.
MY BROTHER JUST HAD THIS HAPPEN TO HIM IN IDAHO. HE LIVES IN NAMPA AND WORKED AT A PRISON. HE WAS WALKING DOWN THE STREET AND ALL OF A SUDDEN A WHITE WOMAN OCMES OUT AND SAYS HE IS TRYING TO BREAK INTO HER CAR.

MY BROTHER IS 35
MY BROTHER IS BLACK

WHAT DID AGE HAVE TO DO WITH IT?
Well these are both the same question and I really don't understand your point. I mean if anything black people are segregating themselves for just this reason, if that's what you're getting at. Maybe the point is that white people market products to whoever will buy them, and blacks market things to blacks. This is another reason white people feel distanced from blacks. Not because we don't like them but because (and this is my honest opinion) we feel like they don't WANT to be liked by us.
YEAH I DID MESS UP ON TEH QUESTION BECAUSE I WAS IN A HURRY.

I WILL GET BACK TO THIS LATER ON TODAY. ****DONT**** REPLY TO THIS PART UNTIL I FINISH IT. THANKS.


:h:
 

EDJ

Sicc OG
May 3, 2002
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ZERO MEDIA,
YOU ARE CLUELESS. YOU THINK THE TABLE IS LEVELED AND EVEN? YOU THINK CAUSE 5 NUBIANS(BLAK MEN) ARE PREJUDICE OR BETTER YET BITTER AT WHITE FOLK, IT EQUALS TO 5 WHITEBOYS BEIN' RACIST? NOT ONLY DO BLAK MEN HAVE THE PERCEPTION OF SOCIETY AgAINST US, BUT A WHITEMAN'S HATE WEIgHS MORE AgAINST A BLAK MAN CAUSE IT TIES TO SOCIAL POLITICAL, AND ECONOMIC.

IF A BLAK MAN IS PREJUDICE, RACIST OR WHATEVA YOU WANNA CALL IT, WHAT REPERCUSSION IS THAT TO A WHITE MAN? SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE?
 
Apr 25, 2002
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EDJ, we're folks...but you've got issues to get over with the race thing...not saying they're wrong...just things you need to work out for ya self


but people, WE CANNOT FORGET ABOUT RACE, untill the past is fully realized and we find a solution...
nobody is color blind, and those that say they are, well, they're lying...
the people i grew up with that i consider my family, are black mexican and samoan(with a few white folks) and they are as close to me or closer then some of my own REAL family...but i'd be a git damn liar and so would they if we lied like we didn't see WHAT color eachother was...

you can't forget the past, you can only hope to see what the problem was, and Learn from it to prevent the same thing from happening again
 
May 17, 2002
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@Zer0.MediA - after reading some of your post I must say you have a warped and unfortunately typical view of blacks.

I'm not saying you are absolutely wrong, but WOW. you've said some fuct up shit.

I welcome you opinion but you REALLY should educate yourself with an encompassing knowledge of blacks, black culture, and black history.

Some of your judgements are racist from the fact that you DON'T know. and culturally you have limited your perspectives to your surroundings.

I personally forgive you for being ignorant. but now that you know your shortcoming if you don't rectify it you will just be considered stupid.

Why do you think that there are african tribes, indian tribes, asian tribes and no white tribes (meaning underdeveloped civilizations)

all of the races who have underdeveloped societies have been VICTIMS of european conquests. all of these races have had THEIR civilizations RIPPED out from under them.

they are the remnant of their history and are thriving, surviving, or reviving with the leftovers and scraps they have scraped together.

there would be no "uncivilized" nations if it wasn't for the imbalances in the world.

the asian, black, and indian civilizations are disparate because of "Julius Cesars", "Alexander the greats", "Constantines" "Christopher Columbuses" etc. . . etc . . .

it is an unintelligible greed inherent to white culture that has SLAUGHTERED entire races, cultures, environments, species, etc etc.

How can civilizations develop or grow when they are constantly being decimated by the existing high powers of the world?

Why do you think white kids are more attracted to materialistic derogatory and chaotic hip hop than back pack hip hop?

cultural pathology.

It is whites like the Bush family in history that have fuct over the ancient multitudes.

excuse my tangent. but after rereading some of your perspectives WOW.
 
