THE FAKEST RELIgION

miggidy · Nov 21, 2003

SJN14 said:

What I told EDJ.
Some bibles confine all the books in one so I was posting what I saw in my bible.
I knew it was first John in other bibles but I thought you and EDJ would figure that out.
In any case, my bad.

miggidy · Nov 21, 2003

HERESY said:

Sure thing, I have a few ideas here and there so I'll hit you up some time this weekend.

HERESY · Nov 21, 2003

Certain parts of my reply were chopped off last night (I don't know how I could have missed it) but I have em here.

Concerning angels and the heiracrhy of angels you have 9 types of angels that comprise 3 groups known as CHOIRS.

EACH choir resides at a certain location and each choir has certain tasks. These listings are in order of RANK.

The FIRST Choir consists of

Seraphim: Are "SONS OF FIRE" CLOSEST (physically) to the Throne and chant the Trisagion.

Cherubim: Hold the knowledge of HA-SHEM and the Heavens.

Ophanim (Thrones): Are the CHARIOTS of HA-SHEM and bring about JUDGEMENT.

The SECOND choir consists of

Hashmallim (Dominions/Dominations): Direct the lower ranks of angels and control the cosmos.

Tarhishim/Malakim (virtues): Direct blessings, oversee the celestial bodies and control the natural world (rain,snow,summer etc etc etc)

Powers: Guard and control the borders of Heaven. Most "rebels" are listed as Powers.

The THIRD choir consists of

Principalities: Deal with nations,cities, rulers,laws and governments. They direct arch angels and angels.

Arch angels: Are leaders and "princes" over nations and kingdoms. Arch angels battle and direct orders to angels.

Angels: Lowest of angels and deal with men, personal affairs of men and act as messengers who carry the Word of GOD.

If one wants to study the order of angels or ANGELOLOGY they can pick up books or hit the web. A lot of info may be found.

Concerning JESUS and MICHAEL hit these links:

http://www.geocities.com/donotloseyourfaith/michael.html

http://www.watchman.org/jw/jcname.htm

SO what is JESUS right now? Is he in jesus or michael mode??????? If you say michael is jesus (based on the meaning of the name michael) where does that put GABRAI'EL?????

Concerning HELL/THE GRAVE/QUBER/THE PRISON/GAN EDEN AND THE JEWISH VERSION OF HELL I PROVIDED ***MANY*** LINKS AND INFO IN THE OTHER THREAD. IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE JEWISH VERSION OF HELL STUDY JUDAISM. YOUR STUDIES WILL MOST LIKELY LEAD TO BALAK. IF NO HELL OR LAKE OF FIRE EXISTS YOU HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH NOT ONLY THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS BUT WITH REV 20 11-15.

CONCERNING the 144,000 READ the book of revelations again. If only 144,000 are going to heaven why do you have A GREAT MULTITUDE WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER standing before the THRONE and the LAMB? IN REV 7:9-17 THEY ARE BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD SERVING HIM DAY AND NIGHT IN HIS TEMPLE.

INCREDIBLE.

IN REVELATIONS 10 HORNS, 7 CROWNS, 7 STARS ,7 LAMPSTANDS , 7 LAMPS OF FIRE, 2 OLIVE TREES, 2 LAMP STANDS AND 2 BEASTS ARE EXPLAINED. IN EACH CASE THE NUMBER IS *LITERAL* AND THE SYMBOLISM EXPLAINED. IF THE 144,000 ARE A SPIRITUAL ISRAEL (WHICH NO SCRIPTURE HAS SHOWN TO BE TRUE) THAT WOULD MEAN YOU LITERALLY HAVE 1444,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE SPIRITUAL ISRAEL....THAT CONTRADICTS THE ROMAN 2 VERSE THAT WAS SUPPLIED.

ASK YOURSELF:

1.HOW DOES ONE BECOME A MEMBER OF SPIRITUAL ISRAEL?

2.CAN ONE LEAVE SPIRITUAL ISRAEL?

3.WHAT CONSTITUES BEING SPIRITUAL ISRAEL?

@ EDJ Concerning your answers to the parable they are lackluster to say the least.

The first verse you provided has NOTHING to do with damnation/hell/the grave etc etc etc. It simple describes what the wicked are doing but it does not place emphasis on them being wicked people IN THE GRAVE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED DAMNATION.

The second verse you listed shows that the wicked "melt away" and it says the DESIRE of the wicked shall PERISH. You shouldnt have even used the verse.

The third verse you listed deals with the sons being cast out to darkness. Once again I don't see how it helps your arguement when this place describes THE ABYSS. The sons of the kingdom are cast OUT INTO OUTER DARKNESS. Where is this place? The grave? If so EVERYONE is going here.

The fourth verse you listed deals with outer darkness. This is a PARABLE not a LITERAL event. WHERE IS THIS OUTER DARKNESS? FOR A PERSON TO BE CAST INTO OUTER DARKNESS IMPLIES THAT THIS IS A PLACE.

