Is Religion the Source of Morality?

[miggidy]

Why do I discredit the vedas or anything like that?
I researched their origins and there isn’t anything solid supporting them to take them any more seriously then lets say, American Indian’s belief of nature.
Indigenous people tend to worship what ever surrounds them.
The Aztecs worshiped the Sun, Moon, and Stars and other idols.
The Sun was their supreme God, with good reason. It was the source of life.
There for, they cherished it the most.
Similar to the sacred hymns. I do feel they exist, they are great for medical purposes.
Who knows what other benefits they have, but I look at that no different then lets say “heat”. These vibrations are there, but I think it’s natural. It’s a subject science has yet to study. But I don’t see anything sacred about them. The Eastern people who were the pioneers of this “awareness” fall in the same category with western Indigenous people who view their resources as sacred….
I hope you I’ve made sense….
Do know that when you look at these people in a biblical perspective, it’s not documented that they have ever been God’s light hasn’t been shined on them.
As a believer it is your duty to illuminate them, but our ancestors didn’t get to them.
Making sense for them to go out and create their own deities and idols.
Ask me and not a pastor, priest, or minister, these people will be saved, no different than one who follows the bible. I don’t care what the guy at church may tell you,
Jesus clearly said that “other” sheep will be saved….
So it’s not like most ignorant people think,
the biblical version of God isn’t exclusive to it’s believers….

With all the research I’ve done, I have concluded that the bible is the ultimate truth.
The word…. If you have any facts that proves it other wise, please feel free speak on it….

Continue to read the bible and other religions, compare their teachings and their facts.
Compare them with life, and question everything. Never give up on finding your answers.
I am not a bible thumper, I am more of a Jesus thumper.
What ever you think of me, just know that you will find the ultimate truth as long as you have the desire to obtain it.
You will find yourself persecuted for speaking the ultimate truth as I am.
But it’s worth every minute of it.

I understand that you are approaching this whole thing from an open-minded perspective.
You know that there is a god, there for you look into all credible religion accounts of God. That is what you are doing by believing in both the bible’s claim and the
Vedic claims. I totally understand this approach.
But pick up the bible and read it.
It leaves no open windows, it clearly states that it’s the only scripture of God.
Don’t single me out calling me narrow minded and a bible thumper just because I’m shedding light on what the bible claims.
Doesn’t that make you a hypocrite? I mean honestly…
It’s written in there clearly, pick up the NIV version if you have trouble understanding it.
If you put your faith on the bible enough to accept Jesus’ divinity,
why don’t you accept the rest in the bible????
The bible makes a bold statement assuring the reader that it was the word, it is the word, and is the word that is to come.
If you question the claims of the bible then you should question its account of Christ because the whole book comes from the same source.
Don’t look at me or anyone who speaks the words of the bible, but look into yourself.
Bro if it’s not clear for you, try what I did. Ask God to shed more light on the subject.
Ask him to help you find the ultimate truth. Ask him with sincerity and desire and he WILL help you….

****Cont.****

 

[HERESY]

I understand what you are saying. I am not trying to make any implications about language other than words and names are just letters. Once again, I understand the spirit behind the name Yeshua. What I am talking about is also ***spiritual***.

by the way who said anything ABOUT YESHUA? MY INITIAL QUESTION WAS IN REGARDS TO THE WORD CHRIST AND CHRISTIANITY. EITHER YOU KNOW THE EMANING OR YOU DONT.

Perhaps you should look deeper.

LOOK DEEPER INTO WHAT? NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS. I LOOKED AND SAW THINGS THAT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO APPLY TO ONE OR TWO OF THE QUESTIONS.......OTHERS THAN THAT..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Also, I cannot tell you off hand what the bible says specifically about these subjects.

SO IF YOU CANNOT TELL EM OFF HAND WHAT TEH BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THESE SUBJECTS HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO SAY WHAT THE BIBLE IS AND ISNT?

If this answer satisfies you more, good.

LMAO!

I never said I was a biblical scholar.

NO ONE ON THIS BOARD HAS MADE THAT CLAIM. HOW IS IT RELEVENT TO YOUR RESPONSE?

I am reading it, but I have much further to go.

THATS GREAT. MAY THE RAUCH HAKODESH BLESS YOU.

Perhaps no one is idolizing his body, but I put that out to make clear my point

IF NO ONE IS DOING IT HOW IS IT VALIDATING YOUR POINT?

The name Jesus is not mentioned in Hindu writings, I assume since I have not read very much Hindu writings yet.

SO EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT THE HINDU WRITINGS (IF YOU SAID ANYTHING AT ALL) CAN BE CONSIDERED WHAT?

I know I could have overlooked answering that question given that it was rhetorical.

LMAO!

But, because you seem to misperceive it as "avoiding the topic", I did.

LMAO!

Well, consider that the bible does not fully express Jesus. Or that it may be incomplete. And, no one is "throwing out" source material.

SO IN OTHER WORDS CONSIDER YOUR THEORY?

Well, consider that the bible does not fully express Jesus. Or that it may be incomplete. And, no one is "throwing out" source material.

IN REGARDS TO *THIS* DISCUSSION YOU *CANNOT* USE SOMETHING OUTSIDE THE BIBEL TO DESCRIBE WHATS IN THE BIBLE. THATS WHAT YOU ARE DOING. A MUSIC BOOK THAT HAS CHORDS WILL SHOW CHORD PROGRESSIONS,SCALES,FREQUNCIES OF NOTES ETC ETC ETC......YOU CANNOT READ A BOOK ON *MIXING* AND GET AN IDEA OF CHORDS. YES THEY BOTH PERTAIN TO MUSIC BUT THEY BOTH CONTAIN DIFFERENT INFO TO DIFFERENT *ELEMENTS* OF MUSIC.

SO LETS SAY OUR MAIN GOAL IS MUSIC (GOD). DO WE TAKE BITS AND PIECES FROM THE CHORD BOOK AND COMBINE IT WITH THE MIXING BOOK? OR DO WE FIND A BOOK THAT EXPLAINS *ALL* ASPECTS OF MUSIC?

TAKE THE VEIL OFF YOUR EYES.

I stated that the bible is a product of Jesus. How can one decide that his life is completely embodied in the bible when it was the bible which was inspired by him? Suggesting this is like for me to read your interview you are going to do with that Vallejo newspaper and assuming that this article must embody all multi-dimensional characterisitics of this man known as Heresy.

WHO SAID THAT THE LIFE OF JESUS IS COMPLETELY EMBODIED IN THE BIBLE? DID I SAY THAT? WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT IT? YES YOU STATED THAT THE BIBLE IS A PRODUCT OF JESUS........AND????

Once I have a better knowledge of the bible these truths will be further reconciled.

WELL WHY DONT YOU READ IT B4 U SAY WHAT IT IS OR ISNT?????

And because I cannot quote the bible word for word doesn't mean that I am completely in the dark on the topic.

WHO CARES ABOUT QUOTING THE BIBLE WORD FOR WORD? ALL I ASKED WAS THAT *YOU* USE THE BIBLE TO BACK *YOUR* VIEWS. YOU SAY THE BIBLE WAS INSPIRIED BY JESUS RIGHT? WHY DONT YOU USE IT TO PROVE YOUR POINT? IF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT THE BIBLE IS TRUE WHY CANT YOU USE IT?

If you have something contrary to say, say it. I invite you to quote the bible if you feel I have missed the point of the teachings. The only difference, it seems, is that I *also* read in between the lines.

MORE GAMES.

Studying it or not will not give me absolute fact that it is or not.

LMAO!

I was only **suggesting** it MAY be incomplete to make a point.

WHAT POINT WERE YOU TRYING TO MAKE?

I do not think **truth** begins and ends within a single book.

OK THATS GREAT FOR YOU BUT WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT THAT? THATS ALL IM ASKING. YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS AND THAT THE BIBLE IS INSPIRED BY HIM. PLEASE USE THE BIBLE TO EXPLAIN YOUR STATEMENT. DOES YOUR WAY OF THINKING CONTRADICT THE BIBLE? CAN YOU USE THE BIBLE TO SHOW THAT TRUTH BEGINS AND ENDS WITH YHWH?

