Seahawks News Thread
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The Post-Matt Hasselbeck Era
Regardless of how you feel about Matt Hasselbeck, if you are a Seahawks fan you’re concerned about the QB position in 2011 and beyond.
I’m in the pro-Hasselbeck camp and have resided there for quite some time now. It’s possible that he’s not as good as he once was (and his statistics say that he’s much worse), but there are many factors that have contributed to his poor performance. His receivers have let him down (by being injured or simply not that good), his offensive line has let him down (by being injured or AND simply not that good), and his coaches have let him down (impossibly bad game-planning play-calling at times). I’d argue that all of the bad things about Hasselbeck’s performance have little to do with his age and everything to do with how he’s always played. Despite being one of the most articulate and thoughtful QBs in the NFL, he’s always had a propensity to do dumb things on the field. He has always forced throws that he has no business throwing—it’s just his way. He knows better but he does it anyway on the off chance that the play will work. He takes risks and they don’t always pay off. It’s how he’s always played. For better, for worse.
While he has been injured quite a bit over the last few years, most of his injuries are not age related. The Patrick Willis shot to the ribs comes to mind—unless you’re wearing a coat of armor, your ribs are going to give way causing your face to redden-up like a 75-year-old drunkard’s nose after a three-day binge on Fighting Cock. Now the gluteal pull in Tampa? That injury does not happen to a 28-year old. That’s age catching up to him—embarrassingly so.
So, when it comes to Hasselbeck’s RexGrossminian performances, very little of the mistakes have to do with physical (read: age) limitations. His poor performances are due to mental miscues. He knows it, and the Seattle front office knows it. I’d be willing to bet that the guy can play at least three more years at an acceptable level, but I don’t think it’s going to happen in Seattle.
No one outside of Hasselbeck’s camp and the Seahawks camp knows the numbers that were being tossed back and forth before the lockout. But I’d be willing to guess that Hasselbeck believes that he can play at a high level for at least three, but possibly four more years. Seattle hopes that’s the case, but doesn’t want to prospectively pay for that hope. I’d bet that they are offering a two year deal with significant performance-based incentives and that’s just not cutting it for Hasselbeck’s camp. My guess is that the following teams (in addition to Seattle) are at the very least interested in his services: San Francisco, Minnesota, Arizona, Cincinnati (if Palmer leaves), Tennessee, and Washington. If he wants to win and win big, the most obvious choice is San Francisco. They have a great foundation and clearly underachieved last year. They are primed to be monsters this year if they get a capable QB to run their team. Hasselbeck would be perfect for them because they have a lot of offensive weapons and a young and somewhat promising offensive line (still developing and had some issues last year, but they’ll get better) that will save him from himself (e.g. he won’t feel like he has to force things). As a Seattle fan, I don’t want to see this happen, obviously. But as a Hasselbeck fan…
Tennessee and Minnesota both look like good opportunities for Hasselbeck to start, but neither are as attractive as San Francisco from a winning potential destination. However, Hasselbeck’s Seattle “legacy” as it were would be enhanced if he left for Tennessee because he’d be in the AFC (and not playing for a division rival) and also be tutoring Seattle’s (UW Contingent) Favorite Son, Jake Locker.
Here’s how I see the percentages:
To San Francisco: 55%
To Tennessee: 25%
Stay in Seattle: 10%
Elsewhere: 10%
So, if Hasselbeck is gone, Seattle did not draft a QB over the weekend, and Charlie Whitehurst is the only guy under contract in Seattle, what now?
I’ll say this: the landscape is so barren that I am actually thinking that Matt Leinart would be a good option.
Here is a list that I found of the free agent QBs (minus Peyton Manning who isn’t going anywhere and of course minus Matt Hasselbeck):
Wow. That’s a bad list. I was pining for Troy Smith before the Whitehurst trade last year and I would take him again, but he’s not “the future” for any franchise. But I do think that he’s more accurate and less erratic than Whitehurst. But that’s like arguing which TV show rots the mind less Basketball Wives or The Real Housewives of WhoCaresWhere. Honestly, what guy on that list would you want? Gun to my head I’m taking a flier on Matt Moore, Brodie Croyle, or Matt Leinart and then I’d ask you to pull the trigger because none of those guys is going to lead this team anywhere near .500.