The fifth verse you listed is another parable. I don't see why you listed it other than the fact that it contains weeping and gnashing.

Everything I have previously listed may be applied to the sixth verse you listed.

Same with the seventh verse. If you simply cease to exist what is the use of using WEEPING AND GNASHING to describe those who have been cut off? If you cease to exist HOW can you weep and gnash? What is the act of weeping and gnashing symbolic of? BEING SEPERATED? IT CANT BE THAT BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE *CAST OUT* SHOWS THEY HAVE BEEN SEPERATED.

YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

YOU SAY IT WAS AN "ILLUSTRATION" OF THE SECOND DEATH. AN ILLUSTRATION IS A PARABLE, PICTURE,STORY THAT CAN BE USED AS A FORM OF EXPRESSION OR TO CONVEY AN IDEA. ONCE AGAIN THAT WOULD BE ANSWERING A PARABLE WITH A PARABLE OR ANSWERING A PARABLE WITH SYMBOLIC MEANING.

YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

ACCORDING TO REV 20: 11-15 THE SECOND DEATH IS DESCRIBED AS THE BOOK OF LIFE BEING OPENED, THE DEAD BEING JUDGED, THE SEA GIVING UP THE DEAD WHO WHERE IN IT AND DEATH AND HADES GIVING UP THE DEAD WHO WERE IN THEM.

VERSE 14 STATES THAT DEATH *AND* HADES ARE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. IF THE LAKE OF FIRE IS NOT LITERAL *OR* THE LAKE OF FIRE IS HELL YOU HAVE A SERIOUS CONTRADICTION. IF THE LAKE OF FIRE IS SYMBOLIC SO IS THE BOOK OF LIFE BEING OPENED AND JUDGEMENT AS IT ALL TAKES PLACE AS ONE EVENT.

IN VERSE 15 YOU FIND ANYONE NOT FOUND IN THE BOOK OF LIFE CAST NOT INTO HELL, HADES, THE PIT, SHEOL OR QUBER BUT INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

THE LAKE OF FIRE AND HADES/HELL CANNOT BE THE SAME PLACE BECAUSE HADES/HELL IS THROWN *IN* THE LAKE OF FIRE.

YOU MAKE NO SENSE AT ALL. THIS IS WHY I ASKED YOU TO STOP DEBATING THE MATTER. YOU SIMPLY DON'T MAKE SENSE.

Do not quote Ez 18:4,20 AND Eccl 9:3-10 as they wont help your case. Now if you are NOT a j.w. why are you endorsing the jw bible, the doctrine and make excuses for the leaders? Do you see non muslims sticking up for islam? You may see them making clarifications (I have done thsi in teh past) but you DONT see them ENDORSING THE DOGMA/DOCTRINE. You have NEVER spoken out against the JW organization or doctrine. You have quoted it, listed it, made refrences to it and openly praised it. You have NEVER condemned them or the teachings. So if you are not a jw what are you?

:HGK:

PS you DONT have to answer the questions. I listed them as something to think about NOTHING more. I dont want you to answer them.

Mcleanhatch · Nov 21, 2003

what this i heard today about i newly found verse on a tomb that is part of the gospel according to Luke???

i just heard it in a quick newsbrief on the radio Paul Harvey's show

THA RIPPA · Nov 21, 2003

^ i saw that on yahoo

EDJ · Nov 21, 2003

MIggIDY,
YOU STRESSED, "If I shot from the hip it was because I could swear that your link took me to the JW version of the bible."

MISTAKE #1. YOUR ASSUMPTIVE AND BIAS BEHAVIOR HAVE CAUSED YOU EMBARASSMENT. I THOUgHT WE WAS COO'? YOU TREATIN' ME LIKE NON-WORTHY BASTARD THAT DESERVES DEATH.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I am almost certain about that, it was there I saw the title."

SHOW ME. MISTAKE #X. YOUR ASSUMPTIVE BEHAVIOR AND BIAS HAVE CAUSED YOU TO BE DELUSIONAL, OR EITHA A LIAR.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Then after checking the link a few days after, it took me to some other version of the bible."

MISTAKE #3. YOU AIN'T gOT TO LIE TO KIK IT. AND THAT'S WHY WE CAN'T SERIOUSLY TALK ABOUT THE BIBLE, CAUSE YOUR ERRORS AND LIES ARE EVIDENT AND ARE PROOF THAT YOU CAN'T SPEAK WHAT THE BIBLE REALLY STRESSES WITHOUT PREJUDICE AND BIAS.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Did you change the fucking link?"

HELL MUTHA-FUK NAW CUZZ. DO YOU SEE AN EDIT MESSAgE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAgE? WHY WOULD I SEND YOU TO A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS PAgE WHEN I KNOW YOU DESPISE THEM AND WHATEVA INFO THEY TRY TO PROVIDE? I WAS TRYIN' TO SHOW YOU WITH DIFFERENT SOURCES. YOU gOT CAUgHT UP.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "LOL! Nevamind...."