I know that many of the teachings of various other doctrines can be reconciled with the bible.

SO RECONCILE YOURS.

I do not adhere to the idea that "one doctrine replaces another".

THEN YOU DO *NOT* ADHERE TO THE BIBLE 100%.

Also, I never said it wasn't credible. When I suggest it being "incomplete" I am only speaking of the possibility that you may be missing "truths" that you did not see before.

HOW CAN YOU SAY IF SOMETHING IS INCOMPLETE IF YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT?

And, if I can reconcile some truths between other faiths, then why can't I find more. Why must the common points between faiths be overlooked?

LMAO!

:H:

 

[miggidy]

I never said any such thing you non reading muthafucka. Krsna is ETERNALLY the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I never said anything about Him "retiring". You have NO IDEA about the intricacies involved or the purposes of His various incarnations, so do not make yourself look like such a fool by speculating on shit you don't know about.
[/B]

Yes that is what you said, but we also know that Krishna was a man at first.
I asked why hasn’t he reincarnated and you answered that he is now the Supreme Personality of God. You made that statement credible by your subconscious act.
So it is safe to say that Krishna doesn’t reincarnate any more because he’s now moved on to other things.
Hey let me ask you something….
Tell me about the Vedic Gods, Indra, Agni, Soma, Varuna, Mitra, and Surya.
The Goddesses Usha, Saraswati, Aditi, and Apas.
I thought that the Vedas taught that there is only one God.
But yet they have all these deities, what’s up with that?
They share one thing in common with the ancient Greeks, and that is idols….

Damn mayn you are fuckin killin me. Sound WAVES and Sound VIBRATIONS are exactly the same fuckin thing!
[/B]

Really, you didn’t know this?
Ummmm…. Ok, you’re shooting from the hip again but I’ll be nice this time….
I’ll let you do the talking as you are shooting yourself in the foot.
Waves and vibrations are 2 completely separates things. Look it up….

Yeah dumb ass, *WE* need air to speak. Do you think that God NEEDS air to speak? Why would you assume that God *needs* anything at all? Since God is full and complete within Himself, He does not NEED anything in order to DO anything. All is carried out by His WILL alone.
How do you know God has no vocal chords? Dog you really ARE just making this shit up as you go aren't you? [/B]

Again you shoot from the hip. And this is very ironic coming from a person who claims to have an open mind, and who also claims to think transcendentally. God consists of 3 parts, God in spirit which is the Holy Spirit, the Living God which is the Christ, and God the father which I have no clue as to what he is. We only know of the spiritual and physical side of him, the other side is a mystery and is something that we cannot even begin to understand. In the days of the creation, Genesis states that the spirit of god was hovering over the waters. So it’s safe to say that the Holy Spirit is the one who spoke, and he happens to be in spiritual form, not in flesh form as you imply him to be.

Your ignorance is mesmerizing. Obviously you have never read the Vedas, or you would know that there are 4 regulative principles that one needs to follow in order to progress in spiritual life.

1 - No meat eating
2 - No illicit sex (sex for pleasure)
3 - No gambling
4 - No intoxication (drugs/alcohol)

Now ask yourself dummy, which of these principles do you violate every day? I would bet at least 3 of them. So once again your claim that all other religions compared to the Bible as being "very free" is seen to be more misinformation from the well of ignorance you seem to be tapped into. [/B]

Good, now since you believe in the divinity of Christ, compare that to the teachings of Christ written in the beginning of Matthew. This is very simple and does not cover much. Some of the stuff is even in contradiction with the bible. Proving my point that the Vedic deities think very different than Allah and the Christian God.

Yes, Jesus said that, and it is true. But what you have painfully shown is that you have ZERO understanding of the difference between the spiritual being that Christ eternally *IS*, and the temporary material body of flesh that was named Jesus.
Christ was not placing emphasis on his material body, but since you don't have any spiritual understanding, you interpret that quote from Jesus as a demand to believe in his flesh body, rather than the glorious affirmation of the divine spirit soul residing in each of us which is eternally light, and truth. [/B]

You totally missed my point. I was trying to say that Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to eternal life.

You don't even know what my beliefs are fool! Hahahhaa man all you know is that you can't pigeonhole me, and since you have no idea about the transcendental knowledge described in the Vedas, all you can do is make yourself look like a lil whiny ass girl and claim that they are "myth" and "bullshit".

You are just like that Jehova's Witness bitch that came to my door a few weeks ago. Yall both got your mind made up, and instead of being receptive to differing viewpoints, all you want to do is force the Bible down everyone's throats. I already have a Bible, and I comprehend it perfectly well. There is "milk" and "meat" in the Bible, and the bullshit you have been posting is all nonsense which leads me to believe that you can't even grasp the simple "milk" teachings.

Since all your posts are just repetitious rhetoric about me needing to ONLY believe the Bible, and ONLY believe in Jesus, I guess I'm bout done with this exchange with you. When you ready to talk about some real spiritual shit and transcendental knowledge, gimme a holla.

And n9neWUNsixx5150, it is good to see that there are cats with truly open minds here, unlike this kid who claims to be so openminded, yet his words display a mentality of the exact opposite. You explained perfectly the way a person can believe in two things and not have them contradict each other.

It is only the subjective personal opinion of weak minded cats like miggidy, who try to make God into a mutually exclusive thing. They say He is ONLY found in the Bible and Jesus, and that everything else CANNOT be real knowledge of God. Sincere souls can easily understand that since God is unlimited, He cannot be limited to any one book or dogma. A person who tries to pop that ole "ONLY the Bible" shit is obviously an unenlightened individual who simply WANTS it to be "only the Bible".
Peace. [/B]

Like I said, don’t try to single me out here. You are a hypocrite for stating that you believe in Jesus but then you rebuke the rest of the story. I am not like a J.W. pushing anything on you. I simply state the truth. I am not weak minded in any way, it is you whom are at a dead lock in your search for God. Follow my advice and keep searching….

Peace,
Miggidy

 

[HERESY]

Well as you know, that is contradictory because Jesus clearly states all through out the gospel that he is the only way.
Now if you were to look at the whole picture from outside, in a perspective of one who believes in God, then it is safe to assume that the Vedas, the bible and the Quran speak of the same God.
That's what I thought at first when I started digging info on religion. I found that Krishna, Allah, and the biblical God are all different. They are similar but have their own characteristics.
And they are separated by these characteristics, the biblical God would never say the things Allah says, and Allah would never agree with Krishna. Research their teachings, and you will see that they all have similar philosophies, but are quite distinct. I totally understand that you guys believe in God, judging by the way you guys are searching for him through the many religions of the world. But to say that you believe in the divinity of Christ is taking this too far. Why? If you believe in Christ, then it means that you believe in the New Testament's account of his life. And the New testaments account of God is different then the teachings of any other religion. There for you are contradicting yourself.

THIS CANNOT BE DISPUTED. THIS IS 100% TRUTH.

:h:

 

[miggidy]

Heresy bro,

The only ones who would think otherwise are those who lack knowledge regarding the subject.

Just give these cats a day or 2 to think of a response LOL!

Peace,
Miggidy

 

[Vyasadeva]

Well as you know, that is contradictory because Jesus clearly states all through out the gospel that he is the only way.
Now if you were to look at the whole picture from outside, in a perspective of one who believes in God, then it is safe to assume that the Vedas, the bible and the Quran speak of the same God.
That's what I thought at first when I started digging info on religion. They are similar but have their own characteristics.
And they are separated by these characteristics, the biblical God would never say the things Allah says, and Allah would never agree with Krishna. Research their teachings, and you will see that they all have similar philosophies, but are quite distinct. I totally understand that you guys believe in God, judging by the way you guys are searching for him through the many religions of the world. But to say that you believe in the divinity of Christ is taking this too far. Why? If you believe in Christ, then it means that you believe in the New Testament's account of his life. And the New testaments account of God is different then the teachings of any other religion. There for you are contradicting yourself.

THIS CANNOT BE DISPUTED. THIS IS 100% TRUTH.

No it isn't, it's opinion and I can dispute it using 1/1,000,000th of my brain power.

Well as you know, that is contradictory because Jesus clearly states all through out the gospel that he is the only way.

