Questions for all Muslims

[HERESY]

Mohammad (saw) is the most beloved prophet to Allah (SWT) he is the seal of the prophets,

According to islam.

sent to ALL of mankind, where the others were sent to their own tribes and people.

How was he sent to ALL of mankind? Man, if I'm not mistaken, I could have sworn you said that he was the prophet of the arabs and muslims only. I need to see if that post still stands. If it does you know what that means right?

Its the will of Allah (SWT),

What is the will of Allah?

humans are not all equal.

Thats up for debate. Why aren't humans equal? Is inequality due to several religious books professing to be the will of god, or does inequality stem from life chances, social mobility, cultural capital and imperialism?

The prophets and messangers (pbut) are the best of mankind.

What seperates them from the rest of mankind?

 

[thapro]

But can't the same be said for all of the "prophets"?

Yes it can. All the prophets including Jesus were great people that made a lot of effort to spread the religion of Allah.

But he IS being associated with Allah. Again, you and I both know that devotion to Muhammad has caused many riffs in the muslim community.

He is not associated with Allah. He was a human being, we are not to worship him. Allah is the supreme being that we worship. How has it caused rifts in the Muslim community? Please explain.

You are saying all muslims should have respect for him, but you and I both know, that the other prophets get little to no respect. Again, you make a drawing of Jesus and few muslims will speak out. You make a drawing of Muhammad and you might get your head sawed from your body with a rusty one.

A true Muslim should show respect of all of Allah's prophets. It is sad that people in this world don't give other prophets the respect that they deserve. A Muslim should be offended if they see a drawing of Jesus depicting him in a negative light.

Stockton explained it, and I can go into a bit more detail. Muslims do not believe in the worship of Jabulon, Krsna, or any deity that may be worshipped in a monotheistic manner EXCEPT when it comes to the God of jews and christians.

I still don't understand (I'm a little slow in the head). I just know that the only God that I worship is Allah.

Why not?

As Showilla said prophets are the best of mankind. They are the rightly guided people.

But does it also open the doors for religious zealots who kill in the name of Allah and his prophet?

No it doesn't. People that kill innocent people for no reason and then claim it in the name of Allah and his Prophet have no basis for their claims.

Does it also create a riff in the muslim community?

No it doesn't.

So, in order to stop people from claiming to be prophets, one should believe that he was the last one. Now, my question to you is how has that belief solved anything?

It doesn't solve anything. All I said was that belief in Muhammad being the last prophet of Allah was one of the requirements for entry into heaven.

You still have muslim scholars and self professed scholars who are STILL at each others throats and and odds and ends over the words in the Quran.

How does this have anything to do with believing Muhammad was the last prophet?

You still have THOUSANDS of people running around claiming to be prophets. Again, how is this beliefe changing anything?

Therefore, the people that claim to be prophets and the people that believe in them are nonbelievers and will not enter heaven

Again, WHY should one accept muhammad? Why can I not just accept Allah and what he has to say? Why does my salvation and eternal placement depend on a man?

First of all, I appreciate this discussion, but we all know that it is not going to change either one of our minds. I know I will not be able to convince you to convert to Islam nor will it change my beliefs in Islam. The reason why accepting Muhammad as being the prophet of Allah is necessary is because the Quran, the words of Allah, were revealed to us through Muhammad. In addition, Muhammad was sent as an ideal example for Muslims to follow. Islam is a way of life and Muhammad showed us how to live our daily lives in accordance to Allah's commands. As Muslims, we are to follow the Quran and Sunnah (the way shown by the prophet Muhammad). I know there are people that don't believe in Sunnah, but the majority of Muslims do.

 

[2-0-NINE]

He is not associated with Allah. He was a human being, we are not to worship him. Allah is the supreme being that we worship. How has it caused rifts in the Muslim community? Please explain.

The Rifts he speaks about is the debate of Certain things in the Quran, the exact words, the correct meanings. Now Nav has presented us another division, Muslims who say Iza is Allah's most beloved Prophet or Mohammad?

I still don't understand (I'm a little slow in the head). I just know that the only God that I worship is Allah.

