Is Religion the Source of Morality?

BaSICCally · Jan 17, 2003

True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness. -Einstein

All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. Einstein

n9newunsixx5150 · Jan 17, 2003

@2-0-Sixx

I was referring to the people who have been posting in this thread recently.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@miggidy

quote:
How do I fall in this gap?
Because I refuse to believe in a religion full of deities?

It matters not, my friend. I am through preaching. Just keep believing. Its not righteous for you or I to judge other's beliefs. So let us just BELIEVE. God will place everything we need before us.....

HERESY · Jan 17, 2003

@nine16 5150

basically what you keep saying is that all these gods (ALLAH,KRSTA AND YHWH) are the same/one in the same/lead to the same path etc etc etc.

can you explain (or type) what EACH of the major scriptures (veda,bible and quran) say about the following:

GOD

CREATION OF THE WORLD

MAN

SIN

SALVATION

DEATH/AFTERLIFE

i would love for you to post up what the quran says about creation compared to what the vedas say about creation.

what the bible says about sin compared to what the quran says.

i would appreciate it if you would post this. so far you have submitted no evidence to suggest that these 3 gods are the same......in fact YOU contradict things that Vyasadeva typed.

one example of this is when YOU typed

this however is NOT in harmony with what vyasadeva typed

and

.

however i would like for you to post what each major scripture/book(s) state.......but..knowing you......these statements (or modified versions of them) will be your answer.......

so if you cant tell me what they say about these subjects how can you make the claim or suggest that these gods are the same?

if you have not read much of the hindu writings how can you say there is only one "whether you recognize it as christ or krsna"?

using the bible,quran and vedas show us how allah,krsna and yhwh are the same.....

:dead: :dead:

:H:

ps watch him worm his way out of this......

Vyasadeva · Jan 18, 2003

Of course they are different descriptions, yet there is still only ONE GOD, who is the Absolute, who is ALL-ENCOMPASSING. God is limitless, therefore He has unlimited names and descriptions.

So what? The Supreme Being is known by different people in different capacities, depending on time, circumstance, and their level of sincerity in wanting to know Him. These apparent differences that we may view in different doctrines, are completely inconsequential to the transcendental Lord.

Christ was not different from his body. His body was 100% spiritual. You and I are different from our bodies. We are a mixture of spiritual and physical.

If one views Christ as just some "man" who happened to be God's son, then he does not understand the spiritual being that Jesus was.

Really? Then why is it that over a BILLION people have become "attracted" to "Christianity"? Because of the flawless philosophy of the dogma? Maybe because people need an extra place to waste their money?

No, they are ATTRACTED to "Christianity" because of the pure character of Jesus Christ. He is the truth, and the truth attracts sincere people. He spoke the truth about God, and God is the all-attractive Supreme Being.

I understand. And do you interpret this to mean that Christ was and is the ONLY anointed one, and that due to his anointed status HE is the ONLY way to reach God?

It is not a simple yes or no question.

Yes, he appeared to be made of flesh as a normal man does. You and I also appear to be flesh beings, but we know that we are actually spiritual beings. Our flesh is impure while the flesh of Jesus was 100% spiritual. For Jesus's body to ascend into heaven requires that his body be 100% spiritual, because material is temporary and impure and the spiritual is pure and eternal.

I am not in error nor in contradiction, and I never said that all spiritual ways lead to the same door. All I have said is that all doors reside within the ONE SUPREME LORD.

What insults and low blows? From what you have said it seems that you do not truly understand what it means for a soul such as Christ to be eternally liberated. He is eternally a 100% spiritual being, but you claim that he was under the influence of material nature.

And you are the only one who claims that I don't know the meaning of Christ, and it is you are in error in that belief.

That's good. What exactly is "Walking in the spirit"? Let's say you had no need for money. You have a billion in the bank and all the time you needed to "walk in the spirit". What are the activities of one who walks in the spirit, and what activities does he avoid?

And I aint sayin this to be sarcastic, the reason I am asking is because those who follow the Vedas and those who worship the Deities or Krsna, they are "walking in the spirit" and are acting in transcendence.

Is your opinion that "walking in the spirit" can only be done by those who adhere to the judeo-christian literature and their doctrine/dogma/philosophy?

So what? Don't worship them then.

Not at all. I am saying that Jesus appeared in a particular time and in order for his word to be accepted, he had to preach within the established parameters of that time.

A college professor who has a degree in advanced calculus, does not go into his algebra 2 class and give lessons on calculus. He teaches what the time and circumstance dictate be taught. That does not mean the professor is "sugar coating" anything, he is simply following protocol.

"I'm" saying it? No, this is verifiable objective data.

No, potna, *I* don't have access to them, but the person who DID have access to them for his research of Saint Francis found what was hidden in them. His name was Edmond Bordeaux Szekely and he discovered the hidden texts in the vaults of the Vatican in 1923.

This is a quote from Jesus from the Gospel of the Twelve, and it was also hidden away in the Vatican.

"After my departure there will arise the ignorant and the crafty, and many things will they ascribe unto Me that I never spake, and many things which I did speak will they withhold, but the day will come when the clouds shall be rolled away, and the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth with healing in his wings."

Sounds like Jesus was talking about the Catholic church and modern "Christianity" if you ask me.

And there are those who say that the spirit of Eliyah was present alongside the spirit of John in one body. Then there are those who say that it is about the "ministry". Then someone else has a different interpretation.

"Christians" can't even agree on what that passage means but they will say ANYthing to disagree with the obvious reference to reincarnation.

He was talking to the Pharisees! What, he was going to claim to be Eliyah and be killed on the spot for blasphemy?

It has EVERYTHING to do with reincarnation, but you refuse to view the passage objectively. The letter is about those who overcome the world, who successfully crucify the flesh.

Those who overcome, Christ will make a pillar in the temple of God, and NO MORE WILL HE GO OUT. The verse is crystal clear, it refers to the soul leaving the body, and when one returns to the spiritual world, there is no more birth and death, there is no more going out.

You cannot die spiritually. That is a controlling element of "Christian" dogma, and is complete nonsense. Even common sense tells us that if a paticle of material is temporary and destructible, then the ANTI-material particle, which is the spirit soul, is necessarily indestructible and eternal.

The elimination of reincarnation and karma, this bogus "spiritual death", these are controlling factors which keep people chained to a dogma and church EVEN if they intrinsically know it is incorrect. The fear of "not being saved" or of "spiritual death" are simple mind control methods of a poisoned message.

Bhagavad-Gita 2.20: "For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

2.22: "As a person puts on new garments, giving up the old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones."

2+2=4
1+3=4
1+1+1+1=4

These 3 contradict each other, they CANNOT all be true. They are NOT cohesive.

That is a by-product of his death, that many would see that as an impetus to serve God, but Christ did not die as a barter for your sinful activities.

To relegate Jesus to nothing but your sin merchant is a sin itself.

You are in delusion.

Yup, and indulging in the illusion of maya for our sense gratification is sin because it is a DIRECT violation of the will of God.

Spiritual death/separation from God = nonsense. God is the Absolute. Everything is an emanation from Him yet He is the all-encompassing totality of all existence.

One is never separated from God, but one can be illusioned and mistakenly assume such a thing.

Vyasadeva · Jan 18, 2003

I'm familiar with it, but I don't fall for that "spiritual death" nonsense. The spirit is eternal. Eternal means not having a beginning, middle, or ending. The spirit is ABOVE "time". How can something which is above time, ever "die"? To "die" necessitates an existence within time, such as our material bodies.

