Muslims, chill...
- Thread starter I. Cold
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My "most are Arabs" statement was mindless and incorrect. But the Muslims who matter are in the Middle East. Tamill Tigers are not rushing countries all over the world and engaging in suicide bombings. Indonesian and Singaporean Muslims, also, lack the "Middle Eastern" character that has lent itself to a different form of proselyzation.
Who was it, the last British governor of India that made the comment about the Muslim world, that they would rather follow a leader with a fiery shout and a sword than a reconstruction or education plan? Honor and piety in the Middle East has always been first and foremost, and in this atmosphere extremism grows. We all remember the kamikaze pilots of WWII...they came from a fiercely dogmatic and religious honor-based society.
There have been more wars in the Middle East than in any other place in the world. Someone once called conflict there "the imminent bubbling and frothing occuring when races, religions, and ideas of all lands are brought into contact at a focal point".
The Tamill Tigers, the KKK, the IRA, and other such groups have absolutely no geopolitical clout when compared to Al-Qaeda, Hizbollah, and the many governments and Muslim charities who endorse and support them.
KKK racism has little or no power in the grand scheme of things; A nuclear Pakistan controlled by right-wing Muslims could change the face of the earth. Perspective does very much matter in this case.
Trying to reduce the issue of extremism to imperialism, oil, and socioeconomic conditions is meaningless; money means little to nothing to nearly all extremists. Osama bin Laden, for example, is or was quite wealthy. Many of the imams and clerics who grandstand against the US are wealthy as well.
We have a 50 million dollar bounty on Usama bin Ladens head and no one is saying shit. Islam is very much anti-materialist and in favor of modesty to the point where elite Muslims with lots of money are often viewed as hedonist, extravagant, and at the very least viewed with a little suspicion, especially by the lower and Middle classes. The cavelike, modest living of bin Laden while on the run from the US was hailed by the Muslim masses as living in the ways of the Prophet.
That is why, in my opinion, class, oppression, and US Imperialism are not reliable or salient factors in the equation. They may help keep kurupt regimes in power, but one would and should rightly fear a fully and truly democratic Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, or Jordan. These people would rightly start full-on war with Israel, the US, or even other Middle Eastern countries. Regional conflicts are quite common.
In the cases of most Middle Eastern countries, the Saddam Husseins, the Moammar Qadafis, and the Pervef Musharrafs are actually more liberal than the people they govern. And for example in Iraq many leaders are speaking out against takfiris, but only because Iraqi stability is needed, and not in opposition simply to the violence.
Islam in the modern interpretation is great and nice; honor, modesty, piety, and so on. But it legitimizes and supports violence more than any other major religion. The proof is right in the Quran. It may have been interpreted a certain way or spelled out this or such an such way in the hadiths but, at core, violence is more permissible.
Islam did not change an entire region when it appeared. Just as any religion would, it adopted the beliefs and ideals of the region and environment from whence it came, and has been a strong support and proponent of the core values that were very much ingrained in the region before it came on the scene. Christianity became more "intellectual" to please the Roman-Greco world, (Think the first few verses of John) and Islam became adapted to suit the preconceptions and ideals of the region.
The talk of peace and good-heartedness from American Muslims, Muslims protected from the mutawas in Australia or the UK, etc. are all great and peachy soundbites offered up as proof of the benevolent nature of the religion.
But that benevolent nature has always been a fleeting ideal, just as "Christians" have never practiced Christianity. Whole tribes and peoples were exterminated in the name of Christ. Hundreds of millions died in the name of "Communism". A whole region is ready to go to war with Israel and the US, amass nukes, etc. in the name of "Islam".
Who was it, the last British governor of India that made the comment about the Muslim world, that they would rather follow a leader with a fiery shout and a sword than a reconstruction or education plan? Honor and piety in the Middle East has always been first and foremost, and in this atmosphere extremism grows. We all remember the kamikaze pilots of WWII...they came from a fiercely dogmatic and religious honor-based society.
