DEgREES OF WIggA-ISM

  • Wanna Join? New users you can now register lightning fast using your Facebook or Twitter accounts.
Apr 25, 2002
6,229
2,453
113
#81
Black Like Me
White teens assume the fashion and music of hip-hop artists. Are these 'wiggers' stealing African-American culture or bridging the racial gap?
Stories by Steve Echeverria Jr.
Record Staff Writer
Published Sunday, August 10, 2003

eet Bear Creek High School freshmen Josh Owenby and Trever Beidinger. They're probably the biggest pair of wiggers this side of River City. And the label doesn't bother them a bit.

Beidinger, 13, is sporting a pair of black Phat Farm sneakers, baggy blue denim Fubu pants and an Ecko baseball jersey. He tops his getup with an old-school Philadelphia Phillies baseball cap.

Owenby, 14, is swimming in a dark-and-light blue South Pole sweatsuit with matching Fubu tennis shoes. He said he got into hip-hop two years ago.

"I saw all these rappers on BET and MTV, and they seem to be getting all the girls," said Owenby, who likes to download music from rappers DMX and 50 Cent.

"Sometimes at school, people will say, 'Those are black people's clothes. Why are you trying to be black?' " he said, adding he gets the most criticism from his white friends. " 'You're white, you wigger.' "

Welcome to the world of wiggers, a hybrid of the word "white" and the N-word that -- depending on who you ask -- either reflects a white respect of black culture or is a demeaning label for poseurs stealing black fashion.

Whatever the case, Beidinger and Owenby are continuing a historic white fascination with black music and fashion that goes back to when the Cotton Club exposed uppercrust whites to Harlem jazz.

Truth is, wiggers are everywhere. White kids acting and dressing "black" are at the malls, music stores and nightclubs. But who are they? Where did they come from? And why do they do it?

Some call them race traitors, poseurs and just plain confused. Others are amused and even flattered.

The consensus among blacks and whites alike is that wiggers, or wiggaz, are white, affluent teens and twentysomethings who adopt the language, mannerisms and dress of young, urban blacks.

Whites have always loved black music and culture, including jazz, blues and rock 'n' roll. But the question of today's youth's fascination with black culture is whether it's a culture clash or an exchange.

There are Web sites addressing the issues, including wiggaz.com, which is dedicated to studying these so-called hip Anglos. The home page displays a bald white man -- dressed in a New York Yankee baseball jersey and visor -- hunched over turntables and flashing a peace sign.

"There are certain mysteries in life that need to be investigated and explained," said Mark Vukadinovich, the site's 27-year-old creator. "Wiggers defy explanation."

A full-time law student from Orange County, Vukadinovich created the Web site in June after his friends joked about their presence at a local mall. The site features several pages with photos of hard-looking white teens flashing hand signs and wearing flipped hats. The site also features a glossary of wiggerisms and a guest book. It takes a somewhat humorous, if not flip, approach to the lifestyle. In some instances, visitors can't tell whether Vukadinovich is making fun of wiggers or giving them props.

And Vukadinovich said some visitors carry their own prejudices to the site. The majority of guest-book writers are European rap fans, racists and white hip-hoppers.

Still, wiggaz.com has been featured in Maxim magazine. And a Danish hip-hop radio station has interviewed its creator.

"More than anything, I want people to see the daily strife that wiggers go through," Vukadinovich said, his tongue apparently planted firmly in his cheek. "We need to call attention to that lifestyle and stop ignoring it." ::: Advertisement :::


Perhaps the best way to understand wiggers is to visit their natural habitat. Walking into Tower Records in north Stockton one weekday afternoon, Ashlee Lockman and Laurel Gordon wore the female version of the wigger uniform: low-cut jeans and pastel-colored tops that reveal their belly buttons. They giggled while talking about the latest Chingy album and the Bad Boys II soundtrack.

"You know what a wigger is?"

They laugh.

"No one's ever said it to me," said Lockman, 14, revealing a smile full of braces. "Sometimes they use it joking around. But they use it to (diss) people, too."

The two future Lincoln High School freshmen said they had been into hip-hop since grammar school. The pair watch MTV and BET religiously for the "fashion and beats."

"My mom doesn't say much about (liking hip-hop culture)," Lockman said. "I kind of took after my brother."

They giggle, turn and walk away.

For Trever Beidinger, it's not an issue of race. It's just what's "in" right now.

"I don't care what people think," Beidinger said. "Clothes should be for everybody. People should dress however they want to. Some people say I dress nice for a white boy."

T.J. Jones and James Spivey, who are both black, were at the Sherwood Mall recently and take a different point of view. Wiggaz make them angry.

"I clown 'em," said Jones, 19, who's originally from Oakland. "(Whites) are biting our style because they ain't got no style. They trying to look as good as us, but they can't."

Mamie Darlington, who teaches black studies at University of the Pacific, was unfamiliar with the term "wiggers" but said she is familiar with "white kids who act black."

"I've seen these kids together, and it's kind of amusing to me," Darlington said. "I don't see it as negative. It's good to reinforce that black and white kids are more alike than different."

David "Davey D" Cook, a Bay Area hip-hop journalist and activist, says the term is offensive. First, he said, there's the suggestion of the use of the N-word. Second, "you're attributing certain behavior rooted in stereotypes and negativity.

"You get a white kid who has adopted a certain slang and dress, and suddenly to people he's a wigger." The flip side is that when a black person acts intelligent, they are accused of acting white, he said.

Those mannerisms come to mean some type of value on the socioeconomic level, Cook said. People want to be part of it.

"The root of it is people want to be powerful, so they imitate people who are powerful," Cook said. "Hip-hop has allowed a cultural exchange, for better or worse."

But the older generation, esconsed in decades of separatism, wants to continue to divide people among race and class. "They're comfortable stifling the potential we can all reach," Cook said.

Darlington observes that adopting a different cultural lifestyle is "a natural tendency for teens."

"It's an identity issue," she said. "They're at a development stage. They want to be accepted by their peers. We know identity is important. Why not embrace things that have positive aspects instead of dividing kids between race and class?"

The fashion, language and behavior is often projected as fun and romantic, but people who actually live the ups and downs of an urban black lifestyle don't see it that way, Cook said.

White youths need to make a deeper connection with black culture beyond the music and fashion, he said. People dress that way because they have no choice.

"Walking around with baggy pants is not a fashion statement for some people. It may be a necessity of things," he said.

The message may be working.

"White people don't care what they say about black people," said Owenby, the teen who has adopted black fashion as his own. "It's like they don't care what our (white) ancestors did to (blacks)."

Cook acknowledges there is something different about today's white youth.

"This generation, generally, is comfortable being influenced by people outside their ethnic background," Cook said. "But just because you have a Fubu outfit doesn't mean you understand the culture."

Vukadinovich said he's surprised more whites than blacks are offended by his Web site. "Especially in America, we don't have a cultural identity, so it's natural to take somebody else's," he said.

Blacks give his site mixed reviews.

"Some appreciate the humor, others don't. You see this kid who never shared an experience you have. And some people are offended, some think it's funny," he said. "Obviously, a white person can never appreciate what it's like to be black. So when they see someone trying to do it, it seems comical in a way. But they're opening up a debate across culture, and that's good."

Darlington said it's common sense.

"People are more alike than different. We need to celebrate the similarities," she said. "The whole issue of separating people is the real issue."
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#82
"I saw all these rappers on BET and MTV, and they seem to be getting all the girls," said Owenby
GREAT MARKETING. HE ADMITS THAT TELEVISION (MEDIA) INFLUENCED HIS CHOICES.