You haven't shown that, you've just presented your spin on the passages. And as I said, the gospels which directly commented on reincarnation were removed in 553 A.D. The gospel of Thomas is the one which clearly proves that Jesus taught reincarnation.

The Jesus in India link? Yeah I read it.

The missing period is the time of Jesus's life between 13 and 30 which is undocumented.

And what are you talking about there is no documents that said he went to India? There are PLENTY of documents in India, Persia, Turkey, Tibet, etc., ALL which describe a person EXACTLY like Jesus, and which specifically describe him as "leader of the healed" and "Son of God", etc.

Not being present in a certain place DOES NOT mean that you are no longer from that certain place. A Nazarene who travels to India is STILL a Nazarene.

And that page is nothing but "Christian" fundamentalist propaganda, it doesn't debunk anytihng. You are in error.

They are gnostic?! No they aren't. They are gospels of Jesus which were not beneficial to the early church which was struggling to attract followers. The gospels of Thomas and the Essenes and the Twelve are the word of Jesus and they were removed so that the church could more effectively infect the message of Christ with their own selfishly motivated dogma.

You have not shown that Jesus never preached reincarnation. You simply brushed off the Biblical references, and then you conveniently labeled the removed books which show Jesus preaching reincarnation as "gnostic".

Observing passover does not necessarily mean that he ate lamb. And Luke 24 may not be completely accurate. It is widely known that Jesus was a vegetarian, but even if he did eat meat, so what? He is the Son of God, he can do what he wants.

A person who knows that Krsna is the Supreme Lord does not worship Siva or any other demigods.

A Hindu who worships Siva or Visnu, and who does NOT know that Krsna is the Supreme Lord, is practicing polytheism, and he thinks that Brahman is the Supreme.

All I asked is what your OPINIONS were on the evidence which points to him having visited there. I was not asking for proof, and I am not obliged to provide any.

I did not make a definite claim that he did or did not visit India. YOU, however, have made the definitive claim that he DID NOT step foot there. So unless you were walking with him, what authority do you have with which to make that statement?

So what? He is the Son of God. He can break all 4 if he wants to.

Hahhaaa, yeah right. Your powers of speculation are amazing. Being present at a passover DOES NOT mean that he definitely ate meat. I went to Black Angus last night and I didn't eat meat.

You yourself said that your flesh body is not the TRUE HERESY, so isn't it true that you APPEAR to have a physical body, even though the TRUE YOU is **NOT** that physical body?

I understand that. Just preaching "love thy enemy" and "love the Lord" were outlandish and unacceptable in his time. But he STILL had to preach within the basic construct of Judaism and the Torah otherwise he would have not had any following at all.

If you're going to use a Bible quote out of context to call me a false Christ, I can use a quote to call you a deaf man.

All souls have preexistence. The soul has no beginning, middle, or ending. Since the soul is outside the realm of TIME, it preexists the material universe.

Bhagavad-Gita 2:30: "He who dwells in the body is eternal and can never be slain. Therefore you need not grieve for any creature."

Name one hole in the "doctrine". And who said you need to name and remember every God?

Your dismissal of the Vedas seems to stem from laziness or indifference, and not incontrovertible truth.

Show me ONE hole that you are speaking of?

You already know about what the Bible says, and I am not interested in researching the Quran, but I can give you the Vedic version.

God = Sri Krsna

Creation = God is perpetually creating an infinite number of material universes and within these infinite universes exist an infinite number of living entities. The living entities are at their source a spiritual entity, a spirit soul, and are conditioned and attached to their material bodies.

Man = One out of 8,400,000 different forms of life in the universe, and the form which is meant for Self-realization and liberation from the material entanglement. The animals are forms which do not have the ability to become liberated. The souls in animals are progressing upwards towards the human form, where Man is given free will with which to either liberate himself or remain in the material world.

Sin = Working for the fruits of labor. Indulging in sense gratification. Any action which is not in line with the will of the Supreme Lord is considered to be sin.

Bhagavad-Gita 5.10: "One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme God, is not affected by sinful action, as the lotus leaf is untouched by water."

Salvation = Liberation (mukti). Our spiritual eyes are opened by the torchlight of knowledge wielded by the spiritual master. Jesus is one such spiritual master. By enlightening us into matters of the spiritual, we are "saved" from living in darkness and ignorance.

Death = "One who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and in full devotion engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord, will certainly attain to the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Bhagavad-Gita Ch. 8 Text 10

Vyasadeva · Jan 18, 2003

You are quite incorrect. I do not base ANY of my ideas on the claims of Jesus visiting India. I repeat, that is NOT a basis for my worldview.

I simply presented that to see what yours and Heresy's opinions were on the evidence which points to his having visited. As I expected, it is also dismissed outright.

It's one or the other. Either I am "saved" and am going to heaven, OR my actions have consequences and *I* ultimately decide my destination. Which one is it?

Would you care to speculate as to whether the priests who get caught for pedophila are still "saved" and have their "ticket", OR will their sinful actions result in punishment?

Yes, if you would have read the website you posted, it explains that Vyasadeva is the compiler of ALL the Vedic literature, including the Bhavishya Purana. The website you provided is suspect, seeing as they only posted certain portions and have grammatical errors all throught the scripture.

I'm curious, did you read about the part where Adama and his wife, and how Kali came in the form of a serpent, and how Adama ate from the forbidden tree? Sound a little familiar?

How about the story of Noah being in there? Here is a little bit:

"Once the Lord appeared in his dream and said: “My dear Nyuha (Noah), please listen, there will be devastation on the seventh day. Therefore, you have to be very quick that you make a big boat and ride in it. O chief of the devotees, you will be celebrated as a great king”.

Then he made a strong boat which was 300 feet long, 50 feet wide and 30 feet high. It was beautiful and all the living entities could take shelter in it. He then himself rode in it, engaged in meditating on Lord Vishnu.

Lord Indra called the devastating cloud named Sambartaka and poured heavy rain continuously for 40 days. The whole earth, Bharat-varsa, had merged in the water and four oceans came up together."

Interesting isn't it? A text written before there was such a thing as the Bible or history, yet it is about the future and is inconceivably accurate

Of course there are "nice" people who worship Jesus, but the fact is that the majority of "Christians" are self-indulgent mlecchas.

They aren't wicked in YOUR eyes, but in the transcendental view of the sastra, if they are not following the 4 principles, they are mlecchas. Thieves do not consider other thieves to be wicked. Gangsters do not consider other gangsters to be wicked.

Meat eating is eating in the mode of ignorance. Perpetuating needless slaughter is a wicked trait. Meat eaters worshipping Jesus is a perfect example of "He who is worshipped by the wicked".

You are in error. Actually it is PROOF that the Purana is speaking of Jesus. The Vedas expplain that meat eating is sinful behavior and the killing of animals is carried out by the wicked.

Since your average "Christian" eats meat and sees no evil in the needless slaughter of billions of animals, Jesus Christ is worshipped by the wicked.

No, I don't know where you got that from. Prajapati is a common name seen throughout the Vedas, but Lord Brahma is also known as Prajapati. Prajapati also refers to the controller of women, who are the objects of sexual pleasure, and the controller of the sense perception of sexual pleasure.

No, nothing is "going against" anything. Jesus *is* a perfect role model and you *should* try to live like he did. I'm not arguing against that in any way.