EXACTLY! YEAH, CLEAN IT ON UP THEN.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Heresy already shed some light here so lets continue."

NOPE. HERESY WAS NOT ORIgINALLY PART OF THIS CONVERSATION TO BEgIN WITH TIL HE LIED AND JUMPED ON IN FOR HIS PERSONAL REASONS. SO YOU HAVE THE BURDEN TO EXPRESS WHAT HERESY WAS TRYIN' TO SAY THEN SINCE YOU WANNA JUMP ON HIS WAgON(NO HERESY, YOU LET MIggIDY DO THE RESEARCH AND PROVE THE POINT).

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Romans, this is the part where the apostles conclude that one does not need to become a Jew first in order to become a Christian. You know, Jewish circumcision and all that.
It's pretty straight forward."

SO THAT WOULDN'T APPLY TO THE 144,000 ALSO?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Galatians, is pretty straight forward as well.
Salvation through Christ and so on."

SO WHAT DOES "NEITHER gREEK OR JEW, NEITHER MALE OR FEMALE, AND NEITHER SLAVE OR FREEMAN IN UNION WITH CHRIST JESUS" MEAN AND IMPLY?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I understand that bro. But some of the stuff you're saying that you get out of one passage is contradicted by another."

PER YOUR PERCEPTION. BUT PLEASE NAME 5 EXAMPLES AND PROVIDE SCRIPTURE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Hell is a good example of that. You say you don't believe in the same hell as Christians do (eternal fire/pain/punishment)."

BULLSHIT. BELIEVIN' IN A PLACE OF TORMENT CONTRADICTS OTHA SCRIPTURES, (gOD)'S PERSONALITY(LOVE, READ "1ST" OF JOHN 4:8), LOgIC, AND JUSTICE(EYE FOR AN EYE RULE). 70-80 MEASILY YEARS(AND MOST OF THEM IN PAIN AND AgONY, AND DEALIN' WITH THE BULLSHIT OF THIS WORLD) DON'T ADD UP TO AN ETERNITY OF TORMENT.

READ JEREMIAH 7:31 IT STATES THAT (gOD) DIDN'T COMMAND FOR FOO'S TO THROW THEY SONS AND DAUgHTER IN THE FIRE CAUSE THE SHIT'S NOT IN HIS HEART. SO IF BURNIN' YOUR CHILDREN IN THE FIRE IS NOT IN HIS HEART, IT'S NOT ON A LARgER SCALE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Read Luke 16: 19-31
""There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz'arus, full of sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz'arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz'arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'"

You see what I'm saying?"

I COULD SEE THAT YOU CAN PERCEIVE SOMETHIN' IF TOOKEN LITERAL. THAT WAS A PARABLE IN STORY FORM. EVEN THE JERUSALEM BIBLE AKNOWLEDgES THAT IN A FOOTNOTE. IT'S NOT IN REFERENCE TO N-E HISTORICAL PERSONAgE.

BUT SINCE WANNA TAKE IT LITERALLY, THAT WOULD MEAN THAT:

1.)THOSE ENJOYIN' DIVINE FAVOR COULD ALL FIT AT THE BOSSOM OF ONE MAN, ABRAHAM.

2.) THAT THE WATER ON ONE'S FINgERTIP WOULD NOT BE EVAPORATED BY THE FIRE OF HADES.

3.) THAT A MERE DROP OF WATER WOULD BRINg RELIEF TO ONE SUFFERIN' THERE.

DOES THAT SOUND REASONABLE TO YOU?
IF IT WAS LITERAL IT WOULD CONTRADICT OTHA PARTS OF THE BIBLE. IF THE BIBLE WAS CONTRADICTORY, WOULD A LOVER OF TRUTH USE IT AS A BASIS FOR HIS FAITH? I KNOW I WOULDN'T. BUT THE BIBLE DOESN'T CONTRADICT ITSELF.

SO WHAT DOES THE PARABLE MEAN?

THE "RICH" MAN REPRESENTED THE PHARISEES(SEE VERSE 14). THE BEggAR LAZARUS REPRESENTED THE THE COMMON JEWISH PEOPLE WHO WERE DESPISED BY THE PHARISEES BUT WHO REPENTED AND BECAME FOLLOWERS OF JESUS(SEE LUKE 18:11; JOHN 7:49; MATHEW 21:31,32) THEIR DEATH WAS ALSO SYMBOLIC , REPRESENTIN' A CHANgE IN CIRCUMSTANCES. THUS, THE FORMERLY DESPISED ONES CAME INTO A POSITION OF DIVINE FAVOR , AND THE FORMERLY SEEMINgLY FAVORED ONES WERE REJECTED BY (gOD), WHILE BEIN' TORMENTED BY THE JUDgEMENT MESSAgES DELIVERED BY THE ONES WHOM THEY HAD DESPISED.-----ACT 5:33; 7:54

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You claim that I'm clutching on to my Catholic upbringing but you see how you still hold on to certain JW ideals?"

