Prove me wrong. The Beastie Boys, as a group were formed in 1981. There first documented display of Hip-Hip was somewhere between 1982-1983. At this early stage of the 80's, Rap music was not a KNOWN part of any culture. In other words, your average person from the suburbs or ghetto, somewhere far from where these events were taking place, would have no idea who invented or what hip-hop even was. I know rap has been around for a while; Kurtis Blow and the Sugarhill Gang were doing in in 1979-1980, but it wasn't widely known across the nation. It wasn't until later that people began to realize where this music came from, who started it and what it meant. I have done my research, have you done your's?
DEgREES OF WIggA-ISM
- Thread starter EDJ
- Start date
In some of your posts you said that rap produced negativity, or had a negative influence on youth. Here's something to think about, though. Which do you think has a more negative impact, rap music or poverty?
You say that "generalization of the 'white' race" is "a major problem" in "the African American community." I don't see how that's a major problem. It seems like the exploitation of oppressed people is a major problem. I don't see how grouping the oppressors under the category of "white" really compares. Especially since so many people tend to side with the oppressors and blame blacks for their own predicament (like you). Personally I'd rather stop the unconscionable exploitation of blacks than use my efforts to fight against "the generalization of the white race." I don't see that as a problem...
I speak on my observations from research, reading, education, social interaction and life experiences. I don't expect you to be compelled by any of these sources, but I'm not exactly trying to change your opinion about anything either.
Who are you folks? I never asked you to prove any of your statements...
OK, but this thread was about white rap fans, not black rap fans. I stated that I see many white rap fans who simultaneously enjoy rap while endorsing white supremacy. I don't think black rap fans necessarily need to know who the "first" rapper was in order to understand very well the racism and oppression that led to rap's creation... Anyway, even if blacks were somehow clueless about rap's founding influences (as you argue), it doesn't change my earlier statement about white rap fans and white supremacy.
Man, I REALLY wish Hustle hadn't deleted that thread. It was AMAZING. I think you would have found it extremely interesting. I was going to print the entire thing, but I was just a bit too late...now it's somewhere in the Siccness abyss.
I was about to say the same thing to you...
Like I said earlier, I don't expect you to be compelled by one person's life experiences & observations, whether that person be me or EDJ or Heresy, etc. You seem to do a lot of dismissing. But you must be wondering in the back of your mind why so many people (esp. knowledgeable blacks) disagree with your conservative viewpoints...
I can't get statistics from different labels because the article was written by an industry insider to demonstrate the very LOW amount an artist tends to make on an album release (using very generous estimates in favor of the artist to make the point). It's on a different computer than the one I'm using right now-I'll try to find it in the next couple of days and see if I can post it for you...
If you say so man. Like EDJ said, let your labeling be your downfall. Blaming the victim is the easy explanation and it's difficult to see the real deal if you've never been on the other side of the fence. Your views are strongly aligned with the status quo and it's difficult for you to see how strongly the status quo upholds white supremacy. As for EDJ, if our comments have contradicted one another, I'll expect to see a reply from him soon. Otherwise...
You say that "generalization of the 'white' race" is "a major problem" in "the African American community." I don't see how that's a major problem. It seems like the exploitation of oppressed people is a major problem. I don't see how grouping the oppressors under the category of "white" really compares. Especially since so many people tend to side with the oppressors and blame blacks for their own predicament (like you). Personally I'd rather stop the unconscionable exploitation of blacks than use my efforts to fight against "the generalization of the white race." I don't see that as a problem...
I speak on my observations from research, reading, education, social interaction and life experiences. I don't expect you to be compelled by any of these sources, but I'm not exactly trying to change your opinion about anything either.
Who are you folks? I never asked you to prove any of your statements...
OK, but this thread was about white rap fans, not black rap fans. I stated that I see many white rap fans who simultaneously enjoy rap while endorsing white supremacy. I don't think black rap fans necessarily need to know who the "first" rapper was in order to understand very well the racism and oppression that led to rap's creation... Anyway, even if blacks were somehow clueless about rap's founding influences (as you argue), it doesn't change my earlier statement about white rap fans and white supremacy.
Man, I REALLY wish Hustle hadn't deleted that thread. It was AMAZING. I think you would have found it extremely interesting. I was going to print the entire thing, but I was just a bit too late...now it's somewhere in the Siccness abyss.
I was about to say the same thing to you...
Like I said earlier, I don't expect you to be compelled by one person's life experiences & observations, whether that person be me or EDJ or Heresy, etc. You seem to do a lot of dismissing. But you must be wondering in the back of your mind why so many people (esp. knowledgeable blacks) disagree with your conservative viewpoints...
I can't get statistics from different labels because the article was written by an industry insider to demonstrate the very LOW amount an artist tends to make on an album release (using very generous estimates in favor of the artist to make the point). It's on a different computer than the one I'm using right now-I'll try to find it in the next couple of days and see if I can post it for you...
If you say so man. Like EDJ said, let your labeling be your downfall. Blaming the victim is the easy explanation and it's difficult to see the real deal if you've never been on the other side of the fence. Your views are strongly aligned with the status quo and it's difficult for you to see how strongly the status quo upholds white supremacy. As for EDJ, if our comments have contradicted one another, I'll expect to see a reply from him soon. Otherwise...
Who are you directing that at, and who's views are you speaking of.. If you are directing that at me, in reference to SOLO's outlook of a "WIGGER" then NO, that absolutely DOES NOT make you a RACIST. Believe it or not, what SOLO had to say about the word "WHITE" and his entire out-take on a "WIGGER" make perfect sense. Not only do I agree with it, but I think it's a very intelligent analisys. At first I didn't understand what he was trying to say, now I do. There is A LOT more I have to say about this, maybe tomorow, but right now time is very short.
MUCH MORE on everything later.
MUCH MORE on everything later.
The Beastie Boys were more of a Punk Band when they first came out.Rap has been known in every hood since probably 1982,so I don't know how you could say the ghetto did'nt know about rap music in the early 80's?Maybe were you grew up it was'nt well known,but it was everywhere around here in 1982.People were makin radio mixes,sportin pumas sweat suits,and all that shit.Suburban America jumped on the bandwagon after breakdancin came along,and that's when some folks jumped on board.Now rap audiences are kats who never stole a can of Krylon,and think fat laces came out in 1994.It's a shame,I think the worst thing that happened to rap music,is when grunge music died.
First of all, who is "a nigga", is that YOU or SOLO? Secondly, I don't remember you saying ANYTHING along the lines of what SOLO did. You said "That sounds like a wigga to me" when I mentioned that I had rap cd's collecting dust. So not only did you guys not say the same thing, but you couldn't have been further apart from one another.
I know this. They formed in 81 and started rappin' in 82-83, that leaves about a year. They actually continued to do Punk music after 82-83.
Since 1982? I could just as easily say 1984. Why don't we dig up sales records on the albums these artists were releasing. I sure if it was known everywhere by 1982, there must have been a substantial amount of records sold. Either way, I think my statement about the Beastie Boys is safe.
You need to be fitted for a skirt. Maybe a cheerleading outfit?
I know this. They formed in 81 and started rappin' in 82-83, that leaves about a year. They actually continued to do Punk music after 82-83.
Since 1982? I could just as easily say 1984. Why don't we dig up sales records on the albums these artists were releasing. I sure if it was known everywhere by 1982, there must have been a substantial amount of records sold. Either way, I think my statement about the Beastie Boys is safe.
You need to be fitted for a skirt. Maybe a cheerleading outfit?
So, either I don't understand that your right, or I don't want to believe your right? ROTFL! You've really narrowed it down havent you. Perhaps, none of the above... maybe you don't understand HERESY, has that ever crossed your mind? We'll see what your friend SOLO thinks about "The generilization of the white race" after reading my next post. Maybe he will, I don't know, disagree with you? Or maybe you will understand after reading it yourself... anything is possible.
Do you think you are some supreme being that when you say "it's not a problem" it automatically holds true? What constitutes a "PROBLEM" HERESY, your approval? All problems must be run through HERESY before they can be official. You see, I KNOW these problems are real, whether or not you choose to acknowledge them DOES NOT MATTER. You pick and choose statistical problems out of a book, congratulations. I use my eyes and ears and I see undocumented problems developing through my own observations, I did through the roots. Not to worry, I will not share any more of these problems with you again.