"U CAN BE JUS LIKE US. YOU BE HABBIN ALL DA BREEZIES FO SHEEZY IF YOU RIDE 99 INCH RIMS, SAG,SMOKE A CHOP AND COP WEAR AIR FORCE ONES MO FUKA!

$$$$$=POWER...THE GOOD LIFE....

"Sometimes at school, people will say, 'Those are black people's clothes. Why are you trying to be black?' " he said, adding he gets the most criticism from his white friends. " 'You're white, you wigger.' "
PEEP WHAT I SAID FROM MY LAST POST:
WELL TOO BE HONEST WITH YOU MANY PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT YOU ARE "ACTING LIKE A NIGGER". "ONLY A NIGGER WEARS THOSE KIND OF CLOTHES AND ONLY A NIGGER HAS BLOOD SHOT EYES BECAUSE OF THOSE DRUGS". SOME OF IT DOES COME FROM THE MEDIA. SOME OF IT COMES FROM RACISM DUE TO LACK OF EXPOSURE AND CULTURE.
INTERESTING...

Welcome to the world of wiggers, a hybrid of the word "white" and the N-word that -- depending on who you ask -- either reflects a white respect of black culture or is a demeaning label for poseurs stealing black fashion.
SEE THE ABOVE.


Whatever the case, Beidinger and Owenby are continuing a historic white fascination with black music and fashion that goes back to when the Cotton Club exposed uppercrust whites to Harlem jazz.
SOAK ON THAT.


The consensus among blacks and whites alike is that wiggers, or wiggaz, are white, affluent teens and twentysomethings who adopt the language, mannerisms and dress of young, urban blacks.
THIS DEMOGRAPHIC=$$$$$$$$$$.

Whites have always loved black music and culture, including jazz, blues and rock 'n' roll. But the question of today's youth's fascination with black culture is whether it's a culture clash or an exchange.
WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS HOW BLACK PEOPLE CAN BE HARSH TOWARDS OTHER BLACKS WHO LISTEN AND PERFORM ROCK & ROLL.

A full-time law student from Orange County, Vukadinovich created the Web site in June after his friends joked about their presence at a local mall. The site features several pages with photos of hard-looking white teens flashing hand signs and wearing flipped hats. The site also features a glossary of wiggerisms and a guest book. It takes a somewhat humorous, if not flip, approach to the lifestyle. In some instances, visitors can't tell whether Vukadinovich is making fun of wiggers or giving them props.
WHITE FACE OR BLACK FACE?

The two future Lincoln High School freshmen said they had been into hip-hop since grammar school. The pair watch MTV and BET religiously for the "fashion and beats."
ONCE AGAIN TELEVISION PLAYING A BIG ROLE.

For Trever Beidinger, it's not an issue of race. It's just what's "in" right now.
THE FAD.

"I don't care what people think," Beidinger said. "Clothes should be for everybody. People should dress however they want to. Some people say I dress nice for a white boy."
THATS RIGHT BUT FUBU ISNT "BLACK" CLOTHING. FUBU HAD HELP (RECEIVED MONEY AND AID) FROM CHINESE MEN.

WILL A CHRISTIAN DRESS LIKE A MUSLIM?

David "Davey D" Cook, a Bay Area hip-hop journalist and activist, says the term is offensive. First, he said, there's the suggestion of the use of the N-word. Second, "you're attributing certain behavior rooted in stereotypes and negativity.
EXACTLY.

"You get a white kid who has adopted a certain slang and dress, and suddenly to people he's a wigger." The flip side is that when a black person acts intelligent, they are accused of acting white, he said.
SOAK ON THAT.

"The root of it is people want to be powerful, so they imitate people who are powerful," Cook said. "Hip-hop has allowed a cultural exchange, for better or worse."
...
The fashion, language and behavior is often projected as fun and romantic, but people who actually live the ups and downs of an urban black lifestyle don't see it that way, Cook said.

White youths need to make a deeper connection with black culture beyond the music and fashion, he said. People dress that way because they have no choice.

"Walking around with baggy pants is not a fashion statement for some people. It may be a necessity of things," he said.
REAL CHOP.
"White people don't care what they say about black people," said Owenby, the teen who has adopted black fashion as his own. "It's like they don't care what our (white) ancestors did to (blacks)."
I TAKE IT THAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT CERTAIN TYPES OF WHITE PEOPLE. I ALSO AGREE WITH HIM.

"This generation, generally, is comfortable being influenced by people outside their ethnic background," Cook said. "But just because you have a Fubu outfit doesn't mean you understand the culture."
:dead:
"People are more alike than different. We need to celebrate the similarities," she said. "The whole issue of separating people is the real issue."
CANT GET OVER THE SEPRATION IF ONE GROUP SAYS TO "GET OVER IT".

CANT GET OVER THE SEPERATION IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO TEACH AND LEARN WHAT IT *MEANS* TO BE BLACK. IN ORDER TO DO THIS YOU *MUST* TOUCHDOWN ON SLAVERY, THE EXPLOITATION OF AFRICA AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR CERTAIN ACTIONS......AND IM NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE EITHER....

GOOD LUCK....


:h:
 

EDJ

Sicc OG
May 3, 2002
11,608
234
63
www.myspace.com
#83
^NICE WAY TO BREAK IT ON DOWN.

BUT BAK TO NITRO,

YOU STRESSED, "Who the fuck told you that you can't speak about your views?"

YOU PERCEIVIN' MY VIEWS AS RACIST WHEN THAT'S NOT THE CASE. I'M REACTIN' TO SHIT IN LIFE. SO BY YOU SAYIN' THAT, YOU FIgURE THAT I'M A RACIST THAT SHOULDN'T SPEAK ON WHAT I SPEAK.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "It sucks that your ancestors went through slavery, it sucks that maybe you yourself expierenced prejudice in your life, IT STILL DOES NOT GIVE YOU A REASON TO BE RACIST TOWARDS ANYONE."

IF YOU THINK I'M A RACIST. BUT I CAN REACT TO CIRCUMSTANCES IN MY LIFE AND PEOPLE TOO.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I don't think they say the same thing... quote someone in a past thread if it's true... I guess it could be possible"

AIN'T NO COULD BE. IT IS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOCATE YOUR POSTS AND SEE WHAT YOU STRESSED.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "? Ive never heard or even thought of the "opressed being the opressed" until the last post I made, so I don't see how I always do it."

CORRECTION, IT'S "THE OPPRESSORS BEIN' MADE TO BE THE OPPRESSED" AND/OR "THE OPPRESSED BEIN' MADE TO BE THE OPPRESSORS". IN OTHA WORDS YOU DONE ARgUED WITH DIFFERENT BROTHAS ON THIS BOARD TRYIN' TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE BROTHAS ARE THE BAD PEOPLE WHEN IN FACT WE THE ONES THAT BEEN OPPRESSED SINCE DAY ONE AND IT'S STILL HAPPENIN' ONE WAY OR ANOTHA. SO THAT'S HOW YOU ALWAYS DO IT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Another LIE from the racist EDJ."

LOL. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "WTF? I don't know what the hell it is you just tried to say, but that doesn't mean SHIT."

IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I JUST STRESSED, THEN HOW IN THE FUK YOU KNOW IT DON'T MEAN SHIT? YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND IT EAT IT TOO. EITHA WHAT I STRESSED WENT ABOVE YOUR HEAD, OR YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT I STRESSED BUT IT DIDN'T MEAN SHIT TO YOU. SO WHICH ONE IS IT? AND FOR THE RECORD THAT COMMENT WAS CRISP AND CLEAN AND EASILY DECIPHERABLE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You still have no right to be racist to anyone in this world because of something that happened over 100 years ago, plain and simple, case closed."

KEEP THINKIN' I'M RACIST. LET YOUR LABELIN' BE YOUR DOWNFALL INSTEAD OF PEEPIN' WHAT I'M STRESSIN'. FUK A HUNDRED YEARS AgO. I LIVE IN THE "NOW". AND NOWADAYS SHIT AIN'T ALL gRAVY. CASE NEVA BEEN CLOSED.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You didn't tell me to thank my ancestors for the situation being like that?"

SITUATION BEIN' LIKE WHAT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You don't speak for every white person in this world, you are in no position to say that it doesn't affect a white person "WHATSOEVA"."

OTHA THAN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T FEEL SOCIALLY ACCEPTED IN A PREDOMINANT NUBIAN SETTIN', CULTURE, AND WORLD. "BOO HOO, THOSE BLAK gUYS WON'T LET ME BE DOWN". THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I CAN THINK OF.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Your not even in a position to speak for African Americans, your just a racist "black" man."

LOL. IS THAT SO? I CAN SPEAK FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AND FOR THOSE WHO AgREE, CAN RIDE WITH A NIggA. IF NOT, THEN IT AIN'T NO SWEAT. EVEN AMONg NUBIANS, WE DISAgREE, MAYNE. WE DIVERSE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Black folks are hardley struggling more then ill ever know. I will tell you that white folks are struggling more then YOU will ever know, but I bet you don't give a rats shit about that do you?"

HOW YOU FIgURE BROTHAS AIN'T STRUggLIN'? OH YEAH, I FORgOT, YOU AN OUTSIDER. BUT IF WHITE PEOPLE IS STRUggLIN', THEN WHITE PEOPLE IS STRUggLIN'. THEY gOT THE UPPERHAND, I'M DEALIN' WITH MY SHIT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY gOIN' THRU.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Now your blaming the bad influence rap music has all on white people?!?? GOT DAMN YOUR A RACIST MOTHA FUCKA!"

NO I'M NOT. ALL I WAS STRESSIN' WAS THAT THE SHIT DIDN'T BECOME A PROBLEM TIL SHIT HIT PRE-DOMINANT ANgLO COMMUNITIES. BEFORE THEN, MOST WHITE PEOPLE AND THE WORLD WASN'T CONCERNED.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I already told you, that's how I respond in ALL my posts on these forums. What was it about that, that you didn't get the first time?"

WHAT I DON'T gET IS THE FLIP-FLOPPIN'. BUT YOU SEEM TO SPEAK AgAINST BROTHAS AND THE CULTURE. YOU DON'T HAVE NO RIgHT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Well im telling you they're all wrong, so clearly you would have to be a prejudice person to be so off point with your judgments."

WHAT JUDgEMENT? I STRESS SAMETHIN' THAT WASN'T JUST DIRECTED AT YOU. YOU THE ONE THAT BIT INTO WHAT I STRESSED AND FELT SAMETHIN'. OR ELSE YOU WOULDN'T BE DEBATIN' WITH ME.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Im not convinced you don't follow rap music as a trend either, but I don't judge you for it."

MUTHA-FUKA, DON'T YOU EVA INSULT ME LIKE THAT. I BREATHE AND LIVE FOR THIS RAP SHIT. THIS MUSIC THE ONLY THANg KEEPIN' ME FROM LOSIN' IT ALL. I WAS WRITIN' RHYMES SINCE 84', BEFORE N-E OF YOUR IDOLS THOUgHT ABOUT MAKIN' THIS RAP SHIT. WHEN MOST WHITE PEOPLE HATED RAP. DON'T TELL ME THIS SHIT IS A TREND. I DONE SEEN HOW THIS gAME DONE FLIPPED TO WHERE IT IS TODAY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I told you I still like and listen to rap music, what more do you want from me?"

I WANT YOU TO BE TRUE TO YOURSELF. IF YOU LISTEN TO RAP, DON'T DO IT CAUSE IT'S A TREND. DO IT CAUSE YOU LOVE THE RHYTHM AND RELATE TO THE CULTURE ALL THE WAY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Do I have to cut an album for you to understand this shit?"

DO IT. YOU ACT LIKE RAP DONE LOST IT'S LUSTER. SHOW US HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Maybe its selective reading, maybe you have a short-term memory but I said on more then one occasion that I still listen to the music."

IT'S NONE OF THAT. IT'S YOUR COMMENTS AND HOW YOU KEEP DEgRADIN' THE CULTURE AND MUSIC YOU CLAIM YOU SO CALL LOVE AND STILL LISTEN TO.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Im not perceived as an oputsider lookin' in, only YOU have said anything remotely close to that, stop trying to LIE telling me others feel the same when you havent the slightest clue."

HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW OTHAS VIEW YOU? I DONE CHOPPED IT UP WITH DIFFERENT FOLKS THAT SPIT THE SAME SHIT I SPIT AND TELL ME TO JUST IgNORE YOUR DUMBASS. BUT LIKE A gOOD SAMARITAN I KEEP ON CHOPPIN' IT UP WITH YOUR ASS. MAYBE OTHAS DON'T HAVE THE AUDACITY(SPELLIN?) I DO, BUT THAT DON'T MEAN OTHAS DON'T THINK YOU SPEAK OUT YOUR ASS ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T KNOW.
 

EDJ

Sicc OG
May 3, 2002
11,608
234
63
www.myspace.com
#84
NITRO,

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I get what you guys are talking about, I understand it PERFECTLY, but does that mean I have to agree with it?"

YOU gUYS?
51ST OF ALL,
WHO IS "YOU gUYS"? YEAH, THAT CAN BE TOOKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO ADDRESS PEOPLE. BUT YOU AIN'T gOT TO AgREE WITH SHIT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU LOgICALLY PERCEIVE. WHICH BRINgS US TO THE FACT WHY YOU EVEN INVOLVED IN PRE-DOMINANT NUBIAN DISCUSSIONS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "When I look at the way you reply to my comments, I can tell that you are struggling dearly for words, so I can understand why you would say that."

SAY WHAT? AND IF YOU FEEL AND ASSUME I'M STRUggLIN' THEN THAT'S YOUR MISPERCEPTION AND ASSUMPTION.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "What mix am I trying to get in now?"

THE SAME MIX YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT YOU TALKIN' BOUT WHICH IS PREDOMINANT NUBIAN TOPICS. YOU FEEL YOU KNOW WHAT'S WRONg IN THE BLAK COMMUNITY, BLAME MUTHA-FUKAS AND FEEL YOU HAVE THE SOLUTION(S).

THEN YOU STRESSED, "YOUR the one trying to get into the mix, you have lost every point you attempted to make on this thread and it's getting worse."

WHAT POINT WAS THAT? I HAVEN'T EXPRESSED MY POINT ON THE TOPIC. I ASKED ONE QUESTION AND I LET OTHAS ANSWERED.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Wow, im speaking bad about it because (1) I said I have rap cd's collecting dust and (2) I say that rap could have a negetive influence on your kids, and I don't do anything about it. Thats your proof?"