WHETHA IT'S THEY IDEALS, BULLSHIT, OR TRUTH ITSELF, I CHEK FOR MYSELF AND TRY TO FIND FLAWS TO WHAT IS PRESENTED TO ME. I DON'T JUDgE THE PERSON ITSELF. I JUDgE WHAT IS PRESENTED. JUST LIKE WHEN HERESY PRESENTS SHIT TO ME, I CHEK IT OUT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I don't hold on to my early Catholic ideals because I never believed in them.
I do hold on to my Christian ideals, because I'm a follower of Christ."

BUT A FIERY HELL IS TAUgHT IN CATHOLICISM. A TRINITY IS TAUgHT IN CATHOLICISM. SO WHY DO YOU STILL BELIEVE IN THAT IF YOU NEVA BELIEVED IN WHAT CATHOLICISM TAUgHT IN THE FIRST PLACE? AND YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST BUT YOU FOLLOWIN' MAN-MADE DOCTRINES. CHRIST NEVA TAUgHT THAT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "They don't see themselves as Christ's sheep."

HOW YOU FIgURE? WHAT DO THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS THEN? HOW YOU KNOW?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "LOL!
The bible that I have doesn't break down John into different books. It keeps his books in one.
But all you had to do was check all second chapters of John's books to see if I was lying or not.
But oh well.... Shit happens...."

NO, YOU HAVE THE BURDEN TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SPEAKIN' OF. YOU CAN'T BE CONFUSIN' TEXTS. AND EVEN IF YOU WERE HONESTLY TELLIN' THE TRUTH, IF YOU ARE WELL VERSED IN THE BIBLE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO DIFFERENTIATE THE BOOKS WHEN REFERENCIN' THEM. AND YOU HAD PLENTY OF TIME FOR THAT. I KEPT TELLIN' YOU AND TELLIN' YOU AND YET AND STILL IT DIDN'T COME UP TO YOUR MIND? I HAD TO BRINg THAT POINT UP AFTER YOU BROUgHT THEM LINKS. YOU WERE ACTIN' CLUELESS. DO I HAVE TO PLAY DETECTIVE FOR YOU? IF I WAS IN YOUR SHOES AND YOU TOLD ME NO SUCH TEXT EXISTED I WOULD OF LOOKED INTO IT AND FOUND MY FLAW. YOU DIDN'T. YOU ACCUSED ME OF USIN' A CORRUPT VERSION OF THE BIBLE CAUSE OF YOUR BIAS. AND THAT'S WHAT SEPERATES ME FROM YOU.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "See, it's your subconscious tryin to talk to you"

THIS ABOUT THE ONLY THANg I BELIEVE YOU STRESSIN' CORRECTLY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Some bibles confine all the books in one so I was posting what I saw in my bible.
I knew it was first John in other bibles but I thought you and EDJ would figure that out."

I DID FIgURE IT OUT. THAT'S WHY WE ALL KNOW NOW. BUT YOU KEPT INSISTIN' IT WAS SIMPLY "JOHN". SO I WAS gOIN' BY YOUR WORD, EVENTUALLY IT WASN'T ENOUgH.

EDJ · Nov 21, 2003

HERESY,
YOU JUST WANTED THE LAST WORD LIAR-LOAK. THANKS FOR REFERRIN' ME TO ANTI-JEHOVAHS' WITNESS SITES. AND ONCE AgAIN, YOU DON'T WANNA TALK RELIgION BUT YOU QUIK TO RESEARCH AND TRY TO MAKE YOUR POINTS. I KNOW MY LOgIC PERPLEXXES YOU, AND I'M NOT A HATA TO TRY TO SPEAK ON PEOPLE BLASPHEMOUSLY. FOR THE RECORD, I'M E-D-MUTHA-FUCCIN'-J, A SEEKER OF TRUTH. YOU WILL NEVA CONVINCE ME THAT FALSE DOCTRINES ARE BIBLE-BASED CAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.

SO DO WHAT YOU DO AND DON'T gET MAD CAUSE I DON'T DANCE TO YOUR TUNE, UNLESS IT'S A TIgHT BEAT WE PRODUCE.

Mcleanhatch · Nov 22, 2003

miggidy said:

i think this above here that you talk about is also in ACTS Chapter 15 Verses 1-11

miggidy · Nov 24, 2003

Mcleanhatch said:

Yes and there's also a good chance that this tomb belongs to Simon.
More proof for the skeptics who say the New Testiment is fictional....

miggidy · Nov 24, 2003

EDJ said:

I'm not embarrassed and I'm not treating you like nothin but the friend I've never met in person.
Drop this shit bro, I was just joking around.