"You asked, so i'll answer. In this case, "you guys" would consist of HERESY, Tenkamenin, SOLO, EDJ, Lacahontes (and others) who have all participated in discussions with me in this forum. Oh, what, you though I meant "black" people by saying "you guys"? Sorry to let you down EDJ, but your the lone racist in this thread."
Read, then speak son.
:dead::H::dead:
PS: I sincerely apologize for mis-spelling your name this entire time, nothing personal.
Do you think you are some supreme being that when you say "it's not a problem" it automatically holds true? What constitutes a "PROBLEM" HERESY, your approval? All problems must be run through HERESY before they can be official. You see, I KNOW these problems are real, whether or not you choose to acknowledge them DOES NOT MATTER. You pick and choose statistical problems out of a book, congratulations. I use my eyes and ears and I see undocumented problems developing through my own observations, I did through the roots. Not to worry, I will not share any more of these problems with you again.
"You asked, so i'll answer. In this case, "you guys" would consist of HERESY, Tenkamenin, SOLO, EDJ, Lacahontes (and others) who have all participated in discussions with me in this forum. Oh, what, you though I meant "black" people by saying "you guys"? Sorry to let you down EDJ, but your the lone racist in this thread."
Read, then speak son.
:dead::H::dead:
PS: I sincerely apologize for mis-spelling your name this entire time, nothing personal.
I don't think it really even compares. Poverty is probably the most damaging to a young childs life above all else. The thing is, not everyone has a chance to expierence it. Most cats just hear about it, watch it on some t.v. show, read about it in a news article, and when they're finished, they shut off the tube and get back to their own life. Who knows, maybe even ponder the though of it for a day or two, then eventually forget about it. On the other hand, whether your living in poverty or in the suburbs, RAP music has a way of reaching you. You might need several thousand dollars to make your way out of a poverty stricken environment, but you need nothing to hear the negetivity from RAP music.
Keep in mind that im not saying all RAP music is negetive or evil. In fact, I don't think there is anything wrong with mature humans listening to it, regardless the message it sends. Most of us on this board are at an age where we can decipher between what are just words, and real life expierences. We have the ability to NOT let it affect our way of thinking. So when I listen to Hit'em up, or Shoot'em up (NaS) I know it's just a form of entertainment. On the other hand, when a kid listens to these songs, he make began to think he wants to be hard... he wants to be a gangsta' just like Tupac. It is not hard to influence the mind of a young child, and I believe music can play a huge factor in the developement of a youth.
There is nothing wrong with grouping the opressors under the catagory of "WHITE". The difference here is, your defenition of "WHITE" and society's defenition of "WHITE" are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If YOU catagorize all of the opressors, and call them "WHITE" people, then you are not generalizing, not one single bit. However, society defines a "WHITE" person, not as an opressor, but as anyone with "WHITE" skin, or TAN skin for that matter. So YOU saying that all "WHITE" people are opressors is not a problem, because you and I both know of how we define such stereotypes. When society says all "WHITE" people are opressors, they are saying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON, German, Russian, Jewish, Australian, Canadian, French, Irish, Italian, etc. etc. ARE ALL OPRESSORS. In that, they are GENERALIZING THE WHITE RACE, which to me, is a HUGE problem because you have countless "WHITE" people fighting poverty and aiding the advancement of African Americans. These people are opressors as well? Do you see the problem now SOLO? I don't want to be classified under the same catagory as ANY opressor if that catagory is widely known to be RACIST or EVIL.
I highly respect that. I speak on these very same things, some people don't understand that first hand expierence with a problem is far more valid than any document can be. Having said that, I will never ask you for proof (unless I question your observations) on anything you post ever again. When questioned about my source in the "Who should be responsible..." thread, I replied almost identically the way you did, it didn't go very well at all.
I hope I only have to say this once more, because I really do grow weary of this question beings asked time and time again. If you see me saying "you folks" or "you guys" then I am talking about those that I converse with on this board, or those that are directly involved in the present conversation (who in any form oppose my views), not African Americans as you surely want to believe.
The only problem I have, is with this statement right here...
"Unfortunately the majority of so-called whites exploit black art forms for their own benefit while holding onto their white supremacist beliefs."
Notice the bold. So I will KINDLY ASK you to do one of the following. Either retract that statement, or explain to me how the MAJORITY of "WHITE" rap fans hold WHITE SUPREMACIST BELIEFS. Even I would agree that, SOME of these so-called fans might cherish these thoughts. Some probably don't even hide it, but by saying the MAJORITY, your saying A LOT.
So who is the lucky inventor of rap, Mr. Ice himself?
There arn't that many people. If you look through the threads that I have been involved in, not only will you find that more people disagree with my "opposition" then myself, but you will notice that the people are unique, in that there are different users who frequently surface to (indirectly) agree with me. Now as for those that disagree with me, it is to my knowledge they are ALL African American. HERSEY, Tenk, EDJ, Lacohontes and now YOU are the only cats that I can remember noticably disagreeing with me on anything. Now I must ask you, what is a knowledgable black... Those that agree and share the same views as you?
The same man the labeled me a RACIST and a PREJUDICE? OK!
Im not blaming the victim. If anything, im trying to stop the victim from placing so much blame on others. There is a difference.
Keep in mind that im not saying all RAP music is negetive or evil. In fact, I don't think there is anything wrong with mature humans listening to it, regardless the message it sends. Most of us on this board are at an age where we can decipher between what are just words, and real life expierences. We have the ability to NOT let it affect our way of thinking. So when I listen to Hit'em up, or Shoot'em up (NaS) I know it's just a form of entertainment. On the other hand, when a kid listens to these songs, he make began to think he wants to be hard... he wants to be a gangsta' just like Tupac. It is not hard to influence the mind of a young child, and I believe music can play a huge factor in the developement of a youth.
There is nothing wrong with grouping the opressors under the catagory of "WHITE". The difference here is, your defenition of "WHITE" and society's defenition of "WHITE" are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. If YOU catagorize all of the opressors, and call them "WHITE" people, then you are not generalizing, not one single bit. However, society defines a "WHITE" person, not as an opressor, but as anyone with "WHITE" skin, or TAN skin for that matter. So YOU saying that all "WHITE" people are opressors is not a problem, because you and I both know of how we define such stereotypes. When society says all "WHITE" people are opressors, they are saying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON, German, Russian, Jewish, Australian, Canadian, French, Irish, Italian, etc. etc. ARE ALL OPRESSORS. In that, they are GENERALIZING THE WHITE RACE, which to me, is a HUGE problem because you have countless "WHITE" people fighting poverty and aiding the advancement of African Americans. These people are opressors as well? Do you see the problem now SOLO? I don't want to be classified under the same catagory as ANY opressor if that catagory is widely known to be RACIST or EVIL.
I highly respect that. I speak on these very same things, some people don't understand that first hand expierence with a problem is far more valid than any document can be. Having said that, I will never ask you for proof (unless I question your observations) on anything you post ever again. When questioned about my source in the "Who should be responsible..." thread, I replied almost identically the way you did, it didn't go very well at all.
I hope I only have to say this once more, because I really do grow weary of this question beings asked time and time again. If you see me saying "you folks" or "you guys" then I am talking about those that I converse with on this board, or those that are directly involved in the present conversation (who in any form oppose my views), not African Americans as you surely want to believe.
The only problem I have, is with this statement right here...
"Unfortunately the majority of so-called whites exploit black art forms for their own benefit while holding onto their white supremacist beliefs."
Notice the bold. So I will KINDLY ASK you to do one of the following. Either retract that statement, or explain to me how the MAJORITY of "WHITE" rap fans hold WHITE SUPREMACIST BELIEFS. Even I would agree that, SOME of these so-called fans might cherish these thoughts. Some probably don't even hide it, but by saying the MAJORITY, your saying A LOT.
So who is the lucky inventor of rap, Mr. Ice himself?