Do you mean the flesh-body named "Jesus", or the spirit soul that "he" actually is? Christ is an eternally liberated soul, he NEVER was the body known as "Jesus", and he was NEVER under the influence of material nature like we are. He *appeared* to be a normal man with a material body for our benefit. The physical body of Jesus is *different* from the spirit soul known as Logos, or Christ. And the spirit soul that "you" are is not the name "miggidy" or whatever your real name is. Jesus was a liberated soul and we are conditioned souls. He saw with perfect spiritual vision and we see with imperfect material vision. All the different names you have been known by in your life are being mistakenly applied to your material body, which is the covering of your spirit soul. Jesus's knew the distinction between the material body and the spirit soul perfectly, and his message is that you MUST come to awaken to know that spirit soul exists and know the relationship between it and the Supersoul, God, and when you do, you will KNOW the truth, the light and the way. You will KNOW that the greatest commandment is to LOVE God with all your heart, mind, and soul. And that **KNOWLEDGE** of the divine exalted position of Jesus Christ will replace the "faith" you once leaned upon.

 

[Vyasadeva]

I found that Krishna, Allah, and the biblical God are all different. They are similar but have their own characteristics.

OF COURSE YOU DID! They are different descriptions of the same Supreme Being. There is only ONE Supreme Being, and due to different time and circumstances, He has been described and known in different ways by different people.

Jesus appeared for a certain group of people. Jesus was Jewish. Therefore, Jesus preached in a way which was acceptable to that particular group of people at that time. If Jesus appeared and spoke of Krsna, no one would have known what he was talking about. Because they were different civilizations, and life was largely spent within one's immediate area, it is only logical that different societies would have different literatures and understandings of God. God is the Supreme Truth, so it is within this all-encompassing Absolute Truth that all the relative truths of the different religions coincide. We cannot see it perfectly due to our imperfect vision, but because it ALL emanates from God, there is doubtless perfection in His plan.

What is either of yours opinion on the evidence which points to Jesus travelling to India during his missing period and after his crucifixion? Jesus lived in India There are records of his having resided in Tibet, Turkey, and Persia. What about the Gospel of Thomas and the Essenes, which was rejected by the early Christian church because it's teachings on reincarnation threatened the church's power and influence? Do you know about St. Origen, one of the greatest writers and most respected figures of early Christianity, having his entire opinions and literature declared "heresy" in 553 A.D. by the 2nd Council of Constantinople because of his lucid expositions on karma and reincarnation?

It is obvious that the original teachings of the Bible and of Jesus himself have been changed, because those concepts presented a problem of control that early "Christianity" thrived on. If a person does indeed take on another body while in this material plane, then it seems to minimize the "salvation" element that so-called "Christianity" offers, and minimizes the importance of the "Christian" church. Modern day Christianity is not even about "salvation" anyway, it is about paying for a ticket. This is why it is the most popular "religion" in the world. Like everything else, it is easy and for sale. The whole thing is built on "belief" and "faith". But beliefs and faiths may change. You may have faith in a certain music program. Then later if the original program shows insufficiencies or another program is superior to it, your faith may change to the superior product. So faith is not absolute. TRUTH, however, is changeless. Knowledge of the truth, is not subject to change or variation. Truth is truth.

"Salvation" in general is for those who really don't understand the workings of things spiritual. If a son goes out and commits crime after crime, murder after murder, and then when finally caught, he points to his father and says "My father will pay for the crimes I committed", does this make very much sense to the law? NO. Nature's law is absolute and nondiscriminatory, and as ye sow, so shall ye reap. Gravity holds a "jew" to the earth the exact same as it holds a "muslim". If you think that Jesus will take away all your sins by believing in him, then why should you and why would you ever refrain from sinning? REAL "salvation" is known when one becomes transcendentally situated, and he will then know as Lord Jesus knew, that it is the Supreme Lord alone who is the only giver of salvation and liberation. Jesus was empowered by the Lord and thus he worked tirelessly for that purpose, doing everything he could to spread knowledge and love of Him.

The appearance of Jesus was even foretold in the Vedas, which were written 3,000 years before he appeared. Jesus is even described in the Vedas as Isha Putra, meaning the Son of God.

This is from the Bhavishya Purana: (Bhavishya means "future", and Purana means "history". Translated, this book is known as "The History of the Future")

"Once upon a time the subduer of the Sakas went towards Himatunga and in the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesh - the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailash mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man's complexion was golden and his clothes were white."

"The king asked, 'Who are you sir?' 'You should know that I am the Son of God', he replied blissfully, and 'am born of a virgin.'"

"'I am the expounder of the religion of the Mlecchas and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth.' Hearing this the king inquired, 'What are religious principles according to your opinion?'"

"Hearing this question of Salivahara, Isha putra said, 'O king, when the destruction of the truth occurred, I, Mashiach the prophet, came to this country of degraded people where there are no rules and regulations. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood'."

"Please hear Oh king which religious principles I have established among the mlecchas. The living entity is subject to good and bad contaminations. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct and performance of japa. By chanting the holy names one attains the highest purity. Just as the immovable sun attracts, from all directions, the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the solar region, who is fixed and all-attractive, attracts the hearts of all living creatures. Thus by following rules, speaking truthful words, by mental harmony and by meditation, Oh descendant of Manu, one should worship that immovable Lord'."

"Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the Mlecchas' own faith and thus my name became 'isha-mashiach' (Jesus the Messiah)."

"After hearing these words and paying obeisances to that person who is worshipped by the wicked, the king humbly requested him to stay there in the dreadful land of Mlecchas."

I think this is pretty convincing evidence. It is very noteworthy that it says Jesus, "who is worshipped by the wicked". Now remember this was written 3,000 years before Jesus appeared, yet it accurately describes the class of most of the people who pretend to speak for God through Jesus.

Mlecchas means meat eaters, and those who do not follow the spiritual principles described in the Vedas. Jesus CLEARLY appeared and preached amongst a very degraded Mleccha society, and the situation is not different today 2000 years later.

So OF COURSE different literature and personalities describe God in different ways. Some need to be taught right from wrong, some need to be taught how to worship God properly, some need to even be taught that there exists a God.

Why does a school have an elevation in grading and level of sophistication with regards to education? Because the entry level class teaches the basics, and the advanced class learns the intricate workings.

God can be learned by anyone at any time. The Bible is the elementary level education of God, & is bonafide. It is for Mlecchas. Basically the Bible is telling you to be a good person, don't sin, believe in God and Jesus, and you're good to go. The Vedas are university level education, they are for people who already know there is a God and who believe in Him but who wish to learn the SCIENCE of Him. Anyone who is interested in Vedic literature 99% of the time already believes in Jesus and his divinity.

The "father who are in heaven" that Jesus spoke of is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has name, form, paraphernalia, is ultimately a person, and is eternally engaged in transcendental activities. The Vedas describe these activities, and because they are transcendental, they are not events taking place within "time". They are happening eternally and are not like our material activities, they are purely spiritual. Jesus walking the earth is an example of such transcendental activity. Jesus *appeared* to be a mortal man walking and talking, but that is the opinion of an unenlightened observer. Jesus is a 100% SPIRITUAL being, who appeared to us as one of us at a specific point in "time", yet the reality is that he has no beginning, no middle, and no ending, and neither do any of us. He came as one of us so that we may learn true SPIRITUAL knowledge from him and become AS he was, so that we may enter into the spiritual world at the time of our death.

Lord Buddha, Lord Caitanya, Lord Jesus Christ, there are many recorded instances of different 100% spiritual beings, being foretold in scripture and then appearing before us, each according to the different time and circumstance which necessitated their arrivals.

When Jesus arrived on the scene, God was thought of as a wrathful being, who desired animal sacrifices and was to be feared rather than loved. Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was, which he said was "to love the Lord with all thy heart, mind, and soul."

So just speaking about loving God was some way out shit at that time. But even though it caused problems and resulted in his own "death", he performed his duty out of pure love of God. These were some savage cats, who were not tryin to hear no "love of God" shit, so they "killed" Jesus.