So what’s the plan? Does Seattle have a trade in the works for Kevin Kolb? I guess that it’s possible, but for a team like Seattle that is so lacking in quality depth, it’s really risky to give up high draft choices (the only way to get Kolb) for a QB who is certainly good, but somewhat unproven as to how good. Seattle is not an enviable position especially in a division that many pooh-pooh, but who I think may actually get two teams into the playoffs in 2011 (if there is one). That’s right, the NFC West was and has been a laughingstock for awhile, but you heard it here first, the NFC West is going to nab one of the Wild Card slots (subject to change, of course…e.g. if Alex Smith is QB’ing San Francisco then forget I said anything).
Put it this way, if Seattle goes into the 2011 season with Whitehurst under center and any combination of the guys on the above list, you’re looking at a 4-12 to 6-10 season.
I like what the Seahawks did philosophically in the draft (heavy on o-line, heavy on DBs and defense generally) with the exception of not taking a QB (I was hoping for Ricky Stanzi late, but it wasn’t in the cards—and while I really like Andy Dalton, I completely understand the reason for going O-Line with their first pick, it probably would have been irresponsible not to). They needed help desperately on the offensive line and they addressed that with James Carpenter and John Moffit (whom I described on Twitter as Samuel L. Jackson’s wallet in Pulp Fiction). I think people would have been more excited had Seattle picked Gabe Carimi simply because that’s a name that people knew leading up to the draft and who was projected to go higher than he did (No. 29 to Chicago) but clearly Seattle didn’t like him that much (nor did Bill Parcells as we found out a few days before the draft). Here’s an interesting thing about Carpenter, on the Wednesday before the draft, the NFL Network’s Mike Lombardi was on Bill Simmons’s podcast. Simmons asked Lombardi what offensive linemen he liked and he said Carpenter, calling him the second-best tackle in the draft (not sure who he had first). So if you value Lombardi’s opinion, then you have to be happy with what Seattle did. I like that they drafted Kris Durham (although not in the fourth) a big WR (because with Whitehurst’s inaccuracy, you need big windows to throw to) but I love how he’s being labeled as a possession receiver because the guy averaged over 20 yards per catch at Georgia last year. People see a big (6’5), white receiver and automatically think “possession.” Well, he might be, but the guy was also timed at 4.43 at his pro day so do with that what you like.
And now the draft is over and I’m always a little bummed by that because of all the speculation and anticipation that goes into the process. Only this year my despair is heightened exponentially due to the moronic lockout. Please, fellas, figure if the fuck out.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/undraftedfreeagent/2011/05/02/the-post-matt-hasselbeck-era/
Regardless of how you feel about Matt Hasselbeck, if you are a Seahawks fan you’re concerned about the QB position in 2011 and beyond.
I’m in the pro-Hasselbeck camp and have resided there for quite some time now. It’s possible that he’s not as good as he once was (and his statistics say that he’s much worse), but there are many factors that have contributed to his poor performance. His receivers have let him down (by being injured or simply not that good), his offensive line has let him down (by being injured or AND simply not that good), and his coaches have let him down (impossibly bad game-planning play-calling at times). I’d argue that all of the bad things about Hasselbeck’s performance have little to do with his age and everything to do with how he’s always played. Despite being one of the most articulate and thoughtful QBs in the NFL, he’s always had a propensity to do dumb things on the field. He has always forced throws that he has no business throwing—it’s just his way. He knows better but he does it anyway on the off chance that the play will work. He takes risks and they don’t always pay off. It’s how he’s always played. For better, for worse.
While he has been injured quite a bit over the last few years, most of his injuries are not age related. The Patrick Willis shot to the ribs comes to mind—unless you’re wearing a coat of armor, your ribs are going to give way causing your face to redden-up like a 75-year-old drunkard’s nose after a three-day binge on Fighting Cock. Now the gluteal pull in Tampa? That injury does not happen to a 28-year old. That’s age catching up to him—embarrassingly so.