There arn't that many people. If you look through the threads that I have been involved in, not only will you find that more people disagree with my "opposition" then myself, but you will notice that the people are unique, in that there are different users who frequently surface to (indirectly) agree with me. Now as for those that disagree with me, it is to my knowledge they are ALL African American. HERSEY, Tenk, EDJ, Lacohontes and now YOU are the only cats that I can remember noticably disagreeing with me on anything. Now I must ask you, what is a knowledgable black... Those that agree and share the same views as you?
The same man the labeled me a RACIST and a PREJUDICE? OK!
Im not blaming the victim. If anything, im trying to stop the victim from placing so much blame on others. There is a difference.
well so far SOLO does NOT agree with you and your "problem".
here are his words:
As far as him agreeing with me thats not the point. The point is that you have had more than enough time to explain these "problems". refer to the thread: "who should be responisble for the problems in the black community".
PEEP MY LAST REPLY TO *YOU*. NOTHING YOU HAVE STATED HAS LEAD ME (OR OTHERS) TO BELIEVE THAT *YOU* KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
once again what you are listing as a "PROBLEM" isnt really a problem at all... WHAT YOU LIST AS A PROBLEM IS NOT DETRIMENTAL TO THE EXISTENCE OF THE BLACK RACE. IN THE OTHER THREAD I LISTED PROBLEMS SUCH AS BLACKS NOT NETWORKING WITH BLACKS, NOT INVESTING, NOT MAKING EDUCATION A PRIORITY, UNSAFE SEX AND CRIME. YOU FAILED/REFUSED TO ELABORATE ON ANY OF THOSE SUBJECTS. INSTEAD OF ATTACKING ME ATTACK THE SUBJECTS AT HAND. THOSE PROBLEMS HAVE A SEVERE IMPACT ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY. YOUR PROBLEM DOESNT.
NO NOT AT ALL BUT NOT ONE PERSON HAS AGREED WITH YOU AND YOUR "PROBLEM".
I ACKNOWLEDGE BLACKS IN PRISON AS A PROBLEM. I ACKNOWLEDGE AIDS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY AS A PROBLEM. I ACKNOWLEDGE THE LACK OF EDUCATION AS A PROBLEM. I ACKNOWLEDGE THE CRIME RATE IN URBAN AREAS AS A PROBLEM. I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE "GENERALIZATION OF THE WHITE RACE" AS A PROBLEM THAT CAN ULTIMATELY DESTROY THE VERY EXISTENCE OF THE BLACK RACE. YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT *DOCUMENTED*. THE PROBLEMS I LIST ARE. LETS DEAL WITH THOSE. STATISTICAL PROBLEMS OUT OF A BOOK? WHAT BOOK NITRO? PLEASE NAME THIS BOOK.
IM PICKING PROBLEMS THAT I ***SEE*** WITH ***MY*** OWN EYES. AS I TOLD YOU IN THE OTHER THREAD LETS THROW BOOKS AND STATISTICS OUT. YOU FAILED TO REPLY.
GREAT! THAT WAY I WONT HAVE TO FILTER THROUGH A BUNCH OF B.S.!!!!!! DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING ME A SERVICE OR DISERVICE?
YESSUH MASSA YOU BE ATUOMATIKALLY ASSUMIN DAT SINCE AH BE POSTIN WHUT CHU BE DONE TYPED DAT AH DINT UNDASTAND OH READ WHUT CHU HAD BE DONE TYPED. NEX TIME MASSAH AH BE A GOOD LIL BOI N I BE READIN ALL DAT DER DAT U BE DONE WROTE...
WHAT I TYPED ("YOU GUYS" ,"YOU FOLKS") HAS ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH EDJ *OR* YOUR REPLY TO HIM.
THANKS JUNIOR.
:h:
here are his words:
As far as him agreeing with me thats not the point. The point is that you have had more than enough time to explain these "problems". refer to the thread: "who should be responisble for the problems in the black community".
PEEP MY LAST REPLY TO *YOU*. NOTHING YOU HAVE STATED HAS LEAD ME (OR OTHERS) TO BELIEVE THAT *YOU* KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
once again what you are listing as a "PROBLEM" isnt really a problem at all... WHAT YOU LIST AS A PROBLEM IS NOT DETRIMENTAL TO THE EXISTENCE OF THE BLACK RACE. IN THE OTHER THREAD I LISTED PROBLEMS SUCH AS BLACKS NOT NETWORKING WITH BLACKS, NOT INVESTING, NOT MAKING EDUCATION A PRIORITY, UNSAFE SEX AND CRIME. YOU FAILED/REFUSED TO ELABORATE ON ANY OF THOSE SUBJECTS. INSTEAD OF ATTACKING ME ATTACK THE SUBJECTS AT HAND. THOSE PROBLEMS HAVE A SEVERE IMPACT ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY. YOUR PROBLEM DOESNT.
NO NOT AT ALL BUT NOT ONE PERSON HAS AGREED WITH YOU AND YOUR "PROBLEM".
I ACKNOWLEDGE BLACKS IN PRISON AS A PROBLEM. I ACKNOWLEDGE AIDS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY AS A PROBLEM. I ACKNOWLEDGE THE LACK OF EDUCATION AS A PROBLEM. I ACKNOWLEDGE THE CRIME RATE IN URBAN AREAS AS A PROBLEM. I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE "GENERALIZATION OF THE WHITE RACE" AS A PROBLEM THAT CAN ULTIMATELY DESTROY THE VERY EXISTENCE OF THE BLACK RACE. YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT *DOCUMENTED*. THE PROBLEMS I LIST ARE. LETS DEAL WITH THOSE. STATISTICAL PROBLEMS OUT OF A BOOK? WHAT BOOK NITRO? PLEASE NAME THIS BOOK.
IM PICKING PROBLEMS THAT I ***SEE*** WITH ***MY*** OWN EYES. AS I TOLD YOU IN THE OTHER THREAD LETS THROW BOOKS AND STATISTICS OUT. YOU FAILED TO REPLY.
GREAT! THAT WAY I WONT HAVE TO FILTER THROUGH A BUNCH OF B.S.!!!!!! DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING ME A SERVICE OR DISERVICE?
YESSUH MASSA YOU BE ATUOMATIKALLY ASSUMIN DAT SINCE AH BE POSTIN WHUT CHU BE DONE TYPED DAT AH DINT UNDASTAND OH READ WHUT CHU HAD BE DONE TYPED. NEX TIME MASSAH AH BE A GOOD LIL BOI N I BE READIN ALL DAT DER DAT U BE DONE WROTE...
WHAT I TYPED ("YOU GUYS" ,"YOU FOLKS") HAS ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH EDJ *OR* YOUR REPLY TO HIM.
THANKS JUNIOR.
:h:
Thats because I haven't discussed it yet dipshit. If you would have read my post it says "We'll see what your friend SOLO thinks about 'The generilization of the white race' after reading my next post." Read first, then talk.
And nothing you have said has lead me (or others) to believe you have ANY CLUE about what you are talking about.
Once again, yes it is a "PROBLEM" that you choose to DISMISS because it doesn't fit in with your beliefs.
They are ALL detrimental to the "BLACK" race.
That's right, I refused to discuss those issues with you, mostly because their irrelevance. Correct me if im wrong but this thread was NOT entitled "The problems that plague the BLACK race". There was a topic of a thread, I responded to it, then you shoot me 20 topics and talked shit because I didn't discuss them with you? You sound like some FAG on the playground who can't get another kid to play with you. I could list a number of issues in this thread that you could not possibly discuss, so fucking what? The only issue being discussed in that topic was 1. Who holds the responsibility for fixing black problems..." and 2. The questioning of NITRO's proposed problems (which you forced upon the thread straying it off topic). I read NO sign at the entrance of that thread saying I have to discuss WHATEVER HERESY WANTS.
