RANDOM QUESTION
- Thread starter TAY CAPONE1
- Start date
I THINK SALES DO MATTER AND I ALSO THINK WHO U KNOW MATTERS. NO NAMES JUST CANT GO SOMEWHERE AND SPEND SOME MONEY AND EXPECT 2 BE SUCCESSFUL. ITS EASIER TO SPEND IT WITH THE RIGHT PERSON AND GET SOME RECOGNITION. ITS BETTER 2 PAY 4 SOME GAME AND HAVE A DIRECTION THAN JUST TRY TO DO IT YOURSELF AND END UP FEELIN LIKE A CHICCEN WITH YOUR HEAD CUT OFF. THATS MY OPINION BUT I FEEL LIKE IF ARTISTS TAKE ADVICE FROM PEOPLE WHO TALK DOWN ON THE BIZ THEY ARE DOOMED ANYWAY...ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF LABELS AND RAPPERS MAKE IT ANYWAY...ITS A LEARN AS U GO ALONG EXPERIENCE. AND ITS NEVER BEEN A FREE GAME BEFORE,SO WHATS DIFFERENT NOW?? THAT FREE SHIT IS A HOMEBOY MENTALLITY BASICALLY ON THE LOCAL LEVEL. THE LOVE SHIT IN HIP HOP DIED IN THE 80'S. ITS SIMPLE AS THIS: PROFESSIONALS WORK TOWARDS GOALS AND SHOULD BE SEPERATED FROM HOBBY RAPPERS. JUST CUZ U CAN MAKE GOOD BEATS DOESNT MEAN U ARE A GOOD PRODUCER. U GOTTA KNOW HOW TO SELL YOUR PRODUCT YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE WILL MAKE $$$ OFF OF U. IN THE MUSIC BIZ,ALL THAT SUPPOSED 2 BE SHIT DONT MATTER CUZ IT IS WHAT IT IS.
Let me clear up on what I think is being misunderstood in here. IMO the nucleus of the problem within the game is people charging outrageous prices and superstar attitudes. I'm not saying give me, give me, give me, but I am saying that people need to tone it down.
The reality is, most independent rappers are famous within the regional circle and unheard of to the rest of the world. Yes, there is a small percentage of out of state fan base, but it's a work in progress... not fame. The local fans look up to them like they're on the verge of blowing up & really doing it, but in the end it's simply an ego boost to that rapper. He starts to believe the hype and sets a price on what he thinks he's worth. Nobody outside his circle, small fan base & within his own mind see's it that way.
I personally think as independents we've lost a sense of reality & greed has taken over and too many out to make the fast buck. Artist are racing to make money off verses & downloads, but less than a handful actually have their shit together. They don't own their publishings, their labels are not legit. There is lot's of paperwork to be done. Spend money to make money, spend it on getting your publishings, copyrighting your music first, before anything. Just because you record yourself & burn it on a disc, have a so called video shoot that you upload to youtube yourself, and you know someone who can work photoshop good and make great fliers & album covers doesn't make you a label.
Too many bulls in the game running down the hill and fucking a cow instead of walking down & fucking em' all.
The reality is, most independent rappers are famous within the regional circle and unheard of to the rest of the world. Yes, there is a small percentage of out of state fan base, but it's a work in progress... not fame. The local fans look up to them like they're on the verge of blowing up & really doing it, but in the end it's simply an ego boost to that rapper. He starts to believe the hype and sets a price on what he thinks he's worth. Nobody outside his circle, small fan base & within his own mind see's it that way.
I personally think as independents we've lost a sense of reality & greed has taken over and too many out to make the fast buck. Artist are racing to make money off verses & downloads, but less than a handful actually have their shit together. They don't own their publishings, their labels are not legit. There is lot's of paperwork to be done. Spend money to make money, spend it on getting your publishings, copyrighting your music first, before anything. Just because you record yourself & burn it on a disc, have a so called video shoot that you upload to youtube yourself, and you know someone who can work photoshop good and make great fliers & album covers doesn't make you a label.
Too many bulls in the game running down the hill and fucking a cow instead of walking down & fucking em' all.