It's too bad though that those who claim to worship and follow him can't get themselves to actualoly LIVE LIKE HIM. They are not sincere in their desire and ultimately they just want Jesus to pay for their sins so they can go on enjoying life in whatever way they want.

No, no, no.. You are comparing two things which are completely unrelated. Prajapati was not a "false Christ" or a "false prophet", nor did he pretend to be.

You are flat out wrong potna.

I notice you have a pattern you follow, which is that you start out typing about a certain thing, but then you get carried off into other subjects, then you make ASSUMPTIONS about what I believe in, and then you attempt to defeat that position that you set up. Your posts are long and rambling and ultimately you are arguing against a position that I don't even hold! That is called a strawman, and it is not a very honest method of dicussion.

I do not subscribe to your theory of Prajapati, and the Vedas do not corroborate that which you are spouting.

What surprises me is how the hell have you come to this conclusion when I haven't said ANYTHING about what you are saying?!?!

I do NOT agree or accept with this "theory" you are talking about.

Dog, I have not said that I accept ANY theory on the matter. I simply PRESENTED the subject to you. I did NOT say that I know for a fact that he did or did not go to India. I did NOT say that you have to believe it. I simply presented it because there is evidence which points to it happening.

You really should ASK what a person believes about a certain thing before you make assumptions and then argue against those assumptions, because as you are finding out, I do not agree nor believe any of the things you are assuming about me.

Yes, God was pissed because they were "CREATING THEIR OWN GODS."

The Gods in the Vedas are NOT "created", they are eternal and authentic.

For example, if I decide not to pay postage any more, so I build my own mailbox and start putting my letters in there, will they get delivered? NO. Because that mailbox is not bonafide. If I use a U.S. Postal Service recognized mailbox, my mail will get delivered.

Similarly, if one worships an authentic Deity as described in the Vedas, the desired result is obtained. If I worship a Scooby-Doo chia pet, that is NOT authorized and God will be pissed off at that.

Yes, love Him above everything else, but that does NOT mean that He cannot be worshipped in Deity form.

You say God is a person, but you don't know what He looks like do you? I do. You just don't understand that worshipping a Deity of Krsna is the same as worshipping Him in your mind. If one chants the maha-mantra, it is the same as engaging in Deity worship. These various methods of worship are authorized by the Lord because he is so merciful upon us that He lets us worship Him in many different ways.

Vyasadeva · Jan 18, 2003

What are you talking about?!?!? The Vedas were around for 3,000 years BEFORE Christ appeared! They were being followed in India at the same time Christ was living and walking.

Jesus could NOT have spoken about the Vedas because the time and circumstances of his appearance demanded that he stick to the fundamentals of Judaism while still preaching his unique message.

If Jesus came out the blue talking about Krsna, Siva, Indra, Brahma, Vedas, do you REALLY think he would have had any followers? No, he would not have had one. His mission was not to preach Krsna consciousness, it was to preach love of God to a degraded mleccha society.

Hahahhaa, HOW DO YOU KNOW?!? You're like these people who say "if Pac were alive, he'd be ridin on ____". It is illogical and dishonest to pretend to be able to speak for Jesus like that.

He did mention it. The Gospel of Thomas clearly shows Jesus teaching about reincarnation. CONVENIENTLY, the early church had it removed from the Bible in 553 A.D. because they wanted to increase their power and influence, and by removing reincarnation and inventing some nonsense called "spiritual death", they have succeeded in controlling the sheep.

Jesus had to use parables to get people to understand even the most BASIC of spiritual truths. The Vedas are not basic at all, they are the most advanced knowledge in existence. They explain the SCIENCE of God. The knowledge is deeper than the Bible, and since the people of his time already adhered to a specific scripture, Jesus COULD NOT have up and introduced some totally foreign scripture and preached about the Gods therein.

It doesn't exist? I don't understand. The Vedas have been archaeologically tested and are world known to be over 5,000 years old and the oldest writings in all existence.

You are so big on "historical evidence", well "history" says that the Vedas are the oldest writings on the planet and were here 3,000 years BEFORE Jesus.

So do they exist or not? And are you now going to question "historical evidence"?

2+2=4
1+3=4

They contradict themselves, yet both are TRUE. Do you see how this is possible yet?

Wrong. God is UNCHANGING, ETERNAL, ABSOLUTE. Due to different TIME and CIRCUMSTANCES in the material world, different people have realized God in DIFFERENT ways.

The two are inextricably intertwined. If you do not believe anything but the Bible, then your knowledge of God cannot extend beyond it.

And yet isn't it interesting that these pre-flood Vedas accurately predicted the flood? They predicted Jesus, they predicted the Buddha, they predicted Lord Caitanya. They were written by an incarnation of God. God did not flood the earth because of idols, lol.

Yes, but understand that when Krsna takes birth, He is not a "man at first", he does not "retire", he does not "become the Supreme Personality of Godhead", etc. He is eternally the Supreme Lord.

You welcome. Basically yeah, they are the same thing. The Bible leaves all the angels nameless, and the Vedas explain exactly who they are in full detail.

Krsna says the same thing. Since He is the source of all the demigods and they are subordinate to Him, why should one worship a demigod? Go straight to the source.

At the end of the Gita Krsna says: "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." (18.66)

True indeed. God the Father is the source of all, and is the Supreme Person we owe everything to. He is the only one worthy of our worship.

Think of it like this. Just like a president has various people under him who carry out the functions of the government, God has his subordinate angels and demigods who are carrying out the functions he has given them.

The president is not personally carrying out every action of the government, yet he is still the final authority. Similarly, God has his appointed workers, yet He eternally remains the Supreme Person in charge and the final authority.

Not true. When the Supreme Lord is worshipped, ALL the demigods are pleased and bestow munificent charity to the worshipper.

Wrong, my friend.

***YOU*** have no clue as to what He is.
*I* KNOW who He is.

I cannot be lumped into a group with you or anyone who does not know who the Father who art in heaven is. I know Him personally.

If you say so, but aren't you fixated on the Bible's view of all physical and spiritual things?

Yes, because God is a 100% spiritual being.

How do you know who has seen God in which form?

Says who? You? You must be crazy. The Vedas completely explain the form of God. There is the universal form, and there is His transcendental personal form. It is only a mystery to those who desire it to be. The answers are there out in the open for anyone who wants to know.

No, they are different dimensions. One is temporary, destructible and imperfect, and the other is eternal, absolute, and perfectly pure. The material realm is sustained yb the spiritual realm, but they are NOT the same dimension.

That dimension is the spiritual world. It exists above any conceptual understanding of mind and body. It is the Brahmajyoti.

No, "they" are not the same. They are different descriptions of the ONE SUPREME BEING.

2+2=4 and 1+3=4 are two equations which have the SAME conclusion. They APPEAR to us to be two different equations, yet we can see that the conclusion is nondifferent.

Same with the Bible and the Vedas. The Bible is 2+2 and the Vedas are 1+3. They are two different ways of achieving the same conclusion.

There is no denying that they are different philosophies. But if you see with absolute vision, you would see that they are all describing the ONE SAME GOD, and that God is unlimited therefore He is known by unlimited names.

Peace,
Vyasadeva

Vyasadeva · Jan 18, 2003

It's a shame you guys get hung up on the Deities thing. They are simply the angels referred to in the Bible, but the Vedas give a face and explanation to them.

As far as praying to the father only, as I posted above, Krsna says the exact same thing.

"Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." (18.66)

Vyasadeva · Jan 18, 2003

What n9neWUN can see, is that ALL things, Krsna, Jesus, me, you, him, EVERYTHING... are ALL existing within the ONE. This apparent separation is only due to our viewing the world with material vision.

