UFC 143
- Thread starter Chuy Savedra
- Start date
I've been on mmajunkie and there are some interesting debates going on over there. I'll post a few comments, which have some merit:
"sure he was afraid of getting pinned against the cage.......because that is all condit ran from.......THE CAGE
condit was throwin.......and throwing hard but when is the last time DIaz was finished?..........i mean Daley got close but look what happened to him.
*edit* i'll add DIaz was more terrified of condit........i mean he ONLY wanted to engage if he had him pinned against the cage.............so one way to look at it is Diaz only wanted to fight condit if he had a HUGE advantage and didn't want to engage anywhere else."
"People keep calling Condit a point fighter after last night, where were Diaz's attempts to finish the fight? Condit was throwing spinning back fists/elbows, flying knees, head kicks. Diaz walked forward looking to keep Condit against the cage (something he rarely managed to do), and when he did get Condit there, he'd land a few punches before Condit escaped the position.
MMA isn't a "you hit me, I hit you" contest, it's a sport with rules and fighters come in with tactics. Diaz simply couldn't adjust his gameplan, was looking to do the same thing for 25 minutes with little success, while Condit was out striking him."
"Maybe if Diaz had hit Condit more he would have won, but 50 less strikes? Come on man.
And one fight doesn't make someone a point fighter. Condit has all of 2 decisions in his career. How many does Diaz have again?"
"Condit finishes Rory McDonald - a fighter who is otherwise unbeaten, KOs Dan Hardy, something no-one else in the UFC has done and beats Dong Hyun Kim, who was also similarly unbeaten - but is apparently a 'runner' when he adopts a sensible gameplan against arguably the most aggressive striker and effective boxer in the division.
So Condit didn't immobile and trade with Nick Diaz - that's good because to do so is suicide for anyone in this weight class. Condit is a good striker but more varied and technical than Diaz, while not unloading as many blows. Condit managed to score MORE significant strikes and more damage off the back foot and counter striking, while Nick scored more strikes in general and did more moving forward.
I'm not saying I'm wholly behind the decision - I need to watch the fight again - but the knee jerk reaction by the trolls to label Carlos a runner is laughable.
The Art of War teaches that the way to win your battles is to choose the terms of engagement which best suits you - GSP has proven this time and again, compelling Shields & Koscheck to stand when they'd rather grapple, compelling Alves & Hardy to grapple when they'd rather stand - and IMHO it is incumbent on the challenger to drag the champion into their deep water, rather than play into his strategy.
Condit realised that his usual strategy of aggressive offense might not pay off against Nick - who has been KO'd ONCE back in 2002 - and that he might actually open himself to Nick's aggressive boxing and meet the same fate as the laundry list of quality strikers that Nick has TKO'd or decisioned in recent years.
So Carlos ceded control of the centre to Nick, looked to slip & rip, land kicks to keep distance and score points and to score solid counter punches and knees while in the main avouding getting pressed against the cage by Nick. It dodn't always work, but it was the theme of the fight.
This policy seemed to work with the judges - job done."
"So you want Condit to change his name based on last nights performance? In that case...
Wandy- no longer an axe murdered. "Hatchet assailant" ?
BJ Penn- hasn't been a prodigy in some time. Let's just rename him "the pupil"
Machida- dragon? Puff the magic
Fedor- emperor of what?
This list goes on and on. So, in conclusion....You mad? Yeah, you mad."
"Sorry but taunting and not doing anything until your opponent gets close to or up against the cage is not "coming for a real fight"
i don't' get how people are mad about what condit did.............he ran FROM THE CAGE, not from diaz. Is he suppose to do what Penn did and let Diaz throw combo after combo while stuck on the cage?
and he didn't just run he came out throwing and used brillant footwork and angles to get out"
"Exactly. What was Condit supposed to do? Back straight into the cage and allow Diaz to get off an inumerable amount of shots. Hell, if that is the case, Condit should have never left his corner. Condit fought smart, and the 'just bleed' crowd s**t on it cause deep all they want is blood and vicious knockouts. The fare you usually receive in lower tier MMA orgs."
"sure he was afraid of getting pinned against the cage.......because that is all condit ran from.......THE CAGE
condit was throwin.......and throwing hard but when is the last time DIaz was finished?..........i mean Daley got close but look what happened to him.
*edit* i'll add DIaz was more terrified of condit........i mean he ONLY wanted to engage if he had him pinned against the cage.............so one way to look at it is Diaz only wanted to fight condit if he had a HUGE advantage and didn't want to engage anywhere else."
"People keep calling Condit a point fighter after last night, where were Diaz's attempts to finish the fight? Condit was throwing spinning back fists/elbows, flying knees, head kicks. Diaz walked forward looking to keep Condit against the cage (something he rarely managed to do), and when he did get Condit there, he'd land a few punches before Condit escaped the position.