**** ATTENTION EVERYONE READING ****
I SHARED MY POINTS OF VIEW WITH OTHERS ON THIS BOARD ABOUT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS I SEE IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY. HE COULD NOT DISCUSS OR ACKNOWLEDGE A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, JUST HIS USUAL COP-OUT "THATS NOT A PROBLEM!" BITCH PLEASE. INSTEAD, HE TURNED IT INTO A TOUGHMAN COMPETITION WHERE HE SHOT ME 20 IRRELEVANT TOPICS AND INSISTED THAT I ANSWER THEM. I TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS NO POINT IN DISCUSSING THEM IN DETAIL, AS I WAS FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS HE LISTED (I TOLD THIS TO HIM NUMEROUS TIMES), AND I ACKNOWLEDGED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. TO THIS DAY HE STILL YAPS HIS TRAP ABOUT ME NOT DISCUSSING THEM, WHO REALLY GIVES A FUCK? I DIDN'T DISCUSS THE HOLE IN THE O-ZONE LAYER EITHER. THIS COWARD WILL CRITICIZE YOU AND SHIT-TALK YOU OVER AND OVER FOR NOT SEEING THINGS HIS WAY, AT THE SAME TIME HE DISMISSES EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT HIM AS IF IT WAS NOTHING. THIS MAN WILL CONSTANTLY USE HIS PARTNERS AGREEING WITH HIM FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT. WOW HERESY, ILL GO GET MY BROTHER AND SISTER TO COME ON THIS BOARD AND TALK SHIT TO YOU WHILE AGREEING WITH EVERYTHING I SAY, DUMBSHIT.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT THREAD, AND YES, GO VIEW IT FOR YOURSELF.
**** END OF NOTICE ****
That line proves your a hypocrite. EVERYONE READ THIS LINE, THEN GO VIEW THE "WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE..." THREAD WHERE HE "ATTACKED" ME WITH COUNTLESS TOPICS, THEN I REJECTED TO DISCUSS, AS I (NOT HIM) WANTED TO STICK TO THE SUBJECTS AT HAND.
Oh thats strange. How could someone disagree with my problem, when I haven't even discussed them? Or are you going to switch your story up again and tell everyone that I DID discuss them.. or maybe EVERYONE is reading my mind?
No one agreed with my problem? Out of FIVE African Americans, none of them agreed with a PROBLEM presented by a "WHITE" man. ** WOW** I presented that problem in the before mentioned thread.
I acknowledge them all as well, with both "WHITE" and "BLACK" people.
And that my friend, is the problem.
FUUUUUUCK YOUR LIST OF PROBLEMS. Is that all you talk about? Here is the difference HERESY, I NEVER DENIED THE EXISTANCE OF YOUR PROBLEMS, SO LEAVE THEM BE. My beliefs are not documented? ITS IS BECAUSE I GET THEM FROM MY OWN LIFE EXPIERENCES AND OBSERVATIONS. IS YOUR HETEROSEXUALITY DOCUMENTED? YOU MUST BE A FAGGOT!
Then 2 lines later he says...
"IM PICKING PROBLEMS THAT I ***SEE*** WITH ***MY*** OWN EYES."
What the fuck is going on with this kid?
Ok here is my reply..
OK HERESY LETS THROW THEM OUT THE WINDOW
Wow, I feel much better. I have been worrying about that "failed reply" for days now.
We'll see which one when you ask me to discuss a problem.
THATS RIGHT BOY.
I never said it did, you made those rediculous comments in a post made to me, I quoted myself explaining what I meant by saying "you folks" and "you guys". Who the fuck said those comments pertained to EDJ or my reply to him? I just didn't want to type that shit out again.
:dead: :dead: :H: :dead: :dead:
GAME OVER TOM
And nothing you have said has lead me (or others) to believe you have ANY CLUE about what you are talking about.
Once again, yes it is a "PROBLEM" that you choose to DISMISS because it doesn't fit in with your beliefs.
They are ALL detrimental to the "BLACK" race.
That's right, I refused to discuss those issues with you, mostly because their irrelevance. Correct me if im wrong but this thread was NOT entitled "The problems that plague the BLACK race". There was a topic of a thread, I responded to it, then you shoot me 20 topics and talked shit because I didn't discuss them with you? You sound like some FAG on the playground who can't get another kid to play with you. I could list a number of issues in this thread that you could not possibly discuss, so fucking what? The only issue being discussed in that topic was 1. Who holds the responsibility for fixing black problems..." and 2. The questioning of NITRO's proposed problems (which you forced upon the thread straying it off topic). I read NO sign at the entrance of that thread saying I have to discuss WHATEVER HERESY WANTS.
**** ATTENTION EVERYONE READING ****
I SHARED MY POINTS OF VIEW WITH OTHERS ON THIS BOARD ABOUT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS I SEE IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY. HE COULD NOT DISCUSS OR ACKNOWLEDGE A SINGLE ONE OF THEM, JUST HIS USUAL COP-OUT "THATS NOT A PROBLEM!" BITCH PLEASE. INSTEAD, HE TURNED IT INTO A TOUGHMAN COMPETITION WHERE HE SHOT ME 20 IRRELEVANT TOPICS AND INSISTED THAT I ANSWER THEM. I TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS NO POINT IN DISCUSSING THEM IN DETAIL, AS I WAS FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS HE LISTED (I TOLD THIS TO HIM NUMEROUS TIMES), AND I ACKNOWLEDGED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. TO THIS DAY HE STILL YAPS HIS TRAP ABOUT ME NOT DISCUSSING THEM, WHO REALLY GIVES A FUCK? I DIDN'T DISCUSS THE HOLE IN THE O-ZONE LAYER EITHER. THIS COWARD WILL CRITICIZE YOU AND SHIT-TALK YOU OVER AND OVER FOR NOT SEEING THINGS HIS WAY, AT THE SAME TIME HE DISMISSES EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT HIM AS IF IT WAS NOTHING. THIS MAN WILL CONSTANTLY USE HIS PARTNERS AGREEING WITH HIM FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT. WOW HERESY, ILL GO GET MY BROTHER AND SISTER TO COME ON THIS BOARD AND TALK SHIT TO YOU WHILE AGREEING WITH EVERYTHING I SAY, DUMBSHIT.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT THREAD, AND YES, GO VIEW IT FOR YOURSELF.
**** END OF NOTICE ****
That line proves your a hypocrite. EVERYONE READ THIS LINE, THEN GO VIEW THE "WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE..." THREAD WHERE HE "ATTACKED" ME WITH COUNTLESS TOPICS, THEN I REJECTED TO DISCUSS, AS I (NOT HIM) WANTED TO STICK TO THE SUBJECTS AT HAND.
Oh thats strange. How could someone disagree with my problem, when I haven't even discussed them? Or are you going to switch your story up again and tell everyone that I DID discuss them.. or maybe EVERYONE is reading my mind?
No one agreed with my problem? Out of FIVE African Americans, none of them agreed with a PROBLEM presented by a "WHITE" man. ** WOW** I presented that problem in the before mentioned thread.
I acknowledge them all as well, with both "WHITE" and "BLACK" people.
And that my friend, is the problem.
FUUUUUUCK YOUR LIST OF PROBLEMS. Is that all you talk about? Here is the difference HERESY, I NEVER DENIED THE EXISTANCE OF YOUR PROBLEMS, SO LEAVE THEM BE. My beliefs are not documented? ITS IS BECAUSE I GET THEM FROM MY OWN LIFE EXPIERENCES AND OBSERVATIONS. IS YOUR HETEROSEXUALITY DOCUMENTED? YOU MUST BE A FAGGOT!
Then 2 lines later he says...
"IM PICKING PROBLEMS THAT I ***SEE*** WITH ***MY*** OWN EYES."
What the fuck is going on with this kid?
Ok here is my reply..
OK HERESY LETS THROW THEM OUT THE WINDOW
Wow, I feel much better. I have been worrying about that "failed reply" for days now.
We'll see which one when you ask me to discuss a problem.
THATS RIGHT BOY.
I never said it did, you made those rediculous comments in a post made to me, I quoted myself explaining what I meant by saying "you folks" and "you guys". Who the fuck said those comments pertained to EDJ or my reply to him? I just didn't want to type that shit out again.
:dead: :dead: :H: :dead: :dead:
GAME OVER TOM
NO DOUGH!!!!!!
maybe you should read first before YOU talk. SO FAR HE HAS NOT AGREED WITH *YOU*. I DONT NEED HIM TO AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH ME. YOU ARE THE ONE IN QUESTION. NOT I.