Though the Doctrines are far apart, do you see similarities of how the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic God is worshiped? Now compare the Worshiping from other mono-theistic religions such as Sikh's, Hinduism, and freemasonry, very unorthodox compared to the way we Three major Monotheists worship our God.

Now the Rest is for the :H: my bad Heresy if I interfered.

 

[HERESY]

Yes it can. All the prophets including Jesus were great people that made a lot of effort to spread the religion of Allah.

No, I don't believe Jesus made ANY effort into spreading the religion of Allah...
There is no record of him spreading Islam, and there is no record of ANY of the OT prophets doing such a thing. Now, you say it can be said for all the prophets, but if this is true, why place one prophet on a higher pedestal?

He is not associated with Allah.

Yes he is! According to the majority of muslims, and what has been stated here, you must accept Allah AND his prophet in order to go to heaven. How is he NOT associated with Allah?

He was a human being, we are not to worship him. Allah is the supreme being that we worship. How has it caused rifts in the Muslim community? Please explain.

Can you explain what caused the rift between Sunni and Shia? Yes, he is a human being, yet YOUR religion says in order to get into heaven you MUST accept him as a prophet.

A true Muslim should show respect of all of Allah's prophets. It is sad that people in this world don't give other prophets the respect that they deserve. A Muslim should be offended if they see a drawing of Jesus depicting him in a negative light.

Again, the majority of muslims DON'T get upset. The point I am making is not that they should get upset, rather, that they DO get upset when muhammad is portrayed in an offensive manner to muslims.

I still don't understand (I'm a little slow in the head). I just know that the only God that I worship is Allah.

Do you want me to explain more, or do you want me to skip over this? It isn't detrimental to the convo, and whatever you feel like doing (in regards to this) is what I'll do.

As Showilla said prophets are the best of mankind. They are the rightly guided people.

The prophets (of the jews and christians) are simply here to give the word of God and each one had the same ministry. They ALL preached WRJ (Stockton no need for YOU to go into this), but I can't say the same for the prophet of Islam. The prophets are not the best of mankind. The prophets are tools used by God, and there is no difference between you and the prophet. God decided to use them, God didn't decide to use you. It does NOT mean these men are any more better than you.

No it doesn't. People that kill innocent people for no reason and then claim it in the name of Allah and his Prophet have no basis for their claims.

There is a MAJOR spirit of HYPOCRISY in the muslim community. Here it is you, like many muslims, will deny that people who do these things are muslims and have no claim to Islam, yet when people tell you those who ordered, funded/supported the crusades were NOT christians you STILL claim they are. And yes, it does open the door to kill in the name of Allah and muhammad.

No it doesn't.

Why is there division amognst the community now?

It doesn't solve anything. All I said was that belief in Muhammad being the last prophet of Allah was one of the requirements for entry into heaven.

And why is that belief required? Why should I have to believe this man was the last prophet of Allah? Why is being the last prophet of Allah important? If Allah is my creator, and he alone did everything, why do I have to accept a human? Why would my eternal placement depend on such a thing?

How does this have anything to do with believing Muhammad was the last prophet?

Listen, you said the following:

Because that opens the door for others to claim that they are prophets. Muhammad was the last prophet and his message should be accepted until the day of judgment.

Part of my reply was:

You still have muslim scholars and self professed scholars who are STILL at each others throats and and odds and ends over the words in the Quran.

Do you understand now? What you quoted is in regards to MUSLIMS who are at odds over the words in the Quran. If the message is truly being accepted, why the problems within the community?

Therefore, the people that claim to be prophets and the people that believe in them are nonbelievers and will not enter heaven

But believe that muhammad is the last one and you will enter...

First of all, I appreciate this discussion, but we all know that it is not going to change either one of our minds.

I appreciate your appreciation, but the fact is, I am not trying to change your mind. The only thing that is going to change your mind is some spectacular experience.

I know I will not be able to convince you to convert to Islam nor will it change my beliefs in Islam.