Now compare that with the Vedic civilization, who perform loving service and worship of the Lord, from Deities to chanting, to prayer, dancing, and who do this because they are overcome with LOVE of Godhead. Jesus could *NEVER* have even tried to mention this type of worship of God, not because it is wrong, but because the atmosphere and mentality of the time was very base-level and barbaric.

 

[Vyasadeva]

I totally understand that you guys believe in God, judging by the way you guys are searching for him through the many religions of the world.

Then your judging is a little faulty. I know God exists, belief is for beginners. And you have no idea about me "searching through religions", all you know is that I questioned you for making baseless unfounded statements. Since I am not limited by the Bible like you are, you think I am "searching" for something you already have. The reality is that what you "have", is simply an illusion based on mental speculation.

But to say that you believe in the divinity of Christ is taking this too far. Why? If you believe in Christ, then it means that you believe in the New Testament's account of his life. And the New testaments account of God is different then the teachings of any other religion. There for you are contradicting yourself.

Let me try to explain this with math. 4 will represent God. As an objective entity, I believe God exists. I believe God = 4.

I know that 2+2=4. 2+2 represents the Bible. It is indisputable that the Bible is a legitemate word of God. If I am presented with an equation which *ALSO* results in 4, I will test it as needed. 1+1+1+1=4. 1+1+1+1 represents the Vedas. I see that it is possible to come to the conclusion 4 in more than one way. 1+3=4. 1+3 represents the Buddha.005+3.995=4. As we can see, there are countless ways with which to come to a truthful conclusion of 4, who = God. If one proposes that 2+3=4, due to our knowledge of 4, we will know that 2+3 is a faulty equation. You are saying that the Bible is the only way to get to 4. Basic logic and mathematics says otherwise.

Yes, it is correct that they are all different equations, or teachings, but the similarity is the conclusion of all philosophies, which is God.

 

[Vyasadeva]

But shouldn't believers of the Vedas be looking for facts to back up their beliefs?
I mean that they should be trying to spread their beliefs because they believe are legit. And it would make perfect sense to seek facts to back up their claims.

I've given 3 examples of where the Vedas predicted specific births and have been correct.

Also, you have to understand that the Vedas are transcendental knowledge. They are not like the Bible because they are not descriptions about material activities taking place within our conception of "time". They desribe timeless transcendental activities. The original source of the Vedas is Krsna, and they were transmitted by sacred mantra for millions of years, and when the age Kali came, the time demanded because of the degradation of the lifespan and memory of man, that they be written down, so the knowledge the Vedas contain is *not* subject to some notion of "historical" evidence. Yet History says that they are indeed the oldest writings in all the world. And somehow these 5,000 year old writings explained in super detail the workings of the atom, the astrology of the universe, the precise description of the soul and Supersoul, they predicted many different births of incarnations, they describe spiritual planets and the means to get there. These subjects are not concerned with any temporal arrangement of the material world, they are describing that which transcends material and spiritual.

If you remain stuck on some "historical evidence" as being proof of God, then you are in ignorance. As the wise teacher once said, "Look at the moon, don't look at the finger pointing at the moon."

Hey, I never said I majored in English LOL!
Naw bro, we’re the same age.
About the pigs now, well I used to be a pig that ate what “they” fed me.
Now I eat independently.
As for you, you have stopped eating their shit
but you’re looking and still haven’t found your next meal....

Hahha ay fair enough man, I'm glad you see that was just a metaphor. But where you're wrong is that I am not looking for anything. I already KNOW who God is and I do not need to search for Him. God is the totality of all that be. That means He is within me, and is all that is outside of me. Yet He is the Supreme Being and I am *part* of Him. Eternally connected to yet distinct from Him.

I want to apologize for snappin, I mean I can tell now that you do not fully understand the teachings of Jesus. There for I will ease off since you are not at my level yet. I mean, I only jumped on you because you claimed to believe in Jesus’ divinity.
I was hard on you but it was only because you claimed to understand Jesus.
But it’s my bad for assuming….

I shouldn't have spoke like that either, but it was just a response to similar speech. As far as me not "fully understanding" Jesus, that shit is hilarious. I understand the Supreme Being, and because of that I understand Jesus in a way you cannot fathom. However it is not about who understands what compared to another. But it is always those who have the least understanding who quickly make claims of others "not being at my level". I do not need to question others, because that does not help further my understanding.

 

[Vyasadeva]

Yes that is what you said, but we also know that Krishna was a man at first.

No you don't. You don't know any such thing. What is this "at first" nonsense? KRSNA is the eternally spiritual Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore He is never a "man at first". He is eternal, supernatural, spiritual, which means that He has no beginning. Since He has no beginning, He is never something "at first", He is ALWAYS that which He is.

I asked why hasn’t he reincarnated and you answered that he is now the Supreme Personality of God. You made that statement credible by your subconscious act.

No, I said He is eternally the Supreme Person. Stop trying to put these "at first" and "now" words in my mouth. I never said anything like that. You do not understand His incarnations in the first place, so it is not a logical question to begin with.

So it is safe to say that Krishna doesn’t reincarnate any more because he’s now moved on to other things.

No, that is ignorant to say, because Krsna is eternally incarnating.

Hey let me ask you something….
Tell me about the Vedic Gods, Indra, Agni, Soma, Varuna, Mitra, and Surya.

Indra is the demigod who is the King of Heaven.
Agni is the god of fire.
Soma is the moon god. Soma also means "nectar", because the moon is the source of the nectar and juice on our fruits and vegetables, and the moon is where the heavenly beverage soma-rasa is drank.
Varuna is the controlling deity of relishable juices. The mouth is the resting place of the tongue, which tastes all the different juices, and of which the controlling deity is Varuna.
Mitra is the controlling deity of the evacuating hole, or the anus. The evacuating substance and also the sensory organ are both under the shelter of the controlling deity.
Surya is the predominating deity of the sun.

The Goddesses Usha, Saraswati, Aditi, and Apas.

Usa is not a goddess, but she is a personality who caused a great fight between Lord Siva and Lord Krsna due to her promiscuity.
Sarasvati is the goddess of learning. She is worshipped by those who desire education.
Aditi is the mother of the twelve Adityas, and she is the mother of all demigods.
Apas means water, or the god of water.

I thought that the Vedas taught that there is only one God.

They do. Krsna is the source of all demigods.

Bhagavad-Gita Ch. 10 text 2: "Neither the hosts of the demigods nor the great sages know my origin, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages."

But yet they have all these deities, what’s up with that?

The deities are the controllers of material nature. They are all working under the supervision of the Supreme Lord. Just like the government has many departments all working under the direction of the president. Yet the president is not present in every department, so there are those whose job it is to carry out specific duties. The deities are the controllers of each of the elements we deal with in our lives. They are working for the Lord. We think that WE are the controllers and the doers of things, but that is all an illusion. Material nature is carrying everything out and we are simply observers.

So an enlightened person acknowledges that everything he enjoys is given by the demigods, and so he makes offerings to them and chants mantras in praise of them. A further enlightened person sees only the Supreme Lord as worthy of worship, and by such activity, ALL the demigods are thus pleased. The deities only have control and power due to the power being given to them by the Supreme Lord.

A person in darkness acknowledges nothing but himself and his actions are all motivated towards his personal sense gratification. He does not offer his food to the Lord nor does he worship Him. Mostly he prays for the Lord to improve his circumstances, instead of thanking Him for the things that he does have.

They share one thing in common with the ancient Greeks, and that is idols….

There is a difference. An idol has no spiritual presence. It is not authorized. An image itself is not necessarily an idol, but because you do not understand the spiritual, and how God can invest a material object with spiritual quality, you have no idea about what is "idol worship" and what is not. The mercy of the Lord is that in the Vedas His form may be known, and He explains that one who wishes to worship either the Supreme Lord or any of His demigods, may construct a deity for that purpose. It is not "idol" worship, what it is is that the Lord loves us so much and is so merciful to us, that He and the demigods will appear in a form before our eyes to accept our worship. It's not idol worship to have a cross with Jesus on it is it? No, because he is a spiritual being. The deities are the same, they are spiritual beings, and their spiritual power is transforms the material used to make the deity into yogamaya, or spiritual illusion. There is a science to it playa, but I see that it's just easier for you to say that everything outside of the Bible is "myth".