HE ALREADY SAID THAT HE DOESNT AGREE WITH YOUR "PROBLEM" AND MY RESPONSE WAS IN REGARDS TO WHAT *HE* SAID ABOUT *YOUR* PROBLEM. SO IF HE **CHANGES** HIS VIEW THATS UP TO *HIM* HOWEVER HE HAS ALREADY MADE HIMSELF VERY CLEAR ON THE MATTER. NOT TRUE. READ POSTS BY OTHER MEMBERS IN THIS THREAD.AFTER THAT REFER TO THE "WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE THREAD". MANY PEOPLE AGREED WITH ME SQUARE. I DISMISS IT BECAUSE ITS NOT A VALID "PROBLEM". LETS WORK ON GETTING THE AIDS RATE DOWN IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY (ESPECIALLY AMONGST BLACK MALES).
SEE THE ABOVE. I DIDNT ASK YOU TO DISCUSS THEM WITH *ANYONE* IN THIS THREAD. HERE IS WHAT I SAID JUNIOR: PLEASE READ THIS AGAIN.
THE OTHER THREAD WAS TITLED "WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY". BLACKS NOT NETWORKING,INVESTING ,PRACTICING UNSAFE SEX ETC ETC ETC ARE PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY THAT ARE RELEVENT TO THE TOPIC.I DOTN SEE HOW YOU CAN MENTION "IRRELEVANCE"....LOL! ONCE AGAIN I SAID NOTHING ABOUT THIS THREAD. SEE THE ABOVE.
I DIDNT SHOOT YOU 20 TOPICS AND TALK SHIT TO YOU. HERE ARE EXCERPTS FROM MY REPLY TO YOU (IN THAT THREAD).
YOU MADE STATEMENTS AND I ASKED YOU TO BACK THEM. WHEN ASKED TO ELABORATE YOU REPLIED WITH THE FOLLOWING: AND WOW! I WAS RIGHT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
:dead: STOP CONFUSING ME WITH YOUR PEDOPHILLE FATHER.
LOL! PLEASE LIST THEM! YOU DISCUSSED THEM AND NOT ONE PERSON AGREED WITH YOU. INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON ME YOU SHOULD HAVE FOCUSED ON THE ISSUES.
http://siccness.net/vb/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=69361
TO EVERYONE READING THIS MAN IS A LIAR. PLEASE REFER TO THE THREAD PROVIDED. I GAVE REPLIES TO HIS SO CALLED "PROBLEMS"
http://siccness.net/vb/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=69361
HERE IS AN EXCERPT (I TYPED THIS):
STOP LYING NITRO.
I ANSWERED HIM IN PREVIOUS POSTS FOUND IN THAT THREAD.
maybe you should read first before YOU talk. SO FAR HE HAS NOT AGREED WITH *YOU*. I DONT NEED HIM TO AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH ME. YOU ARE THE ONE IN QUESTION. NOT I.
HE ALREADY SAID THAT HE DOESNT AGREE WITH YOUR "PROBLEM" AND MY RESPONSE WAS IN REGARDS TO WHAT *HE* SAID ABOUT *YOUR* PROBLEM. SO IF HE **CHANGES** HIS VIEW THATS UP TO *HIM* HOWEVER HE HAS ALREADY MADE HIMSELF VERY CLEAR ON THE MATTER. NOT TRUE. READ POSTS BY OTHER MEMBERS IN THIS THREAD.AFTER THAT REFER TO THE "WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE THREAD". MANY PEOPLE AGREED WITH ME SQUARE. I DISMISS IT BECAUSE ITS NOT A VALID "PROBLEM". LETS WORK ON GETTING THE AIDS RATE DOWN IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY (ESPECIALLY AMONGST BLACK MALES).
SEE THE ABOVE. I DIDNT ASK YOU TO DISCUSS THEM WITH *ANYONE* IN THIS THREAD. HERE IS WHAT I SAID JUNIOR: PLEASE READ THIS AGAIN.
THE OTHER THREAD WAS TITLED "WHO SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY". BLACKS NOT NETWORKING,INVESTING ,PRACTICING UNSAFE SEX ETC ETC ETC ARE PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY THAT ARE RELEVENT TO THE TOPIC.I DOTN SEE HOW YOU CAN MENTION "IRRELEVANCE"....LOL! ONCE AGAIN I SAID NOTHING ABOUT THIS THREAD. SEE THE ABOVE.
I DIDNT SHOOT YOU 20 TOPICS AND TALK SHIT TO YOU. HERE ARE EXCERPTS FROM MY REPLY TO YOU (IN THAT THREAD).
YOU MADE STATEMENTS AND I ASKED YOU TO BACK THEM. WHEN ASKED TO ELABORATE YOU REPLIED WITH THE FOLLOWING: AND WOW! I WAS RIGHT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
:dead: STOP CONFUSING ME WITH YOUR PEDOPHILLE FATHER.
LOL! PLEASE LIST THEM! YOU DISCUSSED THEM AND NOT ONE PERSON AGREED WITH YOU. INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON ME YOU SHOULD HAVE FOCUSED ON THE ISSUES.
http://siccness.net/vb/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=69361
TO EVERYONE READING THIS MAN IS A LIAR. PLEASE REFER TO THE THREAD PROVIDED. I GAVE REPLIES TO HIS SO CALLED "PROBLEMS"
http://siccness.net/vb/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=69361
HERE IS AN EXCERPT (I TYPED THIS):
STOP LYING NITRO.
I ANSWERED HIM IN PREVIOUS POSTS FOUND IN THAT THREAD.
EVERYONE NITRO IS A LIAR. ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASSION I MENTIONED HIS USE OF FOUL LANGUAGE. I EVEN POSTED AN EXCERPT OF IT IN THIS POST.
I REPLIED TO HIM IN AN ORDERLY AND FAIR FASHION HOWEVER THAT FAVOR WAS NOT RETURNED.
NO ONE ELSE IN THE THREAD (AS FAR AS I COULD TELL) FELT THE PROBLEMS WERE "IRRELEVANT" EXCEPT FOR NITRO.
TENK,XIANEX,EDJ,GUILLOTINE AND LOCA ALL CONSIDERED THEM TO BE RELEVENT AND DISCUSSED THEM IN SOME SHAPE OR FASHION.
I CONSTANTLY TOLD NITRO THAT IT WASNT A BATTLE OF "WITS". HE DIDNT SEE IT THAT WAY. NITRO STATES THAT HE WAS FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS LISTED YET HE MADE STATEMENTS LIKE THESE AND WOW! THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE SIMPLY NOT TRUE. I WONT DEVOTE MUCH ENERGY TO THEM. I WILL SAY THIS HOWEVER. IF IM SUCH A COWARD LETS MEET IN PERSON. IS TEH SICCNESS BBQ STILL ON? IF SO WILL YOU BE PRESENT? WHEN THEY SEE IT THEY WILL SEE THROUGH YOUR LIES. EVERYONE WILL SEE THAT YOU ARE LYING WHEN THEY ARE FINISHED WITH THIS POST OR HIT THE OTHER THREAD. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ATTACKED ME AND CONSTANTLY USED FOUL LANGUAGE. I ATTACKED YOUR "PROBLEMS" AND POINTS. I ASKED YOU IF YOU COULD ARTICULATE WITHOUT CURSING AND I CONSTANTLY TOLD YOU TO STICK WITH THE ISSUES. ONCE AGAIN DUMMY DID YOU PAY ATTENTION TO SOLO'S RESPONSE? DID YOU READ THAT EINSTEIN? BECAUSE IT WASNT A "PROBLEM". THATS FINE AND DANDY. NOPE. LMAO! "TYPICAL" RESPONSE FROM ONE OF "YOUR" KIND...
AVOID THE ISSUES OF AIDS,PRISON RATE,ECONOMICS ETC ETC ETC IN TEH BLACK COMMUNITY...YEAH "FUUUUUUCK" THEM.
BUT I DENIED YOURS. NOT ONLY THAT BUT SEVERAL PEOPLE DENIED YOURS.