That is not the purpose of this discussion. Why do people always think about conversion when TALKING? Why can't it be to increase AWARENESS about the other, to LEARN about the others culture, and to RECONCILE the negative history between people of different religions?

The reason why accepting Muhammad as being the prophet of Allah is necessary is because the Quran, the words of Allah, were revealed to us through Muhammad. In addition, Muhammad was sent as an ideal example for Muslims to follow. Islam is a way of life and Muhammad showed us how to live our daily lives in accordance to Allah's commands. As Muslims, we are to follow the Quran and Sunnah (the way shown by the prophet Muhammad). I know there are people that don't believe in Sunnah, but the majority of Muslims do.

This still does NOT answer the question. Slightly informative? Yes, enough to answer teh question? No. So what if Muhammad showed you how to live according to Allahs commands? According to muslims, didn't ALL of the prophets before him do the same thing? So what if the words of Allah were revealed through him? Do you need to accept Gabriele since it is said that he gave the words to him?

 

[ArYo]

I don't know exactly where you got your information, but most of what you posted here is not consistent with what most Sunni Muslims believe in. Firstly, it was not written by 9 enemies nor was it written by man. It is the word of God. Secondly, Muslims do not believe that all religious people will make it into heaven. Only those that proclaim and have firm belief that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet will enter paradise.

Like I said, I could have been wrong about the 9 enemies part, but I know for sure it was a group of enemies that supposedly wrote it together. And all my information is straight out the Quran. If you really need I can send you a copy of the one I have(I have 2 different English versions). I also have a couple documentries on Islam and they all tell this story, so I'm not sure where you get your information. I never claimed to know everything about Islam or said I was the #1 Muslim but I just wrote what I know is true and different parts that I have read over 10 times just to be sure what I was reading is true. But you know reading it in English isn't even close to reading it in Arabic, they say that's the only way you can get the full understanding so ya know. Its funny cuze my Dad is from Iran and the national language is Farsi, but he said most of his family memorized the Quran word for word in Arabic. And even though they could read Arabic, cuze the text is similar to Farsi, he said they really couldn't understand it. Which kinda makes me laugh but hey I guess. Like I said just believe in the man up stairs, be good, ask for forgiveness when needed be, and you'll be good. I laugh at people that sit there and argue which religion is the REAL #1 religion. To me that's like arguing what race of people is superior to who.

 

[2-0-NINE]

I laugh at people that sit there and argue which religion is the REAL #1 religion. To me that's like arguing what race of people is superior to who.

Whether I convert someone or not, I just wanted to understand why Islam is the Truth, I could easily read the Quran and ask a Calif but I'm asking Muslims on here. I had a few questions, which haven't been answered yet.

 

[thapro]

No, I don't believe Jesus made ANY effort into spreading the religion of Allah...
There is no record of him spreading Islam, and there is no record of ANY of the OT prophets doing such a thing.

According to the Quran and hadith Jesus did make an effort to spread the religion of Allah. That is what we Muslims believe.

Now, you say it can be said for all the prophets, but if this is true, why place one prophet on a higher pedestal?

I can give you reasons for this, but they would only be assumptions on my part. Only Allah knows the answer.

Yes he is! According to the majority of muslims, and what has been stated here, you must accept Allah AND his prophet in order to go to heaven. How is he NOT associated with Allah?

The only way that Muhammad is associated with Allah is that Muhammad was the slave of Allah and was trying to convey his message. Acceptance of Muhammad being the last prophet is important. But it is not just acceptance, it includes everything that is associated with that acceptance such as praying five times daily, fasting in the month of Ramadan, giving money to the poor, and all of his other teachings.

Can you explain what caused the rift between Sunni and Shia?

I am not a historian, but from the limited knowledge that I have, the main event that divided Muslims into Sunni and Shia was that the Shias believed that Ali, the grandson of Muhammad, should have been the caliph because he was of his blood while the Sunnis believed that Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman should have succeeded the prophet.

Yes, he is a human being, yet YOUR religion says in order to get into heaven you MUST accept him as a prophet.

Please see my explanation above.