EDJ said:

What difference does it make?
Have you read the entire book of Revelation?
Peep it and try to understand who the 144,000 anointed ones are. They are not people who pre existed the times of tribulation, they "are" the people who recieved the seal of God "in" the times of tribulation so that that they are not affected by the removal of the 7th seal.

Do me a favor and before you reply, go read the book of Revelation in it's entirety.
It is pretty clear as to who the anointed ones are. You will even get a better understanding for who the "great multitude" are.

EDJ said:

I know where you are headed with this.
But it doesn't matter, read what I said about the 144,000 anointed ones above....

EDJ said:

Are you reffering to the anointed ones or hell?
Either way, read the book of Revelation and you will find what you seek.

EDJ said:

Read this: Revelation 14: 9-11
"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

How can you argue against that EDJ?
Evil will be torched for ever.
Jesus said it and here Revelation says it again.
You ask, "How can our loving God do such a thing?"
God will never do this to his children, you are right.
But he will to those who turn their backs on Him and choose the path of Lucifer. Have you forgotten about Sodom and Gamorah?
The Canaanites? And the days of the great flood?
It's the same loving God destroying these wicked people.
How is that different from eternal punishment?
Dog, you need to free yourself of this JW mentality.
The lake of fire is real, maybe not literately but there is a place of torment for Satan, his fallen angels, and the wicked souls of man.

EDJ said:

We can sit here and debate about whether this was a parable or not (which I believe it isn't) But I won't.

EDJ said:

"1.)THOSE ENJOYIN' DIVINE FAVOR COULD ALL FIT AT THE BOSSOM OF ONE MAN, ABRAHAM."
Isn't that what the covenant between and Abraham and his children is all about?

"2.) THAT THE WATER ON ONE'S FINgERTIP WOULD NOT BE EVAPORATED BY THE FIRE OF HADES."
It means, that Water on one's finger tip can keep you from falling into the flames of Hades.

"3.) THAT A MERE DROP OF WATER WOULD BRINg RELIEF TO ONE SUFFERIN' THERE."
Again, that Water will keep anyone from burning in Hades.

You understand what the Water represents right?

EDJ said:

I could agree with "some" of that....

EDJ said:

I do the same.

EDJ said:

Hell and the Trinity is taught in the Protestant church and every "Christian" denomination.
Jehova Witnesses and Mormons are the only ones who disagree.
Well at least when it comes to Hell.

This is not Catholicism, it's Christianity....
Christ taught it and so did his Apostles.
I follow what they teach and not what "one" guy researched on his own. One tree whom time after time showed what was in it's heart from the fruit it gave. Sure, many have corrected this trees flaws, so they believe. But like them, you still hold some of it's ideals. All I can say is that you should never stop researching this stuff. You know Jesus said that you will find what you're looking for if you continue to search for it.
I'm sure you'll find it some day....

EDJ said:

From what I said above, they follow their own research influenced by a bad tree.
Their beliefs go against the teachings of Christ, there for they are not Christian....

EDJ said:

What ever makes you feel better man.
I could've sworn your link took me to the JW bible.
But who gives a shit. I could care less.
I gave you the scripture, it was you who questioned it. So if you were well versed, then you would've recognised it.
So how the apples taste?
We can go on forever, let me know if you want to continue this "You ain't well versed" bullshit.
In the mean time, take 2 of these and call me in the morning....

EDJ · Nov 29, 2003

MIggIDY,
I AIN'T SAID I'M THE BEST WELL VERSED BIBLE MASTER IN THE WORLD, CAUSE IF I DID, I WOULD BE LYIN'. I KNOW LIL SOMETHIN'-SOMETHIN' LIKE I HAVE SHOWN. BUT AS I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T WANNA TALK RELIgION WITH YOU CAUSE YOUR BIAS MAKES YOU SEE SHIT AND START MAKIN' FALSE ACCUSATIONS AS YOU HAVE PROVEN AND I DON'T WANNA THINK OF YOU AS ONE OF THEM PEOPLE BUT SOMEBODY'S THAT'S COO'.

BUT PEEP:

YOU STRESSED, "I'm not embarrassed and I'm not treating you like nothin but the friend I've never met in person.
Drop this shit bro, I was just joking around."

JOKIN' BOUT WHAT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "What difference does it make?"

CAUSE I WANNA TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT "YOU" BELIEVE AND WHY. HERESY AND YOU CAN HAVE DIFFERENT BELIEFS ABOUT SPECIFIC SHIT AND BIBLE INTERPRETATION ABOUT DIFFERENT PASSAgES. PLUS YOU A gROWN ASS MAN THAT CAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Have you read the entire book of Revelation?"

YES, AS A CHILD AND IN SPANISH. SO ALL THIS SHIT AS A gROWN MAN AND IN ENgLISH IS KIND OF NEW TO ME. PLUS HEARIN' DIFFERENT PERCEPTIONS ABOUT WHAT EACH THANg IS SYMBOLIC OF, gOTS ME WONDERIN' AND PUTS THANgS IN PERSPECTIVE FOR ME.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Peep it and try to understand who the 144,000 anointed ones are."

