Illegal Immigrants Demand Citizenship

[ParkBoyz]

What are you on about? Mexicans dont give A shit about Natives? thats bullshit! My mother is A Native from Mexico, she knows the struggles of being indigenous just as much as A Native from the states.. and California did belong to Mexico

..

Haha! Like I said before, this is a wretched lie!! Your personal experience account is selective and has nothing to do with the amalgamation of culture that persisted during and after Spanish colonization of the Americas that generally affected those directly influenced and it was unavoidable that this would create a dichotomy between indigenous cultures and assimilated foreign cultures. Along with history I observe it in some form all the time (I really do), "Mexican" is a separate identity and they tend to look down on Natives, period. Same can be said for a lot of post-colonial African natives in regards to their attitudes towards Diasporians or "Obrunis"..

it was taken away from Mexico just like other states in the southwest.. Mexicans only claim indigenous blood when its convinient?? whoa! that's a first.. first of all if youre talking about the people who created the ''Mexica Movement'' that was founded in the early 90's by young Xicano, and Central & South American people and Cuban/PuertoRican taino descendants.. it wasnt founded last year or for the immigrant marches.. and if Mexicans arent Indigenous then tell me why racists consider us ''illegal indians'' if you dont believe me visit stormfront for your concrete evidence..

Your first statement is invalid because of two points/questions..

1. What is a "Mexican" and how long have they existed?
2. Who did "Mexicans" take the land from before it was in turn, taken from them?

^Good example is Texas.. Texas was never "Mexican" territory, the majority of the SouthWest (including parts of modern Mexico, until they got ran out) belonged to the Dine (Navajo) and Apache.. Geronimo himself recalled raids from Mexico that killed damn near his entire family.
http://www.answers.com/topic/apache
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_people

Using separatist movements as a reference doesn't help your argument either and you only enhanced my point. Either way it doesn't exemplify any ideals of the masses since as you say, these people were Native Americans who simply recognized the fact that they were Native Americans, and embraced it while condemning anything European-imposed, unlike Spanish speaking "Mexicans" who embrace "Mexican" culture.

As far as Mexicans not being indigenous, I never said that, though it is peculiar that according to the U.S. Census reports, a big bulk of Mexicans actually identify as "White", and not Native American.

about Haitans, if you didnt know they are also in this battle for Immigrant rights! only the media doesnt show you that side, why? for the most part I dont know, contact them.. but it's mostly about ''Latinos'' if you look at it from the S.O.S. or MinuteMen point of view.. I've NEVER met another ''Latin American'' who does not take pride in their Native culture - go to Peru, Colombia, Mexico, Venezuela, Bolivia, Brazil even.. they all have Indigenous movements! it's the government that do not take care of them and the real Issues of Central & South America.. Only Mexicans a victim of past atrocities?? What kind of A mindset is that man..

Firstly, 1 or 2 separatist movements isn't enough to represent an entire cultural legacy, there's nothing to infer from that. About Haiti, well there are no minute men on the Florida coasts, maybe there would be if they didn't need the coast guard, but this wasn't my point, just pointing out a double standard, are we to allow all immigrants free access into the country? If not, then what makes Mexicans so special that they deserve it more than Haitians? I never addressed ''Latin America'' as a monotypic whole and I never claimed that Mexicans are the only victims, my point was that they weren't. And my mind state is sober..

 

[Music Nfluenced]

In my situation, I work a 9-5 Monday through Friday. I don't have any benefits at all. I've been sick with a life-threating illness (possibly stomach cancer). I have to wait in line signing paperwork for prescriptions at the hospital while half of the time another illegal I see is walking out with free medicine and checkups. How is it that I don't have a car yet the illegal immigrant next to me in my passenger window, has a new truck with rims showing off. I'm here legally yet I'm car-less and gonna die in a few years. Call me a hater but you would hate too if you're doing everything right and people that don't belong here are flashing their gold bling and sombreros in your damn face.

 

[ParkBoyz]

In my situation, I work a 9-5 Monday through Friday. I don't have any benefits at all. I've been sick with a life-threating illness (possibly stomach cancer). I have to wait in line signing paperwork for prescriptions at the hospital while half of the time another illegal I see is walking out with free medicine and checkups. How is it that I don't have a car yet the illegal immigrant next to me in my passenger window, has a new truck with rims showing off. I'm here legally yet I'm car-less and gonna die in a few years. Call me a hater but you would hate too if you're doing everything right and people that don't belong here are flashing their gold bling and sombreros in your damn face.

