No, it does matter because I just showed the flaw in your logic. I’ll type it again:
If you reject the possibility that existence has always existed then you must also reject the possibility that god has always existed. If something cannot come from nothing then this logic must also apply to your creator.
You cannot say I’m wrong for believing the universe has always existed and then turn around and say god has always existed. That comrade would be illogical.
For all we know, the Creator has tricked us into believing that existance has always existed, and there is not a damned thing you can say that would disprove that.
And nor could you prove it.
This is my whole point. God doesn't need to be rational or logical. God can fuck with us any time He feels like it. He leads those astray whom He wishes. This is the way it has always been.
And you got this information and came to these conclusion from where? Certainly not based on logic, which is my whole point.
From a Scientific POV, Existance existing forever...if thats what you want to believe, there is nothing I can really say. It makes sense and as much as I try to sit here and think of a way to cast doubt on it, I cannot.
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Inconsequential. We're talking about creation, which is hotly contested
Verily, we have seen things fall. When things fall, we know that 99.99999999% of the time they come from above.
We have not ever, however, seen something come out of nothing, or seen a single atom deliver us a whole universe. It's beyond missing data; it's missing just about everything but faith.
Again, I never stated that matter came out of nothing; I’ve stated that existence has always existed.
And once again, if you believe that something cannot come from nothing, then this logic
must also apply to a creator. If you do not apply this logic to your creator then you are forced to abandon this part of your argument.
Faith you surely have, you just don't label and recognize it as such.
I beg to differ.
Faith = the opposite of logic and reason. Faith is to believe in something without, or in spite of reason.
My knowledge comes from science, mathematics, physics, etc. My views are based on logic of what we know to exist. Faith is the belief in something that is usually unproven, unsupported and unscientific and is based on irrational thought.
Yet you are so confident that God doesn't exist, you're willing to put your faith in scientists to continue to provide you reasons that matter has always existed.
Again, it’s not faith. Science allows us to test and verify ideas; the belief in the unknown or supernatural cannot be tested nor verified.
The different between you and I, other than our politics, is that you believe in an Unknown, “supernatural” creator with absolutely no supporting evidence or logic, while I on the other hand lack this belief. There has never been one single shred of evidence that suggests any supernatural forces or any type of “existence” outside of our known existence. I am a materialist that sees physical matter being the only reality. We’ve never once found anything that suggests it exists outside of our own reality so to come to the conclusion that an unknown being magically created existence is insanity, IMO.
The existance of God has never been disproven either. Millions of people have tried, and the same exact amount have failed.
No one will ever disprove the existence of god for the same reasons you cannot disprove that an invisible Supreme Being resides above the city of Seattle that sucks all the clouds and is responsible for all the rain we get.
However the difference between the BBT and the Supreme Seattle Being/God is that one has supporting evidence while the other does not.
The fact of the matter is, there is a strong belief that, for example, I cannot just snap my fingers and a piece of bread will appear. That bread must come from SOMEWHERE.
Then the very same must be said about the creator.
You still seem to dance around the point I made that if existence has always existed then there does not need to be a creator.
Maybe you forgot, but earlier you stated and I quote, “From a Scientific POV, Existance existing forever... It makes sense and as much as I try to sit here and think of a way to cast doubt on it, I cannot.”
And believing in a single atomic particle with the density of the entire universe....talk about silliness.[/q7uote]
Really? Then you must also not believe in black holes.
And the only evidence we have of this is our cheap little telescopes that have witnessed all of a few hundred years of activity. We take a few hundred years period, and apply it BILLIONS of years back.....its just craziness to me. We can do better.
Actually our “cheap little telescopes” are gigantic and cost billions of dollars and not to mention, we don’t observe “a few hundred years of activity” we can literally see stars and galaxies in their beginning stages and in their final stages from BILLIONS of years ago. We can literally see what occurred in our universe BILLIONS of years ago. I think this last paragraph of yours really shows how little you know regarding cosmology. There is a good book by Stephen Hawking called, “The Universe in a Nutshell” which he does a great job taking mind-bending questions and answering them in a way regular people can understand. You might want to check it out.
