Who is pound for pound #1?

TrEmEnDo InDo · May 7, 2010

Manny is exciting, Manny is a warrior, Manny is this, Manny is that, ( No diss to anyone I say these things myself) BUT he will lose to Floyd Mayweather Jr. if they fight.

I think when they were 2 or 3 weight classes apart it could be a coin toss, but now that they've both arrived at the top of the same pile and the possibility of a showdown is imminent, as a Pac-fan you have to tuck your tail and admit that Manny does not match-up well to a pin-point counter puncher like FMJ.

MOREBASS · May 8, 2010

MR. CLEEN said:

Mayweather would have beaten the guy's on Manny's resume, I don't disagree here...BUT...you are totally forgetting the fact that Mayweather is a welterweight, and has been a for at least 4 years?

Of course he would blast those guys!

Manny was fighting at 126-130lbs! And the shoulda, woulda, coulda stuff does not change the fact that Manny has been beating MUCH better opposition than Floyd recently, and AGAIN, I'd like to point out...Manny has been moving up in weight, and fighting at a weight class or maybe 2 above what his physique is built for!

Again, Cleen the only OBJECTIVE information we have is who they have fought, and beat.

CLEARLY, IMO, Manny Pacquiao has beaten better opposition, not to mention the fact that he's done so against guys who were considered too big, strong, and good for the guy.

Its the equivalent of Floyd moving up to 154 & 160 and beating the best guys. My whole thing is, Floyd likely has the skills & talent to do this and be competitive at those weights, but refuses to test himself.

2-0-Sixx · May 8, 2010

MR. CLEEN said:

I like how you say marquez beat pacquiao and ignore mayweather vs Castillo.

Mayweather was #1 pound 4 pound before he retired, yes thanks to Hopkins losing to Taylor. If hopkins never lost those 2 fights he would have been #1, that's fact.

But that doesn't take anything away from floyd because that's how Pound 4 Pound works. You keep that spot until someone beats you or you lose (and the next guy goes up). When floyd retired, he lost that spot, pac moves up and then went on a terror through GREAT opponents. Floyd can't just come back, have a fight against a lightweight and then shane and be #1, cuz if you do that you ignore what pac accomplished while he was gone and that's not fair.

If floyd never retired, maybe if he took a 1 year vacation and fought cotto or margarito, we wouldn't even have this discussion.

MR. CLEEN · May 8, 2010

@Morebass, you clearly are looking past the fact that Mayweather also came up through the ranks starting at Junior Lightweight and is not a true Welterweight himself. He destroyed plenty of competition on his ascent to the top. And that's your opinion that the opposition was better. Aside from A shot Cotto and a handicap fight against DLH, name one fighter on the level of opposition Mayweather has beaten? Clottey is the only legitimate Welterweight fight Pacquiao has fought. His win against Mosely doesn't prove anything to me. The reason being is he really didn't have to beat Mosely to prove his worth, but I'm glad he did to shut up all the naysayers. But the way he did it, should show you that Pac Man has no shot at a win whatsoever.

@ 2-0-Sixx... Thanks for again proving Mayweathers dominance. In comparison to the JMM/Pacqiuoa where Pacquiao earned a controversial draw and then turned around and earned a controversial Decision against the same fighter, Mayweather gets a close debatable decision (due to a hand injury), and in the rematch blows castillo away by UD, proving that Castillo really was no match the first time. Bottom line, unless you lose your P4P, in the minds of the people, you are still the P4P. Like you said, Hopkins lost two close and debateable fights, but in the end he lost them. Mayweather has done nothing but win, and in great fashion since he came back from retirement. If this isn't the case, there wouldn't be talk of a coin flip to seperate the two in Ring Magazine. I smell a lil bias and politics. So if they won't give Mayweather his proper due, then he is the new peoples champ, removing Pac Man from that pedestal with dominant wins against JMM and Mosely, and next Pacquiao when he decides to take that blood test, which we know he won't do. He don't want it.