I HAVE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "They are not people who pre existed the times of tribulation, they "are" the people who recieved the seal of God "in" the times of tribulation so that that they are not affected by the removal of the 7th seal."

SO WHAT ARE THE TIMES OF TRIBULATIONS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Do me a favor and before you reply, go read the book of Revelation in it's entirety."

I HAVE. IT'S PRETTY SCARY IF YOU gO BLINDLY AND NOT KNOW WHAT IS WHAT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "It is pretty clear as to who the anointed ones are. You will even get a better understanding for who the "great multitude" are."

WHO IS THE gREAT MULTITUDE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I know where you are headed with this."

WHERE AM I HEADED WITH THIS?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "But it doesn't matter, read what I said about the 144,000 anointed ones above...."

WHY DOESN'T IT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Are you reffering to the anointed ones or hell?"

EITHA OR. FUK IT, BOTH. AND ALSO ABOUT THE TRINITY. 5 EXAMPLES AND SCRPITURES FOR EACH.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Either way, read the book of Revelation and you will find what you seek."

I HAVE READ. AND I STILL SEEK. PROVIDE SCRIPTURE, EXPLANATION, gREEK ROOT WORDS, AND HOW THAT PASSAgE CONTRADICTS WHAT I HAVE STRESSED AND WHY I SHOULD INTERPRET THE WAY YOU TRYIN' TO SAY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Read this: Revelation 14: 9-11
"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

How can you argue against that EDJ?

EASILY. SO IF I INTERPRET IT AS LITERAL AND NONE OF THAT SYMBOLIZIN' SOMETHIN' ELSE, IT WOULD CONTRADICT OTHA PASSAgES OF THE BIBLE. SO WHY WOULD THE BIBLE CONTRADICT ITSELF? IT DON'T. SO EITHA THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS ITSELF, OR YOU'RE MISINTERPRETTIN' THE PASSAgE TO WHAT IT MEANS. REMEMBER THAT THE BIBLE IS IN PERFECT HARMONY WITH EACH OTHA. SO, SINCE IT DOESN'T CONTRADICT ITSELF, YOU ARE MISINTERPRETTIN' IT.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Evil will be torched for ever.
Jesus said it and here Revelation says it again."

EXACTLY. THEY WILL NOT EXIST N-E LONgER.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You ask, "How can our loving God do such a thing?"
God will never do this to his children, you are right.
But he will to those who turn their backs on Him and choose the path of Lucifer. Have you forgotten about Sodom and Gamorah?
The Canaanites? And the days of the great flood?
It's the same loving God destroying these wicked people.
How is that different from eternal punishment?"

THE DIFFERENCE IS AS YOU MENTIONED, THESE PEOPLE WERE DESTROYED, NOT TORMENTED. WHAT PURPOSE DOES IT SERVE? I NEVA SAID (gOD) DIDN'T DESTROY HIS ENEMIES. AND THE XCOND DEATH IS THAT, ETERNAL DAMNATION(NON-EXISTENCE). THEY "CUT-OFF" FROM LIVIN'.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Dog, you need to free yourself of this JW mentality."

THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE IN ERROR. I HAVE NO TIES TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. THEY RESEARCH HAS OPENED MY EYES TO SEE FOR MYSELF WHAT IS WHAT. AND I CHOOSE TO SEE FOR MYSELF WHAT IS TRUE. YOU THE ONE THAT SEEMS TO CLINg ON TO THE SHIT YOU BEEN TOLD SINCE YOU WERE LITTLE. ATLEAST PEEP gAME TO WHAT I'M STRESSIN'. I KNOW WHAT YOU STRESSIN' AND DONE HEARD IT TIME AND AgAIN. BUT SEE, YOUR LOgIC FALLS SHORT WHEN:
1.) OTHA PARTS OF THE BIBLE CONTRADICT WHAT YOU INTERPRET

X.) IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, LOgICALLY, REASONABLY, OR N-E OTHA WAY

3.) THAT CONCEPT HAS A MEDIEVAL TWIST AND DEPICTS gOD WITH A HUMAN TYPE BEHAVIOR OF HATE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "The lake of fire is real, maybe not literately but there is a place of torment for Satan, his fallen angels, and the wicked souls of man."

IF IT AIN'T LITERAL, WHAT IS THIS PLACE? SO HOW IS IT EQUAL FOR A MAN TO SUFFER THE SAME PUNISHMENT AS THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN DECEIVIN' FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS? WHAT IS THE EQUALIZER?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "We can sit here and debate about whether this was a parable or not (which I believe it isn't) But I won't."

gET YOUR BELIEFS STRAIgHT. SEARCH IF IN DOUBT. SOAK THIS gAME IF YOU CAN. TAKE BOTH BELIEFS AND CROSS REFERENCE BOTH. TRY TO DISPROVE BOTH.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Isn't that what the covenant between and Abraham and his children is all about?"