So, when it comes to Hasselbeck’s RexGrossminian performances, very little of the mistakes have to do with physical (read: age) limitations. His poor performances are due to mental miscues. He knows it, and the Seattle front office knows it. I’d be willing to bet that the guy can play at least three more years at an acceptable level, but I don’t think it’s going to happen in Seattle.
No one outside of Hasselbeck’s camp and the Seahawks camp knows the numbers that were being tossed back and forth before the lockout. But I’d be willing to guess that Hasselbeck believes that he can play at a high level for at least three, but possibly four more years. Seattle hopes that’s the case, but doesn’t want to prospectively pay for that hope. I’d bet that they are offering a two year deal with significant performance-based incentives and that’s just not cutting it for Hasselbeck’s camp. My guess is that the following teams (in addition to Seattle) are at the very least interested in his services: San Francisco, Minnesota, Arizona, Cincinnati (if Palmer leaves), Tennessee, and Washington. If he wants to win and win big, the most obvious choice is San Francisco. They have a great foundation and clearly underachieved last year. They are primed to be monsters this year if they get a capable QB to run their team. Hasselbeck would be perfect for them because they have a lot of offensive weapons and a young and somewhat promising offensive line (still developing and had some issues last year, but they’ll get better) that will save him from himself (e.g. he won’t feel like he has to force things). As a Seattle fan, I don’t want to see this happen, obviously. But as a Hasselbeck fan…
Tennessee and Minnesota both look like good opportunities for Hasselbeck to start, but neither are as attractive as San Francisco from a winning potential destination. However, Hasselbeck’s Seattle “legacy” as it were would be enhanced if he left for Tennessee because he’d be in the AFC (and not playing for a division rival) and also be tutoring Seattle’s (UW Contingent) Favorite Son, Jake Locker.
Here’s how I see the percentages:
To San Francisco: 55%
To Tennessee: 25%
Stay in Seattle: 10%
Elsewhere: 10%
So, if Hasselbeck is gone, Seattle did not draft a QB over the weekend, and Charlie Whitehurst is the only guy under contract in Seattle, what now?
I’ll say this: the landscape is so barren that I am actually thinking that Matt Leinart would be a good option.
Here is a list that I found of the free agent QBs (minus Peyton Manning who isn’t going anywhere and of course minus Matt Hasselbeck):
- Kyle Boller (OAK)
- Marc Bulger (BAL)
- Kellen Clemens (NYJ)
- Kerry Collins (TEN)
- Todd Collins (CHI)
- Brodie Croyle (KC)
- Dennis Dixon (PIT)
- Trent Edwards (JAC)
- Bruce Gradkowski (OAK)
- Rex Grossman (WAS)
- Caleb Hanie (CHI)
- Tarvaris Jackson (MIN)
- Matt Leinart (HOU)
- Luke McCown (JAC)
- Matt Moore (CAR)
- Chad Pennington (MIA)
- Brady Quinn (DEN)
- Alex Smith (SF)
- Troy Smith (SF)
- Jim Sorgi (NYG)
- Drew Stanton (DET)
- Tyler Thigpen (MIA)
- Billy Volek (SD)
- Seneca Wallace (CLE)
Wow. That’s a bad list. I was pining for Troy Smith before the Whitehurst trade last year and I would take him again, but he’s not “the future” for any franchise. But I do think that he’s more accurate and less erratic than Whitehurst. But that’s like arguing which TV show rots the mind less Basketball Wives or The Real Housewives of WhoCaresWhere. Honestly, what guy on that list would you want? Gun to my head I’m taking a flier on Matt Moore, Brodie Croyle, or Matt Leinart and then I’d ask you to pull the trigger because none of those guys is going to lead this team anywhere near .500.
