Manny Pacquiao Agrees To Blood Testing, Taunts Mayweather
- Thread starter Johnny Truelove
- Start date
Pac agrees to the test but not the test that has no cut off up to the fight. I think Mayweather is thinking he has the leverage to make Pac conceed even further to his demands. He maybe using this "retirement" thing as bate for Pac or for us the boxing public. If he is serious about retirement them I wish him well I injoyed watching him. I will look forward to a Pac vs Marq 3 if possible.
I just wish Pacman would let us know why all of a sudden he's agreeing to the cutoff date that was proposed during the first round of negotiations... What happened to not giving in to Mayweather's demands? Now all of a sudden he's giving in to the demands?
Maybe he didn't think he could beat Mayweather at first and then after he saw how Mosely hurt him maybe he thinks he has a chance now????
Maybe he didn't think he could beat Mayweather at first and then after he saw how Mosely hurt him maybe he thinks he has a chance now????
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why does it matter NOW?
The first negotiation was totally different and a different time. If you recall, Pacquiao's first compromise was to take 3 additional tests total, which weren't going to be random. Mayweather said no. Pac/Arum said ok, we'll do a cutoff date of 30 days. Mayweather said no. Pac/Arum said, ok, we'll do 24 days (since that was the amount of time pac gave blood before the ricky hatton fight). Mayweather said no. Then they had the judge intervene. They got it down to 20 days, and Mayweather still said no. He wanted 14.
I think AT THAT TIME, Pac/Arum thought hey, we already compromised 3-4 times here and floyd isn't. Weeks and weeks of back and forth negotiating had passed. On top of all that both sides made the mistake of making things very public, which only heated the negotiations more and both sides resulted to insults, accusations, etc. to the point where things just got nasty and spiraled out of control.
I think now that time has passed and new negotiations have begun, with both camps being mostly silent as far as the media goes, it is a lot better this time around. I think Pac/Arum understand now that Floyd wont do anything more than 14 days, so that's what they agree to from the start. It could very well turn out that Floyd will demand something like 5 or 7 days and pac/arum will have to negotiate to like 10 days or something.
The point is Pac is willing to do more to get this fight made, so this should be very promising. I can only assume and hope, that Floyd will do the same.
The first negotiation was totally different and a different time. If you recall, Pacquiao's first compromise was to take 3 additional tests total, which weren't going to be random. Mayweather said no. Pac/Arum said ok, we'll do a cutoff date of 30 days. Mayweather said no. Pac/Arum said, ok, we'll do 24 days (since that was the amount of time pac gave blood before the ricky hatton fight). Mayweather said no. Then they had the judge intervene. They got it down to 20 days, and Mayweather still said no. He wanted 14.
I think AT THAT TIME, Pac/Arum thought hey, we already compromised 3-4 times here and floyd isn't. Weeks and weeks of back and forth negotiating had passed. On top of all that both sides made the mistake of making things very public, which only heated the negotiations more and both sides resulted to insults, accusations, etc. to the point where things just got nasty and spiraled out of control.
I think now that time has passed and new negotiations have begun, with both camps being mostly silent as far as the media goes, it is a lot better this time around. I think Pac/Arum understand now that Floyd wont do anything more than 14 days, so that's what they agree to from the start. It could very well turn out that Floyd will demand something like 5 or 7 days and pac/arum will have to negotiate to like 10 days or something.
The point is Pac is willing to do more to get this fight made, so this should be very promising. I can only assume and hope, that Floyd will do the same.
Doctors Back Pacquiao's Case Against USADA Protocol
By Lem Satterfield
During the failed negotiations for a potential March 13 bout against unbeaten Floyd Mayweather, seven-division champion, Manny Pacquiao claimed that he did not want to have blood randomly drawn for drug testing within 14 days of a fight.
During Thursday's Nevada State Athletic Commission hearing and teleconference that dealt with steroids and drug testing for illegal substances, the Filipino superstar's assertion received some support.
Former chief ringside physician, Dr. David Watson, argued that hematomas, infections or other injuries could develop in the arm as a result of the skin being punctured "within three weeks of a fight."
"Dr. Watson has done thousands of weigh-in physicals and done thousands of fights. He's viewed tons of medical records. What Dr. Watson was kind of saying was that on some occasions with fighters, he would notice hematomas on the inside of the elbow where they gave blood," said Keith Kizer, executive director of the NSAC.