Again, the majority of muslims DON'T get upset. The point I am making is not that they should get upset, rather, that they DO get upset when muhammad is portrayed in an offensive manner to muslims.

Muslims DO get upset when Muhammad is portrayed in an offensive manner and if their faith is strong they also DO get upset when Jesus is portrayed in an offensive manner. It is unacceptable to portray any prophet of Allah in a negative manner.

Do you want me to explain more, or do you want me to skip over this? It isn't detrimental to the convo, and whatever you feel like doing (in regards to this) is what I'll do.

I got Stocktons explanation. I don't think it pertains to me.

The prophets (of the jews and christians) are simply here to give the word of God and each one had the same ministry. They ALL preached WRJ (Stockton no need for YOU to go into this), but I can't say the same for the prophet of Islam. The prophets are not the best of mankind. The prophets are tools used by God, and there is no difference between you and the prophet. God decided to use them, God didn't decide to use you. It does NOT mean these men are any more better than you.

I guess our religions have a difference of opinion in that regard. We regard the prophets the best of mankind because they have been given the divine guidance from Allah himself.

There is a MAJOR spirit of HYPOCRISY in the muslim community. Here it is you, like many muslims, will deny that people who do these things are muslims and have no claim to Islam, yet when people tell you those who ordered, funded/supported the crusades were NOT christians you STILL claim they are. And yes, it does open the door to kill in the name of Allah and muhammad.

I have not read much about the crusades. Therefore, I myself don't have an opinion on it. Now I did not say those people are not Muslim, I simply meant to say there is nothing in the Quran or hadith that supports their view. I can't comment on people that may have a different interpretation of the teachings of Islam. If I was unclear on that matter, I apologize.

Why is there division amognst the community now?

Our faith is weak and we are disobeying Allah's commands.

And why is that belief required? Why should I have to believe this man was the last prophet of Allah? Why is being the last prophet of Allah important? If Allah is my creator, and he alone did everything, why do I have to accept a human? Why would my eternal placement depend on such a thing?

I don't think I can explain this more than I already have.

Listen, you said the following:



Part of my reply was:



Do you understand now? What you quoted is in regards to MUSLIMS who are at odds over the words in the Quran. If the message is truly being accepted, why the problems within the community?

I can't comment for Shias because I don't know much about them, but most Sunni Muslims basically have the same beliefs. 99% of our beliefs are consistent with each other. There might be minor differences in opinions on certain matters, but on major issues, we all believe pretty much the same thing. Therefore, the message has and will be accepted and protected until the day of judgment.

But believe that muhammad is the last one and you will enter...

Along with belief that there is no God but Allah.

I appreciate your appreciation, but the fact is, I am not trying to change your mind. The only thing that is going to change your mind is some spectacular experience.

ok

That is not the purpose of this discussion. Why do people always think about conversion when TALKING? Why can't it be to increase AWARENESS about the other, to LEARN about the others culture, and to RECONCILE the negative history between people of different religions?

Good point. I certainly have learned a lot from reading many of your posts and your questions and comments definitely make me think more deeply.

This still does NOT answer the question. Slightly informative? Yes, enough to answer teh question? No. So what if Muhammad showed you how to live according to Allahs commands? According to muslims, didn't ALL of the prophets before him do the same thing? So what if the words of Allah were revealed through him? Do you need to accept Gabriele since it is said that he gave the words to him?

The other prophets did the same thing as well, but they only relayed the message to their own tribes and people. Muhammad's message is for all of mankind. As mentioned earlier, believing Muhammad was the last prophet is not enough. Following his teachings are also necessary. Therefore, one must accept that the message was revealed to Muhammad through Gabrielle.

Although I enjoy these discussions with you, I simply don't have the time to respond to all of your questions and comments, especially since you disect everything I say word for word. Not that its a bad thing, I like your detail-minded approach, but I just don't have the time. I don't know if I will be able to continue with this conversation further. I may make a comment here and there, but I probably won't be able to go into such detail.