ON A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL IF U HAVE AN INVESTOR OR A BUDGET YOUR BEST BET IS SPEND MONEY WISELY AND MAKE POWER MOVES.
@GEMINI-WHAT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS PRICE TO YOU?? IM CURIOUS CUZ U KEEP EMPHASIZING THAT. IVE PAID PEOPLE 4 FEATURES BUT IT WAS A BUSINESS MOVE. IT FELL INTO THE BUDGET. I FEEL LIKE MOST INDEPENDENTS WANNA HOP IN THE GAME AND GET FAVORS AND FREE SHIT AND THATS WHY IT IS LIKE IT IS. EVERYONE THINKS THEY HAVE A LABEL. EVERYBODY CAN BE ON YOUTUBE. THATS A GOOD THING. BUT PEOPLE WITH CATALOG SHOULD CHARGE THE NEW UP AND COMERS IF U ASK ME. WHEN I WAS YOUNG THE OG'S KNEW HOW 2 COOK DOPE AND THE YOUNGSTAS DIDNT. THEY SOLD US DOUBLE UPS AND STILL PROFITED. I KNOW THATS BLOCC SHIT BUT THE RAPGAME IS NOT 2 MUCH DIFFERENT.IF U KEEP YOUR EXPECTATIONS LOW YOUR FEELINGS WONT GET HURT. THATS HOW I VIEW IT.
@GEMINI-WHAT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS PRICE TO YOU?? IM CURIOUS CUZ U KEEP EMPHASIZING THAT. IVE PAID PEOPLE 4 FEATURES BUT IT WAS A BUSINESS MOVE. IT FELL INTO THE BUDGET. I FEEL LIKE MOST INDEPENDENTS WANNA HOP IN THE GAME AND GET FAVORS AND FREE SHIT AND THATS WHY IT IS LIKE IT IS. EVERYONE THINKS THEY HAVE A LABEL. EVERYBODY CAN BE ON YOUTUBE. THATS A GOOD THING. BUT PEOPLE WITH CATALOG SHOULD CHARGE THE NEW UP AND COMERS IF U ASK ME. WHEN I WAS YOUNG THE OG'S KNEW HOW 2 COOK DOPE AND THE YOUNGSTAS DIDNT. THEY SOLD US DOUBLE UPS AND STILL PROFITED. I KNOW THATS BLOCC SHIT BUT THE RAPGAME IS NOT 2 MUCH DIFFERENT.IF U KEEP YOUR EXPECTATIONS LOW YOUR FEELINGS WONT GET HURT. THATS HOW I VIEW IT.
for every 1 artist that receives acclaim and interest in their region, there's 499 artists that can't even sell a CD to their immediate family. it is an accomplishment to garner momentum regionally, because that's more than most will ever do.
if you think about it like that (realistically), rapping is a waste of time for 99.9% of everyone that tries to do it. imho it's not an artist or producer who has accomplished something's responsibility to be accessible to an artist that hasn't done shit. it's the unknown artist's responsibility to prove himself before even asking.
keep in mind, a marginally accomplished artist has more shit to worry about than just money. a smart artist will guard the brand their building by not collaborating with any no-name who will just dilute their brand and make people think "wtf is this guy doing rapping with this dude."
if you think about it like that (realistically), rapping is a waste of time for 99.9% of everyone that tries to do it. imho it's not an artist or producer who has accomplished something's responsibility to be accessible to an artist that hasn't done shit. it's the unknown artist's responsibility to prove himself before even asking.
keep in mind, a marginally accomplished artist has more shit to worry about than just money. a smart artist will guard the brand their building by not collaborating with any no-name who will just dilute their brand and make people think "wtf is this guy doing rapping with this dude."
Time is money and can't anybody tell someone what their time is worth. Nor can anyone put a value on a persons verse. If person feels their worth is $10,000 a verse then that's on them. And if somebody pays them then they are worth it. Music is still art and if a painter says a painting is worth $16,789.76 then who am I to say it isn't?