SUUUUUUUUURE!
THATS NOT WHAT YOUR CUNTING SISTER AND MOTHER SAID THE OTHER NIGHT!
I SEE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. I DONT SEE YOURS.
WE CAN BUT IT STILL DOESNT CHANGE ANYTHING.
YOU ALREADY SAID "FUUUUUCK" MY PROBLEMS. YOU FAILED TO ELABORATE WHEN I ASKED YOU NO. YOU DONT HAVE TO DISCUSS ANYTHING.
DAT BE FO SHO RIGHT MASSAH BUT BEST KNOW DAT IF AH EVA BE SEEIN YOU OFFLINE DAT I BE FO SHO HABBIN YO BOY RIGHT HURE....
NO I MADE THOSE COMMENTS IN A POST MADE TO SOLO. HE IS THE ONE I QUOTED. NOT YOU. GET IT STRAIGHT...BETTER YET YOU KNOW WHAT TO GET RIGHT? BITCH GET WHAT? WHEN YOU EXPLAINED IT WHO DID YOU EXPLAIN IT TO? IF IM NOT MISTAKING IT WAS EDJ. IF IT WASNT EDJ MY BAD.
I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT YOU MEANT WHEN YOU POSTED IT. WHEN *I* POSTED IT IT HAD ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH *YOUR* RESPONSE.
DUMMY.
AS I SAID BEFORE TOM IS A GREAT NAME. ESPECIALLY UNCLE TOM. HE TRIED TO FREE THE NEGROES.
SEE YA LATER PETER (DICK)
:h:
PS YOU INBREDS SURE GET RILED UP QUICKLY. ACCORDING TO YOU IM A DIPSHIT ,FAGGOT AND HYPOCRITE. ALL I SAID WAS YOU EITHER DONT UNDERSTAND OR ARE IN DENIAL.
I REPLIED TO HIM IN AN ORDERLY AND FAIR FASHION HOWEVER THAT FAVOR WAS NOT RETURNED.
NO ONE ELSE IN THE THREAD (AS FAR AS I COULD TELL) FELT THE PROBLEMS WERE "IRRELEVANT" EXCEPT FOR NITRO.
TENK,XIANEX,EDJ,GUILLOTINE AND LOCA ALL CONSIDERED THEM TO BE RELEVENT AND DISCUSSED THEM IN SOME SHAPE OR FASHION.
I CONSTANTLY TOLD NITRO THAT IT WASNT A BATTLE OF "WITS". HE DIDNT SEE IT THAT WAY. NITRO STATES THAT HE WAS FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS LISTED YET HE MADE STATEMENTS LIKE THESE AND WOW! THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE SIMPLY NOT TRUE. I WONT DEVOTE MUCH ENERGY TO THEM. I WILL SAY THIS HOWEVER. IF IM SUCH A COWARD LETS MEET IN PERSON. IS TEH SICCNESS BBQ STILL ON? IF SO WILL YOU BE PRESENT? WHEN THEY SEE IT THEY WILL SEE THROUGH YOUR LIES. EVERYONE WILL SEE THAT YOU ARE LYING WHEN THEY ARE FINISHED WITH THIS POST OR HIT THE OTHER THREAD. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ATTACKED ME AND CONSTANTLY USED FOUL LANGUAGE. I ATTACKED YOUR "PROBLEMS" AND POINTS. I ASKED YOU IF YOU COULD ARTICULATE WITHOUT CURSING AND I CONSTANTLY TOLD YOU TO STICK WITH THE ISSUES. ONCE AGAIN DUMMY DID YOU PAY ATTENTION TO SOLO'S RESPONSE? DID YOU READ THAT EINSTEIN? BECAUSE IT WASNT A "PROBLEM". THATS FINE AND DANDY. NOPE. LMAO! "TYPICAL" RESPONSE FROM ONE OF "YOUR" KIND...
AVOID THE ISSUES OF AIDS,PRISON RATE,ECONOMICS ETC ETC ETC IN TEH BLACK COMMUNITY...YEAH "FUUUUUUCK" THEM.
BUT I DENIED YOURS. NOT ONLY THAT BUT SEVERAL PEOPLE DENIED YOURS.
SUUUUUUUUURE!
THATS NOT WHAT YOUR CUNTING SISTER AND MOTHER SAID THE OTHER NIGHT!
I SEE THESE PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. I DONT SEE YOURS.
WE CAN BUT IT STILL DOESNT CHANGE ANYTHING.
YOU ALREADY SAID "FUUUUUCK" MY PROBLEMS. YOU FAILED TO ELABORATE WHEN I ASKED YOU NO. YOU DONT HAVE TO DISCUSS ANYTHING.
DAT BE FO SHO RIGHT MASSAH BUT BEST KNOW DAT IF AH EVA BE SEEIN YOU OFFLINE DAT I BE FO SHO HABBIN YO BOY RIGHT HURE....
NO I MADE THOSE COMMENTS IN A POST MADE TO SOLO. HE IS THE ONE I QUOTED. NOT YOU. GET IT STRAIGHT...BETTER YET YOU KNOW WHAT TO GET RIGHT? BITCH GET WHAT? WHEN YOU EXPLAINED IT WHO DID YOU EXPLAIN IT TO? IF IM NOT MISTAKING IT WAS EDJ. IF IT WASNT EDJ MY BAD.
I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT YOU MEANT WHEN YOU POSTED IT. WHEN *I* POSTED IT IT HAD ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH *YOUR* RESPONSE.
DUMMY.
AS I SAID BEFORE TOM IS A GREAT NAME. ESPECIALLY UNCLE TOM. HE TRIED TO FREE THE NEGROES.
SEE YA LATER PETER (DICK)
:h:
PS YOU INBREDS SURE GET RILED UP QUICKLY. ACCORDING TO YOU IM A DIPSHIT ,FAGGOT AND HYPOCRITE. ALL I SAID WAS YOU EITHER DONT UNDERSTAND OR ARE IN DENIAL.
Yup. See below.
Society does not define a "white" person as anyone with white or tan skin. In the early 1900s, and until 1971, the courts ruled for purposes of immigration and school desegregation that Mexicans were white. This ruling was irrespective of skin color. The courts have similarly flip-flopped about the definition of whiteness to include immigrants from other countries who did not have white or tan skin. Besides, Jason Kidd has tan skin, does that make him white? I sat out in the sun for a while and came back with tan skin, does that make ME white? No, the only thing that "white" signifies is an ideology of supremacy and oppression.
The Germans, Russian, Jews, Australians, Canadians, French, Irish, and the Italian were not oppressors (of blacks) UNTIL THEY BECAME WHITE--in other words, decided that they were "white" (and not black) and chose to uphold and endorse white supremacy. In most of those cases they had previously been the oppressed. James Baldwin argued that the Jews, for instance, came to America BECAUSE they were oppressed and opted to become white, after which they became oppressors alongside all other whites. The Catholic Irish were oppressed in Ireland and came to American and became white as well, endorsing slavery and stepping on the necks of blacks for their own success. Now you see why I have no problem referring to whites as oppressive and why I have no problem with "the generalization of the white race."
You seem to have discovered the truth of what James Baldwin meant when he wrote, "As long as you think you're white, there's no hope for you."
If the majority of so-called white rap fans DIDN'T hold white supremacist beliefs then they would have a much more healthy relationship with the music and with blacks in general. Instead they continue to cherish white supremacy and the result is an unhealthy and perverse relationship with the music characterized by exploitation, idolatry, impotentce, fear and psychological confusion. This demonstrates itself in the whole "wigger" phenomenon. If white rap fans did not cherish white supremacy they would not feel the need to caricature and commodify a culture while ignoring the roots of its creation. If white rap fans didn't hold white supremacist beliefs and could admit to themselves that black people alone created rap then you would not have people on the Siccness arguing that Africa was "uncivilized" while Europeans were "traveling" around the globe "discovering" things...or claiming that Jews should get credit for the "organized crime" theme in rap music....If the majority of them did not hold white supremacist beliefs then more people would be struggling alongside blacks instead of worrying about the "generalization" of the oppressor...
I could keep going...