The third eye can see that ALL IS ONE. We can refer to this ONE in different ways. I call Him Krsna, you might call Him God, a Buddhist might say it is a "void". Regardless of what particular realization of it we have, there is no denying that it is Absolute, eternally ONE.

The CONCLUSION of all of them is the same. Each scripture describes an ultimate SUPREME BEING above whom nothing exists.

The PARTICULAR attributes revealed in each scripture are DIFFERENT, yet they ALL are describing the ONE SUPREME LORD who is all-pervading and all-encompassing.

n9newunsixx5150 · Jan 18, 2003

@Heresy

"Of course they are different descriptions, yet there is still only ONE GOD, who is the Absolute, who is ALL-ENCOMPASSING. God is limitless, therefore He has unlimited names and descriptions."

--Vyasadeva

I think V pretty much answers things for you. You seem to dwell on material "differences". Spiritual truth will reconcile these problems for you. If not now, eventually.....
reconciliation is inevitable.

HERESY · Jan 18, 2003

YHWH is NOT the god of the muslims. they concepts and attributes are different. same with krsna and allah. 100% different.

so what you are saying is that this supreme being changes over time to suit the needs of others? that contradicts the bible.....

you are saying that jesus had a body that was 100% spiritual? i know BEFORE his coming that he had a 100% spiritual body. are you saying that he did not have a 100% flesh body? a yes or no would suffice and condemn you.

what does this have to do with *YOUR* misuse/mistranslation of a word???? you said christ means "attraction". if you were to say this amongst greek scholars or theologist you would be ridiculed until the end of time. your comeback has NO relevence to our discussion.

you said christ meant attarction.now you wordsmith it and say this

in the music industry we have a saying it says "you cant polish a turd"

annointed of man? NO. of JAH? no. david was annointed. to understand the concept of "christ" one must understand what it means to be "annointed". in regards to him being the ONLY way yes. in his own words:John 14: 6-7.Hebrews 5:8-9 AND **1 JOHN 5:11-12**. if you come any other way you come as a THEIF.

yes it is. why is it that when i ask people this question (9165150 included) they are stumped or avoid the issue? you are denying that jesus came in the flesh. you are denying that he had a body of physical flesh.

here is what the bible says about YOU:

2 JOHN 1:7 FOR MANY DECEIVERS HAVE GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD WHO DO NOT CONFESS JESUS CHRIST AS COMING IN THE FLESH. THIS IS A DECEIVER AND AN ANTICHRIST

AND

1 JOHN 4:1-31.BELOVED DO NOT BELIEVE EVERY SPIRIT, BUT TEST THE SPIRITS, WHETHER THEY ARE OF GOD; BECAUSE MANY FALSE PROPHETS HAVE GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD. 2.BY THIS YOU KNOW THE SPIRIT OF GOD: EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSESS THAT JESUS CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH IS OF GOD, 3 AND EVERY SPIRIT THAT DOES NOT CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN TEH DLESH IS NOT OF GOD. AND THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST,WHICH YOU HAVE HEARD IS COMING, AND NOW IS ALREADY IN THE WORLD.

BEFORE YOU REPLY WITH YOUR ANSWER I SUGGEST *YOU* LOOK UP THE WORD "SPIRIT" AND "FLESH" IN A STRONGS CONCORDENCE AND GREEK LEXICON.

SEE THE ABOVE. ELIJAH WENT INTO HEAVEN. ENOCH IS SAID TO HAVE WENT TO HEAVEN. THESE WERE NORMAL MEN.

KEEP WORDSMITHING.

*SEE THE PREVIOUS REPLIES*

WHEN I ASKED YOU DID YOU KNOW WHAT IT MEANT YOU TOLD ME "ATTRACTION". IT DOESNT MEAN ATTRACTION SO YOU *DIDNT* KNOW WHAT IT MEANT. IF YOU DID YOU WOULD HAVE TOLD ME WHAT IT MEANT.

REFARIN FROM VARIOUS THINGS. FROM LUST TO GREED TO HATRED TO MALICE. HE WILL DENY HIMSELF AND PLACE CHRIST FIRST. PEACE,TRUTH,SALVATION,FAITH,LOVE. IF ONE STAYS ***ROOTED*** IN THE SPIRIT HE IS *IN* THE SPIRIT.

WALKING IN THE SPIRIT CAN ONLY BE DONE BY WALKING IN JESUS. BY WALKING WITH THE RAUCH HAKODESH. NO OTHER WAY.

I DONT. DO YOU WORSHIP THEM?

JESUS PREACHED ***CONTRARY*** TO WHAT THE OTHERS WERE PREACHING. THIS IS WHY MANY PEOPLE SAID "WHAT *NEW* DOCTRINE IS THIS?". WHAT HE WAS BRINGING WAS WAAAAAAAAY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE PEOPLE WERE USED TO HEARING.

HE DIDNT FOLLOW PROTOCOL....

IT COULD BE ISLAM AND HINDUISM ALSO. IF HE IS TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIANS AND CATHOLICS IT DOESNT AFFECT ME. IM NEITHER.

I HAVE NOT SPOKEN WITH ANY CHRISTIAN WHO SAYS THAT ITS REINCARNATION. THAT WOULD GO AGAINST SCRIPTURES.

SO JOHN ***LIED*** TO SAVE HIS LIFE YET HE WOULDNT SHUT UP AND WAS THROWN IN PRISON FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST HEROD WHO HAD ****MORE**** POWER THAN THE JEWS???????? THIS IS ABSURD...BY THE WAY HE WASNT TALKING TO PHARISEES BUT THOSE WHO WERE SENT BY THEM. PLEASE READ JOHN 1:24

PLEASE STOP MANIPULATING SCRIPTURES TO MEAN SOMETHING IT ISNT.IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REINCARNATION. HEBREWS 9:27. SPECIFICALLY STATES AND AS IT IS APPOINTED FOR MAN TO DIE *ONCE* AFTER THIS THE JUDGEMENT.

I HAVE TO CUT THIS SHORT BECAUSE I NEED TO DO SOMETHING

I WILL BE BACK

HERESY · Jan 18, 2003

ok part 2

none of those contradict because they *all* add up to four. each of them will have the number 1. they are ALL true. in the case of VEDAS,BIBLE AND QURAN. OR BETTER YET YHWH,ALLAH AND KRSNA THE NUMBERS ARE OFF.

ALLAH=ONE GOD NO PARTNERS

YHWH=PART OF TRINITY FORBIDS THE WORSHIP OF THOSE OUTSIDE THE TRINITY.

KRSNA=FATHER OF GODS ALLOWS WORSHIP OF DEMIGODS.

HOW DO ALL OF THESE ADD TO BEING THE SAME GOD?

YOU CAN DIE SPIRITUALLY. HOW? SIN. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. SIN IS DYING A SPIRITUAL DEATH. YOU ARE NO LONGER IN YHWH WHEN YOU SIN. YOU ARE IN REBELLION AGAINST HIM WHEN YOU DO IT. I CAN SEE THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF THIS. SPIRITUAL DEATH=CUT OFF FROM GOD/SEPERATED FROM GOD. IM***NOT*** TALKING PARTICLES AND ATOMS ETC ETC ETC.

I DONT ADHERE TO THE VEDAS. I ADHERE TO THE BIBLE. SO IF YOU COULD PROVE YOUR POINT WITH THE BIBLE I WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR MESSAGE....