Nov 14, 2002
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nobody is color blind, and those that say they are, well, they're lying...
the people i grew up with that i consider my family, are black mexican and samoan(with a few white folks) and they are as close to me or closer then some of my own REAL family...but i'd be a git damn liar and so would they if we lied like we didn't see WHAT color eachother was...
Exactly... and I don't claim that I don't SEE color, but I don't judge anyone on it untill I get to know their character.

I know it's cliche of me to say such a thing, but to be really, really, really, honest, I only have maybe one or two white friends. My girlfriend is 100% columbian, I've got two best friends, one being 100% from Uruguay (he lived there for a while before moving here) and the other is just flat out Puerto Rican... This one friend of mine is a bi-Indian. LoL... I should call him one of these days, I haven't heard from him in a while.

And no, I don't walk around acting like I'm from the ghetto. My pants fit correctly and when I'm not listening to rap, I'm listening to Guns N Roses or Marilyn Manson.

I guess I understand to a point where you all are coming from, but I just wish you would understand that as a person who doesn't hate blacks, I honestly believe that racism is only as big as a race makes it... And I do honestly believe that many times the case is that minorities are raised to believe they are opressed, and many times the case is that race is the issue brought up when age is the real cause....

Why can't we all fight together as white, black, indian, asian, middle eastern etc. YOUNG people to show that just because of how we dress, or what music we listen to, we are not criminals (well most of us).

I would love to start an organization with you all to work on these things, and in fact, although I might not be able to involve you in it, I am going to work on a program in my area to work on this because I'm having a seriously hard time accepting that this should carry on in the future. Whether I'm right or wrong, the mentality needs to change on either side.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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Zer0.MediA said:

I would love to start an organization with you all to work on these things, and in fact, although I might not be able to involve you in it, I am going to work on a program in my area to work on this because I'm having a seriously hard time accepting that this should carry on in the future. Whether I'm right or wrong, the mentality needs to change on either side.
I wouldn't like to start an organization (that deals with fixing African problems) with someone that believed that the Europeans were discovering civlized worlds while Africans were running around in loin cloth denouncing spirits.

I don't think there is a black person in this world that would be dumb enough to start or even involve someone in there organization that holds your views on black people. If there is a black person that would be willing to be your partner I would like to meet this brotha...

Before you get active, I think you may have to find out whats actually wrong in the black community. You discovered one part and thats blacks "Holding themselves down" however you haven't even scratched the surface on why there mentality is like that.
 
Nov 14, 2002
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Tenkamenin said:


I wouldn't like to start an organization (that deals with fixing African problems) with someone that believed that the Europeans were discovering civlized worlds while Africans were running around in loin cloth denouncing spirits.


Hahahhaahaaa...

I don't think there is a black person in this world that would be dumb enough to start or even involve someone in there organization that holds your views on black people. If there is a black person that would be willing to be your partner I would like to meet this brotha...
You could talk to MasZive from the Strange forum...

Before you get active, I think you may have to find out whats actually wrong in the black community. You discovered one part and thats blacks "Holding themselves down" however you haven't even scratched the surface on why there mentality is like that.
I'm talking more about getting together a diverse population of kids who can maybe go to schools and ask kids their opinions on racism and what we can do about it... Plus on the side plant some trees or something to make it more of a youth issue than a race issue because frankly, eyes and ears close pretty quickly when you're discussing race.
 
YOUNGMOE said:

but people, WE CANNOT FORGET ABOUT RACE, untill the past is fully realized and we find a solution...
nobody is color blind, and those that say they are, well, they're lying...
the people i grew up with that i consider my family, are black mexican and samoan(with a few white folks) and they are as close to me or closer then some of my own REAL family...but i'd be a git damn liar and so would they if we lied like we didn't see WHAT color eachother was...

you can't forget the past, you can only hope to see what the problem was, and Learn from it to prevent the same thing from happening again
So damn true.
 
Nov 14, 2002
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Hey thanks for hooking up the link... I think the midi is fuckin' up my puter and for some reason making it not able for me to print the page but when I get to read it, I'll most likely say

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS 1712 SPEECH FROM AN IDIOTIC SLAVE OWNER HAVE TO DO WITH ME AND MY VIEWS!?

I'll let you know what happens when I get to it.
 