God consists of 3 parts, God in spirit which is the Holy Spirit, the Living God which is the Christ, and God the father which I have no clue as to what he is.

"I have no clue as to what He is". How surprising.

I am telling you that "God the Father" is KRSNA. I have knowledge of this fact. I have no need to search or look for or speculate about who "God the Father" is or say things like " I have no clue as to what he is" because *I KNOW HIM*. Yet you just showed your ignorance by saying "I have no clue as to what he is", and you try to act like I am lost and that I am "not at your level"? Man your level is that of misinformation and incomplete knowledge. I'm light years beyond it, my friend.

You totally missed my point. I was trying to say that Jesus made it clear that he is the only way to eternal life.

We are all eternal. It is the illusion of birth and death which confuses you and makes you think eternality can be "given". The anti-material particleof spiritual energy known as the soul is eternal, and every living being lives dut to the presence of that soul. Jesus did not point at his material body and say "Believe in this body so that you may have eternal life". That is YOUR interpretation. Jesus is an eternally spiritual being, as we all are. The difference between us and Jesus, is that we are CONDITIONED souls, conditioned to think we are our material bodies. And Jesus was a LIBERATED soul, who came to show us how to become liberated just as he was. By doing this he was "saving" us from living our lives in darkness.

You, just like most "Christians", really do not understand the difference between the material and the spiritual, and that is why you misinterpret the quotes of Jesus as threats or commands, rather than affirmations of truth.

Like I said, don’t try to single me out here. You are a hypocrite for stating that you believe in Jesus but then you rebuke the rest of the story.

"The rest of the story" is a fuckin pile of bullshit propaganda promulgated by the early Christian church, and is so perverted from the actual teachings of Jesus, there is no fuckin way in the world I am going to give a fuck about "the rest of the story." I know Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah and is a pure spiritual being, it is the fake dogma that has been created in his name that I have a problem with.

I am not like a J.W. pushing anything on you. I simply state the truth. I am not weak minded in any way, it is you whom are at a dead lock in your search for God. Follow my advice and keep searching….

You are not pushing anything, but you have the same mentality. She asked me to take a Watchtower, I said OK if you take a Bhagavad-Gita. She said no I can't accept that. If I shared her mentality why would she assume that I would want her book?

So you both are saying that I need to accept the Bible, but I already have one and I accept it as bonafide. So now you are not pushing the Bible on me, you are pushing *your spin on it* on me and you are telling me what I need to believe about it. Then you are saying that I have to ONLY believe the Bible and Jesus. Don't you see how you are pushing BELIEFS and not TRUTH? I am not interested in beliefs because I know and can provide TRUTH, which is eternal, and which is superior to BELIEF, which is temporary.

Both the Vedas and the Bible describe things which are supernatural and mystical and spiritual. For you to claim that one is "true" and the other is "false" is pure speculation, based on a pitifully limited area of experience.

You using "historical" evidence to prove God, who is above all things historical and material, is like the frog measuring the ocean based on the well he is in. Those whose minds are on the transcendental plane can see how God creates infinite universes, and see that these infinite expansions of infinite material universes exist as only 1/4 of God's total spiritual energy.

You keep saying that I am "searching" for God, and this is far from the truth. I KNOW who God is, I experience Him every minute, I am within Him as all creation rests within Him, yet He is also outside me and distinct. I know who the Supreme Person is. So I am not "searching" or "looking through religions" like you insist on saying.

All I have done, is question your illogical and unfounded dismissal of Vedic scriptures, because unlike you I actually know what they are about, and I know that they are the word of God, just as the Bible is. You have to resort to trying to discredit other scripture, when I can see any scripture and see how it is describing the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

quote:
"Look at the moon, don't look at the finger pointing at the moon."



I remember that. Its Zen. Something along the lines of: "It takes a finger to point at the moon, but once the moon is recognized you may forget about the finger."
Forgot who said it though....

 

[Vyasadeva]

"You and others like you
Still listen to the Dharma with the conditioned mind,
And so the Dharma becomes conditioned as well,
And you do not obtain the Dharma-nature.
This is similar to a person
Pointing his finger at the moon
To show it to someone else.
Guided by the finger,
The other person should see the moon.
If he looks at the finger instead and mistakes it for the moon,
He loses not only the moon but the finger also. Why?
Because he mistakes the pointing finger for the bright moon."
-- The Buddha

 

[HERESY]

No it isn't, it's opinion and I can dispute it using 1/1,000,000th of my brain power.

i tell you what. if you tell a muslim that krsna is allah you will be stoned to death. if you tell a jew that krsna is the same as yhwh he will ridicule you. if you study the TRAITS, ATTRIBUTES, WORDS and COMMANDMENTS of each god you will see that EACH of them have SOME things in common but EACH of them differ in the following areas:

GOD

CREATION OF THE WORLD

MAN

SIN

SALVATION

DEATH

these points are ALL different when it comes to the 3 gods listed above.

Do you mean the flesh-body named "Jesus", or the spirit soul that "he" actually is?

jesus is a spirit soul? in the old testament the messiah was NEVER portrayed as an impersonal force or energy. all prophecies concern a man who would lead his people out of bondage and reign on davids throne.

Christ is an eternally liberated soul, he NEVER was the body known as "Jesus", and he was NEVER under the influence of material nature like we are.

first of all i DOUBT that you know what the term christ means. its NOT a name its a TITLE. as soon as YOU realize this you will realize that you are in error. yeshua was under the SAME laws of man. he ate as a man, drank as a man, slept as a man, was tempted as a man etc etc etc.

are you saying that jesus did not come in the flesh? your answer will condemn you.

The physical body of Jesus is *different* from the spirit soul known as Logos, or Christ.

the physical body (flesh) was REQUIRED. once again you are taking the word christ out of context.

and his message is that you MUST come to awaken to know that spirit soul exists and know the relationship between it and the Supersoul, God, and when you do, you will KNOW the truth, the light and the way

how does one do this?

OF COURSE YOU DID! They are different descriptions of the same Supreme Being. There is only ONE Supreme Being, and due to different time and circumstances, He has been described and known in different ways by different people.

if this is the case how is it that you have a caste system and muliple gods in the hindu doctrine/dogma/religion?

Jesus appeared for a certain group of people. Jesus was Jewish. Therefore, Jesus preached in a way which was acceptable to that particular group of people at that time.

i agree. so if he had PRIOR knowledge to who HE was and who THE SUPREME being was why didnt he explain krshna? that is IF krshna is the supreme being.

What is either of yours opinion on the evidence which points to Jesus travelling to India during his missing period and after his crucifixion?

the bible says he was carried away in the clouds and seated at the right hand of the father. if he went to india that would mean that he FAILED his mission.

There are records of his having resided in Tibet, Turkey, and Persia. What about the Gospel of Thomas and the Essenes, which was rejected by the early Christian church because it's teachings on reincarnation threatened the church's power and influence? Do you know about St. Origen, one of the greatest writers and most respected figures of early Christianity, having his entire opinions and literature declared "heresy" in 553 A.D. by the 2nd Council of Constantinople because of his lucid expositions on karma and reincarnation?

i would consider these gnostic and heresies. please show me with a torah or bible (old and new testament) cases of reincarnation. reincarnation as in being born into a new body or being born into the body of a praying mantis. you cant.

It is obvious that the original teachings of the Bible and of Jesus himself have been changed, because those concepts presented a problem of control that early "Christianity" thrived on.

can you please tell me who changed them? after that explain to me what you mean by "early christianity".

If a person does indeed take on another body while in this material plane, then it seems to minimize the "salvation" element that so-called "Christianity" offers, and minimizes the importance of the "Christian" church.

did jesus ever preach/teach taking on another physical body?

Modern day Christianity is not even about "salvation" anyway, it is about paying for a ticket. This is why it is the most popular "religion" in the world. Like everything else, it is easy and for sale.

i agree.

The whole thing is built on "belief" and "faith". But beliefs and faiths may change. You may have faith in a certain music program. Then later if the original program shows insufficiencies or another program is superior to it, your faith may change to the superior product. So faith is not absolute. TRUTH, however, is changeless. Knowledge of the truth, is not subject to change or variation. Truth is truth.

truth is truth so what is truth? is yeshua coming in the flesh and dying for sins truth? or is krshna truth? is allah truth? also faith PRECEDES ones belief. keep that in mind

"Salvation" in general is for those who really don't understand the workings of things spiritual.

you are in error. SIN made SALVATION a necessity. SALVATION is a GIFT from GOD.