1 Peter 2:21-25,John 2:1-2. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO VERSE 2. HEBREWS 9-28. FOR ONE TO UNDERSTAND THE MISSION OF JESUS ONE MUST UNDERSTAND YHWH AND ***SIN***.

Isa 59:1-2 Eph 2:1,5 Ezek 18:4,20 AND THIS ONE Rom 6:23.

the gospel of thomas was written AFTER the gospels of matt,luke,john and mark. i suggest you study the writings. in regards to reincarnation when jesus was transfigured in front of his disciples how come moses still looked like moses and elijah looked like elijah? if elijah and john were the same why didnt the disciples recognize and call him john? the next post i make will destroy your bible jesus reincarnation theory.

how is this period missing? jesis simply grew up around his people. why does it need to be documented?

thats right and in order to be a nazarene what must GROW UP in nazareth. to be a nazarite one must adhere to the vow. the bible simply states that he lived in subjection with his PARENTS please read matt 2:23, and the book of luke.

i suggest you study COPTIC writings and WHERE the gospel of thomas was found (and with what) b4 you say that they are NOT gnostic.

i have indeed shown that jesus never preached reincarnation and i will do it again. the gospel of thomas doesnt show jesus teaching anything. it contains no narrative and yes it is gnostic. same with the essenes.

i see you know ***NOTHING*** ABOUT JEWS AND JUDAISM. IF YOU DID YOU WOULD KNOW THAT EATING LAMB AT PASSOVER IS ****REQUIRED****!!!!!!! ON WHAT GROUNDS DO YOU SAY THAT LUKE 24 MAY NOT BE ACCURATE?

I GAVE YOU MY EVIDENCE. HE IS A NAZARENE. GREW UP IN NAZARETH, NOT INDIA AND NO JEWISH WRITINGS (OR GREEK) PLACE HIM IN INDIA.

LMAO! SO HIM BEING THE SON OF GOD MAKES YOUR 1-4 POINTS NULL AND VOID? HE ATE MEAT.......DRANK WINE......THATS TWO OUT OF FOUR VIOLATED......

YOU ARE NOT *REQUIRED* TO EAT STEAK AT BLACK ANGUS. YOU **ARE** REQUIRED TO EAT LAMB (CERTAIN PART AND COOKED A CERTAIN WAY) DURING PASSOVER AND AT A CERTAIN TIME. PLEASE STUDY JUDAISM AND TORAH BEFORE YOU TYPE LUNACY.

I DONT "APPEAR" TO HAVE A PHYSICAL BODY. I HAVE A PHYSICAL BODY. I HAVE HAIR, I GROW OLDER , I GAIN OR LOOSE WEIGHT, IM FLESH AND BONE. HOWEVER I AM COMPRISED OF THREE PARTS. FLESH,SOUL AND SPIRIT.

ACTUALLY PEOPLE CONSIDERED HIS DOCTRINE NEW. WAS IT ALONG TEH LINES OF JUDAISM? YES. WAS IT JUDAISM? NO.

I CALL YOU WHAT YOU ARE. I HAVE USED NOTHING TO QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT. ITS YOU.

I HAVE POKED TOO MANY HOLES IN THIS DOCTRIIME TO BEGIN WITH.

YET YOU SAY THE FOLLOWING ABOUT ME

HMMMMMM THE APPLE DOESNT FALL TOO FAR FROM THE TREE HUH?

YET WHEN HE SPOKE OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN LAZARUS WAS PROHIBITED FROM COMING BACK....WHEN NICODEMUS ASKED ABOUT BEING BORN AGAIN JESUS EXPLAINED THAT IT WASNT PHYSICAL.

THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS DOES NOT *TEACH* ANYTHING.

THE BIBLE GIVES EXPLANATION TO THE ANGELS.

THE ANGELS IN THE BIBLE ARE *CREATED* BEINGS. SAME IN THE QURAN. THIS WOULD MAKE ANGELS AND THE DIETIES IN THE VEDAS *DIFFERENT*.

NEXT POST REINCARNATION.

:h:

n9newunsixx5150 · Jan 18, 2003

quote:
"YHWH is NOT the god of the muslims. they concepts and attributes are different. same with krsna and allah. 100% different."

You missed the point. They are different, you are right. But they are NOT 100% different. Fundamentally, they are speaking of the same absolute.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"so what you are saying is that this supreme being changes over time to suit the needs of others? that contradicts the bible....."

No. He is not saying this. It isn't that the supreme being changes over time, its that our understanding of the supreme being changes over time. God does not "change". For what does God have to change into if God is ALL?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"you are saying that jesus had a body that was 100% spiritual? i know BEFORE his coming that he had a 100% spiritual body. are you saying that he did not have a 100% flesh body? a yes or no would suffice and condemn you."

Yes and no. Jesus had flesh unlike our flesh. Our flesh is sinful, His was perfect. Also, you have already established that your (Heresy's) flesh is not you. Flesh is the illusion of the material world. You are not bound by your flesh. If you believed this, you would most likely be atheist.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"yes it is. why is it that when i ask people this question (9165150 included) they are stumped or avoid the issue? you are denying that jesus came in the flesh. you are denying that he had a body of physical flesh."

No one is stumped or avoiding the issue. Our answers lie within. Reconciliation is inevitable.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"2 JOHN 1:7 FOR MANY DECEIVERS HAVE GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD WHO DO NOT CONFESS JESUS CHRIST AS COMING IN THE FLESH. THIS IS A DECEIVER AND AN ANTICHRIST"

This is for people who wish to deny the physical existence of Jesus Christ all together. No one here is denying Jesus' existence physically or spiritually, **period**
Moving on...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"1 JOHN 4:1-31.BELOVED DO NOT BELIEVE EVERY SPIRIT, BUT TEST THE SPIRITS, WHETHER THEY ARE OF GOD; BECAUSE MANY FALSE PROPHETS HAVE GONE OUT INTO THE WORLD. 2.BY THIS YOU KNOW THE SPIRIT OF GOD: EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSESS THAT JESUS CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH IS OF GOD, 3 AND EVERY SPIRIT THAT DOES NOT CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN TEH DLESH IS NOT OF GOD. AND THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST,WHICH YOU HAVE HEARD IS COMING, AND NOW IS ALREADY IN THE WORLD."

(see my above response)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"BEFORE YOU REPLY WITH YOUR ANSWER I SUGGEST *YOU* LOOK UP THE WORD "SPIRIT" AND "FLESH" IN A STRONGS CONCORDENCE AND GREEK LEXICON."

I'll get to this. But, I do not have a concordance on me and I am out in the middle of the ocean. Nevertheless, you can not righteously say these bible excerpts pertain to us. You do not know us and you haven't a clue to what we're saying. Otherwise, if you did, you would have let go of this "confessing Jesus came in the flesh" thing. Your answer is already there. If you can't see it, LOOK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"SEE THE ABOVE. ELIJAH WENT INTO HEAVEN. ENOCH IS SAID TO HAVE WENT TO HEAVEN. THESE WERE NORMAL MEN."

And it is NORMAL for our nature to GROW. This should reconcile to you how these "normal" men ascended to Heaven.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"KEEP WORDSMITHING."

Lmao....
I didn't even write the paragraph pertaining to this response of yours and I completely understand the concept. Keep looking.
Reconciliation is inevitable...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"JESUS PREACHED ***CONTRARY*** TO WHAT THE OTHERS WERE PREACHING. THIS IS WHY MANY PEOPLE SAID "WHAT *NEW* DOCTRINE IS THIS?". WHAT HE WAS BRINGING WAS WAAAAAAAAY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE PEOPLE WERE USED TO HEARING."