There have been more wars in the Middle East than in any other place in the world. Someone once called conflict there "the imminent bubbling and frothing occuring when races, religions, and ideas of all lands are brought into contact at a focal point".
The Tamill Tigers, the KKK, the IRA, and other such groups have absolutely no geopolitical clout when compared to Al-Qaeda, Hizbollah, and the many governments and Muslim charities who endorse and support them.
KKK racism has little or no power in the grand scheme of things; A nuclear Pakistan controlled by right-wing Muslims could change the face of the earth. Perspective does very much matter in this case.
Trying to reduce the issue of extremism to imperialism, oil, and socioeconomic conditions is meaningless; money means little to nothing to nearly all extremists. Osama bin Laden, for example, is or was quite wealthy. Many of the imams and clerics who grandstand against the US are wealthy as well.
We have a 50 million dollar bounty on Usama bin Ladens head and no one is saying shit. Islam is very much anti-materialist and in favor of modesty to the point where elite Muslims with lots of money are often viewed as hedonist, extravagant, and at the very least viewed with a little suspicion, especially by the lower and Middle classes. The cavelike, modest living of bin Laden while on the run from the US was hailed by the Muslim masses as living in the ways of the Prophet.
That is why, in my opinion, class, oppression, and US Imperialism are not reliable or salient factors in the equation. They may help keep kurupt regimes in power, but one would and should rightly fear a fully and truly democratic Saudia Arabia, Afghanistan, or Jordan. These people would rightly start full-on war with Israel, the US, or even other Middle Eastern countries. Regional conflicts are quite common.
In the cases of most Middle Eastern countries, the Saddam Husseins, the Moammar Qadafis, and the Pervef Musharrafs are actually more liberal than the people they govern. And for example in Iraq many leaders are speaking out against takfiris, but only because Iraqi stability is needed, and not in opposition simply to the violence.
Islam in the modern interpretation is great and nice; honor, modesty, piety, and so on. But it legitimizes and supports violence more than any other major religion. The proof is right in the Quran. It may have been interpreted a certain way or spelled out this or such an such way in the hadiths but, at core, violence is more permissible.
Islam did not change an entire region when it appeared. Just as any religion would, it adopted the beliefs and ideals of the region and environment from whence it came, and has been a strong support and proponent of the core values that were very much ingrained in the region before it came on the scene. Christianity became more "intellectual" to please the Roman-Greco world, (Think the first few verses of John) and Islam became adapted to suit the preconceptions and ideals of the region.
The talk of peace and good-heartedness from American Muslims, Muslims protected from the mutawas in Australia or the UK, etc. are all great and peachy soundbites offered up as proof of the benevolent nature of the religion.
But that benevolent nature has always been a fleeting ideal, just as "Christians" have never practiced Christianity. Whole tribes and peoples were exterminated in the name of Christ. Hundreds of millions died in the name of "Communism". A whole region is ready to go to war with Israel and the US, amass nukes, etc. in the name of "Islam".
Yet again, you pecieve Islam as being a religion that legitimzes and supports violence, but what do YOU really know about it?
Obviously the whole trend these days is to percieve Islam as that...a religion that supports extremisim ans violence..but do you really think that followers of the faith really have that on their mind?
We are obviously taking a bad wrap these days...everybody wants to talk down about is because, it really is the thing to do..
It really is funny, because, when you talk about Islam, people seem to generalize and talk about it as they know what is..when in reality they are talkin out of their asses..
People who talk about Islam being a violent religion and people who believe Islam spreads nothing but negativity REALLY DONT KNOW SHIT
Brush up on your Christianty, your Judaism, your whatever-you-believe-in..bring up whatever you can because ALL of you are stating something YOU THINK rather than you KNOW..
All I'm asking for is some respect for the faith...
Obviously the whole trend these days is to percieve Islam as that...a religion that supports extremisim ans violence..but do you really think that followers of the faith really have that on their mind?
We are obviously taking a bad wrap these days...everybody wants to talk down about is because, it really is the thing to do..
It really is funny, because, when you talk about Islam, people seem to generalize and talk about it as they know what is..when in reality they are talkin out of their asses..