THAT'S TWO THANgS. SEE A BROTHA(ASSUMIN' HE'S CULTURED AND IS PROUD) CAN gET AWAY WITH YOUR REMARKS CAUSE HE STILL BLAK AND THAT MUSIC AFFECTS THE COMMUNITY HE IS IN. BUT WHEN SOMEBODY WHITE MAKES THOSE REMARKS, YOU gOT TO WONDER WHY HE EVEN STILL LISTENIN' TO RAP AND TALKS ABOUT PREDOMINANT NUBIAN TOPICS. AND NO, THAT'S NOT BEIN' RACIST, CAUSE RAP IS BASED IN THE BLAK AND URBAN CULTURE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Bahahahaha... COME ONE EDJ are you about done with this thread or what!"

NOPE. THE MORE YOU ANSWER, THE MORE I REPLY. THE MORE PEOPLE ANSWER, THE MORE I ASK ON THEIR REASONIN'.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I can show you PROOF that they ARE benefiting from this game. Can you prove otherwise?"

WHO SAID THEY WEREN'T? I SAID THEY WEREN'T BENEFITTIN' FROM THE "EXPLOITATION". EXPLOITATION IS THAT BAD PART OF THE gAME. SUCCESS AND RECOgNITION IS THE gOOD PART OF THE gAME.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Wrong, their buisness is music, and artists is what they got."

WRONg, ARTIST IS WHAT THEY gET.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "What does the OWNER do that make the culture seem a certain way?"

TELL THE RAPPER THAT HE CAN ONLY RAP ABOUT THIS TO UPHOLD HIS IMAgE, AND PUT RED TAPE ON WHO HE CAN WORK WITH.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I would say the artist rapping about killing 50 people, robbing banks and doing drugs is forming the biggest impression of what the culture is like, but I don't expect you to agree, because they are African Americans, they can't be at fault."

YOU THINK THE RAP gAME KEPT TALKIN' ABOUT THAT SHIT JUST BECAUSE? MURDER SELLS. SEX SELLS. MUTHA-FUKAS UP TOP CONCERNED WITH SALES. YOU THINK THAT A NIggA THAT TALKS ABOUT IT A FEW TIMES gONNA KEEP TALKIN' ABOUT IT EVEN IF HE AIN'T LIVIN' THAT LIFE, JUST BECAUSE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, ". When in doubt, weed through the grass and find the nearest white man, HE DID IT!"

LOL. I KNOW SOME NIggAS THAT THINK LIKE THAT, BUT DON'T gET IT TWISTED. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU TRYIN' TO LABEL ALL.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Yeah, I know it must be hard NOT to purchase bentley's, benz', ferrari and a mansion laced with gold facets, but I believe it is possible!"

THAT SARCASTIC REMARK JUST LET'S YOUR IgNORANCE AND WHAT YOU THINK THIS RAP gAME IS ALL ABOUT OR WHAT YOU THINK RAP IS BASED ON.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "These cats are suffering, save them EDJ!"

THEY SUFFERIN' FROM THE TREND OF TRYIN' TO FLOSS AND SPEAK ON MATERIAL THANgS.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Yes it is their fault they lack the sense and knowledge to do it."

SO IF THEY LAK THE SENSE AND KNOWLEDgE, IT'S THEIR FAULT? IT AIN'T NECESARILY THEY FAULT. THEY WASN'T LACED.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Whats the catch EDJ?"

EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT. BUT USUALLY THE CATCH IS SOMETHIN' THAT BENEFITS THE PEOPLE IN POWER WHICH IN TURN IS A SACRIFICE FOR THE ARTIST.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Your barely touching the outside of this shit, I don't think you have the slightest idea of what your talking about."

IS THAT RIgHT? WHAT IS THE SHIT? LACE MY IgNORANT OUSTIDE LOOKIN' IN ASS ON UP.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "These kids grow up dreaming about being a rapstar, now your blaming the white man because there is a dream? Like it's a bad thing.."

THE DREAM AND THE SUCCESS AIN'T THE BAD PART. THE BAD PART IS THE SNAKES IN THE gAME WHO gET OVA ON BROTHAS.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I got more wisdom on everything you claim to know, and thats really sad to say."

LOL. YEAH, IF IT WERE TRUE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "No I don't know where you've been, who you've hollared at or whatever the fuck, but you don't know a damn thing about me or what ive been through either."

I KNOW YOU WORK AT A gROCERY STORE AND JUDgE PEOPLE BY WHAT THEY WEAR HOW THEY gONNA PAY FOR THEY SHIT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Now for your last statement... I also said in the "Who should be responsible..." thread that African Americans would be unwilling to listen to or acknowledge flaws in the African American community presented by a "WHITE" person, I was again put on the spot for not having any documented proof, thankyou for documenting that to EDJ."

NO PROBLEM CUZZ. AND TELL THEM NIggAS YOU SAID THAT SHIT TO, TO SEE IF YOU CAN ADDRESS THEM PROBLEMS YOU TALKIN' BOUT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Your too typical and predictable for your own good."

AM I? THEN WHAT AM I gONNA DO AND SAY NEXT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Prove it then, don't just say it."

I AM. YOU WANNA COP AN EDJ CD CUZZ?
 
Aug 11, 2003
6
0
0
#85
I see what alot of you are getting at with the wigger ideaism. Somebody that grew up in the suburbs (rich neighborhood) and started mimicking the culture of HipHop.

Okay, so what about a white person who lived in an average neighborhood, not ghetto, not suburbs, who was mainly raised around blacks and mexicans? I grew up on HipHop. I've always supported the HipHop since I can remember, ever since I was old enough to realize and take it in as knowledge and not just mock it. I dress in ecko, phat farm, 555 Soul and clothes like that, but I dont walk around and act like i'm a gangsta or hard or like i'm 'down', I just act how I always have.

Would you consider those traits 'wiggerism'?
 

SOLO

Sicc OG
May 23, 2002
431
0
16
#86
Back to the original question:

EDJ said:
IS THERE DIFFERENCES IN HOW WHITEBOYS CULTURALLY ACCEPT PRE-DOMINANT NUBIAN AND URBAN CULTURE & SUBCULTURE OR IS IT ALL THE SAME?
It's not all the same. I'd say there are two camps...those who integrate rap/hiphop/"urban culture" into their repetoires of behavior but continue to cherish white supremacy......and those who, perhaps with assistance from their exposure to the culture, come to realize that they are not white at all...that they never were in the first place...

Unfortunately the majority of so-called whites exploit black art forms for their own benefit while holding onto their white supremacist beliefs. Rap makes them feel cool but they don't internalize the true message that it brings.

Doja Upshot said:
I see what alot of you are getting at with the wigger ideaism. Somebody that grew up in the suburbs (rich neighborhood) and started mimicking the culture of HipHop.

Okay, so what about a white person who lived in an average neighborhood, not ghetto, not suburbs, who was mainly raised around blacks and mexicans? I grew up on HipHop. I've always supported the HipHop since I can remember, ever since I was old enough to realize and take it in as knowledge and not just mock it. I dress in ecko, phat farm, 555 Soul and clothes like that, but I dont walk around and act like i'm a gangsta or hard or like i'm 'down', I just act how I always have.

Would you consider those traits 'wiggerism'?
There's a difference between supporting something and living through it. After all, I can donate some money to Greenpeace, but it doesn't automatically make me an environmentalist just because I "supported" it. Hip hop (incl. rap) is a distinctive mode of expression originating from the oppressed...EDJ's use of the term "wiggerism" refers to the relationship of so-called white rap fans to the music. There's a difference between those who support the music through dollars (while exploiting black cultural expression for their own self benefit) and those who identify with it and live it...and struggle with it and anguish over it.