 

[thapro]

Like I said, I could have been wrong about the 9 enemies part, but I know for sure it was a group of enemies that supposedly wrote it together. And all my information is straight out the Quran. If you really need I can send you a copy of the one I have(I have 2 different English versions). I also have a couple documentries on Islam and they all tell this story, so I'm not sure where you get your information. I never claimed to know everything about Islam or said I was the #1 Muslim but I just wrote what I know is true and different parts that I have read over 10 times just to be sure what I was reading is true. But you know reading it in English isn't even close to reading it in Arabic, they say that's the only way you can get the full understanding so ya know. Its funny cuze my Dad is from Iran and the national language is Farsi, but he said most of his family memorized the Quran word for word in Arabic. And even though they could read Arabic, cuze the text is similar to Farsi, he said they really couldn't understand it. Which kinda makes me laugh but hey I guess. Like I said just believe in the man up stairs, be good, ask for forgiveness when needed be, and you'll be good. I laugh at people that sit there and argue which religion is the REAL #1 religion. To me that's like arguing what race of people is superior to who.

I don't know what your beliefs are or where you get your information, but its not what MOST Muslims believe. If you are Shia, I have no idea about your beliefs either. Maybe you can enlighten me.

 

[2-0-NINE]

OK OK, WAIT NO ONE HAS ANSWERED HERESY'S QUESTION. HOW WAS IZA ABLE TO QUOTE THE TENACH OR THE TORAH WHEN HE NEVER READ FROM A BOOK. ACCORDING TO BOTH ISLAM AND MUSLIMS, THE TENACH AND NEW TESTAMENT WERE CORRUPTED, BUT YESHUA, IZA, JESUS, NEVER QUOTED FROM THE BOOK. WHY CAN'T ANY ONE ANSWER HIS QUESTION?

 

[thapro]

OK OK, WAIT NO ONE HAS ANSWERED HERESY'S QUESTION. HOW WAS IZA ABLE TO QUOTE THE TENACH OR THE TORAH WHEN HE NEVER READ FROM A BOOK. ACCORDING TO BOTH ISLAM AND MUSLIMS, THE TENACH AND NEW TESTAMENT WERE CORRUPTED, BUT YESHUA, IZA, JESUS, NEVER QUOTED FROM THE BOOK. WHY CAN'T ANY ONE ANSWER HIS QUESTION?

I don't know if this is correct or not, but the Torah had already been corrupted when Jesus came. Also, I don't know where it says anywhere in the Quran or hadith that Jesus quoted from the Torah. If he did, the information was given to him through divine means. I say divine means because you can also argue how Muhammad, an ordinary man, could have said all the things he did in the Quran. The fact is that it wasn't him, it is really Allah's words. I don't know the process of exactly how the New Testament of written, but the original, unaltered one was acceptable up until the arrival of Muhammd. According to the Quran, the original one predicted the coming of Muhammad so much so that a person would be able to identify him as if it were his own child.

 

[2-0-NINE]

I don't know if this is correct or not, but the Torah had already been corrupted when Jesus came.

Ok like I told Aryo, I'm hear to exchange understanding. But according to Christian/Messianic Doctrine, are we not followers of Iza? How was it corrupted? Is it corrupted according to the Quran? What makes the Quran absolutely sure that God needed to change his own Words? Does that not Contradict him? God would not have allowed his word to be corrupted, God even set rules for himself that he should go buy. So by saying the Quran is absolute compared to the Tenach, and New Testament, Allah is a God of contradictions and lies. A God that can be refuted.

Also, I don't know where it says anywhere in the Quran or hadith that Jesus quoted from the Torah.

If you read Deuteronomy 21:22-23 and Galatians 3:13 do you see any similarities? How about Isaiah 53 and Acts 8:30-35. Psalms 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5. Just a few examples of the New Testament, quoting the Tenach. How can we not say, the Quran may have changed over it's 1400 years of Existence?

If he did, the information was given to him through divine means.

I believe this too but He was the One who was in the Tenach, when the Tenach was written, he was the very inspiration of the Tenach and Torah. I'm willing to understand you, if you're willing to understand me, now read THIS(click the link)

I say divine means because you can also argue how Muhammad, an ordinary man, could have said all the things he did in the Quran.