If you think that Jesus will take away all your sins by believing in him, then why should you and why would you ever refrain from sinning?

i encourage you to read the ENTIRE book of romans as each chapter will answer your question.

The appearance of Jesus was even foretold in the Vedas, which were written 3,000 years before he appeared. Jesus is even described in the Vedas as Isha Putra, meaning the Son of God.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/JesusNAM.html

jesus NEVER quoted from the vedas or preached reincarnation yet he quotes the old testament MANY times. if jesus grew up in india and went to india why does he have a JEWISH background? why is everything about him "jewish"? in fact why does the bible state that he grew up in the mid east among his kin? why is he known as the carpenters son?

jesus taught that god was PERSONAL and not some FORCE.
ressurection and NOT reincarnation
monotheism instead of polytheism
equality instead of the hindu caste system

jesus never stepped foot in india.

Mlecchas means meat eaters, and those who do not follow the spiritual principles described in the Vedas. Jesus CLEARLY appeared and preached amongst a very degraded Mleccha society, and the situation is not different today 2000 years later.

was jesus a meat eater? he is mentioned in the vedas (as some have claimed) yet he doesnt follow the first rule.......so how did he become the most enlightened if he could not refrain from swallowing fish, beef,lamb etc etc etc???? not to mention him drinking (not drunk)

1 - No meat eating
2 - No illicit sex (sex for pleasure)
3 - No gambling
4 - No intoxication (drugs/alcohol)

jesus has just violated 2 rules.

So OF COURSE different literature and personalities describe God in different ways. Some need to be taught right from wrong, some need to be taught how to worship God properly, some need to even be taught that there exists a God.

you worship god in spirit and truth. an act of worship is your WALK.

God can be learned by anyone at any time. The Bible is the elementary level education of God, & is bonafide. It is for Mlecchas. Basically the Bible is telling you to be a good person, don't sin, believe in God and Jesus, and you're good to go. The Vedas are university level education, they are for people who already know there is a God and who believe in Him but who wish to learn the SCIENCE of Him. Anyone who is interested in Vedic literature 99% of the time already believes in Jesus and his divinity.

all this yet jesus never practiced the vedas.........nor did he quote from them.

Jesus *appeared* to be a mortal man walking and talking, but that is the opinion of an unenlightened observer. Jesus is a 100% SPIRITUAL being, who appeared to us as one of us at a specific point in "time", yet the reality is that he has no beginning, no middle, and no ending, and neither do any of us. He came as one of us so that we may learn true SPIRITUAL knowledge from him and become AS he was, so that we may enter into the spiritual world at the time of our death.

where in the bible can you show me that jesus is a 100% spirit being? do you DENY the fact that jesus came in the flesh? just curious....if we have no begining or end where was adam before he had a blody of flesh? in the scriptures i have only read of THREE distinct beings with no begining,middle or end. YHWH,YESHUA and RAUCH HAKODESH. so we existed with god before the world was created?

Lord Buddha, Lord Caitanya, Lord Jesus Christ, there are many recorded instances of different 100% spiritual beings, being foretold in scripture and then appearing before us, each according to the different time and circumstance which necessitated their arrivals.

yeah and jesus said that many false christs would come after him.........

I am telling you that "God the Father" is KRSNA.

so jesus is the son of krsna? if krsna is god the father who or what is BRAHMA???



:H:

ps excuse all typos

 

[Vyasadeva]

i tell you what. if you tell a muslim that krsna is allah you will be stoned to death. if you tell a jew that krsna is the same as yhwh he will ridicule you.

So what? Their reactions do not determine or have anything to do with TRUTH. I can say that water is dry, does that make it truth?

jesus is a spirit soul? in the old testament the messiah was NEVER portrayed as an impersonal force or energy.

Yes he is. The soul is not impersonal, nor did I say that it is. It has a body and attributes.

first of all i DOUBT that you know what the term christ means.

Your doubt means what? Christ comes from the greek word Christos. When an Indian person calls on Krsna, he often says Krsta. Krsta is a Sanskrit word meaning "attraction". So when we address God as "Christos" "Christ", "Krsta", or "Krsna", we indicate the same all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead.

its NOT a name its a TITLE.

I know it is not a name. "Jesus" was the name given to the body Christ appeared as.

What TITLE does the word Christ signify?

yeshua was under the SAME laws of man. he ate as a man, drank as a man, slept as a man, was tempted as a man etc etc etc.

He appeared to be under these laws, but he is not a conditioned soul. He engaged in the normal activities of man because he was teaching us how to live a spiritual life through example. This does not mean that he was bound by material nature.

And do you really think Christ was ever "tempted" by anything?

are you saying that jesus did not come in the flesh? your answer will condemn you.

My answer will condemn me? I doubt it. Jesus appeared to us to be a flesh-being. Those who know his true nature know that he is eternally spiritual.

the physical body (flesh) was REQUIRED. once again you are taking the word christ out of context.

What are you talking about "REQUIRED"? Required for what? Since we are spirit souls inside of material bodies, of course Christ APPEARED to us to be a man of flesh, but this is not the truth. What is REQUIRED is that one see the difference between the flesh and the spirit. Christ appeared to us as a normal man so that we would learn from him. His true spiritual appearance could not be seen by those who did not have the vision with which to properly view him. To such people, it seems you are one of them, you do not understand his eternally liberated status, uncontrolled by the material nature.

how does one do this?

By becoming samadhi, or engaged in transcendence. Purifying the senses is a must. Meditation helps, but most effective and necessary is the controlling of the senses and mind. Being equipoised in all situations. Not endeavoring for personal gain but acting for the benefit of the Supreme Lord. There are many ways.

if this is the case how is it that you have a caste system and muliple gods in the hindu doctrine/dogma/religion?

There is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, then there are infinite numbers of demigods and living entities. Just as the Christian God has his angels and heavenly servants, so Krsna has His demigods.

The caste system is the natural division of man. There are 4 divisions, the brahmana or God conscious intelligent class, ksatriya, warrior and administrative class, vaisya, or business and agricultural class, and sudra, or laborer class of men. This is the caste system, and it simply describes the NATURAL division of man, and it was misused by the ruling brahmanas back in the day.

Because of the manipulation, Lord Buddha appeared and rejected the entire Vedas except for karma, and took power from the ruling Hindus of his time (500 B.C.)

i agree. so if he had PRIOR knowledge to who HE was and who THE SUPREME being was why didnt he explain krshna? that is IF krshna is the supreme being.

Because you have to take into account the type of people he appeared to. They were savage, barbaric cats who could not understand anything with relation to deities because they believed all were idols. Deities are worshipped by those who experience the love of God more than any other people on the planet. This loving worship would not have been accepted by the people of that time. They were already worshipping a particular God through their particular rituals, so Jesus HAD to abide by the customs and traditions ** OF THAT PARTICULAR TIME **.

Prior to and simultaneously with Jesus's life, the Vedas were being followed by those in India and elsewhere. It is simply a matter of time and circumstance which determined what Jesus taught and that which was taught by Lord Caitanya.

the bible says he was carried away in the clouds and seated at the right hand of the father. if he went to india that would mean that he FAILED his mission.

But Christ is eternal. If you can view with eternal vision you can see that he could have done both at the same time.

i would consider these gnostic and heresies. please show me with a torah or bible (old and new testament) cases of reincarnation. reincarnation as in being born into a new body or being born into the body of a praying mantis. you cant.

You can't? Says who? Your soul has been embodied trillions of times, and will be embodied trillions more. The soul etenally has it's own body, but so long as it remains in the material world it will take on countless different forms.

can you please tell me who changed them?

The 1st and 2nd and Council of Constantinople is responsibe for the removal of the Gospel of Thomas and for declaring the writings of St. Origen of Alexandria heretical.

They changed this not for dialectic reasons, but because it threatened their control and influence.

after that explain to me what you mean by "early christianity".