So what’s the plan? Does Seattle have a trade in the works for Kevin Kolb? I guess that it’s possible, but for a team like Seattle that is so lacking in quality depth, it’s really risky to give up high draft choices (the only way to get Kolb) for a QB who is certainly good, but somewhat unproven as to how good. Seattle is not an enviable position especially in a division that many pooh-pooh, but who I think may actually get two teams into the playoffs in 2011 (if there is one). That’s right, the NFC West was and has been a laughingstock for awhile, but you heard it here first, the NFC West is going to nab one of the Wild Card slots (subject to change, of course…e.g. if Alex Smith is QB’ing San Francisco then forget I said anything).
Put it this way, if Seattle goes into the 2011 season with Whitehurst under center and any combination of the guys on the above list, you’re looking at a 4-12 to 6-10 season.
I like what the Seahawks did philosophically in the draft (heavy on o-line, heavy on DBs and defense generally) with the exception of not taking a QB (I was hoping for Ricky Stanzi late, but it wasn’t in the cards—and while I really like Andy Dalton, I completely understand the reason for going O-Line with their first pick, it probably would have been irresponsible not to). They needed help desperately on the offensive line and they addressed that with James Carpenter and John Moffit (whom I described on Twitter as Samuel L. Jackson’s wallet in Pulp Fiction). I think people would have been more excited had Seattle picked Gabe Carimi simply because that’s a name that people knew leading up to the draft and who was projected to go higher than he did (No. 29 to Chicago) but clearly Seattle didn’t like him that much (nor did Bill Parcells as we found out a few days before the draft). Here’s an interesting thing about Carpenter, on the Wednesday before the draft, the NFL Network’s Mike Lombardi was on Bill Simmons’s podcast. Simmons asked Lombardi what offensive linemen he liked and he said Carpenter, calling him the second-best tackle in the draft (not sure who he had first). So if you value Lombardi’s opinion, then you have to be happy with what Seattle did. I like that they drafted Kris Durham (although not in the fourth) a big WR (because with Whitehurst’s inaccuracy, you need big windows to throw to) but I love how he’s being labeled as a possession receiver because the guy averaged over 20 yards per catch at Georgia last year. People see a big (6’5), white receiver and automatically think “possession.” Well, he might be, but the guy was also timed at 4.43 at his pro day so do with that what you like.
And now the draft is over and I’m always a little bummed by that because of all the speculation and anticipation that goes into the process. Only this year my despair is heightened exponentially due to the moronic lockout. Please, fellas, figure if the fuck out.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/undraftedfreeagent/2011/05/02/the-post-matt-hasselbeck-era/
if we were smart we wouldve kept hasselbeck and got mallet.. since we werent.. we shouldve got mallet and taken collins.. coughed up a losing season but had a vet teach him.. but since were stupid.. were stuck w whitehurst who we wasted a 3rd round pick for
and isnt Vince young a free agent now?
cough this next season as a huge loss.. and hope for luck in 2012.. and get a vet that same year too show him the ropes.. im a huge believer in building a qb.. look at rodgers, hasselbeck, brady... its becoming a common factor for rookie qbs too be busted their rookie season.. especially w a team that has a ton of holes.. it takes a real talented and SMART qb too come in as a rookie and tear it up (props too bradford)
oh yeah... fuck kevin kolb.. ive heard alot of people talk about trading for him.. that would yet again.. be a waste of draft picks
and isnt Vince young a free agent now?
cough this next season as a huge loss.. and hope for luck in 2012.. and get a vet that same year too show him the ropes.. im a huge believer in building a qb.. look at rodgers, hasselbeck, brady... its becoming a common factor for rookie qbs too be busted their rookie season.. especially w a team that has a ton of holes.. it takes a real talented and SMART qb too come in as a rookie and tear it up (props too bradford)
oh yeah... fuck kevin kolb.. ive heard alot of people talk about trading for him.. that would yet again.. be a waste of draft picks
and hasselbeck will not be looked at by tennessee.. they picked locker bc he was the closest thing to Vince young in the draft.. and thats who they've built that team around, he supposedly had a shitty attitude tho. Locker will be the starter of the next season (whenever that may be). i'd put my money of SF (if they were smart) possibly Arizona...