MOREBASS · May 10, 2010

Mayweather not a true welterweight? LMFAO.

He doesn't allow himself to be weighed on fight night anymore. Do you ever wonder why?

He is absolutely 100% a real legit welterweight now. His inability to make his CONTRACTED weight of 145 in the Marquez fight was proof of this.

Again, I'm going to ask you: Honestly, do you really feel that out of the opponents listed, that Mayweather has beat better opposition...?

LOL @ handicap fight against DLH. Hilarious. What did you think, Pacquiao was going to go from 130 to 154? C'mon bro, you're reaching with that one. Oscar was the heavy favorite, DESPITE the fact that we knew he was coming down to 147. Funny how everyone's tune changed after he got his ass kicked.

Besides, the same question you ask about Pacquiao: Who has Pacquiao beaten that is on the level of Mayweather.

No one.

But Floyd hasn't faced anyone nearly as good as Pacquiao either.

Goes both ways.

As far as Mayweather-Marquez. I hope you're not putting anything into that bullshit fight. Marquez was fighting as a welterweight...he had no business fighting as a welterweight, and wouldn't even crack the top 30 at that weight.

MR. CLEEN · May 10, 2010

If Marquez had beat Mayweather or at least made it a fight you wouldn't be saying the same things you are saying. And no, Mayweather is not a true Welterweight. He didn't start off there, but of course as you get older and your body matures, and it will carry more weight. That's a given, but his career didn't start off at Welterweight. That's my point. So just like Pacquiao, Mayweather is a fighter who had to climb his way to Welterweight, and his way there is just as impressive if not more. All you have to hang your hat on is the handicap match between a dehydrated and spent DLH.

2-0-Sixx · May 10, 2010

^^LMAO man. Mayweather is a true welterweight, he's been a welterweight for 5 years and if you haven't noticed he is bigger than ever.

That's like saying Oscar wasn't a true Jr. Middleweight just because he started his career at 135. As you said as you get older, your body grows.

Floyd wasn't a true welterweight 10 years ago, but he most certainly is now.

His fight with Marquez was a farce and shouldn't even be discussed. Marquez struggled to even move up to 135 pounds and fights floyd at 145?? And Floyd couldn't even lose 2 pounds and paid Marquez $600,000 as a result.

MOREBASS · May 10, 2010

How about the fact that he anhialated Ricky Hatton, at Ricky Hatton's actual best weight, and not 147 pounds, where he had already proven he did not belong?!

I don't care about the outcome of the Mayweather-Marquez fight.

I said the fight was bullshit in the beginning, when the fight was made! Nobody asked to see that weak ass fight, especially not with Marquez moving up two weight classes when he had already shown that he was at his peak physically at 135!

What I mean by Pacquiao not being a true welterweight is this: Pacquiao has to eat 7,000 to MAINTAIN the weight, otherwise he starts dropping sub 140lbs! He eats twice before weigh ins and still only reaches about 142-145lbs!

Pacquiao is fighting guys who are much bigger and stronger than him. Like I said, its the equivalent of Mayweather moving up to 154 to take on the top dogs there.

2-0-Sixx · May 10, 2010

Honestly pacquiao should be fighting at 140 but the big names are at 147 that's the only reason he is there in the first place.

MR. CLEEN · May 10, 2010

@ Morebass... You talkin about that same Hatton that Mayweather broke down and TKO'd? Had Pac Man did it first and erased Hatton's win streak then that would have been even more impressive, but I think Mayweather got there first and exposed Hatton.

@ 2-0-Sixx... I think we've already established that Mayweather is a solid Welterweight. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we did. My point still stands. He didn't start there and the fact that he has done so well going up in weight and not losing much speed, accuracy and reflex has to be commended and credited to his staying in tip top shape year round. As you know, most fighters lose something as they go up, and he has not lost anything but maybe what is expected of him as he ages.