If you are interacting with hip hop to exploit it for your own benefit, you can always put it back on the shelf and ignore it when it becomes bothersome. However, if it's truly a part of you, then you have no choice but to wrestle with it...the interaction goes both ways.

I'm not talking down on you (Doja) for your comment about having "always supported" hip hop....if anything, it sounds like you're on the right track...these are some more issues for you to consider in terms of your relationship to hip hop.
 
Jan 8, 2003
151
0
0
38
www.pimpicity.com
#88
Solo, don't take this as an attack, just trying to clarify things, but it seems to me like you're saying the "white man" can't be diverse. By saying that "those who, perhaps with assistance from their exposure to the culture, come to realize that they are not white at all...that they never were in the first place..." don't you think you're giving off an impression that the "white" race is inferior, that they can't be (for lack of a better term) real? Umm, I was going somewhere further with this, but I forgot. Fuck. Oh well, here's half a reply for you. :(
 
Mar 18, 2003
5,362
194
0
44
#90
EDJ said:
YOU PERCEIVIN' MY VIEWS AS RACIST WHEN THAT'S NOT THE CASE. I'M REACTIN' TO SHIT IN LIFE. SO BY YOU SAYIN' THAT, YOU FIgURE THAT I'M A RACIST THAT SHOULDN'T SPEAK ON WHAT I SPEAK.
Your expierences in life DO NOT JUSITIFY RACISM. It doesn't matter whether your speaking from speculation, hear-say, expierence, or something you learned from the media, if your actions are those of a racist, then thats what you are. I told you that, if your a racist then you should not speak your mind as you do, that is correct, but if you took that as "you should not speak your views", that sounds to me like full admittance that your a racist.

EDJ said:
IF YOU THINK I'M A RACIST. BUT I CAN REACT TO CIRCUMSTANCES IN MY LIFE AND PEOPLE TOO.
The KKK and the old German NAZI's reacted to circumstances and and people surrounding their life, are you telling me you don't question their actions?

EDJ said:
IN OTHA WORDS YOU DONE ARgUED WITH DIFFERENT BROTHAS ON THIS BOARD TRYIN' TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE BROTHAS ARE THE BAD PEOPLE WHEN IN FACT WE THE ONES THAT BEEN OPPRESSED SINCE DAY ONE AND IT'S STILL HAPPENIN' ONE WAY OR ANOTHA. SO THAT'S HOW YOU ALWAYS DO IT.
I never insinuated anything related to African American's being "bad people". There are African American speakers who speak far more harshly upon the "black" race then I ever have. The only difference is that im a "white" boy, so everything I say is taken in an entirely different manner then it would be had it been spoken by a "black" man; much of what I say is taken as racism instead of insight mainly because im "white". I have much love for "white" and "black" people alike, there are plenty within each race that need to be dealt with regardless.

EDJ said:
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I JUST STRESSED, THEN HOW IN THE FUK YOU KNOW IT DON'T MEAN SHIT? YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND IT EAT IT TOO. EITHA WHAT I STRESSED WENT ABOVE YOUR HEAD, OR YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT I STRESSED BUT IT DIDN'T MEAN SHIT TO YOU. SO WHICH ONE IS IT? AND FOR THE RECORD THAT COMMENT WAS CRISP AND CLEAN AND EASILY DECIPHERABLE.
If I tell you "Happ horip makanich dorenig" you would (1) not know what the fuck I just said and (2) think that it doesn't mean shit as far as what were talking about. So I CAN have my cake, and eat it too. What you typed was not "DECIPHERABLE", it was pure jibberish and ebonics. I have withstood your poor grammar and sentence structure for quite some time now, but sometimes I just can't understand what you said, not because of it's complexity, but because it just doesnt make sense. My grammar is not perfect, but its perfectly legible.

EDJ said:
KEEP THINKIN' I'M RACIST. LET YOUR LABELIN' BE YOUR DOWNFALL INSTEAD OF PEEPIN' WHAT I'M STRESSIN'. FUK A HUNDRED YEARS AgO. I LIVE IN THE "NOW". AND NOWADAYS SHIT AIN'T ALL gRAVY. CASE NEVA BEEN CLOSED.
You are a racist, shit...

You just told me that you wanted rap music for "black" and minority people, but not "white".

You refered to white buisness owners as "devils" because they are on top.

You do not like the fact that "white" and "black" people can come together in such events as basketball and football.

You refered to me as a "white ass" person, when you yourself deemed such a comment to be racist.

You blamed the negetivity in rap music on "white" people.

(thats all from this one single thread)

EDJ said:
THEN YOU STRESSED, "You didn't tell me to thank my ancestors for the situation being like that?"

SITUATION BEIN' LIKE WHAT?
Cat got your tounge? We were just talking about how you can say "white ass" to me, but I can't say "black ass" to you. You told me I should thank my ancestors for it being like that. Then you told me "I DIDN'T SAY I CAN SAY "WHITE ASS" TO DESCRIBE YOU CAUSE OF YOUR ANCESTORS WOES." So which is it...

EDJ said:
HOW YOU FIgURE BROTHAS AIN'T STRUggLIN'? OH YEAH, I FORgOT, YOU AN OUTSIDER. BUT IF WHITE PEOPLE IS STRUggLIN', THEN WHITE PEOPLE IS STRUggLIN'. THEY gOT THE UPPERHAND, I'M DEALIN' WITH MY SHIT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY gOIN' THRU.
How do you figure that I think "black" folks are not struggling? You obviously formulated this lie right where you got the one about me being an "outsider". EDJ do you feel that you have to lie in order to keep up with me? Do you feel like your an outsider EDJ? Im beginning to think so..

EDJ said:
WHAT I DON'T gET IS THE FLIP-FLOPPIN'. BUT YOU SEEM TO SPEAK AgAINST BROTHAS AND THE CULTURE. YOU DON'T HAVE NO RIgHT.
Quick to change the subject, huh? Check this out though. As long as you throw the word "white" around, which includes me, then I will speak out, for or against, any one person, or group of African American's in this country.

EDJ said:
MUTHA-FUKA, DON'T YOU EVA INSULT ME LIKE THAT. I BREATHE AND LIVE FOR THIS RAP SHIT. THIS MUSIC THE ONLY THANg KEEPIN' ME FROM LOSIN' IT ALL. I WAS WRITIN' RHYMES SINCE 84', BEFORE N-E OF YOUR IDOLS THOUgHT ABOUT MAKIN' THIS RAP SHIT. WHEN MOST WHITE PEOPLE HATED RAP. DON'T TELL ME THIS SHIT IS A TREND. I DONE SEEN HOW THIS gAME DONE FLIPPED TO WHERE IT IS TODAY.
I didn't say it was a trend, I said you probably follow it as a trend, to be cool, ain't that right? You feel like you get accepted where you live because you try to rap and act gangsta. How does it feel to be told how you follow something like rap music. Now, know that you did that, and worse to me, without any instigation.
 
Mar 18, 2003
5,362
194
0
44
#91
EDJ said:
I WANT YOU TO BE TRUE TO YOURSELF. IF YOU LISTEN TO RAP, DON'T DO IT CAUSE IT'S A TREND. DO IT CAUSE YOU LOVE THE RHYTHM AND RELATE TO THE CULTURE ALL THE WAY.
No one EVER said I listened to it as a trend. That is something YOU made up and convinced YOURSELF to be true. I told you on more then one occasion that I LIKED the music and it APPEALED to me. Your telling me you want me to be true to myself? I have grown to like different music, so I tend to listen to it a little more then rap.. isn't that being true to myself? If I still listened to rap even though I didn't really like it.. wouldn't that be following a trend?