Early Christianity is the period immediately following the "death" of Christ. In the beginnings of the religion, there were relatively few followers of the apostle paul, and so when the "church" was formed, it was to that church's benefit to amass as great a following as possible. For that reason certain selections have been removed and hidden over the years, such as the Essene gospels being hidden from the public in the vaults of the Vatican.

did jesus ever preach/teach taking on another physical body?

Matthew 17:9-13 Jesus explains that John the Baptist was actually Eliyah reincarnated.

Revelation 3:12 describes the idea of more than one life. "Him who overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God. And never again will he leave it."

"Never *again* leave it"? If we had not gone out in previous incarnations, we could not go out "again".

Luke 20:35-36 also: "But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die."

"No longer die?" If we only die once, then we can't die again. This passage makes no sense unless one accepts reincarnation.

truth is truth so what is truth? is yeshua coming in the flesh and dying for sins truth? or is krshna truth? is allah truth? also faith PRECEDES ones belief. keep that in mind.

Allah is truth, Krsna is truth, Yeshua coming and dying is truth. When you say "dying for sins", I hope you understand that he did not die as barter for your sinful activity. Jesus is not your sin merchant. He died BECAUSE of the sins of the pharicees.

Faith preceeds belief, but belief is not knowledge.

you are in error. SIN made SALVATION a necessity. SALVATION is a GIFT from GOD.

Sin is nothing more than acting in illusion. If one is transcendentally situated and above material nature, then he does not sin and has already been "saved". But you are correct that one is saved by the mercy of the Supreme Lord. It is his gift to us.

i encourage you to read the ENTIRE book of romans as each chapter will answer your question.

I already know. I am asking a person who believes that Jesus paid for his sins, what is the reason you should fear sinning or even bother to refrain from it? It is all taken care of by Jesus crucifixion, right?

jesus NEVER quoted from the vedas or preached reincarnation yet he quotes the old testament MANY times.

He preached reincarnation but he never quoted the Veas because the Vedas were NOT KNOWN to the people in his time and location.

if jesus grew up in india and went to india why does he have a JEWISH background?

Nobody said he grew up there. But he travelled there during his missing period.

If a jew travels to india does that mean he is no longer jewish? One does not follow from the other.

 

[Vyasadeva]

jesus taught that god was PERSONAL and not some FORCE.

Krsna is PERSONAL and not some force.

ressurection and NOT reincarnation

He talked about reincarnation. And the gospels which explained it directly were removed by the early church. Check the Gospels of Thomas, and the Essenes. There are many quotes about reincarnation attributed to Jesus. But reincarnation wouldn't do good for this flimsy "salvation" thing the church sells, now would it?


Bhagavad-Gita Ch. 2 Text 13:

"As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

monotheism instead of polytheism

Krsna is monotheism. ONE Supreme Being, who is the source of all living beings and demigods.

equality instead of the hindu caste system

Krsna is all about equality and unity. It is the Hindus who abused the Vedic caste system. And as I explained earlier, the caste system has NOTHING to do with relation to salvation or liberation, it is strictly describing the natural divisions of man. Anyone with any intelligence can see that they are described accurately.

jesus never stepped foot in india.

Were you walking with him?

was jesus a meat eater?

Nope.

you worship god in spirit and truth. an act of worship is your WALK.

What does this mean?

he is mentioned in the vedas (as some have claimed) yet he doesnt follow the first rule.......

Actually he did follow that rule. And even if he didn't, so what? He is the Son of God, we are not.

how did he become the most enlightened if he could not refrain from swallowing fish, beef,lamb etc etc etc????

There is not one passage which refers to Jesus eating beef or lamb. The story of the fish was written long after his disappearance, so how do you know what he ate that day?

all this yet jesus never practiced the vedas.........nor did he quote from them.

His audience was not an audience of Vedic civilization. A professor of neuroscience DOES NOT teach neuroscience at the supermarket. A diamond dealer does not attempt to sell diamonds on skid row. Jesus had to abide by the principles that were being followed at the time of his appearance.

where in the bible can you show me that jesus is a 100% spirit being?

If he is not a 100% spiritual being then he is not the Son of God.

do you DENY the fact that jesus came in the flesh?

He *appeared* to us to have a material body. This material world is an illusion. That material body was seen to be perfectly spiritual by those who had perfect spiritual vision. His acceptance of a "flesh" body is a display of his mercy, that an eternally liberated soul would come be crucified so that we may learn from him.

just curious....if we have no begining or end where was adam before he had a blody of flesh?

Adam had a spiritual body before his flesh body. All of us are eternal souls who each have our own spiritual body. These material bodies are temporary, but our spiritual body, our soul, is eternal.

in the scriptures i have only read of THREE distinct beings with no begining,middle or end. YHWH,YESHUA and RAUCH HAKODESH. so we existed with god before the world was created?

Bhagavad-Gita Ch. 2 Text 12:

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

All living beings are eternal souls, which have no beginning, middle, or ending. Therefore we existed prior to this universe's creation, because the universe and the world has it's beginning in "time". Our souls are timeless, so we exist with Him prior to the creation of the world and after its destruction.

yeah and jesus said that many false christs would come after him.........

He also said I have many things to tell you but you will not listen.

so jesus is the son of krsna? if krsna is god the father who or what is BRAHMA???

Krsna is the father of all living beings, Jesus included.

Brahma is a demigod, He is the first created being in each universe.

Brahman is the impersonal effulgence of Krsna. Most Hindus believe Brahman is the Supreme Being, but God is not impersonal, He is a person. He is Krsna.

Krsna says in the Gita Ch. 14 Text 27: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the consitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable, and eternal."

 

[BaSICCally]

jesus never stepped foot in india.

actully I heard and also read about this not to long ago. But I heard that the period in which nothing is written about Jesus he went to India and became a Yogi. This would sound inaccurate but Rome documented all the cases. I don't know how much truth is held to it, but it seems logical when you think about it. India is the grandfather of spirtuality. He would of had to go to India. Or else it would almost seem incomplete.

miggidy-what about all books which never made it into the Bible?

 

[Vyasadeva]

^^^ some stories say that Jesus became a wildly popular mystic in India and the brahmanas there became jealous and kicked him out.

Regardless of what actually happened, there is written evidence of his having at least resided there and having passed through other countries as well.

 

[HERESY]

So what? Their reactions do not determine or have anything to do with TRUTH. I can say that water is dry, does that make it truth?

the FACT is in EACH major doctrine/writings etc etc etc a DIFFERENT god is described. allah is NOT the same god in the torah. YHWH is not the same god in the vedas. the fundamentals are different. allah is described as having no partners yet krsna or brahma has SONS and MANY partners. YHWH does NOT accept the worship of others yet BRAHMA does.....

Yes he is. The soul is not impersonal, nor did I say that it is. It has a body and attributes.

yet MANY would say that its the "jesus" or "CHRIST SPIRIT" that matters.

Your doubt means what? Christ comes from the greek word Christos. When an Indian person calls on Krsna, he often says Krsta. Krsta is a Sanskrit word meaning "attraction". So when we address God as "Christos" "Christ", "Krsta", or "Krsna", we indicate the same all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead.

christ is not "attraction" and has never been attraction. the word means ANOINTED. i suggest you look up CHRIST in a GREEK LEXICON before you reply again. STRONGS NUMBER 5547 AND 5548.

I know it is not a name. "Jesus" was the name given to the body Christ appeared as.I know it is not a name. "Jesus" was the name given to the body Christ appeared as. What TITLE does the word Christ signify?

anointed of god/messiah of god/anointed and appointed by god. take your pick.

He appeared to be under these laws, but he is not a conditioned soul. He engaged in the normal activities of man because he was teaching us how to live a spiritual life through example. This does not mean that he was bound by material nature. He appeared to be under these laws, but he is not a conditioned soul. He engaged in the normal activities of man because he was teaching us how to live a spiritual life through example. This does not mean that he was bound by material nature. And do you really think Christ was ever "tempted" by anything?

according to the new testament yes.Heb. 4:14-15. i wont even list what the gospels say.

My answer will condemn me? I doubt it. Jesus appeared to us to be a flesh-being. Those who know his true nature know that he is eternally spiritual.

this does not answer my question. a simple yes or no is all that is neded. did jesus come in the flesh? yes or no.