Contrary, but still within the established parameters of the time and place. If people only know black and white in a specific place (and time), they adhere to white (for instance), and you attempt to preach "blue" to them; they will not understand and your message is insane. Jesus preached the contrary "black" rather than what was popularly believed (white). But, yet it was still within the parameters of the time and place he was preaching. Now do you understand what we are saying?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
"HE DIDNT FOLLOW PROTOCOL...."

Black and white, my friend...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

n9newunsixx5150 · Jan 18, 2003

Quote:
"YOU CAN DIE SPIRITUALLY. HOW? SIN. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. SIN IS DYING A SPIRITUAL DEATH. YOU ARE NO LONGER IN YHWH WHEN YOU SIN. YOU ARE IN REBELLION AGAINST HIM WHEN YOU DO IT. I CAN SEE THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF THIS. SPIRITUAL DEATH=CUT OFF FROM GOD/SEPERATED FROM GOD. IM***NOT*** TALKING PARTICLES AND ATOMS ETC ETC ETC."

Lets try to reconcile this like so:

Yes, one is "separate" from God when they sin. But, it is not that God left you, its that you left God. God is always right there for you whether you realize it or not. This "separation" of man from God is an illusion of relativity. Once one sees this and decides to rid oneself of sin they **realize** the unity. Spiritual death is our illusory separation from God. Salvation or enlightenment is our realization of unity. Spiritual death does NOT mean that the spirit is destroyed because the word “destroyed” is a physical concept. Either spirit is eternal or you have misinterpreted what spirit is (or what eternal is). God does not destroy spirit just as God does not destroy Himself. Ultimately, there is no separation. But, in the relative perspective we feel this separation to be a reality. When one lives only in light of the relative one is half-wise and will condemn himself because of his ignorance. To be in “rebellion” to God is an impossibility unless you believe that ignorance is a rebellion to truth. I would suggest to you that ignorance is not a rebellion to truth; rather, it is an obstruction. Sin is our (relative) separation, not our rebellion. It can be either one or the other, not both. You can not be separated from God and in rebellion to Him. To be separated from God is to be **obstructed** from his light. I have already spoke on subjects pertaining to “light versus darkness”. Darkness is not a “rebellion” to light, it is an obstruction. A weak obstruction at that. All a light has to do is be turned on in a room and the darkness is gone, there is no struggle. Just as God does not struggle against the devil; making satan unworthy of being thought of as God's opposition. All satan has is his ignorance of the truth; his "obstruction" of the light. This is, in no way, a power against God. For there is only ONE POWER and ignorance is the misuse of it. Humans turn this into a struggle because most of us dwell in a world of duality. Its always good versus bad and "us" versus "them". Once again, Darkness is not an entity in itself, it is the lack of light. Hence, the “lack” or ignorance of truth...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERESY · Jan 18, 2003

THE BIBLE And REINCARNATION

FIRST OFF @916 I HAVE YOU ON IGNORE. I DUST MY FEET FROM YOU AGAIN.

MOVING ON TO REINCARNATION.

THE BIBLE DOES *NOT* SPEAK ABOUT REINCARNATION AND IT NEVER DID. RESURRECTION? YES. REINCARNATION? NO.

HERE IS EVIDENCE (ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE).

Matthew 11:14 DEALS WITH JOHN THE BAPTIST BEING ELIJAH. THIS IS EXPLAINED IN Luke 1:17. JOHN IS TO COME IN THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIJAH. IT DOES NOT MEAN BEING REBORN AS ELIJAH BUT DEALS WITH MINISTRY AND DUTIES.

IN John 1:21 JOHN HIMSELF STATES THAT HE IS **NOT** ELIJAH. IF REINCARNATION WERE TRUE WOULDNT HE KNOW HE WAS ELIJAH?

SOMEONE SUGGESTED THAT HE DENIED THIS TO KEEP HIS LIFE......YET HE OPENLY DEFIED HEROD AND WAS THROWN IN JAIL BY HIM. HE WOULD OPENLY DEFY A MAN WHO HAD POWER TO KILL HIM YET HE WOULD BE AFRAID OF THE JEWS WHO FEARED HIM AND CALLED HIM A LUNATIC? IT MAKES NO SENSE.

SPEAKING OF ELIJAH IN 2 Kings 2:11 HE GOES TO HEAVEN WITHOUT DYING. IF ELIJAH IS JOHN WHEN DID ELIJAH DIE?

WHEN ELIJAH APPEARS IN Matthew 17:3 WHY IS HE RECOGNIZED AS ELIJAH AND NOT JOHN? THAT WOULD MEAN THAT ELIJAH CAME, DIED, WAS REINCARNATED AS JOHN, DIED AS JOHN BUT WAS REINCARNATED AS ELIJAH. THIS MAKES *NO* SENSE.

MOSES IS ALSO LISTED IN MATT 17:3. WHY ISNT HE REINCARNATED????

John 3:3 DEALS WITH BEING BORN AGAIN. NICODEMUS WONDERS IF IT MEANS PHYSICALLY BEING REBORN AGAIN (PHYSICALLY). IF REINCARNATION IS TRUE WHY DID JESUS *NOT* TELL HIM THAT A MAN MUST BE BORN OVER AND OVER? WHY DID HE MENTION THE SPIRITUAL IN VERSES 5-6?

John 9:1-3 DEALS WITH A MAN BEING BORN BLIND. IT DOES NOT DEAL WITH KARMA. NO ONE SINNED NEITHER THE MAN NOR HIS PARENTS.

Hebrews 9:27 STATES THAT IT IS APPOINTED FOR MAN TO DIE *ONCE* AND AFTER THIS THE JUDGEMENT. THIS CONTRADICTS MULTIPLE DEATHS AND MULTIPLE LIVES.

JESUS SPOKE OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN IN LUKE 16:19-31 . IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT JESUS TAUGHT OR A TRUE STORY THAT HE TOLD WHY WAS THE RICH MAN *DENIED* A SECOND CHANCE AT LIFE? IN VERSE 25 ABRAHAM STATES THAT THE RICH MAN RECIEVED ***GOOD*** IN **HIS** *****LIFETIME*****.

IN VERSE 26 THE RICH MAN IS **DENIED** A CHANCE TO GO BACK TO THE LAND OF THE LIVING BECAUSE OF A GULF.

IF REINCARNATION IS REAL WHY DID HE MISLEAD TEH PEOPLE AND TELL THEM A STORY OR PARABLE OR TRUE STORY ABOUT A MAN WHOW AS DENIED THE CHANCE TO COME BACK? NOT ONLY THAT BUT THE MAN WANTED TO COME BACK AS HIMSELF. NOT AS A FISH OR A SAINT OR ANYONE ELSE.

IF REINCARNATION IS REAL AND JESUS PREACHED IT WHY IS IT THAT WHEN HE RAISED THE DEAD, THE PEOPLE DIDNT REINCARNATE INTO NEW PEOPLE?

THE SAME GOES FOR EZEKIAL AND THE WIDOWS SON. WHY DIDNT THE SON REINCARNATE?

WHY DIDNT JESUS HIMSELF REINCARNATE INTO A NEW JESUS? WHY DID HE STILL HAVE THE MARKS OF HIS CRUCIFIXTION AFTER HIS RESSURECTION?