CONNECTIONS WILL ALWAYS COUNT WHEN ITS REAL BUSINESS. I STILL SELL A FEW CD'S..INDEPENDENTLY. STILL DO ABOUT A SHOW A MONTH AT LEAST,INDEPENDENTLY. STILL GET VERSE LICCS ON TWITTER FROM PLACES I HAVENT EVEN HEARD OF, AND HAVE ALL MY DIGITAL ACCOUNTS SECURED.
IF YOURE NOT SELLING UNITS...PUBLISHING DOESNT EXIST. UP AND COMERS HAVE 2 BUILD AND US WITH KNOWLEDGE SHOULD TEACH BUT KEEP YOUR ANGLES DEMOCRATIC. IT TAKES MONEY 2 MAKE MONEY. IVE BEEN IN THIS GAME AND SEEN A LOT OF MONEY EXCHANGE HANDS. THE KIND OF MONEY PEOPLE DREAM ABOUT MAKING AS RAPPERS BUT NEVER SEE CUZ THEY NEVER GO CREATE AVENUES THEY JUST SIT IN STUDIOS AND MAKE MUSIC.
IF YOURE NOT SELLING UNITS...PUBLISHING DOESNT EXIST. UP AND COMERS HAVE 2 BUILD AND US WITH KNOWLEDGE SHOULD TEACH BUT KEEP YOUR ANGLES DEMOCRATIC. IT TAKES MONEY 2 MAKE MONEY. IVE BEEN IN THIS GAME AND SEEN A LOT OF MONEY EXCHANGE HANDS. THE KIND OF MONEY PEOPLE DREAM ABOUT MAKING AS RAPPERS BUT NEVER SEE CUZ THEY NEVER GO CREATE AVENUES THEY JUST SIT IN STUDIOS AND MAKE MUSIC.
Maybe some of you guy's are right. I should start charging too. Sounds like there's still people out there willing to pay. Sounds like a good idea.
Good music sells no lie. Little monthly installments that I keep getting like this one that I got this past Sat. It's not much, but a little extra for my kids X-Mas gifts.
Good music sells no lie. Little monthly installments that I keep getting like this one that I got this past Sat. It's not much, but a little extra for my kids X-Mas gifts.
LIKE I SAID LOOK AT BERNER NOW....HE CAN GO 2 KC AND OHIO AND ALL THE MARKETS WHERE BAY MUSIC STILL SELLS AND MAKE THE MONEY BACC HE SPENT ON FEATURES BY FEATURING ON OTHER PEOPLES ALBUMS. BE GOOD 2 THE GAME AND THE GAME WILL BE GOOD 2 U. HAVIN A CATALOG IS IMPORTANT THO.ESPECIALLY WHEN U GO 2 OTHER REGIONS WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR MUSIC BUT MAY HAVE JUST HEARD YOUR NAME. IF U DONT HAVE AN ALBUM OUT AND JUST HAVE TALENT...I CANT SEE HOW U COULD EXPECT 2 GET PAID 4 A FEATURE. THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE 2 ME. PAY WHO U RESPECT AND YOU'LL PROBABLY WIN OR AT LEAST BREAK EVEN IF U DO YOUR PART.
any other job you would get paid for. its a "job" to very few. a hobby to many.
like Tay said, professionals get paid. and theres barely any professional rappers. dudes need to realize that. its like its hard to understand that it aint here anymore.
why you think there aint mom and pop record stores poppin up everywhere anymore. cus those entrepreneurs know whats really goin on. rapper entrepreneurs dont wanna believe it.
like Tay said, professionals get paid. and theres barely any professional rappers. dudes need to realize that. its like its hard to understand that it aint here anymore.
why you think there aint mom and pop record stores poppin up everywhere anymore. cus those entrepreneurs know whats really goin on. rapper entrepreneurs dont wanna believe it.