^What an endearing/passionate contribution to the discussion.. I don't see why some pro-immigrationists don't understand stories like these or just don't care. If it were possible to safely bring all 3rd world inhabitants into this country with out impeding on anyone else or straining resources then I'd be all for it. But it doesn't work like that, pro-immigrationists want anarchy, they want equal rights for all those south/north of the border, but only at the expense of a stable state/nation and tax dollars. Instead of encouraging them to go through the typical process, they encourage them to risk their lives by crossing rivers, running through deserts, and evading apprehension, all so that they can be comfortable. That is so extremely selfish to me.

 

[JLMACN]

there is no winning here, its all opinion.

5000

 

[CcytzO_Loc]

..

Your first statement is invalid because of two points/questions..

1. What is a "Mexican" and how long have they existed?
2. Who did "Mexicans" take the land from before it was in turn, taken from them?

^Good example is Texas.. Texas was never "Mexican" territory, the majority of the SouthWest (including parts of modern Mexico, until they got ran out) belonged to the Dine (Navajo) and Apache.. Geronimo himself recalled raids from Mexico that killed damn near his entire family.
http://www.answers.com/topic/apache
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_people

Using separatist movements as a reference doesn't help your argument either and you only enhanced my point. Either way it doesn't exemplify any ideals of the masses since as you say, these people were Native Americans who simply recognized the fact that they were Native Americans, and embraced it while condemning anything European-imposed, unlike Spanish speaking "Mexicans" who embrace "Mexican" culture.

As far as Mexicans not being indigenous, I never said that, though it is peculiar that according to the U.S. Census reports, a big bulk of Mexicans actually identify as "White", and not Native American.

you are right on these points.....and i have noticed that on applications and such when it asks you to choose race the only thing for us latinos is white or native american and sometimes other.....they list mexican and "hispanic other than mexican" seperate from each other when they ask for ethinicity too.....i always choose hispanic other than mexican cuz im half cuban as well....and on race ive chozen native american or other cuz ill be damned if im gonna put white.....then it looks like theres less latinos and more white folks on the census.....

by the way what is the big difference in ethnicity and race cuz they always separate and race only has like 5 options.....white, blacc, asian, native american, other...some shit like that....

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

In my situation, I work a 9-5 Monday through Friday. I don't have any benefits at all. I've been sick with a life-threating illness (possibly stomach cancer). I have to wait in line signing paperwork for prescriptions at the hospital while half of the time another illegal I see is walking out with free medicine and checkups. How is it that I don't have a car yet the illegal immigrant next to me in my passenger window, has a new truck with rims showing off. I'm here legally yet I'm car-less and gonna die in a few years. Call me a hater but you would hate too if you're doing everything right and people that don't belong here are flashing their gold bling and sombreros in your damn face.

Now we're blaming America's shitty healthcare on illegal immigrants?? LMAO! Some of you guys are funny...

^What an endearing/passionate contribution to the discussion.. I don't see why some pro-immigrationists don't understand stories like these or just don't care. If it were possible to safely bring all 3rd world inhabitants into this country with out impeding on anyone else or straining resources then I'd be all for it. But it doesn't work like that, pro-immigrationists want anarchy, they want equal rights for all those south/north of the border, but only at the expense of a stable state/nation and tax dollars. Instead of encouraging them to go through the typical process, they encourage them to risk their lives by crossing rivers, running through deserts, and evading apprehension, all so that they can be comfortable. That is so extremely selfish to me.

WHO encourages these people to risk their lives? And these people don't risk their lives so they can "be comfortable," they work hard and feed families. These people aren't fuckin ballers with millions of dollars at America's expense! Don't forget that most of these people STILL live below the poverty level. And you're calling these people selfish, yet you and others want them out and want all of America's resources for only yourselves? Fuck an American citizenship, some are lucky to have it, but I'm not gonna let it make me think I'm superior to those who live outside of this country and are also trying to make it.