Tony · May 10, 2010

Pacman is going to get served by Floyd period.... those who have him ranked pound for pound number 1 will see once/if they fight jumps off. According to Morebass, Pacman is beating all of the top Welterweights not named Shane and Floyd. So he gets all the credit in the world for beating "much" more impressive fighters than Floyd has. Floyd on the other hand has credit taken away since he didn't fight Cotto or Clottey!!! If Floyd would have fought Cotto and Clottey and beat them, Morebass wouldn't be impressed. But since Pacman beat them, they're top Welterweights.

Tony · May 10, 2010

MR. CLEEN said:

Hatton was done after Mayweather knocked him out and exposed him.

Pacman is beating up on fighters that have already been beaten up on.... I don't see what's so impressive about that!

Cotto had already been beaten up
Clottey was beaten up
Hatton was beaten up

2-0-Sixx · May 10, 2010

Tony said:

Hatton had one of his best career performances after Floyd, so no, he wasn't done.

LMAO! Really? You can say that and honestly say you're not hatin?

We can do that about anyone. Let's take your favorite, Holyfield.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi was beaten up by Michael Spinks.

James Buster Douglas was beaten up 5 times already.

Bert Cooper was beaten up 7 times already and DROPPED holyfield.

Larry Holmes was beaten up 3 times already and was old.

Ray Mercer was beaten up.

Mike Tyson was beatin up.

John Ruiz was beaten up.

Hasim Rahman was beaten up.

Wow tony, using your logic your favorite fighter beat a bunch of guys who were already BEATEN UP.

Lets see if it applies to Floyd:

Shane Mosley was beaten up by Cotto, Forrest and Winky not to mention was old as fuck and past his prime.

Marquez was a lightweight and was beaten up by Pacquiao, Chris John and Freddie Norwood.

Ricky Hatton was not a welterweight and was above his natural weight class.

Oscar De La Hoya was KTFO by Bernard Hopkins and was ruined by him, didn't fight for 2 years. Not to mention was never the same after mosley beat him up.

Carlos fucking Baldomir was beatin up 9 fucking times and 6 draws.

Zab Judah was coming off a loss to Carlos fucking Baldomir, not too mention got KTFO by Kostya Tszyu.

Sharmba Mitchell. LOL.

Arturo Gatti was beatin up every time he fought. Had just got out of 3 wars against Micky Ward. Was shot. 6 losses already.

Henry Bruseles. LOL

DeMarcus Corley LOL. Was coming off a LOSS to Zab Judah.

Phillip N'dou. LOL. Was beaten up.

Jose Luis Castillo was beaten up 4 times and still managed to beat Floyd the first encounter.

See how your logic works tony? We can go on and on. Any resume can be dissected and nit-picked apart. Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler, SRL, Duran, Tommy Hearns. Haters gonna hate.

MR. CLEEN · May 10, 2010

2-0-Sixx... Your point would be valid if the fighters we're alluding to had solid careers after their losses. At least after Mosely lost to Forrest and Winky, he still went on to have big fights win or loss. What has Cotto or Hatton done since they got knocked the fuck out, and if you mention that Cotto Jennings fight, then you are a fraud my friend. Hatton beat Malinaggi, but what has he done since? I can name countless amounts of fights Mosely had since losing to Winky and Vernon. So your point is pointless. Cotto was beaten like a rag daoll, and he shows the extreme wear and tear. Same thing with Hatton because of how he carries himself in between fights. It seems like you gotta go to extremes to make your points. Talk about reachin lol...

2-0-Sixx · May 10, 2010

MR. CLEEN said:

It's been like a year bro.

Uhh, Cotto hasn't even fought yet. We'll see how he looks against the much bigger Yuri Foreman in a few weeks.

That was one of his best career wins, he won in dominating fashion and is the only man to have ever stopped Paulie. He certainly wasn't a ruined fighter now was he?

