I never meant for this post to get so long, I started writing it at work yesterday and when I came back to work this morning it was half finished and I just pounded some coffee.
HERESY said:
Stealth, the fact that it may still confuse you may stem from the fact that the united states government DID promise some form of reparations.
I didnt know that. But you asked why, if Jews, Japanese, and Native Americans were given reparations, why shouldnt blacks? I think its because the time to do so has ended. I agree that there was a time during America's history that blacks should have received reparations, however:
HERESY said:
So, are we to simply say "it happened lets just move on" simply because slaves no longer exist today? How does that remove the social, mental and economic misfortunes that are a RESULT from slavery? To say that blacks in america no longer suffer from the effects of slavery is 100% false. Slavery was not a short term incident that could be erased or turned off at the drop of a hat. Slavery was kidnapping, destruction of tribes/ancestors, illiteracy, poverty; etc.
I agree that these effects still exists, but you say how does the fact that slaves no longer exist remove the misfortunes that occured due to the effects of slavery?
I say that the end of slavery did nothing to remove these misfortunes, but the bigger question is, how will reparations help these misfortunes? If the money and land were given to the ancestors of slaves, how would it be divided? Who would receive it?
Its not that I'm against reparations, its just that I'm not sure that they would help remove someone from a social situation. If plans came up stating that more money would be used for underfunded schools, better community structures in the ghettos, and programs which raise awareness of racism, then I'd probably agree to the allocation of money (and not due to reparation reasons, only because I feel that it is America's job to do these things). But, as it will be argued, these things have already been done and the effects have been helpful yet minimal.
I'm all for giving billions of dollars to the black community if it is used correctly, my only question is, is this the correct use? Keep in mind that I'm white, so I might not even be aware of my own ignorance in posing this question, but that's my current throught process.
As far as why whites haven't apologized on a national level, its easy. There would be no real political gain for apologizing, and we all know that at the national level, nothing is done unless it achieves political gain. Personally though, i feel that the ancestors of slave owners do owe an apology, just in the same way that the ancestors of Nazi's owe an apology. While it isn't their fault, I feel that ancestry carries with it a responsibility to right any wrong committed.
Mr. Nice Guy said:
The second condition would be similar to what the NAACP has been arguing that the people responsible for paying those reparations will be companies and families who can trace their wealth back to the exploitation of slaves.
I agree with this method, but once again, what kind of contempt would that breed between whites and blacks. This isn't exactly a cut and dry issue (as it would have been in the 1860's). Say, for example, that a prominent member of Acme (which is now worth billions of dollars due to the slave trade) is an African-American. Then what? Do we still take money from his company, and then reallocate it to him? Its not that simple.
maculent ways said:
if reperations are given, it should be given to them indirectly... via schools, after school programs, drug prevention, etc
This seems to be the most viable option, and one that most people would support.
I think if money were given directly to decendants of slaves, it would be a constant reminder that "I got this money because the government says that my race is disadvantaged”.
I think Madd Dogg's comments on page one are pretty much on point the entire way through.
Loyalty7414 said:
Im not a hypocrite,my race is being systematicaly oppressed by whites,therefore white people arent too high on my list of people that I like.Could any sane person blame me?Only a small amount of whites are sane and human enough to know that.These few whites are cool in my book.
I understand why you would feel you deserve reparations, but your methods of grouping white people together and giving them all the same traits without judging them on a case by case basis is exactly the same kind of thinking that whites use to oppress blacks. Stereotyping every white as evil devils who systematically oppress black people is like saying that every single black man is a lazy guy who wants to steal your wallet. The white race doesn’t owe you anything. Plantation owners and slave drivers do.
And while we’re on the topic, how many white people really support what the government is doing? Yes, the government is MOSTLY white. Yes, they cater to the white people in such a way that the white people don’t OFTEN complain about their living state. But make no mistake that a lot of us have the same contempt for the government that you do, and by classifying us as part of that group, you are ostracizing yourself from some people who are very much like you, not to mention people who could or would help you if given the opportunity. Many of us, I’d say the overwhelming large majority, are not consciously taking part in any type of conspiracy to keep you oppressed.
Honestly, I think that the educational system is doing an amazing job of teaching equality, but it only began during OUR generation. So we’re gonna have to let some of our racist ass parents and grand parents die out before this new line of thinking is more cemented in the future generations. I honestly feel that if you give it another generation, the overall thinking about racism in the united states will be dramatically different than it is now. Just think of how much blacks have been embraced in white pop culture from the late 80’s to now, in comparison to times before that? I believe that some sections of the government and the community are doing an adequate job of changing the way children are taught about their differences. I believe this because it worked for me, and many people I know. Not to say that this is a cure all, end all, but its makes me angry to sit here and be sympathetic to someone’s cause while they’re bashing my people with generalities.
Points are well made about the job-rates of white felons, the unemployment rates of blacks, the fact that you are held down, how this necessitates illegal jobs. I also understand that the ghettos have low property taxes, meaning that schools are underfunded, meaning that they receive a lesser education, meaning that (even if they do get into college) they are often disadvantaged, meaning they make less money, meaning they have to live in a poorer area with lower property taxes, meaning that their kids will receive a poorer education. I’d never argue that a disadvantage does exist. I just don’t see giving money away as something that will end this problem.
The current social fabric has caused a lot of blacks to take part in jobs such as drug dealing, prostitution, and illegal activity. It has caused crack addiction and alcoholism, as it has been said the blacks have poisoned their own. I would be very weary to give large sums of money to people who are in this condition. Just as the Native Americans were in a very bad social condition, the free reservations and reparations did absolutely nothing to increase the livelihood of Native Americans. Many became alcoholics or opened up casinos, and basically allowed themselves to raped yet again. And the worst part about it was ONCE THE GOVERNMENT DID “THEIR PART” THEY WIPED THEIR HANDS CLEAN OF THE MESS. How many times do you see the government going out of their way to help Native Americans? Not often now, because ‘once they give them land and reparations, their work is done’. So they tried to cover up a problem without actually solving it. Kind of like treating symptoms without healing the disease.
I just think there are better methods of allocating money, which would probably take a longer and more indirect route, and its progress may not be witnessed for generations.
I agree with 2-0-Sixx that at this point, a movement among the laborers is probably necessary. Not because I support a rebellion, but because throughout history this has been the constant successful method of underpriviledged people. But this cannot be a black/white issue. If there is a movement, once again like 2-0-Sixx said, it must be of the WORKING CLASS. As someone else said earlier in this post, its about rich and poor these days.