@Zero...you said you were unfamiliar with the Willie Lynch speech, so I posted a link to it. If that link doesn't work for you, there are many more that will. It's been brought up because it details how the 'black family unit' was broken down so that slaves could be controlled mentally, socially, economically, etc, etc, etc, and how this would not only effect one generation of blacks, but generations of years to come.
 
Nov 14, 2002
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So you're saying that after 300 years, the 'black family unit' hasn't recouped? And it's in your opinion that after 300 years it couldn't have?

Funny, my black friends have some really nice families and even better family structure..... No, they're not rich.
 
Yes, that's what I'm saying. And yes, I am aware that there are black families who are really 'nice'. I'm saying that this was the system that was used & proven to be effective. Traces of the effects those tactics used are still very obvious today. And I'm not even talking about racism between blacks & whites. I'm talking about black on black racism where people with lighter skin tones are perceived one way & dark-skinned people are perceived another way.

Do you feel that there was anything in that has been done that should have brought the black family unit out of this 'depression' or something that should have reversed the effects of the 'making-of-a-slave' mentality?

I'm just asking for your honest opinions.
 
Originally posted by KrypticFlowz
slavery isnt something that happened eons ago...DO NOT COMPARE TIME WITH OUR PUNY LIFE SPANS!!! everyone wants to think problems in society will be fixed in a life span [\quote]

Oh, and 300 years was NOT that long ago. That's only a few generations. It seems like a long time ago to people because we don't even live half as long as that.
 
Nov 14, 2002
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Anything that has been done? No. I really don't think that anything has specifically been "done", but I also don't think there is anything you can do that would solve the problem. What could be done, is your parents could have taught you, and you can teach your children that years and years ago, there was something called slavery. Nowadays, people as a whole are more caring and generous and the world is a much better and understanding place. There's ignorant people out there, but there's also murderers and rapists, and in the same way murder and rape will never dissapear (as much as we'd like it to) neither will ignorance. The only thing you can *do* to take the black family unit out of the making of a slave mentality is to raise new generations of blacks to believe what is true; There's an infinite number of opportunities out there no matter what your skin color is.

However, it's my opinion that if there's someone in our generation that has a "making-of-a-slave" mentality, he's purposefully being ignorant. For what, I don't know...

I don't look down on blacks and don't know any whites (although I don't really know too many white people outside of my family) who do. I mean, I live in a suburban neighborhood, but if I went to the highschool and took pictures of the kids playin' handball and the kats runnin' the track, it would prove my point.

I honestly feel that blacks instigate racism by constantly bringing it up, and there's nothing that can be done about it other than waiting for them to grow up and just live.
 
Zer0.MediA said:
Anything that has been done? No. I really don't think that anything has specifically been "done", but I also don't think there is anything you can do that would solve the problem. What could be done, is your parents could have taught you, and you can teach your children that years and years ago, there was something called slavery. Nowadays, people as a whole are more caring and generous and the world is a much better and understanding place.


I'm a little bit confused because you say that you don't think that there's anything I can do, but then suggest something that my parents could have done & something that I can do for my kids. My parent's always taught me to be the best I can be, regardless of my skin color. But I also was taught that people would sometimes expect less of me because of my skin color. And this came more so from my mother (who is white) than it did from any of my fathers (biological, step-father, & legal father-who are all black). And I am only one person. I chose not to fall into the categories that some people thought I should have. Yes, I was pregnant at 16. But I also used that as my excuse to get 2 college degrees by the age of 22. But like I said, I am only one person. There are millions and millions of other black people who need to make decisions for themselves. So I do agree that a lot of black people hold themselves back, but I also believe that is not always the case.

Also, I would find it hard to teach my kids that "there was something called slavery, and that nowadays, people as a whole are more caring and generous and the world is a much better and understanding place," since this is not something I believe. First of all, slavery was not just 'something' that happened. To put it lightly, it was an event that not only changed an entire race of people, but also changed the world as a whole. It was far more than 'something' that just happened & now it's over.

Do YOU honestly believe that the world/people as a whole are more caring & generous & the world is a much better and understanding place??? To some degree, yes. But to the point where I would cloud my child's mental picture of the world? Hell no. I think more than anything that the world/people are more tolerant, if anything, not caring, generous, & understanding. I feel that the countries/governments are just more connected & what happens in one directly affects what happens in many. And this is why countries/governments intervene in the actions of other countries/governments. Not because they care. Just remember, the Civil War was NOT fought to abolish slavery. Do you think that the US govt really gives a shit about the people of Iraq being under Saddam Hussein's rule? Do you believe that US govt really gives a shit about the people of Israel? Once again, I have to give a 'Hell No.' If the US govt didn't have some sort of 'interest' (interest meaning some sort of personal gain), they could care less whether Saddam kills everyone in Iraq or if all the Israeli's accidentally blew themselves up in some suicide bombing crap.