 

[ParkBoyz]

by the way what is the big difference in ethnicity and race

There is no difference, they're both merely social concepts used to accommodate an identity for a particular culture and geographic group. "Race" simply encompasses a wider expanse and is actually more arbitrary since it's based on physical appearance (not culture) but not supported at all by genetics or science.

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

We've had similar problems in the UK, but really the fact is kicking out illegals would help secure your economy more than anything.

Illegal immigrants in any country do serve a purpose as far as cheap labor (which any capitalist nation needs and feeds off of). But then again any money they make in your nation, is probably going to be taken back to their own home country in one way or another, meaning the money they make off your nation they are funneling out and right into their own country. In the end your nation loses more money to them than is gained by their cheap labor.

You can say what you want about illegal immigrants but the fact remains they only impede and hender economic progress and growth. What you could argue though is discrimination in the immigration process, that's what these people should be protesting if anything.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

We've had similar problems in the UK, but really the fact is kicking out illegals would help secure your economy more than anything.

Illegal immigrants in any country do serve a purpose as far as cheap labor (which any capitalist nation needs and feeds off of). But then again any money they make in your nation, is probably going to be taken back to their own home country in one way or another, meaning the money they make off your nation they are funneling out and right into their own country. In the end your nation loses more money to them than is gained by their cheap labor.

You can say what you want about illegal immigrants but the fact remains they only impede and hender economic progress and growth. What you could argue though is discrimination in the immigration process, that's what these people should be protesting if anything.

I'm sorry, but you CANNOT compare the US to the UK in this matter. And although immigrants do send money back home, they LIVE in the US, so they obviously have to spend some money while they're here. If you would do some research on how much the agriculture business means not only to the California economy, but the entire US's economy, then maybe you could understand the severity of losing the work that these people do.

 

[ParkBoyz]

WHO encourages these people to risk their lives? And these people don't risk their lives so they can "be comfortable," they work hard and feed families. These people aren't fuckin ballers with millions of dollars at America's expense! Don't forget that most of these people STILL live below the poverty level.

Let's be realistic here, it is selfish to support immigration! They're risking their lives for convenience. Every single person who crosses that border isn't a "hard worker", in fact, a lot are hardened criminals and by law, all of them are. Let's forget the judicial system though, what does the fact that they're poor have to do with America? Is America obligated to provide services to Mexico or open their gates simply due to the fact that they're poor? Mexico is not the poorest country in the world you know, not even on this side of it. That's a poor excuse actually.

And you're calling these people selfish, yet you and others want them out and want all of America's resources for only yourselves? Fuck an American citizenship, some are lucky to have it, but I'm not gonna let it make me think I'm superior to those who live outside of this country and are also trying to make it.

Yes, again it is selfish and your reductionist reply will not suffice.. It isn't that I want all of the resources to myself, America is home to over 400 million people and most of us don't have the same opportunities, illegal population density only makes it worse for the poor peoples of America and makes it harder to compete. Why should we have to compete against illegals? Doesn't make any sense at all. And of course no one is superior to anyone, that's irrelevant, there's just simply no need to support immigration, it's like giving out candy in a class room. You give one person a life saver, and everybody else is going to have their hand out, even the teacher. So fuck that, if Mexico, why not Haiti if Haiti, why not all of Latin America, if Latin America, why not Africa, if Africa, why not the entire world crowded and integrated centrally into the U.S.? Again, is there something special about Mexico besides that fact that a lot of people in the states and apparently on this board are of Mexican descent? I call that Bias, no ones complaining about Haiti, like I said.. Of course it isn't that big of a problem numerically, but still, they actually live worse!

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

I'm sorry, but you CANNOT compare the US to the UK in this matter.

Touché.

 

[CcytzO_Loc]

Now we're blaming America's shitty healthcare on illegal immigrants?? LMAO! Some of you guys are funny...



WHO encourages these people to risk their lives? And these people don't risk their lives so they can "be comfortable," they work hard and feed families. These people aren't fuckin ballers with millions of dollars at America's expense! Don't forget that most of these people STILL live below the poverty level. And you're calling these people selfish, yet you and others want them out and want all of America's resources for only yourselves? Fuck an American citizenship, some are lucky to have it, but I'm not gonna let it make me think I'm superior to those who live outside of this country and are also trying to make it.

aye lamberto how many ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS do you personally know and live around on a daily basis???? cuz the majority of the ones i live around waste their money on liquor and drugs and whores and a lot of them engage in illegal means to get the money......it might just be the lucc of the draw and you got all the good natured ones living near you i dunno but im speaking off 1st hand experiences not any kinda superior motivation......i just dont think its fair that a lot of these people are abusing a system that costs me money and i cant get away with doing the same things they are doing....if they are so poor how can they afford to get drunk and fucc whores every night???? how do they afford new truccs with rims and sound systems???? how do they afford all that gold around they neccs???? these niggaz aint all impoverished immigrants....a lot of them are ballers and making way more money than me.....shit some of them waste more money than i make legit......