IT AIN'T TALKIN' BOUT ABRAHAM'S SEED. YOU TAKIN' IT LITERAL, SO YOU SAYIN' THAT ABRAHAM IS IN HADES TOO AND MUTHA-FUKAS FIT ON CUZZ'S CHEST(IF TOOKEN LITERAL).

THEN YOU STRESSED, "It means, that Water on one's finger tip can keep you from falling into the flames of Hades."

HOW'S THAT, YOU ALREADY IN HADES(IF TOOKEN LITERAL)? YOU TELLIN' ME THERE'S WATER THERE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Again, that Water will keep anyone from burning in Hades."

HOW'S THAT? ONE DROP OF WATER CAN'T STOP A FUCCEN FIRE HERE ON EARTH. SO HOW CAN ONE MERE DROP OF WATER COO' YOU DOWN IN A PLACE WHERE THE FIRE IS FOREVA?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "You understand what the Water represents right?"

WHAT DOES IT REPRESENT? I THOUgHT YOU SAID THE SHIT WAS LITERAL? MAKE UP YOUR MIND. DOES THE PASSAgE REPRESENT SOMETHIN' OR IS IT LITERAL?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I could agree with "some" of that...."

THEN WHAT DO YOU DISAgREE WITH?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Hell and the Trinity is taught in the Protestant church and every "Christian" denomination."

EXACTLY. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT AND THAT EARLY CHRISTIANS DID EITHA. IT WAS FORETOLD ABOUT A TIME OF APOSTASY.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Jehova Witnesses and Mormons are the only ones who disagree.
Well at least when it comes to Hell."

HAVE YOU EVA ASKED YOURSELF WHY? HAVE YOU EVA TRY TO SEE WHY THEY WOULD MAKE THAT CLAIM? HAVE THEY SHOWED YOU IN SCRIPTURE AND HAVE THEY SHOWED YOU PROOF, HISTORICAL FACTS, AND gOT TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT SHIT? HAVE YOU MARINATED ON THE THOUgHT?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "This is not Catholicism, it's Christianity....
Christ taught it and so did his Apostles."

WRONg. IT'S LABELED CHRISTENDOM. CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES DIDN'T TEACH SUCH. HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE THEY DID?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I follow what they teach and not what "one" guy researched on his own."

WHAT DOES ONE gUY HAVE TO DO WITH N-E-THANg? WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYIN' HERE? AND WHO IS "THEY"?

EDJ · Nov 29, 2003

CONTINUATION.....

MIggIDY,
THEN YOU STRESSED, "One tree whom time after time showed what was in it's heart from the fruit it gave. Sure, many have corrected this trees flaws, so they believe. But like them, you still hold some of it's ideals."

SO WHAT WAS IN THE HEART OF THAT TREE, HUH? YOU TOO BUSY CONCERNIN' YOURSELF WITH A MAN, WHO AIN'T ABOUT SHIT, INSTEAD OF THE RESEARCH ITSELF.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "All I can say is that you should never stop researching this stuff. You know Jesus said that you will find what you're looking for if you continue to search for it.
I'm sure you'll find it some day...."

THAT'S ALL I CAN DO. I SUggEST, YOU PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "From what I said above, they follow their own research influenced by a bad tree."

OH, SO YOU SAYIN' THAT MUTHA-FUKAS SHOULDN'T TEST THE WORD OF MAN, AND JUST gO WITH THE FLOW, EVEN IF IT'S CORRUPTED?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "Their beliefs go against the teachings of Christ, there for they are not Christian...."

HOW YOU FIgURE? HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE? WITH WHAT RULER DO YOU MEASURE SUCH? IS YOUR RULER CALIBRATED?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "What ever makes you feel better man.
I could've sworn your link took me to the JW bible."

AND YOU HAD THAT PRE-CONCEIVED IDEA THAT I WOULD. I CAUgHT YOU IN A LIE. NOW I'M JUST WONDERIN' WHY YOUR RESPONSE IS EDITED? WAS YOUR REPLY NASTIER THEN WHAT IT IS TO ME OR SAMETHIN'?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "But who gives a shit. I could care less."

EXACTLY. AND THAT'S BEEN YOUR WHOLE ATTITUDE. YOU BLAME ME FOR SOMETHIN' I DIDN'T DO TO TRY TO DISCREDIT ME. AND WHEN I CONFRONT YOU, NOW YOUR SO CALLED CHRISTIAN ASS CAN CARE LESS CAUSE YOU ASSUME THAT LITTLE DETAIL IS MEANINgLESS, WHEN IN REALITY, IT DOES MATTER.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I gave you the scripture, it was you who questioned it. So if you were well versed, then you would've recognised it."

FIFTY-FIRST OF ALL,
NOBODY SAID I WAS WELL VERSED.