MMA isn't a "you hit me, I hit you" contest, it's a sport with rules and fighters come in with tactics. Diaz simply couldn't adjust his gameplan, was looking to do the same thing for 25 minutes with little success, while Condit was out striking him."
"Maybe if Diaz had hit Condit more he would have won, but 50 less strikes? Come on man.
And one fight doesn't make someone a point fighter. Condit has all of 2 decisions in his career. How many does Diaz have again?"
"Condit finishes Rory McDonald - a fighter who is otherwise unbeaten, KOs Dan Hardy, something no-one else in the UFC has done and beats Dong Hyun Kim, who was also similarly unbeaten - but is apparently a 'runner' when he adopts a sensible gameplan against arguably the most aggressive striker and effective boxer in the division.
So Condit didn't immobile and trade with Nick Diaz - that's good because to do so is suicide for anyone in this weight class. Condit is a good striker but more varied and technical than Diaz, while not unloading as many blows. Condit managed to score MORE significant strikes and more damage off the back foot and counter striking, while Nick scored more strikes in general and did more moving forward.
I'm not saying I'm wholly behind the decision - I need to watch the fight again - but the knee jerk reaction by the trolls to label Carlos a runner is laughable.
The Art of War teaches that the way to win your battles is to choose the terms of engagement which best suits you - GSP has proven this time and again, compelling Shields & Koscheck to stand when they'd rather grapple, compelling Alves & Hardy to grapple when they'd rather stand - and IMHO it is incumbent on the challenger to drag the champion into their deep water, rather than play into his strategy.
Condit realised that his usual strategy of aggressive offense might not pay off against Nick - who has been KO'd ONCE back in 2002 - and that he might actually open himself to Nick's aggressive boxing and meet the same fate as the laundry list of quality strikers that Nick has TKO'd or decisioned in recent years.
So Carlos ceded control of the centre to Nick, looked to slip & rip, land kicks to keep distance and score points and to score solid counter punches and knees while in the main avouding getting pressed against the cage by Nick. It dodn't always work, but it was the theme of the fight.
This policy seemed to work with the judges - job done."
"So you want Condit to change his name based on last nights performance? In that case...
Wandy- no longer an axe murdered. "Hatchet assailant" ?
BJ Penn- hasn't been a prodigy in some time. Let's just rename him "the pupil"
Machida- dragon? Puff the magic
Fedor- emperor of what?
This list goes on and on. So, in conclusion....You mad? Yeah, you mad."
"Sorry but taunting and not doing anything until your opponent gets close to or up against the cage is not "coming for a real fight"
i don't' get how people are mad about what condit did.............he ran FROM THE CAGE, not from diaz. Is he suppose to do what Penn did and let Diaz throw combo after combo while stuck on the cage?
and he didn't just run he came out throwing and used brillant footwork and angles to get out"
"Exactly. What was Condit supposed to do? Back straight into the cage and allow Diaz to get off an inumerable amount of shots. Hell, if that is the case, Condit should have never left his corner. Condit fought smart, and the 'just bleed' crowd s**t on it cause deep all they want is blood and vicious knockouts. The fare you usually receive in lower tier MMA orgs."
THIS IS THE PART OF MMA THAT SUCKS...GRANTED FIGHTERS GOTTA STRATEGIZE AND FIGHT SMART...BUT CC'S STOCK DEFINITELY WENT DOWN IN ALOT OF PEOPLE'S EYES...I LIKE CONDIT BUT WE ALL KNOW WE WANTED TO SEE A FIGHT...
NOT POINT KARATE OR TAG...SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHAT GOT BOXING FANS TO FALL OFF.
THE JUDGING AND SCORING IN MMA IS STUPID AND INCONSISTENT...MOST THESE JUDGES DONT EVEN KNOW SHIT ABOUT THE SPORT...
ANYWAYS TOUGH LOSS FOR DIAZ...TOUGH WIN FOR CONDIT...
CONDIT AND GSP IS GONNA BE A POTENTIAL SNOOZEFEST
NOT POINT KARATE OR TAG...SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHAT GOT BOXING FANS TO FALL OFF.
THE JUDGING AND SCORING IN MMA IS STUPID AND INCONSISTENT...MOST THESE JUDGES DONT EVEN KNOW SHIT ABOUT THE SPORT...
ANYWAYS TOUGH LOSS FOR DIAZ...TOUGH WIN FOR CONDIT...
CONDIT AND GSP IS GONNA BE A POTENTIAL SNOOZEFEST
LMAO! Nick Diaz has some of the craziest fans and haters. Look at this post from a Nick Diaz youtube video LOL:
"FUCK YOU CAVE BOY.RECESSIVE REDNECK.BACK END OF THE GENE POOL,LAST TO BE CIVILIZED,BOY FUCKIN PARASITIC CANNIBALISTIC SHIT COVERD PORK EATER,BORN AGAIN VIRGIN, WET DOG SMELLING FALSE TEETH WEARING,BALDING BITCH TIT MISFIT MURDERER.FUCKIN LOSER IF YOU ASK ME."