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

Let's be realistic here, it is selfish to support immigration! They're risking their lives for convenience. Every single person who crosses that border isn't a "hard worker", in fact, a lot are hardened criminals and by law, all of them are. Let's forget the judicial system though, what does the fact that they're poor have to do with America? Is America obligated to provide services to Mexico or open their gates simply due to the fact that they're poor? Mexico is not the poorest country in the world you know, not even on this side of it. That's a poor excuse actually.

A lot are hardened criminals? Show me some statistics before you make claims like that, sounds like you're just pulling shit outta your ass. What does the fac that they're poor have to do with America? YOU need to do some research on the US foreign policy with Mexico, NAFTA, intrusions during the Mexican Revolution, all the way back to The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. America isn't obligated to provide services for anybody, people WORK! I would understand if these people came here and were all on welfare, but they come here and earn everything they get. Of course Mexico isn't the poorest country in the world, it's got like the 3rd most billionaires of any country in the world I think! That doesn't change the fact that people struggle to eat there, so they come here to get their bread. Mexico's relationship to the United States is very unique, and if you don't understand why then you need to take a couple of history classes. Also, in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, exclusive rights were given to immigrants wanting to come here from Mexico.

Yes, again it is selfish and your reductionist reply will not suffice.. It isn't that I want all of the resources to myself, America is home to over 400 million people and most of us don't have the same opportunities, illegal population density only makes it worse for the poor peoples of America and makes it harder to compete. Why should we have to compete against illegals? Doesn't make any sense at all. And of course no one is superior to anyone, that's irrelevant, there's just simply no need to support immigration, it's like giving out candy in a class room. You give one person a life saver, and everybody else is going to have their hand out, even the teacher. So fuck that, if Mexico, why not Haiti if Haiti, why not all of Latin America, if Latin America, why not Africa, if Africa, why not the entire world crowded and integrated centrally into the U.S.? Again, is there something special about Mexico besides that fact that a lot of people in the states and apparently on this board are of Mexican descent? I call that Bias, no ones complaining about Haiti, like I said.. Of course it isn't that big of a problem numerically, but still, they actually live worse!

Again, if you don't understand the "special" relationship that Mexico and the United States have, then you need do a little reading. And why do you see it as giving people life savers?? They come here and work, they don't get anything for free. I have nothing against immigrants from Haiti, Africa, all of Latin America, if they can make it here, I would welcome them and wish them luck. The reason there is so much opportunity and wealth in this country has a lot to do with the fact that the US government has fucked countries over all over the world for their resources. Look at all they've done in just Latin America!

This argument never ends, but I will say this: there will be a war before the US kicks out 12 million Mexicans. So these politicians and congressmen better think really good when they're writing and passing the immigration reform laws...

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

aye lamberto how many ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS do you personally know and live around on a daily basis???? cuz the majority of the ones i live around waste their money on liquor and drugs and whores and a lot of them engage in illegal means to get the money......it might just be the lucc of the draw and you got all the good natured ones living near you i dunno but im speaking off 1st hand experiences not any kinda superior motivation......i just dont think its fair that a lot of these people are abusing a system that costs me money and i cant get away with doing the same things they are doing....if they are so poor how can they afford to get drunk and fucc whores every night???? how do they afford new truccs with rims and sound systems???? how do they afford all that gold around they neccs???? these niggaz aint all impoverished immigrants....a lot of them are ballers and making way more money than me.....shit some of them waste more money than i make legit......

I know a lot, and I encounter them everyday, as do most people who go out to eat in California.

These people come here to work for their money, who the fuck are you to say that they shouldn't spend it on Bud Light, Cocaine, Hookers, Suburbans with three 22 inch rims and an airbrushed picture of their rancho, anything? American citizens who waste their money on this shit are cool in your eyes?