People who talk about Islam being a violent religion and people who believe Islam spreads nothing but negativity REALLY DONT KNOW SHIT
Brush up on your Christianty, your Judaism, your whatever-you-believe-in..bring up whatever you can because ALL of you are stating something YOU THINK rather than you KNOW..
All I'm asking for is some respect for the faith...
The verses are right in the Quran, specifically those in which defensive jihad is justified. The perception of Al-Qaeda, for example, that it is fighting a defensive war against US imperialism is in line with the Quran if, in fact, it is a war to defend the ummah.
Of course not all followers of Islam support violence or extremism. To say they do would be complete idiocy. What I do say is that the cultural components of bedouinism that believe in upholding family and personal honor and resolving disputes in a tit-for-tat sort of way were very much translated into Islam.
Judaeism does have much of the same, but even in the strict Judaeic tradition violence is to be avoided. Islam is the *only* major Abrahamic religion that stipulates when, where, and how to be violent if necessary.
Whether that is the belief of modern Muslims or whether they legitimize that mandate is the debate at hand.
And as a side-note, this is not some theory I invented while goggling Islam. I have spent some time, at least, brushing up on the faith and many of the more well-known commentators and hadiths...though the last time I was engaged in studying was at least a year ago.
Of course not all followers of Islam support violence or extremism. To say they do would be complete idiocy. What I do say is that the cultural components of bedouinism that believe in upholding family and personal honor and resolving disputes in a tit-for-tat sort of way were very much translated into Islam.
Judaeism does have much of the same, but even in the strict Judaeic tradition violence is to be avoided. Islam is the *only* major Abrahamic religion that stipulates when, where, and how to be violent if necessary.
Whether that is the belief of modern Muslims or whether they legitimize that mandate is the debate at hand.
And as a side-note, this is not some theory I invented while goggling Islam. I have spent some time, at least, brushing up on the faith and many of the more well-known commentators and hadiths...though the last time I was engaged in studying was at least a year ago.
doesnt islam support violence against nonbelievers?
i mean i know according to sunnis, an islamic holy war = to kill only the enemy soldier, and not women n children n men
but doesnt it forbid making friends with nonbelievers? which is why u gotta watch what u say when u are around them, such as "hey buddy"?
would that be blasphemous?
dont u see how controlling islam seems to be?
is that why ppl convert to islam and then never leave it, since you gotta pay careful attention to everything u say, and do.
what about becomming spiritual?
howcome the muslim saints, that basically practiced strong FAITH, and MIND OVER MATTER (by controlling their temptations and doing whats good), got their "supernatural" power from God, but yet the yogi that does the same exact thing, is dealing with a demon??
to me organized religion looks more like a "program" rather than somethin that SHOULD be generalized among humanity as a whole, such as be kind, dont do bad, n so on.
also tell me this, doesnt islam say the sun revolves around the earth?
and that rain comes from the heaven?
i mean i know where the rain comes from and so do you
so why not even think of opposing islam?
because ISLAM forbids you from doing that;its blasphemy.
so you are gonna believe 100% of everything you learn from islam, and "believe" it can happen, just like a guy posted "even tho you dont got a clue how the fuck santa is gonna go around all the houses in one night,but u still BELIEVE HE HAS A WAY TO DO IT BECAUSE YOU ARE TOLD ITS 100% TRUE"
so how are u gonna believe the rain comes from Heaven?
its invisible until it reaches the clouds?
not gonna happen
ps. im not attacking islam im just pointing out the things i was havin trouble with
i mean i know according to sunnis, an islamic holy war = to kill only the enemy soldier, and not women n children n men
but doesnt it forbid making friends with nonbelievers? which is why u gotta watch what u say when u are around them, such as "hey buddy"?
would that be blasphemous?
dont u see how controlling islam seems to be?
is that why ppl convert to islam and then never leave it, since you gotta pay careful attention to everything u say, and do.
what about becomming spiritual?