EDJ said:
IT'S NONE OF THAT. IT'S YOUR COMMENTS AND HOW YOU KEEP DEgRADIN' THE CULTURE AND MUSIC YOU CLAIM YOU SO CALL LOVE AND STILL LISTEN TO.
I never degraded either, that is a LIE.

EDJ said:
HOW DO YOU KNOW HOW OTHAS VIEW YOU? I DONE CHOPPED IT UP WITH DIFFERENT FOLKS THAT SPIT THE SAME SHIT I SPIT AND TELL ME TO JUST IgNORE YOUR DUMBASS. BUT LIKE A gOOD SAMARITAN I KEEP ON CHOPPIN' IT UP WITH YOUR ASS. MAYBE OTHAS DON'T HAVE THE AUDACITY(SPELLIN?) I DO, BUT THAT DON'T MEAN OTHAS DON'T THINK YOU SPEAK OUT YOUR ASS ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T KNOW.
I believe that you are ALL (for the most part) talking out of your ass' as well, so we have different opinions, neither are defenite facts. There are things that you have said in here that strongly differ from what is said by other's on this board who speak out for the African American community. They will NEVER argue you though, for reasons that I myself know, but will not discuss with you. I don't know who is telling you to ignore me, because everyone I confronted on this forum, has done the same as you are, ALL OF THEM. They are telling you to ignore me because they are afraid of the truth, my word does not benefit their beliefs.

EDJ said:
YOU gUYS?
51ST OF ALL,
WHO IS "YOU gUYS"? YEAH, THAT CAN BE TOOKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO ADDRESS PEOPLE. BUT YOU AIN'T gOT TO AgREE WITH SHIT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU LOgICALLY PERCEIVE. WHICH BRINgS US TO THE FACT WHY YOU EVEN INVOLVED IN PRE-DOMINANT NUBIAN DISCUSSIONS?
You asked, so i'll answer. In this case, "you guys" would consist of HERSEY, Tenkamenin, SOLO, EDJ, Lacahontes (and others) who have all participated in discussions with me in this forum. Oh, what, you though I meant "black" people by saying "you guys"? Sorry to let you down EDJ, but your the lone racist in this thread.

EDJ said:
WHO SAID THEY WEREN'T? I SAID THEY WEREN'T BENEFITTIN' FROM THE "EXPLOITATION". EXPLOITATION IS THAT BAD PART OF THE gAME. SUCCESS AND RECOgNITION IS THE gOOD PART OF THE gAME.
SUCCESS, MONEY, and RECOGNITION is the BENEFIT of being "EXPLOITED".

EDJ said:
TELL THE RAPPER THAT HE CAN ONLY RAP ABOUT THIS TO UPHOLD HIS IMAgE, AND PUT RED TAPE ON WHO HE CAN WORK WITH.
Do you have any documented proof that major record label owners force African American's to rap a certain way, because I could have sworn just a minute ago you told me they rap this way because of their life, surroundings, and upbringings.

EDJ said:
YOU THINK THE RAP gAME KEPT TALKIN' ABOUT THAT SHIT JUST BECAUSE? MURDER SELLS. SEX SELLS. MUTHA-FUKAS UP TOP CONCERNED WITH SALES. YOU THINK THAT A NIggA THAT TALKS ABOUT IT A FEW TIMES gONNA KEEP TALKIN' ABOUT IT EVEN IF HE AIN'T LIVIN' THAT LIFE, JUST BECAUSE?
Do you think it's possible that, by the way these artists rap, that they are exploiting their own culture? Has the possibility ever crossed your mind, or can only a white man be a devil.

EDJ said:
LOL. I KNOW SOME NIggAS THAT THINK LIKE THAT, BUT DON'T gET IT TWISTED. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU TRYIN' TO LABEL ALL.
Do you think that labeling an entire race based on the actions of a sub-class therein, would be wrong?

EDJ said:
THAT SARCASTIC REMARK JUST LET'S YOUR IgNORANCE AND WHAT YOU THINK THIS RAP gAME IS ALL ABOUT OR WHAT YOU THINK RAP IS BASED ON.
No that sarcasm is based on the fact that, instead of purchasing hundred thousand dollar cars and million dollar homes, they could be investing this money into their own record label, where they can bring other African Americans into it, and in doing so give them the proper treatment that you think they deserve.

EDJ said:
I KNOW YOU WORK AT A gROCERY STORE AND JUDgE PEOPLE BY WHAT THEY WEAR HOW THEY gONNA PAY FOR THEY SHIT.
No you don't. You listed 2 of many details I brought out. Your telling a LIE in order to make me look bad. I can bring up the post where I listed at LEAST 5 different details as to how I COULD get that impression. You on the other hand, like to make judgment on people because they don't listen to rap. You say you call it how you see it, so do I, hypocrite.

EDJ said:
NO PROBLEM CUZZ. AND TELL THEM NIggAS YOU SAID THAT SHIT TO, TO SEE IF YOU CAN ADDRESS THEM PROBLEMS YOU TALKIN' BOUT.
I did address the problem to them. I think thats what you just asked me...
 
Mar 18, 2003
5,362
194
0
44
#92
SOLO said:
It's not all the same. I'd say there are two camps...those who integrate rap/hiphop/"urban culture" into their repetoires of behavior but continue to cherish white supremacy......and those who, perhaps with assistance from their exposure to the culture, come to realize that they are not white at all...that they never were in the first place...
With these comments you have gone to far. Your going to sit there and tell me that the only kind of "WHITE" people that listen to RAP/HIP-HOP are those that are 1. "so-called white" but come to realize they were never "WHITE" or 2. those that listen to it, but deep down are really in support of WHITE SUPREMACY? YOU ARE THE FUEL TO THE FIRE THAT IS THE MENTALITY OF THE KKK. It's because of people like you that there can never be peace. Has it ever crossed your mind that RAP/HIP-HOP is a form of entertainment that people listen to in order to put their mind's at ease? It is a music that appeals to them, makes them feel good about themselves, enables they to have a more enjoyable time when they are out having fun, the list goes on. Either a person is WITH YOU or AGAINST YOU when listening to rap? CANT A PERSON JUST LISTEN TO THE FUCKING MUSIC BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT? So tell me this, does the same apply to every "BLACK" man that listens to "ROCK" music?

SOLO said:
Unfortunately the majority of so-called whites exploit black art forms for their own benefit while holding onto their white supremacist beliefs. Rap makes them feel cool but they don't internalize the true message that it brings.
1. What the fuck is a "so-called" white? If you have "WHITE" colored skin, then you are a "WHITE" person. The same goes for "BLACK" people.

2. You said that MOST "WHITE" people exploit "BLACK" art for their own benefit, whilst maintaining white supremicist beliefs. What is your source for this? What is your proof and what is it that lead you to believe such a LIE? The MAJORITY of "WHITE" people involved with "BLACK" art form are CONSUMERS. How can a consumer of rap music be exploiting African Americans and benefiting from them by buying a product such as a music CD?

3. What is the "TRUE" message rap/hip-hop brings that "BLACK" people understand, that "WHITE" people don't? How do you know? If you ask me, it is the "BLACK" people that don't truely understand this message you speak of. Prove me wrong.