The ones that engage in illegal means to get the money are few, but that type of person exists in every color/race. And how are they abusing the system? By working and getting paid cheap wages? And about these "immigrant ballers," I think you're trippin'. Only immigrant baller I know of is Chingo Bling! The majority of these people are good, hard working people. How do you know that those people you described are illegal? Have you asked them?

 

[CcytzO_Loc]

if any of us went to mexico.....and i mean a normal place with working class people not some tourest spot......if we got a job and spent most our money on drugs and liquor and fucced mexican women the whole time speaking english and refusing to learn spanish or conform to any of their rules and customs how long do you think we would be welcome????

 

[CcytzO_Loc]

These people come here to work for their money, who the fuck are you to say that they shouldn't spend it on Bud Light, Cocaine, Hookers, Suburbans with three 22 inch rims and an airbrushed picture of their rancho, anything?

The ones that engage in illegal means to get the money are few, but that type of person exists in every color/race. And how are they abusing the system? By working and getting paid cheap wages? And about these "immigrant ballers," I think you're trippin'. Only immigrant baller I know of is Chingo Bling! The majority of these people are good, hard working people. How do you know that those people you described are illegal? Have you asked them?

like i said you must be luccy enough to know only HARD WORKING MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS WITH GENERALLY POSITIVE OUTLOOKS ON LIFE.....

the ones i know are exact opposite....come kicc it wit me in my hood for a whole day and you might realize what im talking about.....go to South Side Tucson arizona and live there for a good year and soak in the scene.....then come talk to me....

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

if any of us went to mexico.....and i mean a normal place with working class people not some tourest spot......if we got a job and spent most our money on drugs and liquor and fucced mexican women the whole time speaking english and refusing to learn spanish or conform to any of their rules and customs how long do you think we would be welcome????

Mexico is a little different than the United States Ccytzo, and since when did these people refuse to learn English? That's rediculous! Not being able to learn English is one thing, but refusing it is completely retarded. Who would refuse to learn something that could help them get jobs?

And all the shit you described DOES go on in every single Mexican beach/ tourist spot!

 

[BotomOFdaBay408]

^^^Thats real shit and on tha real shouldnt we be worrying about other issues rather than a problem that most politicians are making bigger than it needs ta be. Really were all immigrants the only true Americans are Native Americans and Aztecs

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

like i said you must be luccy enough to know only HARD WORKING MEXICAN IMMIGRANTS WITH GENERALLY POSITIVE OUTLOOKS ON LIFE.....

the ones i know are exact opposite....come kicc it wit me in my hood for a whole day and you might realize what im talking about.....go to South Side Tucson arizona and live there for a good year and soak in the scene.....then come talk to me....

Do you stereotype every other race based on how their people act in your hood? The world is a lot bigger than your neighborhood, and if there are some illegal immigrants that are fucking up where you're at, well that's fucked up. But don't think that every single Mexican immigrant is exactly the same.

 

[CcytzO_Loc]

also tell me this...

how would you feel if you were a middle aged woman and you mind your own business.....go to work everyday....your a legal citizen born in this country and you try to follow the rules as much as possible....you pay taxes and you work hard for your money to barely get by......when you come home from work theres a shitload of cars in your way with a bunch of drunk illegal immigrants standing around whistling at you and yelling obscene things in spanish....one of them is in your parking spot that you pay for and when you ask them to move their car they talk shit to you......then one day one of them is driving drunk and hits you on their way out of the gate....you try to chase them down but they disappear....you recognize them another day and tell them that they hit you and didn't stop....they try to lie about it....they finally admit it but they don't have a license or insurance and they only say they will give you some money for the damage but you have no way of knowing for sure.....you can call the police who wont be able to do shit cuz they wont even find the fool cuz his car aint registered in his name....he aint even registered cuz he is an illegal alien!!!!! then days later when he said he would come and pay you he doesnt.....your assed out and cant do shit about it cuz you was trying to live your life legit but these fuccs dont care about you or your country they just want what they can get out of it to benefit them.....they was all outside here today yelling fucc america......and we supposed to feel sorry for them??????

this is what my mom has to deal with where she lives.....so i guess she should move because its their right to do these things and if she dont like it she can go somewhere else right??????