howcome the muslim saints, that basically practiced strong FAITH, and MIND OVER MATTER (by controlling their temptations and doing whats good), got their "supernatural" power from God, but yet the yogi that does the same exact thing, is dealing with a demon??
to me organized religion looks more like a "program" rather than somethin that SHOULD be generalized among humanity as a whole, such as be kind, dont do bad, n so on.
also tell me this, doesnt islam say the sun revolves around the earth?
and that rain comes from the heaven?
i mean i know where the rain comes from and so do you
so why not even think of opposing islam?
because ISLAM forbids you from doing that;its blasphemy.
so you are gonna believe 100% of everything you learn from islam, and "believe" it can happen, just like a guy posted "even tho you dont got a clue how the fuck santa is gonna go around all the houses in one night,but u still BELIEVE HE HAS A WAY TO DO IT BECAUSE YOU ARE TOLD ITS 100% TRUE"
so how are u gonna believe the rain comes from Heaven?
its invisible until it reaches the clouds?
not gonna happen
ps. im not attacking islam im just pointing out the things i was havin trouble with
I would reply to your post and rip it to shreds but you posted this.
In your last post You go on this long rant about islam talking about hadiths, explaining the Quran etc... When you thought the majority of muslims where arab. How are you going to explain calculus when you dont even know how to add?
and Hemp i wish i had 15 minutes to reply to you, but im off to friday prayers. Ill have a reply posted up by later tonight.
In your last post You go on this long rant about islam talking about hadiths, explaining the Quran etc... When you thought the majority of muslims where arab. How are you going to explain calculus when you dont even know how to add?
and Hemp i wish i had 15 minutes to reply to you, but im off to friday prayers. Ill have a reply posted up by later tonight.
You tell me.
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors." Surat Al-Baqrah verse 190
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers." Surat Al-Mutahinah verse 8
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).” Surat Al-Anfal verse 61
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds.” Surat Al-Mai-idah verse 28
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. Surat Al-Baqqarah verse 193
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). Surat Al-Hijr verse 23
I think that’s enough.
It says not to take them as Guardians or protectors.
Controlling? No one is making you do things, it is all in your will. Islam is the way of life.
There are a few who do leave islam, but overall im not understanding your question.
This statement is some of the most wacked out talk I have ever heard. First there is no such thing as saints in Islam. Second, Scholars, and sheikhs (not royalty like people know about the word sheikh, but one who is very learned in religion.) are humans just like us and they fight temptations just like us, they have the same ability in controlling them as we do controlling our temptations, the only thing they posses is a higher amount of knowledge than us (which we could acquire) which is a good thing and could be a bad thing depending on the person. Infact some of the first people in hell will be the scholars and sheikhs etc… who knew the truth and preached it yet they did not follow it themselves. The only people who controlled their temptations and demons within are the prophets and messangers in revealing the message. No one is infallible not even the prophets except in revealing the message.
No it doesn’t. You might be talking about this verse
"He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? Surat Az-Zumar verse 5
Theres two things that came from this verse one is that the earth is round, there is a round globe at Al-Azhar university that dates back to the 998 A.D or something. The word yukawir Is translated into overlap. You live in Michigan ask an arab what yukawir means, or you can believe me when I say to make into a ball. The second thing is that the moon and the sun follow a course for a time appointed. We all know that the moon revolves around the earth but did you know that the sun has its own orbit? This is another miracle from the Quran that was not known until a few decades ago.
If you have the verse please post it because im 99% sure it uses the word ‘Sam’ma’ which is sky. But in translations they use the word heavens. Heavens in the translations does not mean paradise. Ask any arab whether it be Christian, jew or muslim and they’ll tell you “sam’ma” means sky and nothing else.
Please ask an arab because im sure you know some personally what the word sam’ma means and it should be clear from there. Heavean or paradise in arabis is called “Jannah”
Why oppose the truth, your only going to hurt yourself. But from your claims your only uneducated on this subject.
The Quran has never been proven wrong, so ofcourse I will always believe in it.
Ignorance, but its not your fault. Like I said ask anyone what the word Sam’ma means.