But with all that said, I don't want you to think that I don't believe that there are caring, generous, & understanding individuals in the world. I just believe that their numbers are not as high on the scale as you believe they are.


The only thing you can *do* to take the black family unit out of the making of a slave mentality is to raise new generations of blacks to believe what is true; There's an infinite number of opportunities out there no matter what your skin color is.
I agree with most of this statement. But like you said, blacks must raise new 'generations' with this new thought process. The key word here is 'generations,' implying more than one. A generation is not 5 years. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, a generation can be defined as 'the average span of time between the birth of parents and that of their offspring.' So, a generation is roughly (on average) between 20 and 40 years, give and take a few years here and there. This is not something we can expect to see in our lifetime, or our children & grandchildren's lifetime. This is something that has to be instilled, then constantly & consistently reinforced. It can be instilled now, but it is hard to constantly & consistently reinforce ideas to children who can't see the product of what is being reinforced. What I mean is that you can tell kids all you want about how they shouldn't use their race as an excuse & they can be anything they want to be, etc, etc. But it will be harder for them to hold on to the idea that their race isn't an excuse for failure when they could be subject to other people using their race as excuse for them (for example, in school). Also, how can you make your kids believe they can be anything they want to be when there hasn't been a black or female president? Children learn by example. And if all they see on the poster on the wall in their classrooms are the faces of a bunch of old white men as presidents, how can they relate to that?

And I do agree that there are an infinite number of opportunities out there, but people need to figure out how to overcome the obstacles that stand in the way to achieving these opportunities. A lot of times, it might seem that the obstacles are too great to overcome, therefore, the attempt at the opportunity is never taken.

However, it's my opinion that if there's someone in our generation that has a "making-of-a-slave" mentality, he's purposefully being ignorant. For what, I don't know...


This mentality has been conditioned into our brains. It's not something that you can just make or break. It must be unconditioned. You don't just wake up one day & say, 'Hey, I think I'll change my whole way of thinking today!' That's damn near impossible. For example, look at rap videos. What kind of girls do you see being paraded around? The light-skinned ones with long, 'good' hair. Rarely do you see a dark-skinned, bald-head girl sitting in the passenger seat of Jay-Z's ride. So this reinforces the 'making-of-a-slave' mentality by reinforcing the difference between light & dark skinned blacks. Me & my sisters are all light-skinned, with long hair. Whenever females start problems with us, it's never the light-skinned ones with long hair, it's 99.9% of the time, a dark-skinned girl with short hair. Other kids have even come up to her & said, "Do you think you're cute cuzz you you're light-skinned & got long hair?" What kind of idiotic question is that? But that's just a reflection of the 'making-of-a-slave' mentality that is still being reinforced today. And the parents of these children might not even be the ones reinforcing these ideas. Just look at pop culture...and there you have it. So do you feel that these kids are 'purposefully being ignorant' if that's what they have been conditioned to think?

I don't look down on blacks and don't know any whites (although I don't really know too many white people outside of my family) who do.

Okay, well that's great for your family, and the few other white people you know. But there are millions & millions of other white people that you don't know. And just because they say they don't have a problem with black people, doesn't mean that they actually adhere to that statement. People realize that their words can get them into deep shit, that's probably why you don't hear a lot of white people saying that they look down on black people. Wouldn't you hide that fact if you knew it would avoid potential lawsuits, public humiliation, physical attacks, etc, etc? I know I would. Just look at all the shit Trent Lott was put through when he made a statement that was perceived as racist. And look at all the shit Senator Rick Santorum went through after making a public statement about how he felt about gay people? Nothing nice. Not something too many people would want to deal with if they could just avoid it by keeping their mouths shut & smiling in people's faces.
 