If you want some "documented evidence" of white rap fans and internalized white supremacy, you can check out Wimsatt's Bomb The Suburbs. It should be available at your local university library. Check out the article "We Use Words Like Mackadocious," it's like the second article. It's about "white rap fans," and it's food for thought on the subject.
It's not a loaded term. I meant people on here who seem well informed, committed to struggling for black causes and who have spoken their minds on this board. As far as agreeing and sharing the same views as me, I don't see perfectly eye-to-eye with anyone on this board and that's not my criterion for being knowledgeable.
I disagree with you--I don't see them as different. By "trying to stop the victim from placing...blame on others" you are indirectly making the victim (in other words, the oppressed) responsible for his own lot in life...and absolving the oppressors from responsibility. That is akin to blaming the victim. Like the distinction I made earlier, I believe it is far more important to concentrate on fighting white supremacy instead of concentrating on stopping blacks from "blaming others."
It seems like your effort is invested in changing where blacks place the blame for their oppression.......instead, why don't you invest your effort in fighting the oppressor?
Society does not define a "white" person as anyone with white or tan skin. In the early 1900s, and until 1971, the courts ruled for purposes of immigration and school desegregation that Mexicans were white. This ruling was irrespective of skin color. The courts have similarly flip-flopped about the definition of whiteness to include immigrants from other countries who did not have white or tan skin. Besides, Jason Kidd has tan skin, does that make him white? I sat out in the sun for a while and came back with tan skin, does that make ME white? No, the only thing that "white" signifies is an ideology of supremacy and oppression.
The Germans, Russian, Jews, Australians, Canadians, French, Irish, and the Italian were not oppressors (of blacks) UNTIL THEY BECAME WHITE--in other words, decided that they were "white" (and not black) and chose to uphold and endorse white supremacy. In most of those cases they had previously been the oppressed. James Baldwin argued that the Jews, for instance, came to America BECAUSE they were oppressed and opted to become white, after which they became oppressors alongside all other whites. The Catholic Irish were oppressed in Ireland and came to American and became white as well, endorsing slavery and stepping on the necks of blacks for their own success. Now you see why I have no problem referring to whites as oppressive and why I have no problem with "the generalization of the white race."
You seem to have discovered the truth of what James Baldwin meant when he wrote, "As long as you think you're white, there's no hope for you."
If the majority of so-called white rap fans DIDN'T hold white supremacist beliefs then they would have a much more healthy relationship with the music and with blacks in general. Instead they continue to cherish white supremacy and the result is an unhealthy and perverse relationship with the music characterized by exploitation, idolatry, impotentce, fear and psychological confusion. This demonstrates itself in the whole "wigger" phenomenon. If white rap fans did not cherish white supremacy they would not feel the need to caricature and commodify a culture while ignoring the roots of its creation. If white rap fans didn't hold white supremacist beliefs and could admit to themselves that black people alone created rap then you would not have people on the Siccness arguing that Africa was "uncivilized" while Europeans were "traveling" around the globe "discovering" things...or claiming that Jews should get credit for the "organized crime" theme in rap music....If the majority of them did not hold white supremacist beliefs then more people would be struggling alongside blacks instead of worrying about the "generalization" of the oppressor...
I could keep going...
If you want some "documented evidence" of white rap fans and internalized white supremacy, you can check out Wimsatt's Bomb The Suburbs. It should be available at your local university library. Check out the article "We Use Words Like Mackadocious," it's like the second article. It's about "white rap fans," and it's food for thought on the subject.
It's not a loaded term. I meant people on here who seem well informed, committed to struggling for black causes and who have spoken their minds on this board. As far as agreeing and sharing the same views as me, I don't see perfectly eye-to-eye with anyone on this board and that's not my criterion for being knowledgeable.
I disagree with you--I don't see them as different. By "trying to stop the victim from placing...blame on others" you are indirectly making the victim (in other words, the oppressed) responsible for his own lot in life...and absolving the oppressors from responsibility. That is akin to blaming the victim. Like the distinction I made earlier, I believe it is far more important to concentrate on fighting white supremacy instead of concentrating on stopping blacks from "blaming others."
It seems like your effort is invested in changing where blacks place the blame for their oppression.......instead, why don't you invest your effort in fighting the oppressor?
It should'nt matter when they formed.They never dropped anything that mattered till 1985?She' On It was wack,nobody even considered that a rap song.Slow n Low was tight,but this all comes about 7 years after Grandmaster Cas,DJ Kool Herc,Melle Mel were doin there thing.In 1982 you had radio singles,that's why you wont be able to trace any sales to the early 80's.We had singles on vinyl,but there were'nt many full length albums even available,but dub-tapes were in everybodies walkmen by 1982.UTFO,Kurtis Blow,Bambatta,Twilight 22..all them groups were doin there thing waaay before the Beastie's.I'm not hatin on the Beastie Boys.I think their the only white rappers I ever liked because they actually had hip-hop credibility,and major love from rappers when it was'nt all about business,and politics.
QUOTE]Originally posted by SOLO
No, the only thing that "white" signifies is an ideology of supremacy and oppression.
The Germans, Russian, Jews, Australians, Canadians, French, Irish, and the Italian were not oppressors (of blacks) UNTIL THEY BECAME WHITE--in other words, decided that they were "white" (and not black) and chose to uphold and endorse white supremacy. In most of those cases they had previously been the oppressed. James Baldwin argued that the Jews, for instance, came to America BECAUSE they were oppressed and opted to become white, after which they became oppressors alongside all other whites. The Catholic Irish were oppressed in Ireland and came to American and became white as well, endorsing slavery and stepping on the necks of blacks for their own success. Now you see why I have no problem referring to whites as oppressive and why I have no problem with "the generalization of the white race."[/quote]
So how exactly did Jews become oppressors in the US? They achieved economic success, and very rarely was it an intentional or direct oppression of minorities. Jews faced a serious amount of racism in the US since arrival. There were people in the US (Universal Studios being the largest) who supported Hitler, and Jewish immigrants were treated like shit upon arrival. The most recent slew of hate crimes in the late 90's has largely been directed toward Jews.
One could also say, "As long as you adopt an overly self-defeating nonsensical retribution philosophy in order to pander to an intellectual more, you are doomed", but no one would question James Baldwin like this. If White is not a race, Black is not a race. If White is a mentality, and Black is a mentality, and both produce an overall negative effect on the world, (the white mentality being elitism and oppression of outsiders, and the black mentality being a self-oriented wealth and power acqusition motivation with little or no regard to societal consequences: i.e. The Corporate White Pig and the Ghetto Criminal Black Man) then basically you're just saying Black people simply by virtue of being Black are better than White people. Keep putting forward this theory all you want, but the fact is not all white people are gonna smile and say "oh yes sir I am a bitch, please sir may I have another, you are so right". In your search for intellectuality in racial relations, you adopt a self-deprecating and alienating stance that produces little or no positive effect other than saying "white people are poopoo!" Sorry solo, but you're not going anywhere with this.
You're on to something here, but you're fundamentally flawed. Wiggers did not create the image of the big bad gangster black man". This is put forth primarily by the media, and supported by the black community.
The cycle of black media representation is not a direct cause and effect, (i.e white racism creates seterotypical ghetto connotations). It is a circular pattern.
One one hand you have disadvantaged or lower-class white kids, or even white kids who are not exposed to harsh realities but feel they identify with a struggle or 'the' struggle. Their exposure to black society as a whole is minimal. Conceptions formed in this group are largely based on the cartoonish, "cash money gangster" caricature you refer to. Rather than live in a ghetto OR largely black community environment from which most rap/hip-hop is created, they pick up on MTV,BET, and platinum-selling rap artists.
And while many successful rap artists embed intellectual or redeeming social themes in their music such as Nas, Tupac, etc. the majority put forth what the media, white fans, black fans, and fans of all races eat up: the "black gangster with 10 bitches, 3 escalades, and 20 guns".
And while Nas and Tupac embed socially relevant themes in many of their songs, maybe even all of their songs (2pac's "Changes" Nas "I know I can" song as examples) it's easier for audiences both black and white to pick up the 'thug' ideology than it is to understand a message of social change.