"So Dr. Watson was concerned that you could have fighters who -- if you take blood too close to the fight -- you could run the risk of something like that developing in a fighter," said Kizer. "That could cause an effect on their performance, especially when they've had to do fights on late notice, for the infections diseases -- Hepetitus A, Hepetitus B, and HIV -- and they had to give blood for that."
Kizer said that another doctor, Robert Voy, formerly of United States Olympic Committee drug testing, "brought up the fact that you can have infections."
"There was a center in Las Vegas that re-used needles for some sort of tests, and people got Hepititus C from that situation," said Kizer. "So there's a concern that you can infect somebody and that you can infect the arm nick the vein, or jab it in the wrong place. [Dr. Watson] noticed some brusing on the arms within three weeks of the fight. The question is, can you minimize that?"
According to Travis Tygart, the answere is a resounding, "Yes."
The executive chairman of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, Tygart was also a part of the conference call.
Tygart's USADA achieved a boxing first by implementing and overseeing the random testing of blood and urine on both Floyd Mayweather and Shane Mosley during the lead up to their May 1 clash won by Mayweather.
"Maybe he [Watson] was getting at the blackout period. Maybe he was saying that it's too big of a risk from a health and safety standpoint, and that given the need, that the risk is too big. But the risk is small and almost non-existent. The risk is minimal if you have a good policy and practice and experienced blood collectors in place," said Tygart.
"It's less of a risk than walking across the street," said Tygart. "Again, if you have in place well-defined protocols and trained professionals with experience, then it's basically about the same as getting hit by a car walking across the street when the light says to 'Walk.'"
Mayweather had both blood and urine taken on March 22, April 1, April 13 and then on the night directly after the fight. Mayweather provided urine only on April 3, April 6, April 21 and April 24.
Mosley provided both blood and urine on March 23, March 31, April 12 and directly after the bout on fight night.
Mosley provided urine on April 3, April 6, April 21 and April 24.
Recent reports in support of Pacquiao's proposed 14-day window have focused on the fact that USADA's last date for blood drawn was April 13 for Mayweather, and, April 12 for Mosley.
And Pacquiao's promoter, Bob Arum, CEO of Top Rank Promotions, believes that he knows why USADA ended its random blood testing so far out from the May 1 fight date.
"You notice that they stopped blood testing in the Floyd Mayweather-Shane Mosley fight about 18 days before. Well, I'm not a doctor, but you have to realize that a fighter uses his arms a lot like a runner uses his legs.
You can't take blood too close to the fight. Two or three weeks before the fight he can get a hematoma which can prevent him from either training or fighting," said Arum.
"If it's done further out before the fight, then there's no real problem. But closer to the fight, there's a real problem. For a fighter to lose the last week in training or the week before the fight is a disaster for a fighter," said Arum. "That could happen if he gets a hematoma in the arm that's used for the blood test. USADA, whatever, they might say, must have recognized this, and I believe that that's why they didn't test for blood before 18 days."
Tygart's assertion, however, disputes Arum's claim -- even as he said that critics of their program's testing regimen for Mayweather-Mosley were hoping for a reason to fault the procedure.
"We chose not to test for blood closer to the fight than we did because there was no need to do so. But, of course, if we had some sort of cause or suspicion that meant that we needed to do more blood tests, let's say, five days, or, four days before a fight, then we certainly would have done it. And that's why the right to have that option is such an important aspect to having a good program. It's a deterrent for the fighters," said Tygart.
"[We were] totally comfortable only having that blood test 18 days before the fight and not needing one more testing day in between. And importantly, the reality is, the people who want to criticize, they were hoping that we were going to blood test the day of the fight or the day before the fight, or two days or four days before the fight," said Tygart.
"And then, they were going to hope and pray that whatever fighter lost, that fighter was going to blame the blood test," said Tygart. "So since that didn't happen -- and that testing didn't need to happen to have an effective program -- they now have to try to complain that the window was too big."
Citing his last defeat, a unanimous decision loss to Erik Morales in March of 2005, the 31-year-old, Pacquiao (51-3-2, 38 knockouts) -- a newly-elected, Philippines congressman -- contends that drawing blood within days of the bout weakens him.
In the fight with Morales, Pacquiao bled profusely from a deep cut above his right eye. Since that loss, however, Pacquiao is 12-0, with eight knockouts -- including stoppages in the 10th, and, third round, respectively, against Morales.