What are you talking about "REQUIRED"? Required for what? Since we are spirit souls inside of material bodies, of course Christ APPEARED to us to be a man of flesh, but this is not the truth. What is REQUIRED is that one see the difference between the flesh and the spirit. Christ appeared to us as a normal man so that we would learn from him. His true spiritual appearance could not be seen by those who did not have the vision with which to properly view him. To such people, it seems you are one of them, you do not understand his eternally liberated status, uncontrolled by the material nature.

this is against the doctrine of jesus and the doctrine of all the apostles who preached. first of all im not teh person on here claiming that all spiritual ways lead to the same door. nor am i in contradiction or error. its YOU. so keep your insults and low blows to a minimum. if YOU dont know the meaning of a simple word (christ) how can ANYONE expect you to know anything else? i KNOW that my flesh is simply that. thats not the TRUE HERESY. i understand this concept. this si why i try to walk in the SPIRIT daily. this is why i try to put off the old man and CRUCIFY the flesh on a DAILY basis.

There is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, then there are infinite numbers of demigods and living entities. Just as the Christian God has his angels and heavenly servants, so Krsna has His demigods.

and this god FORBIDS the worship of angels,demigods demons etc etc etc.

Because you have to take into account the type of people he appeared to. They were savage, barbaric cats who could not understand anything with relation to deities because they believed all were idols. Deities are worshipped by those who experience the love of God more than any other people on the planet. This loving worship would not have been accepted by the people of that time. They were already worshipping a particular God through their particular rituals, so Jesus HAD to abide by the customs and traditions ** OF THAT PARTICULAR TIME **.

so are you saying jesus sugar coated and worshipped one god just to get by???????

You can't? Says who? Your soul has been embodied trillions of times, and will be embodied trillions more. The soul etenally has it's own body, but so long as it remains in the material world it will take on countless different forms.

this contradicts Hebrews 9:27.

The 1st and 2nd and Council of Constantinople is responsibe for the removal of the Gospel of Thomas and for declaring the writings of St. Origen of Alexandria heretical.

so you are saying that pagans removed it....interesting.......

Early Christianity is the period immediately following the "death" of Christ. In the beginnings of the religion, there were relatively few followers of the apostle paul, and so when the "church" was formed, it was to that church's benefit to amass as great a following as possible. For that reason certain selections have been removed and hidden over the years, such as the Essene gospels being hidden from the public in the vaults of the Vatican.

and you have access to these vaults? how do YOU know whats hidden in them?

Matthew 17:9-13 Jesus explains that John the Baptist was actually Eliyah reincarnated.

this has to do with the **MINISTRY** of john not him being reincarnated. if john the baptist was elijah reincarnated why did john DENY being elijah in JOHN 1:21??

Revelation 3:12 describes the idea of more than one life. "Him who overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God. And never again will he leave it."

this has NOTHING to do with reincarnation and many lives. this is a letter to the church of philadelphia. this has to do with TRIBULATION. once again you are in error.

Luke 20:35-36 also: "But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die."

you are in error once again. this pertains to the last ressurection and the last death. you can die physically and spiritually. those listed in luke 20:25-36 do not partake in the SECOND DEATH listed in revelations 20:1-14.

Allah is truth, Krsna is truth, Yeshua coming and dying is truth.

these 3 contradict each other. they CANNOT all be true. they are NOT cohesive.

When you say "dying for sins", I hope you understand that he did not die as barter for your sinful activity. Jesus is not your sin merchant. He died BECAUSE of the sins of the pharicees.

no jesus did NOT die because of the sins of the pharisees alone. his death was to reconcile man with creator. you are in error. the sins of the world. this is what john the baptist said, what paul said,what peter said and what JESUS himself said.

Sin is nothing more than acting in illusion. If one is transcendentally situated and above material nature, then he does not sin and has already been "saved". But you are correct that one is saved by the mercy of the Supreme Lord. It is his gift to us.

you are in error. sin is a DIRECT violation of the commandment /will of god. it is DIRECT rebellion.

sin=spiritual death/seperation from god.

http://www.bibleanswer.com/trugrace.htm.

I already know. I am asking a person who believes that Jesus paid for his sins, what is the reason you should fear sinning or even bother to refrain from it? It is all taken care of by Jesus crucifixion, right?

i hold romans 6:1-23 to be truth. it answers your question. please read it.

He preached reincarnation but he never quoted the Veas because the Vedas were NOT KNOWN to the people in his time and location.

as i have shown jesus never preached reincarnation. the vedas were not known to him........hey did you read that link you posted????

Nobody said he grew up there. But he travelled there during his missing period.

what missing period? there is no proof or documents that said jesus went to india....what do you mean by his missing period?

if jesus was missing why is it that he was called a NAZARENE?
THIS PAGE DEBUNKS YOUR ENTIRE DOCTRINE/THEORY OF JESUS IN INDIA OR ANYWHERE ELSE.....http://www.str.org/free/studies/india.htm

part 2 coming up next

 

[HERESY]

He talked about reincarnation. And the gospels which explained it directly were removed by the early church. Check the Gospels of Thomas, and the Essenes. There are many quotes about reincarnation attributed to Jesus. But reincarnation wouldn't do good for this flimsy "salvation" thing the church sells, now would it?

these are gnostic. i have already read them and i have shown that jesus never preached reincarnation.

Nope.

yet he came eating and drinking......yet he observed the passovers and other jewish festivities......Luke 24:41-43 shows him eating fish.

Krsna is monotheism. ONE Supreme Being, who is the source of all living beings and demigods.

monotheism is described as the worship/doctrine/belief of one god. if krsna is this why worship shiva?

Were you walking with him?

you were the one who FIRST presented evidence of jesus in india. proof is on you. not me.

What does this mean?

it is what it is.......

Actually he did follow that rule. And even if he didn't, so what? He is the Son of God, we are not.

jesus ate meat as i have shown you. that would mean that he feel short on 1 of the 4 things you listed. not to mention that he DRANK. that would make him 2 for 4......

There is not one passage which refers to Jesus eating beef or lamb. The story of the fish was written long after his disappearance, so how do you know what he ate that day?

if he held the passover he ate meat. i suggest you study judaism.

He *appeared* to us to have a material body. This material world is an illusion. That material body was seen to be perfectly spiritual by those who had perfect spiritual vision. His acceptance of a "flesh" body is a display of his mercy, that an eternally liberated soul would come be crucified so that we may learn from him.

to say that he appeared to have a physical body is complete nonsense....i wont even comment on it any more.

His audience was not an audience of Vedic civilization. A professor of neuroscience DOES NOT teach neuroscience at the supermarket. A diamond dealer does not attempt to sell diamonds on skid row. Jesus had to abide by the principles that were being followed at the time of his appearance.

jesus did NOT abide by the principles that were followed during his time. which is why he was condemned for BLASPHEMY.

He also said I have many things to tell you but you will not listen.

and he also said he would send the rauch hakodesh.if you are going to use teh bible scriptures use them in context.

Adam had a spiritual body before his flesh body. All of us are eternal souls who each have our own spiritual body. These material bodies are temporary, but our spiritual body, our soul, is eternal.

i agree with your statement except when it comes to adam. adam had NO pre existance. he became animate when YWHW breath into his nostrils.

Krsna is the father of all living beings, Jesus included.Krsna is the father of all living beings, Jesus included.

Brahma is a demigod, He is the first created being in each universe.

Brahman is the impersonal effulgence of Krsna. Most Hindus believe Brahman is the Supreme Being, but God is not impersonal, He is a person. He is Krsna.

Krsna says in the Gita Ch. 14 Text 27: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the consitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable, and eternal."

to many holes and in this doctrine. so many gods to name and remember.....

if the bible,quran and vedas all agree with each other show me what EACH one says about the following.

GOD

CREATION OF THE WORLD

MAN

SIN

SALVATION

DEATH


:H:

 

[BaSICCally]

That site is Christian site. Of course it is going to say he did not go into India. Cause if he did this would turn the Christian world up side down. Oh well....I have yet to see any reliable source which says he went or a reliable source which said he did not.