The guys reply:
"WHATS THAT YOU PATHETIC AIDS NIGGER JEW FAGGOT GETTING FUCKED IN THE ASS BY YOUR DOG WHILE YOUR DAD WEARS A DRESS AND SUCKS THE CUM OUT YOUR BLOODY AIDS LEAKING ASSHOLE
YOU LITTLE FAGGOT RUPAL BOY GEORGE ROCK HUDSON AIDS NIGGER TRYING TO TALK TOUGH
I ALREADY PUNCHED OUT NICK DIAZ AND MADE HIS MOM SUCK MY DICK WHILE YOUR DAD WORE A DRESS AND MADE OUT WITH HER AFTER THEN BLEW THE CUM IN YOUR CEREAL SO YOU CAN EAT IT LIKE THE DICK RIDER FAGGOT YOU ARE
STOP AIDS FAG"
WTF?!?!?!?! This shit is hilarious. There's like pages and pages of these 2 going back and forth. Kind of entertaining lol.
"FUCK YOU CAVE BOY.RECESSIVE REDNECK.BACK END OF THE GENE POOL,LAST TO BE CIVILIZED,BOY FUCKIN PARASITIC CANNIBALISTIC SHIT COVERD PORK EATER,BORN AGAIN VIRGIN, WET DOG SMELLING FALSE TEETH WEARING,BALDING BITCH TIT MISFIT MURDERER.FUCKIN LOSER IF YOU ASK ME."
The guys reply:
"WHATS THAT YOU PATHETIC AIDS NIGGER JEW FAGGOT GETTING FUCKED IN THE ASS BY YOUR DOG WHILE YOUR DAD WEARS A DRESS AND SUCKS THE CUM OUT YOUR BLOODY AIDS LEAKING ASSHOLE
YOU LITTLE FAGGOT RUPAL BOY GEORGE ROCK HUDSON AIDS NIGGER TRYING TO TALK TOUGH
I ALREADY PUNCHED OUT NICK DIAZ AND MADE HIS MOM SUCK MY DICK WHILE YOUR DAD WORE A DRESS AND MADE OUT WITH HER AFTER THEN BLEW THE CUM IN YOUR CEREAL SO YOU CAN EAT IT LIKE THE DICK RIDER FAGGOT YOU ARE
STOP AIDS FAG"
WTF?!?!?!?! This shit is hilarious. There's like pages and pages of these 2 going back and forth. Kind of entertaining lol.
Yeah fuck you Condit for not standing in place and letting Diaz beat you down. Condit was landing well on Diaz when he'd move in, he doesn't have to apologize to anyone for fighting the way you he did. I like how most of the people slamming Condit right now praise Machida when he employs a don't get hit at all cost strategy too.
It's sad after how many exciting fights Condit has been people dismiss him as a boring point fighter. Blame Diaz for not being able to do anything to swing at him when he's on the cage. I thought Diaz won myself but a robbery? No maam.
It's sad after how many exciting fights Condit has been people dismiss him as a boring point fighter. Blame Diaz for not being able to do anything to swing at him when he's on the cage. I thought Diaz won myself but a robbery? No maam.
Props. I definitely wanted Diaz to win, and of course I'd rather see a slugfest, but I understand that's not the smartest thing to do and can't fault Condit for implementing a good game plan. I was a little disappointed that Diaz did nothing to change HIS gameplan after failing to keep Condit against the cage, which seemed like was the ONLY thing he wanted to do the entire fight. I had Condit winning the fight though. And yeah, Machida does the same shit and people praise him for "never taking any damage".
Personally, if GSP isn't ready soon and Condit is going to fight someone until then, I'd love to see a Condit vs Diaz rematch.
Personally, if GSP isn't ready soon and Condit is going to fight someone until then, I'd love to see a Condit vs Diaz rematch.
Like I said tho, it's a lose lose for condit or ANYONE who fights a now exposed Diaz. That's the way to beat him is don't get caught on the cage and brawl with him. So anybody circling out with GOOD angles are gonna be labeled "runners". It's HARD to knocc Diaz out. So mos likely the opponent won't knocc him out and be labeled a point fighter. AND I LIKE THE DIAZ BROS.
The more well rounded people the more technical fights are going to be. Striking in MMA, IMO, still isn't halfway as good as I think it'll years down the road as more and more people get refined in it. At the end of the day Condit, or anyone for that matter, shouldn't do something that would cause them to lose a fight especially when it's the most important fight of their career up to that point.
Condit is now guaranteed a shot at GSP and the most important thing any person could ask for in financial stability especially if he were to beat GSP and people want him to get silly and risk losing all that because they want to see people "fight like men"?
Condit is now guaranteed a shot at GSP and the most important thing any person could ask for in financial stability especially if he were to beat GSP and people want him to get silly and risk losing all that because they want to see people "fight like men"?