SOLO said:
Hip hop (incl. rap) is a distinctive mode of expression originating from the oppressed...
NO, RAP/HIP-HOP is a source of PROFIT used by African Americans to make money. No matter how many artists will tell you that there is some hidden MESSAGE in their music, when it comes down to it, the BEAT and LYRICS are formulated to fit the interests of it's consumers. If CONSUMERS wanted to hear nothing but BANJO's and SCREAMING is rap music, then thats what you will hear.

SOLO said:
EDJ's use of the term "wiggerism" refers to the relationship of so-called white rap fans to the music. There's a difference between those who support the music through dollars (while exploiting black cultural expression for their own self benefit) and those who identify with it and live it...and struggle with it and anguish over it.
The only people I have ever seen relate "WIGGERISM" solely to MUSIC, is YOU and EDJ. It is the life-style of a "WHITE" person that determines whether or not he is a "WIGGER", not his prefered genre of music.
 
May 16, 2002
389
0
0
45
#93
I'm tired of all the rascists threads dammit. All these people talkin about they still oppressed that the "wigga" is out to get them and steal they culture. It's just a form of reverse rascism.

Do you still live in the dark ages? Back in the day the "black" people fought to end segregation. Your ancestors and forefathers fought to unify people as equals. Now your spittin in their faces and disrespecting them with all this form of new age segregation and haterism.

When somebody came into a black church back in the day to learn about the culture and destroy the color lines, folks were happy and figured that there fightin was payin off, cuz this man who came in here treated us and knew we were equal in God's eyes. And vice versa when a black man walked into a white church who accepted him as an equal.

Try fightin for what's right and wrong and not over the color of your skin, if you ever want to end racism.

Cuz if you that down for the color of your skin and for Africa and that's all your blindass can see, then join the Marines. Cuz by your way of thinkin my brother is over there in mothafuckin Africa right now not just talkin shit but literally freein negros. What are you doin for your proud black brethren?

Nobody can feel you if they don't know where you comin from. And if you choose to put up fences, then don't bitch and complain if somebody ain't on your level. Cuz that's your bad not thiers.


"Even the genius asks us questions" -Tupac Shakur
 
May 16, 2002
389
0
0
45
#94
Here's somethin funny. To give you an example of how times are changin: Remember back in the days when people used to call black people who talked "white" oreos? Cuz they were black on the outside and white on the inside. Anybody look on the shelves lately? Now they got reverse oreos. Where people white on the outside and black on the inside. lol.

Racism is only alive in the hearts of a racist.
 

SOLO

Sicc OG
May 23, 2002
431
0
16
#95
SlickSickSix said:
Solo, don't take this as an attack, just trying to clarify things, but it seems to me like you're saying the "white man" can't be diverse. By saying that "those who, perhaps with assistance from their exposure to the culture, come to realize that they are not white at all...that they never were in the first place..." don't you think you're giving off an impression that the "white" race is inferior, that they can't be (for lack of a better term) real? Umm, I was going somewhere further with this, but I forgot. Fuck. Oh well, here's half a reply for you. :(
SSS...I don't take it as an attack. I wasn't trying to imply that the "white race" is inferior. White rap fans who listen to rap, expose themselves to black culture and realize they are not white are those who realize that they no longer cherish white supremacy...

Make sense yet? Hit the next post for a more elaborate explanation...

Thanx for half the reply...post the other half when it comes back to your memory!
 

SOLO

Sicc OG
May 23, 2002
431
0
16
#96
Nitro the Guru said:
With these comments you have gone to far.
Thanks Nitro :classic: If there weren't people to continually advance discourses "too far" then we'd all be stuck in the status quo...

YOU ARE THE FUEL TO THE FIRE THAT IS THE MENTALITY OF THE KKK. It's because of people like you that there can never be peace.


You're probably right about the second statement. I think your first statement is way off base, though...

Has it ever crossed your mind that RAP/HIP-HOP is a form of entertainment that people listen to in order to put their mind's at ease? It is a music that appeals to them, makes them feel good about themselves, enables they to have a more enjoyable time when they are out having fun, the list goes on.


It crossed my mind that so-called white rap fans listen to rap because it makes them feel good about themselves, but that the same fans "discount a crucial reason rap was invented: White America's economic and psychological terrorism against black people" (Bomb The Suburbs, p. 20). Like I said, some people can use the music for their own benefit and then put it on the shelf when they're done with it, while others don't have that luxury.

1. What the fuck is a "so-called" white? If you have "WHITE" colored skin, then you are a "WHITE" person. The same goes for "BLACK" people.


I don't know anyone who has white colored skin, nor do I know anyone who has black skin. White is the color of the paper that I feed through my printer. Do you know anyone who has that skin color?

A "so-called" white is a person who believes he is white. The truth is that there are no "white" people. There are Scottish people, and Irish people, and German people, and Jewish people, and all kinds of people, but there are no "white" people. There is no "white" gene nor is there a threshhold skin tone to be considered "white." There is no "white" race since people who call themselves "white" come from all over the place. Therefore I say "so-called whites." See James Baldwin, "On Being 'White'...and Other Lies."

2. You said that MOST "WHITE" people exploit "BLACK" art for their own benefit, whilst maintaining white supremicist beliefs. What is your source for this? What is your proof and what is it that lead you to believe...


Well, for one, your own posts lead me to believe it. But I can't give you all the credit.

The MAJORITY of "WHITE" people involved with "BLACK" art form are CONSUMERS. How can a consumer of rap music be exploiting African Americans and benefiting from them by buying a product such as a music CD?
The majority of so-called whites indirectly involved with hip hop (rap) may be consumers, but the most influential could best be described as OWNERS. That is, owners of distribution, publishing, advertising, media, promotion...EDJ and HERESY have already spoken on this situation at length, and quite effectively.

3. What is the "TRUE" message rap/hip-hop brings that "BLACK" people understand, that "WHITE" people don't? How do you know? If you ask me, it is the "BLACK" people that don't truely understand this message you speak of. Prove me wrong.


Most black people seem to understand the discontent, the hatred, and the need to break with the established order and resist that combined to produce rap music. On the other hand, white people (on a broad scale) still have not internalized the real reasons that rap was invented. When I see threads on the Siccness where white rap fans can't admit that blacks created hip hop, that's how I know. When I see rap fans like yourself blaming blacks for their own predicament, that's how I know. When I see posts by people who have such poor understanding of their own internalized white supremacy, that's how I know. There are many ways that I know.

And I think it would be difficult for me to prove anything to you.

NO, RAP/HIP-HOP is a source of PROFIT used by African Americans to make money. No matter how many artists will tell you that there is some hidden MESSAGE in their music, when it comes down to it, the BEAT and LYRICS are formulated to fit the interests of it's consumers. If CONSUMERS wanted to hear nothing but BANJO's and SCREAMING is rap music, then thats what you will hear.


Rap was not invented (in the first place, originally) to make money nor was it formulated to fit the desires of consumers. However, once it began attracting the consumer dollar, more influential people began to take notice, and their influence shaped the music into some of what you see today. EDJ already made all of these points. You make an excellent observation about the control that the owners exert on the art form. However, you seem to overlook the aspect of who profits the most from artists' success. It's not the artists themselves, it's the owners. Somewhere I have saved a copy of a breakdown of the artists' expenses & final cut from an album release. I can repost it if you want to see the real deal economics...

The only people I have ever seen relate "WIGGERISM" solely to MUSIC, is YOU and EDJ.


