Oil Spill [Pictures]
- Thread starter 2-0-Sixx
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with the quality of your posts i've seen in this thread and others, I would have thought you wouldnt believe in those silly names of occupations? & for me to go for what?, to subscribe me to some capsuls based upon their limited, saturated sources of "information" to sum me up & label me under another make believe category? just because you & the majority of others might not see where I'm coming from (talking about) doesnt mean I'm no different than you are. We all see how far we wanna see, how far do you claim to see? from that mediocre response of a siccness member, it doesnt look far.
See, I am sick and tired of wacky conspiracy theories that pop up every time something bad happens and that involve some nefarious deal between the big bad government and the big bad greedy corporations, usually without any of evidence to support them and often running contrary to any logic. This does not mean that all conspiracy theories are false and should be dismissed or that the government is not involved in any shady business, but unless conspiracy theories are founded on reason and evidence they should be considered false and not taken serious until a reason to think otherwise appears.
It is an extremely bad way of thinking, and only puts everyone in a state of collective paranoia (thus my suggestion above) that does not help anyone do anything about the real problems we're facing; it does exactly the opposite.
To begin with, in general "the government" is not some sort of secret organization separate from the rest of society that rules over it, which is how most people look at it. The truth is that "the government" is the people because it is made of the same kind of people that spend most of their time complaining about it. And the same is true for corporations. The reason people who are not on high governmental or corporate positions complain about what people in such positions do is that they themselves are not in that position; if they were, they would be doing exactly the same things. Which, again, doesn't mean that the things governments and corporations are doing are right, but if the main reason you are complaining about those things is not that they are wrong, but that someone else's relative inclusive fitness seems higher than yours, then you don't really have the right to complain.
The reason general mistrust of government is dangerous, and don't get me wrong here, I do not say that people should not question what governmental officials are telling them, what I am targeting here is the indiscriminate rejection of government that is so widespread (and growing) these days, is that as I have spent a lot of time explaining here, what lies in front of us in the not so distant future is a combination of resource depletion and general collapse of the planet's life support systems, that while unprecedented in scale, has plenty of historical analogues. And we know from the fate of those civilizations that overshot and collapsed that the immediate cause of their collapse was internal rioting due to worsening conditions. We are in an even worse situation because we have a public that does not understand the situation and has a deep mistrust towards any top down solutions of the kind that will needed to do something about it
It is an extremely bad way of thinking, and only puts everyone in a state of collective paranoia (thus my suggestion above) that does not help anyone do anything about the real problems we're facing; it does exactly the opposite.
To begin with, in general "the government" is not some sort of secret organization separate from the rest of society that rules over it, which is how most people look at it. The truth is that "the government" is the people because it is made of the same kind of people that spend most of their time complaining about it. And the same is true for corporations. The reason people who are not on high governmental or corporate positions complain about what people in such positions do is that they themselves are not in that position; if they were, they would be doing exactly the same things. Which, again, doesn't mean that the things governments and corporations are doing are right, but if the main reason you are complaining about those things is not that they are wrong, but that someone else's relative inclusive fitness seems higher than yours, then you don't really have the right to complain.
The reason general mistrust of government is dangerous, and don't get me wrong here, I do not say that people should not question what governmental officials are telling them, what I am targeting here is the indiscriminate rejection of government that is so widespread (and growing) these days, is that as I have spent a lot of time explaining here, what lies in front of us in the not so distant future is a combination of resource depletion and general collapse of the planet's life support systems, that while unprecedented in scale, has plenty of historical analogues. And we know from the fate of those civilizations that overshot and collapsed that the immediate cause of their collapse was internal rioting due to worsening conditions. We are in an even worse situation because we have a public that does not understand the situation and has a deep mistrust towards any top down solutions of the kind that will needed to do something about it
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/05/gulf-oil-spill-cap-placed_n_601691.html
Gulf Oil Spill: Cap Placed Over Leak Collecting Only Fraction of The Oil
ON BARATARIA BAY, La. — The wildlife apocalypse along the Gulf Coast that everyone has feared for weeks is fast becoming a terrible reality.
Pelicans struggle to free themselves from oil, thick as tar, that gathers in hip-deep pools, while others stretch out useless wings, feathers dripping with crude. Dead birds and dolphins wash ashore, coated in the sludge. Seashells that once glinted pearly white under the hot June sun are stained crimson.
Scenes like this played out along miles of shoreline Saturday, nearly seven weeks after a BP rig exploded and the wellhead a mile below the surface began belching millions of gallon of oil.
"These waters are my backyard, my life," said boat captain Dave Marino, a firefighter and fishing guide from Myrtle Grove. "I don't want to say heartbreaking, because that's been said. It's a nightmare. It looks like it's going to be wave after wave of it and nobody can stop it."
The oil has steadily spread east, washing up in greater quantities in recent days, even as a cap placed by BP over the blownout well began to collect some of the escaping crude. The cap, resembling an upside-down funnel, has captured about 252,000 gallons of oil, according to Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, the government's point man for the crisis.