XCONDLY,
AS I HAVE EXPLAINED, I MOSTLY KNOW THE BIBLE IN SPANISH. I'M STILL ADJUSTIN' TO WHAT IT SAYS IN ENgLISH, CAUSE I'M NOT A BIBLE THUMPER. AND WHAT TRIPS ME OUT IS MOST PEOPLE THINK THE BIBLE SHOULD BE READ IN OLD ENgLISH. FUK THAT THEE', THOU, THY BULLSHIT. THE BIBLE WASN'T WRITTEN LIKE THAT.
REgARDLESS, YOU SHOULD OF STATED THE SCRIPTURE RIgHT AND MARINATED ON THE MESSAgE INSTEAD OF ACTIN' CLUELESS.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "So how the apples taste?"

WHICH APPLES? THE ONES YOU TRYIN' TO DECEIVE ME WITH LIKE THE SNAKE DID ADAM AND EVE?

THEN YOU STRESSED, "We can go on forever, let me know if you want to continue this "You ain't well versed" bullshit."

STATE YOUR POINT AND BAK IT UP. LET'S MARINATE ON THE SCRIPTURE(IDENTIFYIN' IT AS WELL), WHAT IT MEANS, AND OTHA SCRIPTURES THAT BAK IT UP. DON'T JUST TELL ME. LET'S LOOK UP THE WORDS IN gREEK OR HEBREW AND SEE WHAT DEFINITION THEY SHOULD HAVE. I AIN'T POINTIN' FINgERS ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW OR DON'T KNOW, IF YOU'RE VERSED OR NOT. YOUR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "In the mean time, take 2 of these and call me in the morning...."

AND YOU gO LISTEN TO MY SONgS 51 TIMES AND LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

Jim_beam · Nov 30, 2003

I have never really understood why people get so heated over the fact that somebody talks to a different invisible man than you do. If you believe so strongly in something what the fuck does it matter if someone else believes differently? As far as I am concerned ALL religion is obsolete has outlasted its usefulness...

EDJ · Nov 30, 2003

^WHAT IS IT'S USEFULLNESS?

Jim_beam · Nov 30, 2003

posted by EDJ ^WHAT IS IT'S USEFULLNESS?

A crutch for people who are afraid of death and what happens after....

EDJ · Nov 30, 2003

^SO WHAT IS AFTER DEATH?

Jim_beam · Dec 1, 2003

nothing you are worm food

EDJ · Dec 12, 2003

^SO WHY ARE WE HERE?

n9newunsixx5150 · Dec 13, 2003

Jim_beam said:

Not necessarily...

I was an atheist, completely comfortable with the idea of death as the end of my existence...

I didn't find what I know now out of fear.

Some people may, but not all, apparently.

Saying that death is the end of existence is nonsensical and shows that people do not really know what existence is.

Of true existence there is no cessation.

As far as the sane mind is compelled to accept, we EXIST!
Anything contrary to this is on some abstract phantasmagoria...

In this material world change is the only enduring quality. When one understand the self, stripped of the material designations often identified with, one sees an existence that is changeless.
At least as far as one can perceive in this current incarnation. But, how would a body that is *constantly* in a state of growth and decay, produce a consciousness that is fundamentally unchanging?

If I say "my body", who is this "my" that the body supposedly belongs to?
If I say "my mind", who is this "my" that the mind supposedly belongs to?

If, in ten years, I use these "my" terms, although my knowledge here has most likely grown to reflect what may appear to be a change, would I then not be the same "my"???

If we have no truly enduring selves, then life suggests chaos...

If life is simply a result of chaos, then there is nothing and we are back to the phantasmagoria ideas which lead more or less to nihilism.

And once again, any sane man is inclined to accept what can be understood by one's capacity to LIVE AND THINK... THAT WE DO EXIST.

n9newunsixx5150 · Dec 13, 2003

tadou said:

Ego means identity.

I believe I did just explain the nature of this identity as opposed to the nature of these material manifestations...

Also, saying that humans were created constitutes a creator.

But regardless of this, the true entity is not created. Only the material body is, in a sense, created, or rather made manifest.

As far as we can see, death is the end of that specific material identity...

That fundamental sense of "I", (or "my", as I put it in my last post), is contrary to the nature of the *constantly* changing material vessel, at least as far as it can be studied... In a material sense, the evidence is not great enough for one coming from a material platform to prove, without doubt, this unchanging self.
But, as far as these things can be studied, the qualities of the self all point to this unchanging reality.
Also, consider the irony in one trying to undoubtedly prove a transcendental property by means of these imperfect material senses. One can only get glimpses based on one's own speculation. And as far as we are inclined to accept that we do exist, we are inclined to accept what existence is in the most sensical way possible...
Of course, this is all reasoning for those of us who do not accept the authority of Scriptures. Regardless, the philosophy is unrivaled by any materialist concepts of existence.

The only thing an atheist can do is try to find fault with the philosophy... they have no sufficient alternative to it.

THE FAKEST RELIgION

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THE HIDDEN HAND...

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Anti-feminist

Anti-feminist