IM STILL CURIOUS ABOUT HOW MUCH PPL THINK IS AN OUTRAGEOUS PRICE 4 A FEATURE.I CAN USUALLY TELL WHETHER SOMEONE IS PROFESSIONAL OR NOT BY WHAT THEY OFFER. I'VE WHUPPED ON A NIGGA 4 OFFERING ME $200 4 A VERSE. I WAS OFFENDED...IM A HUMBLE PERSON BUT THIS IS A BUSINESS AND SOMEBODY OFFERING ME ANYTHING UNDER $1000 PROBABLY MEANS HE'S WORKING ON AN UNPROFESSIONAL LOCAL PROJECT AND IS LOOKIN 4 HELP OR SOME KINDA HANDOUT. 50,000 A VERSE IS OUTRAGEOUS BUT THE AVERAGE RAPPER CANT ASK 4 THAT. IT IS A BARTER AND TRADE BUSINESS BUT SOMETIMES I DONT EVEN WANT 2 WORK WITH RAPPERS THAT ARE TIGHT BECUZ IT DOESNT HELP WHOEVER IS FEATURING BUT CAN HELP THE NEW ARTIST. THE CHUMPCHANGE IS COMPENSATION 4 AN ARTISTS' TIME AND MAYBE A FEW POINTERS. IT TAKES MONEY 2 MAKE MONEY...BUT IT TAKES THE RIGHT CIRCLE AND DIRECTION 2 BE SUCCESSFUL. I THINK THAT POINT IS MISSING IN THE RAPGAME.
i dont think 200 for a feature is unreasonable. 1000 is kinda steep. i think anything over $500 is not very feasible. lets look at it from a budget perspective using thizz's formuls (30%, 30%, 40%. lets say an independent artist is making a 15 track album that has paid features on 6 of the tracks. lets say the artist spends about 200 per track (not including the cost of features). this would look something like this
recording: $9000 (tracks - $200x15=$3000) + (features - $1000x6=$6000)
manufacturing and packaging: $9000
promo: $12000
so thats a total budget of $30,000 which breaks down to 10,000 cds @ $3/cd.
Compared to ($200 per feature):
recording: $4200 (tracks - $200x15=$3000) + (features - $200x6=$1200)
manufacturing and packaging: $4200
promo: $5600
this is a total budget of $14000 which breaks down to 4,667 cds @ $3/cd.
you see how charging $1000 a verse more than doubles an artists budget and requires them to sell twice as many cds before turning a profit. plus............. 10,000 units and 30k sounds like a lot for an independent artist/ label.
so i guess the bottom line is how can a feature charge somebody so much for a verse that the artist would have to sell more units than the artist they are paying for the verse just to make their money back?
i know $200 doesnt sound like much but if you look @ the bigger picture and are charging people to a point that they cant even have a chance to make some money back then you setting them up for failure, youre winning theyre losing.
ps i dont know how many units anyone on here is moving per release but im assuming most rappers arent moving 10,000 units. so no offense to anyone selling more than that per release.
recording: $9000 (tracks - $200x15=$3000) + (features - $1000x6=$6000)
manufacturing and packaging: $9000
promo: $12000
so thats a total budget of $30,000 which breaks down to 10,000 cds @ $3/cd.
Compared to ($200 per feature):
recording: $4200 (tracks - $200x15=$3000) + (features - $200x6=$1200)
manufacturing and packaging: $4200
promo: $5600
this is a total budget of $14000 which breaks down to 4,667 cds @ $3/cd.
you see how charging $1000 a verse more than doubles an artists budget and requires them to sell twice as many cds before turning a profit. plus............. 10,000 units and 30k sounds like a lot for an independent artist/ label.
so i guess the bottom line is how can a feature charge somebody so much for a verse that the artist would have to sell more units than the artist they are paying for the verse just to make their money back?
i know $200 doesnt sound like much but if you look @ the bigger picture and are charging people to a point that they cant even have a chance to make some money back then you setting them up for failure, youre winning theyre losing.
ps i dont know how many units anyone on here is moving per release but im assuming most rappers arent moving 10,000 units. so no offense to anyone selling more than that per release.
If you don't expect to sell enough to make back the money you spend on features, you have no business getting features. At the end of the day regardless of who your album says its featuring on the front, your sales forecasts are based off the momentum you bring to the table.
How is it the responsibility of the artist that you want to feature to make it affordable for you, or help you make sure you'll be able to recoup?
How is it the responsibility of the artist that you want to feature to make it affordable for you, or help you make sure you'll be able to recoup?