If earlier estimates are correct, that means the cap is capturing from a quarter to as much as half the oil spewing from the blowout each day. But that is a small fraction of the roughly 22 million to 48 million gallons government officials estimate have leaked into the Gulf since the April 20 explosion that killed 11 workers, making it the nation's largest oil spill ever.
Allen, who said the goal is to gradually raise the amount of the oil being captured, compared the process to stopping the flow of water from a garden hose with a finger: "You don't want to put your finger down too quickly, or let it off too quickly."
BP officials are trying to capture as much oil as possible without creating too much pressure or allowing the buildup of ice-like hydrates, which form when water and natural gas combine under high pressures and low temperatures.
President Barack Obama pledged Saturday in his weekly radio and Internet address to fight the spill with the people of the Gulf Coast. His words for oil giant BP PLC were stern: "We will make sure they pay every single dime owed to the people along the Gulf coast."
Gulf Oil Spill: Cap Placed Over Leak Collecting Only Fraction of The Oil
ON BARATARIA BAY, La. — The wildlife apocalypse along the Gulf Coast that everyone has feared for weeks is fast becoming a terrible reality.
Pelicans struggle to free themselves from oil, thick as tar, that gathers in hip-deep pools, while others stretch out useless wings, feathers dripping with crude. Dead birds and dolphins wash ashore, coated in the sludge. Seashells that once glinted pearly white under the hot June sun are stained crimson.
Scenes like this played out along miles of shoreline Saturday, nearly seven weeks after a BP rig exploded and the wellhead a mile below the surface began belching millions of gallon of oil.
"These waters are my backyard, my life," said boat captain Dave Marino, a firefighter and fishing guide from Myrtle Grove. "I don't want to say heartbreaking, because that's been said. It's a nightmare. It looks like it's going to be wave after wave of it and nobody can stop it."
The oil has steadily spread east, washing up in greater quantities in recent days, even as a cap placed by BP over the blownout well began to collect some of the escaping crude. The cap, resembling an upside-down funnel, has captured about 252,000 gallons of oil, according to Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, the government's point man for the crisis.
If earlier estimates are correct, that means the cap is capturing from a quarter to as much as half the oil spewing from the blowout each day. But that is a small fraction of the roughly 22 million to 48 million gallons government officials estimate have leaked into the Gulf since the April 20 explosion that killed 11 workers, making it the nation's largest oil spill ever.
Allen, who said the goal is to gradually raise the amount of the oil being captured, compared the process to stopping the flow of water from a garden hose with a finger: "You don't want to put your finger down too quickly, or let it off too quickly."
BP officials are trying to capture as much oil as possible without creating too much pressure or allowing the buildup of ice-like hydrates, which form when water and natural gas combine under high pressures and low temperatures.
President Barack Obama pledged Saturday in his weekly radio and Internet address to fight the spill with the people of the Gulf Coast. His words for oil giant BP PLC were stern: "We will make sure they pay every single dime owed to the people along the Gulf coast."
I didn't say that you specifically want that, I said that most people want that. And they actually don't want those things specifically, they want the high status that comes with them, because status is what determines your inclusive fitness in our species, i.e. in simple terms, if you are on top of the social ladder, you have more option of getting laid...
Democracy is a vacuous concept, I avoid mentioning it
Democracy is a vacuous concept, I avoid mentioning it
non-sense would be your thinking that the politicians are the people. I live in California and am hard pressed to find someone that thinks the "government" is doing a good job.
inbred politicians are greedy and to think otherwise is non-sense. Just because people don't believe their lies does not mean they are wearing a tin foil hat.
Scientists challenge BP containment claims
Cast doubt on statement that device could capture 'vast majority' of oil
msnbc.com
updated 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
Some scientists are taking issue with BP's statement that a containment cap placed over a gushing well could be capturing "the vast majority" of oil spewing into the Gulf of Mexico.
They suggest it's misleading, if not irresponsible, to make such a statement when the company has acknowledged it doesn't know how much oil is flowing from the busted well, or how much the spill rate has increased since engineers cut a riser pipe so it could properly fit the containment cap.
"I don’t see that as being a credible claim," said Steve Wereley, associate professor of mechanical engineering at Purdue University and a member of the Flow Rate Technical Group, a national panel of scientists and engineers tasked with determining the spill size.
"What I would say to BP is, show the American public the before and after shots of the evidence on which they’re basing that claim," Werely told msnbc.com on Tuesday.
"I do not know how BP can make that assertion when they don’t know how much oil is escaping. I would say that statement is their hope and aspiration," added Ira Leifer, a researcher in the Marine Science Institute at the University of California Santa Barbara who is also a member of the flow-rate panel.
On Sunday, BP Chief Executive Tony Hayward told the BBC that he believed the cap was likely to capture "the majority, probably the vast majority" of the oil gushing from the well.
Asked in the interview if he was being overoptimistic, Hayward responded: "I think there's no doubt that it has been difficult to predict because all of this is a first. Every piece of this implementation is the first time it's been done in 5,000 feet of water, a mile beneath the sea surface."