Retired? Certainly a good option after such a brutal KO.

What did Oscar do after losing to Bernard Hopkins? Shit. Yet Floyd's win over Oscar is an accomplishment? Why is it Floyd gets credit for beating a "ruined" Oscar, yet Pac doesn't get any credit for Cotto, Hatton or Oscar? Double standards. What did Zab Judah do after losing to Tszu or Balidor? Shit.

MR. CLEEN · May 10, 2010

Hold on, so you sayin that the fight with Paulie (Edward Featherhands)Malinaggi counts? Are you serious. Dude couldn't damage a boxing bag with toilet tissue in it let alone a boxer, but you can have that. And you think Oscar was ruined by a hopkins body punch? like career over? You kidding right? Didn't he go on to win a few fights such the beating he gave Mayorga and the win over Steve Forbes after Hopkins and not only that, didn't do better than just survive in the fight with Mayweather? he earned a split decision in that fight. Since you claim Hatton had a his best fight against Mayweather, then what was Zab doin before he got broke down? he gave Mayweather more problems than Hatton. All Hatton gets credit for is "trying" to rough up Mayweather with his tactics which didn't work. So add Zab to that list of that what happened to his career "after" Mayweather

Oh yeah, I was talkin about Cotto after Magarito. And once he fights Yuri Foreman and loses then you can add another losss to the record of a shot fighter

2-0-Sixx · May 10, 2010

MR. CLEEN said:

Oh, so Paulie isn't and wasn't a top 140 pound fighter? He didn't go 12 rounds against Cotto and give him a good fight? So you need power to win fights huh? Sweet science all of a sudden means nothing? Give me a break, hatton whopped paulie, who I hate with a passion but I can at least admit paulie is a good boxer and he's a good name on anyone's resume and what hatton did to him, dominate the entire fight, was impressive.

So again, no, ricky hatton was not ruined by floyd.

He didn't fight for over 2 years as result and retired. He came back and beat a tailor made Mayorga which set up the floyd fight.

But you fell into my trap. Never once did I say Oscar was done, I was using your and Tony's faulty ass logic. Thanks for proving my point.

MR. CLEEN · May 10, 2010

Checkmate??? LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dude you kill me. I like you, you don't even know when you lost. LOL You'll keep goin and goin and goin and even put up pretty pictures for the effect. Talk about a set up fight. I agree, Malinaggi gave Cotto a helluva fight. I think if anything your playing your self by even going back and forth, when the moral of the story was who was the P4P. You and many will argue til your blue in the face that Pacquiao is the true P4P, and add because Ring magazine said it, it's factual. But nah bruh, it don't work that way. You gotta beat the best to be the best. You've already showed your bias by stating that even though you feel Pacquiao is the best, in your heart you believe he'll lose a match up with Floyd, now that's a false positive if i aint never seen one, and the moment you made that statement, you lost your credibility. Stop the nonsense. Your basis is that in the 20 months that Mayweather was retired, Manny fought all these unbelieveable fights that changed anything in the eyes of true boxing fans. I dig Manny, but keep it real with yourself before awarding yourself a checkmate you haven't earned fam. I would look up a pic to match my point, but your better at that than me, so i'll just stick to the script and the real facts that should appropriately have Floyd at P4P#1 and Manny at 2 at best.

2-0-Sixx · May 10, 2010

^^See this is exactly why I said checkmate; you have no response for proving my point 100% correct. Further, you're just repeating the same shit we done already discussed pages ago bro, you're going in circles and you have no direction (not to mention no paragraphs).

Unless something new is brought to this topic I'm done here.

Lamberto Quintero · May 10, 2010

El Canelo is the P4P best, he'll knock PBF and Pac out no doubt. JMM is #2 and Margarito is #3. Mexico for the win!

Who is pound for pound #1?

Who is #1?

Manny Pacquiao

Floyd Mayweather

Tied or other

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