^The Seahawks won the NFC West last year, but finished 7-9. Quarterback Matt Hasselbeck(notes) looks to be out of Seattle, and Kolb could be a great fit. Seattle had a shaky 2011 NFL Draft, and there are a lot of issues with this team. Without the right quarterback, they are in danger of sliding to the bottom of the division. The barely held off the Rams, and the 49ers should be better this year as well. If Kolb goes to Arizona, Seattle will probably be the worst team in the division.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-8426345
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-8426345
Seattle Seahawks NFL Draft picks leave more questions
The Seattle Seahawks finished up the 2011 NFL Draft without making fans very excited about the upcoming season. Most fans that saw what coach Pete Carroll did with the draft picks were left with more questions than answers about where the team might be heading next season. The bigger problem might be that some of the biggest holes on the roster have yet to be filled, stemming the enthusiasm that many fans had after the Seahawks made it to the second round of the 2011 NFL Playoffs.
Seattle had the No. 25 selection in the first round, and many fans had been assuming that the Seahawks were going after a quarterback. It didn't happen. Instead, Carroll drafted offensive lineman James Carpenter(notes) out of Alabama. It was a surprise selection, especially to the analysts that said he would have been available deep into the next round. Seattle didn't have a second round selection after trading it away, so maybe this was a small risk to get a player they liked. Carpenter will definitely be able to start right away, and that does improve the 2011 roster.
In the third round, Seattle had the No. 75 overall selection and took another offensive lineman. This time it was John Moffitt(notes) from Wisconsin, giving them another guy who could start on the line next year. He isn't a defined player, but rather a utility guy, which means he isn't an elite prospect, but that he could definitely provide something Seattle needs. Getting two offensive linemen is about as far from exciting as the draft could have been early on, but there is nobody that will argue that Seattle needed to improve there. Whether that improvement leads to wins is a different question.
Later in the draft, Seattle picked up Mississippi State linebacker K.J. Wright(notes), Georgia wide receiver Kris Durham(notes), Stanford cornerback Richard Sherman(notes), and Appalachian State safety Mark LeGree(notes). All of these guys could find a spot on the roster, and the secondary prospects are all above-average in size. This could allow them to present a much stronger defense against teams with better passing attacks, and hopefully these players can live up to their potential.
Seattle finished of the draft by taking three more players in the last two rounds that consisted of Clemson cornerback Byron Maxwell(notes), LSU defensive end Lazarius Levingston(notes), and USC linebacker Malcolm Smith(notes). They were all talented in college, and will surely get the chance to try and make the roster coming out of camp. They have downsides though, which is why they ended up falling so far in the 2011 NFL Draft. Hopefully these are players that can surprise people, because right now there are too many fans that have come away with an awful opinion of what Seattle did in this draft.
The best work to take away from this draft is "potential," because these players all hold the potential to be good. There are probably no sure-things in the mix though, meaning they will need to receive some good coaching and direction to really shine. It's going to be tough for fans to get on board with these guys, but hopefully Carpenter and Moffitt can really open up some holes that will allow the running backs to actually make a difference in some games this year.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-8411227
The Seattle Seahawks finished up the 2011 NFL Draft without making fans very excited about the upcoming season. Most fans that saw what coach Pete Carroll did with the draft picks were left with more questions than answers about where the team might be heading next season. The bigger problem might be that some of the biggest holes on the roster have yet to be filled, stemming the enthusiasm that many fans had after the Seahawks made it to the second round of the 2011 NFL Playoffs.
Seattle had the No. 25 selection in the first round, and many fans had been assuming that the Seahawks were going after a quarterback. It didn't happen. Instead, Carroll drafted offensive lineman James Carpenter(notes) out of Alabama. It was a surprise selection, especially to the analysts that said he would have been available deep into the next round. Seattle didn't have a second round selection after trading it away, so maybe this was a small risk to get a player they liked. Carpenter will definitely be able to start right away, and that does improve the 2011 roster.