"Look, man that's [not testing for a blackout period] like putting these athletes in a bubble and not letting them leave the house for three weeks. It's like, 'You can't train or you might twist your ankle,'" said Tygart, referring to the periods sanctioned by Watson and requested by Pacquiao. "But there's risks of leaving your house to walk on the sidewalk, and there's risks leaving your house in the morning to go jogging. Getting blood drawn? The risks aren't as bad as anything like that."
Tygart also railed against the NSAC's argurment that random drug testing is too costly, saying "You can craft an effective program based on how much money you have," and, "Look for new revenues."
"My simple analysis and real question is, 'How much money do you have?' You have your current money that you're spending on it, you have your current budget -- so that maybe you can move money from other areas -- or, third, you can look for new revenues sources," said Tygart.
"It's obviously very important, and the athletes deserve it," said Tygart. "When you have atheltes like Floyd Mayweather coming to us and asking us to provide for a better system, then you're obviously not doing enough."
Lem Satterfield is the boxing editor at AOL FanHouse and the news editor at BoxingScene.com. To read more from Lem Satterfield, go to AOL FanHouse by Clicking Here.
By Lem Satterfield
During the failed negotiations for a potential March 13 bout against unbeaten Floyd Mayweather, seven-division champion, Manny Pacquiao claimed that he did not want to have blood randomly drawn for drug testing within 14 days of a fight.
During Thursday's Nevada State Athletic Commission hearing and teleconference that dealt with steroids and drug testing for illegal substances, the Filipino superstar's assertion received some support.
Former chief ringside physician, Dr. David Watson, argued that hematomas, infections or other injuries could develop in the arm as a result of the skin being punctured "within three weeks of a fight."
"Dr. Watson has done thousands of weigh-in physicals and done thousands of fights. He's viewed tons of medical records. What Dr. Watson was kind of saying was that on some occasions with fighters, he would notice hematomas on the inside of the elbow where they gave blood," said Keith Kizer, executive director of the NSAC.
"So Dr. Watson was concerned that you could have fighters who -- if you take blood too close to the fight -- you could run the risk of something like that developing in a fighter," said Kizer. "That could cause an effect on their performance, especially when they've had to do fights on late notice, for the infections diseases -- Hepetitus A, Hepetitus B, and HIV -- and they had to give blood for that."
Kizer said that another doctor, Robert Voy, formerly of United States Olympic Committee drug testing, "brought up the fact that you can have infections."
"There was a center in Las Vegas that re-used needles for some sort of tests, and people got Hepititus C from that situation," said Kizer. "So there's a concern that you can infect somebody and that you can infect the arm nick the vein, or jab it in the wrong place. [Dr. Watson] noticed some brusing on the arms within three weeks of the fight. The question is, can you minimize that?"
According to Travis Tygart, the answere is a resounding, "Yes."
The executive chairman of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, Tygart was also a part of the conference call.
Tygart's USADA achieved a boxing first by implementing and overseeing the random testing of blood and urine on both Floyd Mayweather and Shane Mosley during the lead up to their May 1 clash won by Mayweather.
"Maybe he [Watson] was getting at the blackout period. Maybe he was saying that it's too big of a risk from a health and safety standpoint, and that given the need, that the risk is too big. But the risk is small and almost non-existent. The risk is minimal if you have a good policy and practice and experienced blood collectors in place," said Tygart.
"It's less of a risk than walking across the street," said Tygart. "Again, if you have in place well-defined protocols and trained professionals with experience, then it's basically about the same as getting hit by a car walking across the street when the light says to 'Walk.'"
Mayweather had both blood and urine taken on March 22, April 1, April 13 and then on the night directly after the fight. Mayweather provided urine only on April 3, April 6, April 21 and April 24.
Mosley provided both blood and urine on March 23, March 31, April 12 and directly after the bout on fight night.
Mosley provided urine on April 3, April 6, April 21 and April 24.
Recent reports in support of Pacquiao's proposed 14-day window have focused on the fact that USADA's last date for blood drawn was April 13 for Mayweather, and, April 12 for Mosley.
And Pacquiao's promoter, Bob Arum, CEO of Top Rank Promotions, believes that he knows why USADA ended its random blood testing so far out from the May 1 fight date.