So did all the Other prophets before him.

The fact is that it wasn't him, it is really Allah's words.

Why would he allow the Tenach to be corrupted, then change up his word. I'm not going to lower God to my standards, but Like I said he makes promises, rules in which he must abide by himself as he promised, He is not a God of lies.

I don't know the process of exactly how the New Testament of written, but the original, unaltered one was acceptable up until the arrival of Muhammd.

I wonder Why? Up until his time, so basically what you saying is, the New Testament, WAS ACCEPTABLE, MEANING PERFECT, UNTIL MOHAMMAD CAME? Why until his time, if it was acceptable prior to his calling?

According to the Quran, the original one predicted the coming of Muhammad so much so that a person would be able to identify him as if it were his own child.

Are you talking about when Moses spoke of a greater prophet to come after him? That was Iza, not Mohammad. Yeshua is the Prophet of Prophets Deuteronomy 18:18 "I will raise them a Prophet from among their brothers, like you (Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
and God Himself Isaiah 9:6 ,"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[2-0-NINE]

If The New Testament was Accepted until the Time of Mohammad what happened to Luke 24:50-53 "50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising blessing God. Amen.

Please my Muslim Brother and Sisters, can you explain how it was accepted until Mohammad's Time?

 

[Snowman187]

Stockton, could u please stop trying to be like heresy for a moment ?

Its getting annoying

thank you

 

[2-0-NINE]

Who is this man with One Post?! How am I being Like Heresy!!!??

 

[ParkBoyz]

^Hahahahahaha! Aye, dude did just come out of left field tho..

 

[2-0-NINE]

HAHA, I know. He seems suspect. I'm pretty sure he's someone that has been here, but made a screen name long time ago, incase someone annoyed him.

 

[MEXCOM]

Mohammad (saw) is the most beloved prophet to Allah (SWT) he is the seal of the prophets, sent to ALL of mankind, where the others were sent to their own tribes and people. Its the will of Allah (SWT), humans are not all equal. The prophets and messangers (pbut) are the best of mankind.

You have got to be kidding me. Judaism is arguably the first religion in which God was not a tribal God but a God of all peoples.

 

[MEXCOM]

ParkBoyz check this out if you got time let me know what you think after watching it http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1165240103054094632

JESUS CHRIST! This is why I prefer watching anything by the NOI. At least those mooks seem more interested in their religion.

 

[ParkBoyz]

JESUS CHRIST! This is why I prefer watching anything by the NOI. At least those mooks seem more interested in their religion.

What are you talking about bruh? I watched the whole 2 hrs and 51 minutes of that lecture, they were very into it, and this guy makes a whole lot of extremely logical points..

 

[2-0-NINE]

EVEN THIS MUSLIM SAYS THE QURAN DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE BIBLE, HE'S A MUSLIM

LINK

He states that if the Quran Contradicts the bible, then he contradicts himself.

Edit: Never mind he has turned from his faith, but either way he said it. I hate how Ahmed Deedat, LIKE HERESY SAID, has bastardized hebrew. Talking about the H's and the non existence of J. SMH

It's also stupid how he mentions that in revelation when men will say Jesus, Jesus(referring to those going to hell) he will not look at them because he does not know the name Jesus. HE STILL DIDN'T ADDRESS THE FACT YESHUA IS JUDGE IS THE LAST DAYS! I'm still watching it but also taking notes of what he says. Especially about Peter, how The Hebrew word for Rock, should not be equal to the word in Greek. WOW more shaking of the head.

Now he talks about the name conversions of Hebrew to Greek. DOES THIS MAN NOT KNOW THE COVENANT WAS GIVEN TO THE GENTILES(NON-JEWS) TO MAKE THEM JEALOUS!!! He doesn't understand the concepts of Christianity, rather he's trying to refute the Christian teachings be making a scewed version of the original definition, yet he can't refute the basis of our religion. You can say you cannot Change Hebrew to Greek, but during that period of time, WHAT DID THE JEWS WRITE IN? GREEK!