On Tuesday, BP said the containment device captured 14,800 barrels of oil the previous day, the highest capture rate yet since the system was installed last week. The company said Hayward's statement was totally consistent with the official spill estimates to date.
"We've always said it was an estimate and there's uncertainty attached to that whatever estimate you choose to go with," said John Pack, a BP spokesman in Houston. "But it wouldn't change the nature of our response, which is to firstly stop what's going on in the subs, to contain the oil and collect it, and protect the shoreline and clean it up."
The official government estimate of the flow rate is 12,000 to 19,000 barrels a day, which means the new device should be capturing the bulk of the oil. But some scientists have said those flow numbers could represent just the lower range and that the rate could be multiple times higher.
Worst-case scenario?
Leifer said based on the data he's seen so far, the rate of flow from the broken well has increase since the initial April 20 explosion at the Deepwater Horizon rig, which killed 11 workers. He believes BP's decision last week to sever the well's damaged riser pipe in order to install the containment cap has increased the flow by far more than the 20 percent BP and government officials had predicted.
In fact, Leifer says, the well may be spewing what BP had called before the spill its worst-case scenario — as much as 100,000 barrels a day from a freely flowing pipe.
He said he's seen no evidence from BP to date that would be inconsistent from that dire scenario.
Judging by live undersea videos, "it looks like a freely flowing pipe," Leifer said. "From what it looks like right now it suggests to me they’re capturing a negligible fraction."
It's unclear how much oil is still escaping because scientists don't have access to enough data and the video feeds show a "disorganized cloud" of oil shooting out of open vents in the containment cap and between the riser and the cap, Wereley said.
"It’s very difficult to judge flow rates from these multiple sources," he said. "My position is that the claims (of capturing the 'vast majority' of oil) cannot be made because the flow is too complicated."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37573643/ns/disaster_in_the_gulf
Cast doubt on statement that device could capture 'vast majority' of oil
msnbc.com
updated 2 hours, 16 minutes ago
Some scientists are taking issue with BP's statement that a containment cap placed over a gushing well could be capturing "the vast majority" of oil spewing into the Gulf of Mexico.
They suggest it's misleading, if not irresponsible, to make such a statement when the company has acknowledged it doesn't know how much oil is flowing from the busted well, or how much the spill rate has increased since engineers cut a riser pipe so it could properly fit the containment cap.
"I don’t see that as being a credible claim," said Steve Wereley, associate professor of mechanical engineering at Purdue University and a member of the Flow Rate Technical Group, a national panel of scientists and engineers tasked with determining the spill size.
"What I would say to BP is, show the American public the before and after shots of the evidence on which they’re basing that claim," Werely told msnbc.com on Tuesday.
"I do not know how BP can make that assertion when they don’t know how much oil is escaping. I would say that statement is their hope and aspiration," added Ira Leifer, a researcher in the Marine Science Institute at the University of California Santa Barbara who is also a member of the flow-rate panel.
On Sunday, BP Chief Executive Tony Hayward told the BBC that he believed the cap was likely to capture "the majority, probably the vast majority" of the oil gushing from the well.
Asked in the interview if he was being overoptimistic, Hayward responded: "I think there's no doubt that it has been difficult to predict because all of this is a first. Every piece of this implementation is the first time it's been done in 5,000 feet of water, a mile beneath the sea surface."
On Tuesday, BP said the containment device captured 14,800 barrels of oil the previous day, the highest capture rate yet since the system was installed last week. The company said Hayward's statement was totally consistent with the official spill estimates to date.
"We've always said it was an estimate and there's uncertainty attached to that whatever estimate you choose to go with," said John Pack, a BP spokesman in Houston. "But it wouldn't change the nature of our response, which is to firstly stop what's going on in the subs, to contain the oil and collect it, and protect the shoreline and clean it up."
The official government estimate of the flow rate is 12,000 to 19,000 barrels a day, which means the new device should be capturing the bulk of the oil. But some scientists have said those flow numbers could represent just the lower range and that the rate could be multiple times higher.
Worst-case scenario?
Leifer said based on the data he's seen so far, the rate of flow from the broken well has increase since the initial April 20 explosion at the Deepwater Horizon rig, which killed 11 workers. He believes BP's decision last week to sever the well's damaged riser pipe in order to install the containment cap has increased the flow by far more than the 20 percent BP and government officials had predicted.
In fact, Leifer says, the well may be spewing what BP had called before the spill its worst-case scenario — as much as 100,000 barrels a day from a freely flowing pipe.
He said he's seen no evidence from BP to date that would be inconsistent from that dire scenario.
Judging by live undersea videos, "it looks like a freely flowing pipe," Leifer said. "From what it looks like right now it suggests to me they’re capturing a negligible fraction."
It's unclear how much oil is still escaping because scientists don't have access to enough data and the video feeds show a "disorganized cloud" of oil shooting out of open vents in the containment cap and between the riser and the cap, Wereley said.
"It’s very difficult to judge flow rates from these multiple sources," he said. "My position is that the claims (of capturing the 'vast majority' of oil) cannot be made because the flow is too complicated."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37573643/ns/disaster_in_the_gulf