"You notice that they stopped blood testing in the Floyd Mayweather-Shane Mosley fight about 18 days before. Well, I'm not a doctor, but you have to realize that a fighter uses his arms a lot like a runner uses his legs.
You can't take blood too close to the fight. Two or three weeks before the fight he can get a hematoma which can prevent him from either training or fighting," said Arum.
"If it's done further out before the fight, then there's no real problem. But closer to the fight, there's a real problem. For a fighter to lose the last week in training or the week before the fight is a disaster for a fighter," said Arum. "That could happen if he gets a hematoma in the arm that's used for the blood test. USADA, whatever, they might say, must have recognized this, and I believe that that's why they didn't test for blood before 18 days."
Tygart's assertion, however, disputes Arum's claim -- even as he said that critics of their program's testing regimen for Mayweather-Mosley were hoping for a reason to fault the procedure.
"We chose not to test for blood closer to the fight than we did because there was no need to do so. But, of course, if we had some sort of cause or suspicion that meant that we needed to do more blood tests, let's say, five days, or, four days before a fight, then we certainly would have done it. And that's why the right to have that option is such an important aspect to having a good program. It's a deterrent for the fighters," said Tygart.
"[We were] totally comfortable only having that blood test 18 days before the fight and not needing one more testing day in between. And importantly, the reality is, the people who want to criticize, they were hoping that we were going to blood test the day of the fight or the day before the fight, or two days or four days before the fight," said Tygart.
"And then, they were going to hope and pray that whatever fighter lost, that fighter was going to blame the blood test," said Tygart. "So since that didn't happen -- and that testing didn't need to happen to have an effective program -- they now have to try to complain that the window was too big."
Citing his last defeat, a unanimous decision loss to Erik Morales in March of 2005, the 31-year-old, Pacquiao (51-3-2, 38 knockouts) -- a newly-elected, Philippines congressman -- contends that drawing blood within days of the bout weakens him.
In the fight with Morales, Pacquiao bled profusely from a deep cut above his right eye. Since that loss, however, Pacquiao is 12-0, with eight knockouts -- including stoppages in the 10th, and, third round, respectively, against Morales.
"Look, man that's [not testing for a blackout period] like putting these athletes in a bubble and not letting them leave the house for three weeks. It's like, 'You can't train or you might twist your ankle,'" said Tygart, referring to the periods sanctioned by Watson and requested by Pacquiao. "But there's risks of leaving your house to walk on the sidewalk, and there's risks leaving your house in the morning to go jogging. Getting blood drawn? The risks aren't as bad as anything like that."
Tygart also railed against the NSAC's argurment that random drug testing is too costly, saying "You can craft an effective program based on how much money you have," and, "Look for new revenues."
"My simple analysis and real question is, 'How much money do you have?' You have your current money that you're spending on it, you have your current budget -- so that maybe you can move money from other areas -- or, third, you can look for new revenues sources," said Tygart.
"It's obviously very important, and the athletes deserve it," said Tygart. "When you have atheltes like Floyd Mayweather coming to us and asking us to provide for a better system, then you're obviously not doing enough."
Lem Satterfield is the boxing editor at AOL FanHouse and the news editor at BoxingScene.com. To read more from Lem Satterfield, go to AOL FanHouse by Clicking Here.
^^More than bruises. Even when The Olympic Doping Agency testing Floyd-Mosley, the last blood test they gave was 18 days away from the fight.
"We chose not to test for blood closer to the fight than we did because there was no need to do so," said Tygart.
He also said this:
Travis Tygart:
A: "The human growth hormone for sure, levels of testosterone, and other designer steroids. Sounds like you've got some information -- I'm not agreeing factually that was the difference, and I'm not disagreeing. But if that's the case, the other piece is that, prior to that 14-day or 24-day blackout period, what system was in place? Were you just using the Nevada, or the state of California, system? If that's the case, I'm not worried about the 14-day or the 24-day blackout period, I'm worried about the rest of it. If someone's telling you that's where it fell apart, I think you've got to add the follow-up, 'Well, what kind of testing was going to happen before the 14-day or the 24-day blackout period?' The 14-day period, I'm a lot less concerned about that than what you're doing in the two months before that 14-day period."
__________
__________
NSAC: Urine sufficient for testing
6-10-10
Drug-testing procedures for a potential super fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr., if held in Las Vegas, will be limited to urine testing, as far as the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) is concerned.