Just some useful passages from the Willie Lynch speech (I'm just trying to enlighten the masses) =):

The Black slaves after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self refueling and self generating for HUNDREDS of years, maybe THOUSANDS. Don't forget you must pitch the OLD black Male vs. the YOUNG black Male, and the YOUNG black Male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE. And the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have you white servants and over- seers distrust all Blacks.
Showing how the differences in blacks were used to divide them so they would be easier to conquer & how the effects of this plan would regenerate themselves to last for hundreds or thousands of years.

Let us make a slave. What do we need? First of all we need a black nigger man, a pregnant nigger woman and her baby nigger boy. Second, we will use the same basic principle that we use in breaking a horse, combined with some more sustaining factors. What we do with horses is that we break them from one form of life to another, that is we reduce them from their natural state in nature. Whereas nature provides them with the natural capacity to take care of their offspring, we break that natural string of independence from them and thereby create a dependency status, so that we may be able to get from them useful production for our business and pleasure.
Showing how one would begin to break down a family unit so that it no longer depends on itself, but looks to 'Massuh' for its every need.

Pay little attention to the generation of original breaking, but CONCENTRATE ON FUTURE GENERATION. Therefore, if you break the FEMALE mother, she will BREAK the offspring in its early years of development and when the offspring is old enough to work, she will deliver it up to you, for her normal female protective tendencies will have been lost in the original breaking process. Train the female horse where by she will eat out of your hand, and she will in turn train the infant horse to eat out of your hand also.
Shows how if you break the female (mother), she will raise her children with that same broken mentality.

When it comes to breaking the uncivilized nigger, use the same process, but vary the degree and step up the pressure, so as to do a complete reversal of the mind. Take the meanest and most restless nigger, strip him of his clothes in front of the remaining male niggers, the female, and the nigger infant, tar and feather him, tie each leg to a different horse faced in opposite directions, set him a fire and beat both horses to pull him apart in front of the remaining nigger. The next step is to take a bull whip and beat the remaining nigger males to the point of death, in front of the female and the infant. Don't kill him, but PUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN HIM, for he can be useful for future breeding.
Shows how one would emasculate (take his manhood) the black man in front of black women, children, & other men. This causes the women & children to no longer look at him as a source of protection & as someone to look up to. This causes to other black men to submit for fear of the same consequences. So basically, they're looking at him like he 'ain't shit.'

These ideals are not something that will merely go away. They were conditioned & must be unconditioned. But they are so deeply rooted that it would be damn near impossible to put a timeline on when the reversal would BEGIN to take place.
 
Mar 18, 2003
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Well these conversations and arguements can go on for ages.

HERSEY: If your going to continually ask irrelevant questions as you do, try asking ones that will help you understand the ideas and points of view of those who you are arguing, rather then stupid questions that you go out of your way to some how make relevant to the topic, just as a means to make yourself 'right' in this thread. Stop trying to break down everyone's posts and give useless information while trying to discredit everything they say with small childish comments.

Tenkamenin: I can see that you are highly educated on alot of what you talk about, but you use it improperly in cases such as this. You guys seem to be under the impression that I think history means nothing, and because you have made yourselves believe that, it seems to be all you can argue. Im not telling you guys history means nothing, im just saying, spare me the lesson because I already know the history. If we have a math arguement, what purpose is it for me to tell you single digit addition problems, you already know them. If you want to make a change, then you need to accept and understand the opinions of others weather you agree with them or not. Think about what your trying to do, then think about what has already been done and to what effect.

Note: HERSEY, don't ask me any more questions. If I wanted to play childish games I too could ask questions neither of you can answer but im for one am not trying to win this arguement, im trying to learn as well as educate.

What has happened in this thread is typical, atleast in my eyes. All that is going on here is one side makes a statement and without even trying to understand what was said, the other side argues it. Why? Because you guys have your beliefs, and they arn't going to change for anything, you will continue to argue even if you are proved 100% wrong. Whats going to happen when black leaders meet face to face with a group of white people trying to help them, with a slightly different point of view. The answer: the same exact thing that is going on here. That is a problem.

Now I have one last question, this is directed at everyone involved in this thread.

I work at a grocery store, and I see hundreds of people every day coming in and im able to get a pretty acurate idea of how they live by the way they dress and form of payment they use as well as their actions and words. I have been out of this city and state numerous times and I have seen something that I must raise a question about. In all of these places I see black men succeeding in life. I see African American's in buisness suits, all dressed nicely, driving nice cars all making it in life. I have to ask, why do you think this is?

Answer: They took the initiative.