IF ANYONE BELIEVES THAT REINCARNATION WAS TAUGHT BY JESUS OR THE EARLY CHURCH OR THAT ITS FOUND IN THE BIBLE SHOW ME.

ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT REINCARNATION IS NOT IN THE BIBLE NOR WILL IT EVER BE IN THE BIBLE.

:h:

Vyasadeva · Jan 19, 2003

And yet all of them exist within the ONE SUPREME LORD. You are stuck on petty material differences.

I ***KNOW*** that KRSNA, ALLAH, and YHWH have different attributes and names. This is basic knowledge.

When I was a shorty I was known by a certain name and attributes by my teachers and friends. When I was older I was known by different names by new friends and new teachers and I was known by different attributes. And now I am known by different names and nicknames by my current friends, my girl, co-workers, etc.

Yet *I* have always been the SAME person! ***I*** have not changed. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. ALL that changes is the different PERCEPTIONS of Him due to DIFFERENT TIME and CIRCUMSTANCES.

NO!

GOD is UNCHANGING. CHANGE is something which takes place within TIME. God is timeless, eternal, therefore He NEVER CHANGES.

All that chages is OUR material perspectives of Him. Due to different times He is known in different capacities.

Your claim is that ONLY one view of Him is correct and that ONLY one particular group of people will reach Him. This is like me saying that ONLY my school teaches the correct knowledge of chemistry and everyone else is wrong.

NO, He did not have a 100% flesh body. Your assertion that my answer will condemn me is hilarious.

I did not say that Christ literally MEANS attraction. I said that when we say the Holy name Christos, Christ, Krsta, or Krsna, we are referring to the ALL-ATTRACTIVE Supreme Being.

Does your knowledge of Christ depend on what so-called greek scholars and theologians think about the semantics of Christ's name? Mine doesn't, and their supposed "ridicule" means less than a pile of dog shit mayn.

You are being either dishonest or ignorant. I did not say that Christ = Attraction. I said that Christ, being the representative of the ALL-ATTRACTIVE Supreme Lord, REPRESENTS that all-attractive potency of Him. Due to his Christ's representation of the Lord, people are ATTRACTED to Him.

You can stay caught up in useless semantics if you think that is indicative of actual knowledge, but such petty squabbles mean nothing.

Yup, and you can lead a horse to water but.....

Nonsense. If keeping blinders on your eyes helps you in understanding God then so be it. Unlike you I realize that God is not limited, therefore attaining Him is not limited to yours, or anyone's interpretation of "Christ", and it is not limited to Christ either.

What you can't seem to comprehend is that we are not "stumped" or "avoiding" the issue. We see the issue with clarity, while you are stuck on elementary "Christian" dogma and you cannot understand that flesh can be 100% spiritual. When you have actual spiritual vision you will see how this is possible.

What we can see is that you are attempting, rather pitifully, to boil all spiritual essence down to a loaded and bullshit question. Your question is purely nonsensical, and contrary to your opinion, it does not have the power with which to "condemn" anybody. Get over your ego.

Unlike you, I do not need STRONGS to tell me what flesh and spirit are. My knowledge is not limited by such semantic insanity as yours seem to be.

"Normal" meaning what? Are you normal? All man is a mixture of spiritual and physical. Man has the ability to become 100% spiritual. When a man is 100% spiritual, THEN he may enter into the spiritual world, if he is NOT 100% spiritual, then he can NOT enter. Both the 100% spiritual man and the 1% spiritual man are "normal".

Keep deluding yourself.

You are in error. Words do not have ONE specific meaning, the meaning of which "Heresy" is the ultimate authority on. And your STRONGS lexicon is ALSO NOT the final authority of all meanings of words.

Ok, but how does one do that? What activities can you engage in which would keep you ROOTED in the spirit?

On what basis can you make the claim that one who places KRSNA first is NOT walking in the spirit? The Bible? So what? The Bhagavad-Gita disagrees with your interpretation of it.

100% bullshit. You are in error. This is simply what you WANT to believe or have been conditioned to believe, Either way, you are wrong.

Nope.

No shit. But he also referred to the Torah and accepted the fundamentals of Judaism.

It could be Islam but HOW could it be Hinduism? Hindus were around BEFORE Jesus appeared!

You might not label yourself "Christian" or "Catholic", but it is clear you have the same closed minded exclusionary mentality as them. Both of you are perverting the true message of Jesus Christ.

And I have spoken with several. It doesn't go against scriptures, it goes against your preconceived notions and the poison dogma that the early "Christian" church established.

Yeah, and those who he was talking to were going to go back to the Pharisees and tell them what John said. Being killed is alot worse than being in jail, no?

I aint manipulating shit. The scriptures speak for themselves.

Vyasadeva · Jan 19, 2003

The numbers are not "OFF", they are simply DIFFERENT.

The conclusion is the same but they are using DIFFERENT equations. They ALL add up to God.

When I was 15 I had no girlfriend. (ALLAH)

When I was 18-23 I was fuckin with 3 bitches simultaneously. (YHWH)

Presently I have one girl. (KRSNA)

These are three different descriptions of ONE PERSON. They APPEAR to contradict themselves, but they are ALL DESCRIBING THE SAME PERSON, ME.

My birth name is Guillermo. Since I was about 4 I've been called Memo by my friends and family. My co-workers call me Slim. My girl calls me Baby. On the siccness my screen name is Vyasadeva.

How can all these add to being the same person? EASILY. DUE TO different TIME and CIRCUMSTANCES, **I** am known by DIFFERENT names and attributes. Yet **I** have not changed. **I** am the SAME PERSON regardless of what I am called.

GOD is the SAME PERSON, yet due to different TIME AND CIRCUMSTANCE, He has been known by different people to have different attributes. This DOES NOT mean that God changes His mind or changes His attributes, but that WE view Him differently because we exist within TIME.

Nonsense. Spirit is eternal. Since spirit is not existing within TIME, it cannot "die". Even as you sin you are not separate from God, you are blinded from seeing Him, but God is ALL, therefore He is present everywhere.

No it aint. That is just bullshit dogma used to control those with lesser intelligence.

I understand that when you sin you are in rebellion against Him. But I do not fall for that "spiritual death" bullshit, some of us aint that gullible. Spirit has no beginning, no middle, and no ending. HOW can that which is timeless, "die"? It is simply illogical and incoherent. I recognize the mind control techniques of the dogma you spewing. Yall are stuck in that narrow vision due to fear. Cats fear not being saved, and they fear this nonsensical "spiritual death".

I see that you do not really understand God. You can NEVER be separated from God. That is IMPOSSIBLE. God is ALL-PERVADING, and ALL-ENCOMPASSING, therefore there is not one thing in all existence which is "cut off/separated" from God.

The "separation" is only due to the perception of the sinner.

So what? Logic is your enemy? Do you know that God is present inside every atom?

I don't adhere to the Bible. I adhere to the Vedas. So if you can prove YOUR point with the Vedas I would acknowledge your message.

See above.

Who said that it did? The FACT is that his life during the years 13-30 are unaccounted for.

You don't see shit. Orthodox Jews normally eat lamb at passover but it is NOT required! I live near an orthodox Jewish community near Robertson/Pico in West L.A. and have had this conversation MANY times with different Jews. MOST do eat lamb but it is NOT required.

And since Jesus was preaching something different than standard Judaism, why do you assume that he DEFINITELY ate meat?

On the same grounds you use to say the Vedas are not accurate.