The NSAC upheld on Wednesday (Thursday in Manila) its drug-testing procedure on boxers as topnotch doctors Robert Voy and David Watson told the commission that urine samples are sufficient in catching drug-cheats.
Fight scribe Mike Marley wrote that Voy, a long-time Olympic boxing physician, and Watson, a member of the NSAC medical board, were of the belief that random blood testing is not the answer to curbing the use of performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs).
The two were involved in NSAC talks to review its current drug testing procedures for boxing, and assess whether or not a more stringent policy should be implemented.
It goes beyond saying that the talks were most critical to the proposed Pacquiao- Mayweather showdown being eyed for November 13, in which drug-testing procedures are a main point of negotiations.
Voy, formerly the chief medical officer of the US Olympic Committee, said blood-testing in boxing is “unreliable and impractical” and even “dangerous” and that urine testing should be done “closer to the event, the better.”
Watson echoed the same sentiment.
“I believe that urine is the best substance to test. I agree with Dr. Voy that urine (random testing) is what we should require and that blood is not necessary. I agree with Dr. Voy that there are theoretical and real risks to blood testing one of which is a (boxer getting) a hematoma on the elbow or a clot from missing a vein. There are also HIV and Hepatitis C risks,” said Watson.
The Pacquiao-Mayweather bout had originally been penciled for March 13 but a feud in drug-testing procedure sent negotiations down the drain.
Mayweather demanded for Olympic-style random blood and urine drug testing to be conducted on both fighters.
"We chose not to test for blood closer to the fight than we did because there was no need to do so," said Tygart.
He also said this:
Travis Tygart:
A: "The human growth hormone for sure, levels of testosterone, and other designer steroids. Sounds like you've got some information -- I'm not agreeing factually that was the difference, and I'm not disagreeing. But if that's the case, the other piece is that, prior to that 14-day or 24-day blackout period, what system was in place? Were you just using the Nevada, or the state of California, system? If that's the case, I'm not worried about the 14-day or the 24-day blackout period, I'm worried about the rest of it. If someone's telling you that's where it fell apart, I think you've got to add the follow-up, 'Well, what kind of testing was going to happen before the 14-day or the 24-day blackout period?' The 14-day period, I'm a lot less concerned about that than what you're doing in the two months before that 14-day period."
__________
__________
NSAC: Urine sufficient for testing
6-10-10
Drug-testing procedures for a potential super fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr., if held in Las Vegas, will be limited to urine testing, as far as the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) is concerned.
The NSAC upheld on Wednesday (Thursday in Manila) its drug-testing procedure on boxers as topnotch doctors Robert Voy and David Watson told the commission that urine samples are sufficient in catching drug-cheats.
Fight scribe Mike Marley wrote that Voy, a long-time Olympic boxing physician, and Watson, a member of the NSAC medical board, were of the belief that random blood testing is not the answer to curbing the use of performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs).
The two were involved in NSAC talks to review its current drug testing procedures for boxing, and assess whether or not a more stringent policy should be implemented.
It goes beyond saying that the talks were most critical to the proposed Pacquiao- Mayweather showdown being eyed for November 13, in which drug-testing procedures are a main point of negotiations.
Voy, formerly the chief medical officer of the US Olympic Committee, said blood-testing in boxing is “unreliable and impractical” and even “dangerous” and that urine testing should be done “closer to the event, the better.”
Watson echoed the same sentiment.
“I believe that urine is the best substance to test. I agree with Dr. Voy that urine (random testing) is what we should require and that blood is not necessary. I agree with Dr. Voy that there are theoretical and real risks to blood testing one of which is a (boxer getting) a hematoma on the elbow or a clot from missing a vein. There are also HIV and Hepatitis C risks,” said Watson.
The Pacquiao-Mayweather bout had originally been penciled for March 13 but a feud in drug-testing procedure sent negotiations down the drain.
Mayweather demanded for Olympic-style random blood and urine drug testing to be conducted on both fighters.
i was just asking about the severity of the effects of these olympic style blood tests and why is the three week thing not enough for mayweather if the guy doesnt test positive at that time and doesnt test positive after the fight the fighter should be clean. right?? Is there performance enhancing drugs a fighter can take or inject that between the time frame of three weeks before the fight and after the fight could help a fighter and him not test positive???