And on another hand, you have a black community that does not reject the thug stereotypes or negative connotations. For all the black men and women out there with social change, upward economic mobility not based on Sports or Entertainment, and societal welfare on their minds, there ARE black men who go after as many sexual partners as possible, sell drugs, and bust guns in an attempt to come up in the world.
If the ghetto mentality was one hundred percent, fifty percent, even thirty percent positive as a whole, then rap would not be in the form it is today. Yes, the black man that racist white america fears would still be featured prominently in music, but artists with real social change and positive messages would be out in a larger force, and their music would be just as appreciated, because even though wiggers and the uneducated have a predetermined image of Black america, they are still not black. Black people will always hold the poker hand as far as rap credibility. If a white artist came out with song sabout cleaning up the ghetto and uplifting the black race, he would be seen as unauthentic and unimportant, he/she would not be seen as a factor. Basically, black people still hold the authority in the end about what is and is not "cool" in rap music, and a loud enough voice has not raised up and said "enough negativity and enough songs about illicit activities" for rap as a whole to make a significant turn-around.
Another contributing factor is the fact that Black folks oftentimes self-segregate. If given the choice of talking to/hanging out with a white person or a black person, they will choose a black person a large majority of the time. Ask the Black folks on this board how often they themselves and their friends choose to spend time or talk with white people (besides tryin to fuck white bitches) and if they answer honestly, they'll be in line with what I'm saying. The Real World on MTV is a poor example, however, you can generally make a direct connection between how "whitewashed" a black person is and how much time they will spend with white people on the show. My girl is mixed, and she gets shit for proper english and not wearing FUBU on a daily basis. Black men often give her and myself hostile looks simply for being together. I used to respond or challenge back to this, but after awhile I came to a point where I decided I could either get in fights with black men everywhere I went who had a certain idea about who my girl could be with, and reinforce a negative mentality, or I could just ignore it and go on.
The majority of wiggers do not have a "pro-white" mentality. It is exactly the opposite. They wish they could be black, or see the black race as more authentic to the hip-hop community. One assumption of yours that is wrong is that the people arguing with you here on teh Siccness with certain views about the white race are all wiggers, which in fact they are not. Growing up in diverse circumstances and being racially mixed, I have been exposed to many different mentalities. I have chopped it up with total suburban cracka ass wiggas, and I have also spent time with black, mexican, asian, and white people from the broke down dirty ass hood. The white views you see on the siccness do not represent wiggers or white people supposedly conscious of hip-hop, even if it is all the white exposure you have received.
No, the only thing that "white" signifies is an ideology of supremacy and oppression.
The Germans, Russian, Jews, Australians, Canadians, French, Irish, and the Italian were not oppressors (of blacks) UNTIL THEY BECAME WHITE--in other words, decided that they were "white" (and not black) and chose to uphold and endorse white supremacy. In most of those cases they had previously been the oppressed. James Baldwin argued that the Jews, for instance, came to America BECAUSE they were oppressed and opted to become white, after which they became oppressors alongside all other whites. The Catholic Irish were oppressed in Ireland and came to American and became white as well, endorsing slavery and stepping on the necks of blacks for their own success. Now you see why I have no problem referring to whites as oppressive and why I have no problem with "the generalization of the white race."[/quote]
So how exactly did Jews become oppressors in the US? They achieved economic success, and very rarely was it an intentional or direct oppression of minorities. Jews faced a serious amount of racism in the US since arrival. There were people in the US (Universal Studios being the largest) who supported Hitler, and Jewish immigrants were treated like shit upon arrival. The most recent slew of hate crimes in the late 90's has largely been directed toward Jews.
One could also say, "As long as you adopt an overly self-defeating nonsensical retribution philosophy in order to pander to an intellectual more, you are doomed", but no one would question James Baldwin like this. If White is not a race, Black is not a race. If White is a mentality, and Black is a mentality, and both produce an overall negative effect on the world, (the white mentality being elitism and oppression of outsiders, and the black mentality being a self-oriented wealth and power acqusition motivation with little or no regard to societal consequences: i.e. The Corporate White Pig and the Ghetto Criminal Black Man) then basically you're just saying Black people simply by virtue of being Black are better than White people. Keep putting forward this theory all you want, but the fact is not all white people are gonna smile and say "oh yes sir I am a bitch, please sir may I have another, you are so right". In your search for intellectuality in racial relations, you adopt a self-deprecating and alienating stance that produces little or no positive effect other than saying "white people are poopoo!" Sorry solo, but you're not going anywhere with this.
You're on to something here, but you're fundamentally flawed. Wiggers did not create the image of the big bad gangster black man". This is put forth primarily by the media, and supported by the black community.
The cycle of black media representation is not a direct cause and effect, (i.e white racism creates seterotypical ghetto connotations). It is a circular pattern.
One one hand you have disadvantaged or lower-class white kids, or even white kids who are not exposed to harsh realities but feel they identify with a struggle or 'the' struggle. Their exposure to black society as a whole is minimal. Conceptions formed in this group are largely based on the cartoonish, "cash money gangster" caricature you refer to. Rather than live in a ghetto OR largely black community environment from which most rap/hip-hop is created, they pick up on MTV,BET, and platinum-selling rap artists.
And while many successful rap artists embed intellectual or redeeming social themes in their music such as Nas, Tupac, etc. the majority put forth what the media, white fans, black fans, and fans of all races eat up: the "black gangster with 10 bitches, 3 escalades, and 20 guns".
And while Nas and Tupac embed socially relevant themes in many of their songs, maybe even all of their songs (2pac's "Changes" Nas "I know I can" song as examples) it's easier for audiences both black and white to pick up the 'thug' ideology than it is to understand a message of social change.
And on another hand, you have a black community that does not reject the thug stereotypes or negative connotations. For all the black men and women out there with social change, upward economic mobility not based on Sports or Entertainment, and societal welfare on their minds, there ARE black men who go after as many sexual partners as possible, sell drugs, and bust guns in an attempt to come up in the world.
If the ghetto mentality was one hundred percent, fifty percent, even thirty percent positive as a whole, then rap would not be in the form it is today. Yes, the black man that racist white america fears would still be featured prominently in music, but artists with real social change and positive messages would be out in a larger force, and their music would be just as appreciated, because even though wiggers and the uneducated have a predetermined image of Black america, they are still not black. Black people will always hold the poker hand as far as rap credibility. If a white artist came out with song sabout cleaning up the ghetto and uplifting the black race, he would be seen as unauthentic and unimportant, he/she would not be seen as a factor. Basically, black people still hold the authority in the end about what is and is not "cool" in rap music, and a loud enough voice has not raised up and said "enough negativity and enough songs about illicit activities" for rap as a whole to make a significant turn-around.
Another contributing factor is the fact that Black folks oftentimes self-segregate. If given the choice of talking to/hanging out with a white person or a black person, they will choose a black person a large majority of the time. Ask the Black folks on this board how often they themselves and their friends choose to spend time or talk with white people (besides tryin to fuck white bitches) and if they answer honestly, they'll be in line with what I'm saying. The Real World on MTV is a poor example, however, you can generally make a direct connection between how "whitewashed" a black person is and how much time they will spend with white people on the show. My girl is mixed, and she gets shit for proper english and not wearing FUBU on a daily basis. Black men often give her and myself hostile looks simply for being together. I used to respond or challenge back to this, but after awhile I came to a point where I decided I could either get in fights with black men everywhere I went who had a certain idea about who my girl could be with, and reinforce a negative mentality, or I could just ignore it and go on.
The majority of wiggers do not have a "pro-white" mentality. It is exactly the opposite. They wish they could be black, or see the black race as more authentic to the hip-hop community. One assumption of yours that is wrong is that the people arguing with you here on teh Siccness with certain views about the white race are all wiggers, which in fact they are not. Growing up in diverse circumstances and being racially mixed, I have been exposed to many different mentalities. I have chopped it up with total suburban cracka ass wiggas, and I have also spent time with black, mexican, asian, and white people from the broke down dirty ass hood. The white views you see on the siccness do not represent wiggers or white people supposedly conscious of hip-hop, even if it is all the white exposure you have received.