In the third round, Seattle had the No. 75 overall selection and took another offensive lineman. This time it was John Moffitt(notes) from Wisconsin, giving them another guy who could start on the line next year. He isn't a defined player, but rather a utility guy, which means he isn't an elite prospect, but that he could definitely provide something Seattle needs. Getting two offensive linemen is about as far from exciting as the draft could have been early on, but there is nobody that will argue that Seattle needed to improve there. Whether that improvement leads to wins is a different question.
Later in the draft, Seattle picked up Mississippi State linebacker K.J. Wright(notes), Georgia wide receiver Kris Durham(notes), Stanford cornerback Richard Sherman(notes), and Appalachian State safety Mark LeGree(notes). All of these guys could find a spot on the roster, and the secondary prospects are all above-average in size. This could allow them to present a much stronger defense against teams with better passing attacks, and hopefully these players can live up to their potential.
Seattle finished of the draft by taking three more players in the last two rounds that consisted of Clemson cornerback Byron Maxwell(notes), LSU defensive end Lazarius Levingston(notes), and USC linebacker Malcolm Smith(notes). They were all talented in college, and will surely get the chance to try and make the roster coming out of camp. They have downsides though, which is why they ended up falling so far in the 2011 NFL Draft. Hopefully these are players that can surprise people, because right now there are too many fans that have come away with an awful opinion of what Seattle did in this draft.
The best work to take away from this draft is "potential," because these players all hold the potential to be good. There are probably no sure-things in the mix though, meaning they will need to receive some good coaching and direction to really shine. It's going to be tough for fans to get on board with these guys, but hopefully Carpenter and Moffitt can really open up some holes that will allow the running backs to actually make a difference in some games this year.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-8411227
I'm glad they took an OL in the first round instead of a QB. QB can't do shit if he doesn't have a good OL, and a good OL Seattle didn't have. Improving that position should be a high priority for Seattle, and drafting a young OL is key. I think once the lockout is completely through, Seattle will make some noise in FA, and hopefully grab a QB one way or another. And hopefully improve the OL and secondary some more.
im thinking matt wants too much money, or 3 years was too long for managements liking. otherwise they wouldve signed him before the lockout started.
maybe they'll stick wtih whitehurst and test the waters with him.
if we re-sign matt we're looking at maybe 8-8 absolute best, if last year is any indication
if we give whitehurst a shot we're looking at 8-8 absolute best, thats just a wild shot in the dark, giving him a lot of credit because you really cant judge how good he is yet, without at least three more full games played with the game plan built around him.
if we re-sign matt or go and grab kolb or any other quarterback we basically wasted whitehurst, cause hes only got a year left on his contract. its not proven either way if the new o-line is going to make a hugely dramatic difference. for example aaron rodgers had a shotty o-line last season and look at his numbers.
i dont really like the sound of it but it might be the most logical thing to fully commit to the post-hasselbeck rebuilding era and give the wheel to whitehurst, pick up a cheap backup or two and hope for the best. at the absolute worst at least the whitehurst pick wasnt wasted and we get a high pick to draft a QB next year. at absolute best we have a decent season and a new quarterback, at least until we grab a superbowl caliber one again
maybe they'll stick wtih whitehurst and test the waters with him.
if we re-sign matt we're looking at maybe 8-8 absolute best, if last year is any indication
if we give whitehurst a shot we're looking at 8-8 absolute best, thats just a wild shot in the dark, giving him a lot of credit because you really cant judge how good he is yet, without at least three more full games played with the game plan built around him.
if we re-sign matt or go and grab kolb or any other quarterback we basically wasted whitehurst, cause hes only got a year left on his contract. its not proven either way if the new o-line is going to make a hugely dramatic difference. for example aaron rodgers had a shotty o-line last season and look at his numbers.
i dont really like the sound of it but it might be the most logical thing to fully commit to the post-hasselbeck rebuilding era and give the wheel to whitehurst, pick up a cheap backup or two and hope for the best. at the absolute worst at least the whitehurst pick wasnt wasted and we get a high pick to draft a QB next year. at absolute best we have a decent season and a new quarterback, at least until we grab a superbowl caliber one again