I never said he "grew up" in India. I never said he was not a Nazarene. There IS evidence which points to him having visited India and passing through many other countries. Does that mean he did? No. Does that mean he didn't? No.

No, Jesus is not a conditioned soul. WE ARE. Jesus is eternally liberated and eternally a 100% pure spiritual being. WE ARE NOT. Jesus is the Son of God, therefore he can do what he pleases. WE ARE NOT. Therefore we have rules we have to abide by.

So what? The Son of God is not under the control of material nature so he can do whatever he wants and still retain his perfection. WE ARE NOT HIM. We have rules to follow.

You are in error. Many orthodox Jews observe passover in that way, but it IS NOT REQUIRED.

Man you are confused.

YOU are not your body, YOU are the soul within. Your material body is nothing but a useless lump of matter. Without the spirit soul within it it has no life. When your body dies die, YOU are GONE from your body.

THEREFORE **YOU** are NOT flesh and bone. **YOU** DO NOT grow older. **YOU** DO NOT gain or lose weight. These are things which take place within material time, and the SOUL that YOU are, is eternal and unchanging.

Those things are all happening to YOUR BODY, which is DIFFERENT than the soul occupying it.

No you aren't. You are comprised of 2 parts. Flesh and spirit soul.

There is no difference between "spirit" and "soul". THey describe the exact same entity residing within your body. That spirit and soul separation is simply more nonsensical "Christian" dogma.

And I call you what you are. What are we fuckin 10 years old? Heresy is knows all, and I am a false Christ. Blah blah blah... You display ignornce and your brain must be crushing under the weight of that inflated ego you got.

LMAO! You don't even know what the "doctrine" is, much less poked any holes in it. All you have done is present your ignorant egotistical view of Jesus Christ and passed it off as some sort of spiritual knowledge.

What the fuck? You are comparing appled and oranges.

You already know the Bible's position on those subjects. NO ONE here is saying that the Vedas or the Koran is 100% identical to it. Since you already know the Bible's position, and I know the Vedic position, I will present that which I know about. Since you or I am not Musilm, I see no reason to spend time posting the Koran version of those subjects.

Unlike you however, I do not question the AUTHENTICITY of the Bible or the Koran. I KNOW that they all present TRUTH.

Your dismissal of everything outside the Bible is NOT a result of them not possessing TRUTH, but because you have your neat little preconceived ideas about God and Jesus, and in your delusion you have concluded that ALL other scripture is bogus.

It does not give the names of them, it does not describe their appearance and attributes, and it does not explain each of their functions in detail.

n9newunsixx5150 · Jan 19, 2003

@Heresy

You shouldn't get so offended. Running away isn't the way to deal with things. Although, it is not like you could ever hear me anyway. If your action was the result of our little sarcasm battle, then you need to lighten up my friend. It was all just for fun. Let me also point out that it was you who started the sarcasm. Whatever though, you have your prejudices and judgments against me. I will not be judged to this measure, but you will. Have a nice eternity...

n9newunsixx5150 · Jan 19, 2003

@Vyasadeva

Concerning Heresy's separation of spirit and soul:

A really good book which is, for the most part, based on Christianity is called, "The Science of Mind" by Ernest Holmes. It talks about soul and spirit, separately. It is pretty enlightening on the subject. It is backed by biblical concepts but not limited to them and concurs with much of eastern mysticism and religion. I am not going to go in depth right now, but I suggest picking up the book. Its about 670 pages, by the way. And its worth it if you haven't read it yet...

HERESY · Jan 19, 2003

no im not stuck on anything. allah has no begining. yhwh has no begining. what about krsna?

they are all different.

so let me get this straight. krsna went to being krsna and the demigods to becoming yhwh with a son to allah (who was ORIGINALLY part of a multiple god system) who has no son or partner.......this makes NO SENSE at all.

if ALLAH (actually HU-BAAL) says he has NO partners OR son yet YHWH says that he DOES how are they the same? keep in mind that ISLAM came AFTER judaism and christianity. so that is a contradiction.

only people who know chemistry can explain what it is or isnt. im not a chemist......i havent studied it.....so i cant tell you what chemicals to mix and what chemicals to leave out because they might cause something to explode. so if this is the case why are you and 916 saying what is and isnt when neither of you have studied islam (based on questions posed to you and answers)......

john 1:1-14 pay attention to verse 14.

make it sound good buddy. all i know is that i asked you what christ meant and you replied "ATTRACTION". end of discussion.

due to many translations, errors,
variations etc etc etc it would be WISE for one to study the greek,latin,hebrew and arabic and aramaic writtings (if possible).my knowledge comes from what I have ***studied*** AND what i have been TAUGHT.

here is what you said

so with that being said you either

a.) didnt know the answer to the question i gave you

b.) gave an answer that was irrelevent to the question (the sanskrit meaning)

c.) ignored the question altogether

d.) believe that christ and krsna (the words) have the same meaning

which one is it????????

im not squabbling with you or making personal attacks directed at you. if you feel its a squabble i wont even reply to the thread. i do not want confusuion.

you cant make them drink. which is why one must STUDY before they condemn something and say what it is or isnt......

can you list the verse i gave you? can you type them up and explain why they dont coincide with what you typed?

the flesh is flesh.....its dirt/clay/dust whatever you wanna call it. im stuck on elementry dogma yet you cant even tell me the meaning of christ. all you said was that it comes from christos and then you went on to explain krsna in sanskrit....

simply put YOU agree with the bible (so you claim) yet the bible does NOT agree with ANYTHING you have typed. no one is letting pride or ego get in the way. im simply calling you on what you are typing. your a grown man like i am. if you cant handle someone questioning your logic or reason........well.......just keep in mind about how many times i have attacked YOU personally and how many times you have attacked ME. keep it in mind.......

a strongs concordence is a good tool when studying scritptures and cannon. why? if greek or hebrew is NOT ones native/original language one must use something that translates it. however because i am familiar with greek and hebrew i DONT need to consort a strongs.......YOU however......you need one.

you can enter the SPIRITUAL world WITHOUT becoming 100% spiritual. just ask a wiccan. better yet ask a warlock where he is when he is inside a perfect circle.........NO ONE HAS A SPIRITUAL (GLORIFIED) BODY yet. this CONTRADICTS the ressurection.

i learned from the best...

so now the word has a different meaning........HAHAHAHA!!!!! since words DO have different MEANINGS its only RIGHT/LOGICAL/SANE to consort a DICTIONARY that explains WHAT the words are, HOW the words are used, WHAT people used the words WHEN the words were used and the ORIGIN of the words......when reading a BIBLE one MUST use a lexicon or strongs if they are trying to do SERIOUS studies.....

prayer,fasting,reading keeping the commandments. its SIMPLICITY. who cares about the BHAGAVAD GITA? its not something i adhere to. *STUDIED*? YES. adhere to? noooo waaay.

please read the bible (i have given you scriptures). who conditioned me? i tell people to LEAVE the church and read for THEMSELVES.......

study to show thyself approved.....for lack of knowledge my people perish.....

who said that?

i never said that he didnt refer to the torah. in fact what i said was the he referred to the torah but never referred to the vedas or other hindu writings....

they were around before he appeared yet he was supposed to have learned them......but NEVER once has he quoted them......

no. you are perverting the message. you are preaching ANOTHER gospel.....this is FALSE....

i made an entire post that dealt with reincarnation and how it cant be found in the bible.

Is Religion the Source of Morality?

Sicc OG

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Anti-feminist

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Sicc OG

Anti-feminist

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...