It's an honor to be considered among the intellectual ranks of EDJ. However, William "Upski" Wimsatt covered the issue of "wiggers" in Bomb the Suburbs (book) and according to him television talk shows had already covered the subject by the time his book went to print. Bomb the Suburbs was published in 1994.
 

SOLO

Sicc OG
May 23, 2002
431
0
16
#97
Ender said:

Racism is only alive in the hearts of a racist.
Racism is alive and well in every American institution. Unfortunately the mainstream has been fooled into believing that "racism" merely consists of individual discriminatory actions, and that it can be eliminated by masking, disguising, or purporting to eliminate those actions.

Just because the "WHITES ONLY" signs have come down doesn't mean anything has truly changed...
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#98
Racism is alive and well in every American institution. Unfortunately the mainstream has been fooled into believing that "racism" merely consists of individual discriminatory actions, and that it can be eliminated by masking, disguising, or purporting to eliminate those actions.

Just because the "WHITES ONLY" signs have come down doesn't mean anything has truly changed...

:dead: x6,666,873,736

:H:
 
Dec 18, 2002
3,928
5
0
38
#99
edj seems to want to claim ownership of anything considered a part of the "nubian sub-culture" to people with dark skin and keep those fuckin white devils out of it. . .just like when us white devils wanted the people with dark skin to stay out of "our" bathrooms and schools. . .you cant own anything in an integrated society with a clash of cultures, no cultures are owned here, nothing is sacred, and therefore everything is shared and dominated.

and whoever said that the beastie boys rapped when there was no real definition of a culture that invented rap was wayyyy wrong, the beastie boys were accepted into the rap scene because they were true, they didnt claim they were hard or from the streets, they just rapped about true shit to them and didnt try to be fake. rap has been around for awhile.....read up
 
Mar 18, 2003
5,362
194
0
44
SOLO said:
Thanks Nitro :classic: If there weren't people to continually advance discourses "too far" then we'd all be stuck in the status quo...
Your right, and we also wouldn't have had any World War's, Slavery, Racial Groups, or Terrorist Bombings.

SOLO said:
It crossed my mind that so-called white rap fans listen to rap because it makes them feel good about themselves, but that the same fans "discount a crucial reason rap was invented: White America's economic and psychological terrorism against black people" (Bomb The Suburbs, p. 20).
I won't even argue that. Im sure the mjaority of "WHITE" hip-hip fans have no idea of why it was invented, and despite much of the negetivity it produces, im sure there was a good meaningful reason. What you fail to see is, the majority of "BLACK" people don't even know why it was invented. So until you can prove that every "BLACK" fan of hip-hop knows of it's origination and the meaning behind it's invention; the fact that "WHITE" people don't know the history in detail, is hardley an issue.

SOLO said:
Like I said, some people can use the music for their own benefit and then put it on the shelf when they're done with it, while others don't have that luxury.
Everyone has that luxury, only some think they don't.

SOLO said:
I don't know anyone who has white colored skin, nor do I know anyone who has black skin. White is the color of the paper that I feed through my printer. Do you know anyone who has that skin color?

A "so-called" white is a person who believes he is white. The truth is that there are no "white" people. There are Scottish people, and Irish people, and German people, and Jewish people, and all kinds of people, but there are no "white" people. There is no "white" gene nor is there a threshhold skin tone to be considered "white." There is no "white" race since people who call themselves "white" come from all over the place. Therefore I say "so-called whites." See James Baldwin, "On Being 'White'...and Other Lies."
I don't think I need to see anything on "Being White", you havent said anything here that I havent said a thousand times. Do you think I place the words "BLACK" and "WHITE" in quotations because I like to type? I have been saying this through countless threads. A major problem (especially in the African American community) is the generalization of the "white" race. You see, it's young cats like those on this board who like to say "white" people are responsible for slavery, when it "was a subclass theirin". There are people in this world having had nothing to do with slavery, neither did their ancestors, yet they get the LABEL of being "WHITE" in America. Where were you when I was arguing these other cats on this issue, do you guys have a bond to never disagree? You kids crack me up.

SOLO said:
Well, for one, your own posts lead me to believe it. But I can't give you all the credit.
You can't give me any credit with that empty statement.

SOLO said:
The majority of so-called whites indirectly involved with hip hop (rap) may be consumers, but the most influential could best be described as OWNERS. That is, owners of distribution, publishing, advertising, media, promotion...EDJ and HERESY have already spoken on this situation at length, and quite effectively.
Actually, quite ineffectivley. They have done nothing but make accusations and place the blame, they have not gone into ANY detail about it whatsoever. Clearly your jumping sides for (to me) apparant reasons.

SOLO said:
Most black people seem to understand the discontent, the hatred, and the need to break with the established order and resist that combined to produce rap music. On the other hand, white people (on a broad scale) still have not internalized the real reasons that rap was invented..
Have you any documented statistics on this? Have you gone through and done a survey to come to such a conclusion? You folks seem to like documented proof, so lets see it. YOU don't have the slightest factual basis that any more "BLACK" people know the roots of hip-hop more then any "WHITE" people do. What you can do, is sit there and make these asumptions about an entire race of humans, without any real proof. GO and ask 10 "BLACK" people who the first rapper was, bet you NONE of them get it.

SOLO said:
When I see threads on the Siccness where white rap fans can't admit that blacks created hip hop, that's how I know.
Where has a "WHITE" rap fan ever claimed that rap was invented by "WHITE" people, or NOT by African Americans. I would really like to read what they had to say.

SOLO said:
When I see rap fans like yourself blaming blacks for their own predicament, that's how I know.
I don't blame "BLACK" people for their situation, I blame "BLACK" people like YOU.

SOLO said:
When I see posts by people who have such poor understanding of their own internalized white supremacy, that's how I know.
You don't even know what white supremacy is.

SOLO said:
When I see threads on the Siccness where white rap fans can't admit that blacks created hip hop, that's how I know. When I see rap fans like yourself blaming blacks for their own predicament, that's how I know. When I see posts by people who have such poor understanding of their own internalized white supremacy, that's how I know. There are many ways that I know.
So you used three WRONG, FALSE, INACURATE claims to prove how "YOU KNOW"? Bahahahahaha!

SOLO said:
And I think it would be difficult for me to prove anything to you.
Your probably right.

SOLO said:
Rap was not invented (in the first place, originally) to make money nor was it formulated to fit the desires of consumers. However, once it began attracting the consumer dollar, more influential people began to take notice, and their influence shaped the music into some of what you see today. EDJ already made all of these points.
EDJ said nothing of the sort. Get off his balls and worry about your own.

SOLO said:
You make an excellent observation about the control that the owners exert on the art form. However, you seem to overlook the aspect of who profits the most from artists' success. It's not the artists themselves, it's the owners. Somewhere I have saved a copy of a breakdown of the artists' expenses & final cut from an album release. I can repost it if you want to see the real deal economics...
I wouldn't mind reading the statistics actually. I would like it even more if you could somehow grab stats from different labels to compare, maybe get an average.

SOLO said:
It's an honor to be considered among the intellectual ranks of EDJ. However, William "Upski" Wimsatt covered the issue of "wiggers" in Bomb the Suburbs (book) and according to him television talk shows had already covered the subject by the time his book went to print. Bomb the Suburbs was published in 1994.
EDJ is a RACIST. So are you. I wouldn't expect anything other then for you to show love to one another like that, regardless that half your guy's comments contradict one another.