I didn’t take what you said as an attack, its all good with me. Its just that you misunderstood.
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors." Surat Al-Baqrah verse 190
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers." Surat Al-Mutahinah verse 8
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).” Surat Al-Anfal verse 61
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds.” Surat Al-Mai-idah verse 28
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. Surat Al-Baqqarah verse 193
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). Surat Al-Hijr verse 23
I think that’s enough.
It says not to take them as Guardians or protectors.
Controlling? No one is making you do things, it is all in your will. Islam is the way of life.
There are a few who do leave islam, but overall im not understanding your question.
This statement is some of the most wacked out talk I have ever heard. First there is no such thing as saints in Islam. Second, Scholars, and sheikhs (not royalty like people know about the word sheikh, but one who is very learned in religion.) are humans just like us and they fight temptations just like us, they have the same ability in controlling them as we do controlling our temptations, the only thing they posses is a higher amount of knowledge than us (which we could acquire) which is a good thing and could be a bad thing depending on the person. Infact some of the first people in hell will be the scholars and sheikhs etc… who knew the truth and preached it yet they did not follow it themselves. The only people who controlled their temptations and demons within are the prophets and messangers in revealing the message. No one is infallible not even the prophets except in revealing the message.
No it doesn’t. You might be talking about this verse
"He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? Surat Az-Zumar verse 5
Theres two things that came from this verse one is that the earth is round, there is a round globe at Al-Azhar university that dates back to the 998 A.D or something. The word yukawir Is translated into overlap. You live in Michigan ask an arab what yukawir means, or you can believe me when I say to make into a ball. The second thing is that the moon and the sun follow a course for a time appointed. We all know that the moon revolves around the earth but did you know that the sun has its own orbit? This is another miracle from the Quran that was not known until a few decades ago.
If you have the verse please post it because im 99% sure it uses the word ‘Sam’ma’ which is sky. But in translations they use the word heavens. Heavens in the translations does not mean paradise. Ask any arab whether it be Christian, jew or muslim and they’ll tell you “sam’ma” means sky and nothing else.
Please ask an arab because im sure you know some personally what the word sam’ma means and it should be clear from there. Heavean or paradise in arabis is called “Jannah”
Why oppose the truth, your only going to hurt yourself. But from your claims your only uneducated on this subject.
The Quran has never been proven wrong, so ofcourse I will always believe in it.
Ignorance, but its not your fault. Like I said ask anyone what the word Sam’ma means.
I didn’t take what you said as an attack, its all good with me. Its just that you misunderstood.
^^
to start out let me tell u i know arabic
and everything i posted up here is exactly what sheikhs have told me
and yes i was told u CANT call the non-believers FRIEND, (which explains why islam has been so isolated from the western and non islamic countries)
and im 100% sure i was told that the rain comes from heaven, and the shiekh said JANNAH and i asked him like "it comes from the clouds guy" n he quickly said
"nope comes from jannah"
and then about the sun revolving around the earth.
oh man i have asked sheikhs about that so many times n they all said "the sun revolves around the earth" n would say "but dude, they got all kinds of technologies that can EASILY prove the earth revolves around the sun"
and they would say "the scientists are lying"
thats one thing ive always got from them when i would bring science up and how the new findings prove islam to be wrong n they would say that the person who brought forth the info is lying.
for how long do they expect me to believe that?
plus it completely logical for them to say the sun revolves around the earth since THEY HAD NO SCIENCE BACK THEN to find out the earth is revolving.
same as mother fuckers thinking the earth is flat,
but now that we got the technology to see then we can find out whos right n whos wrong.
o yeah and about the earth being flat, that reminds me.
a sheikh told me that the earth is egg shaped, but sideways.
and he said that we arent stuck on earth because there somethin called gravity, but we are on earth beause we are litteraly on top of earth.
he thinks all the countries are spread on top of earth and if u go on the bottom then ull fall. *sigh*
and yes my friend there is such a thing as a muslim saint.
ever heard of a walee?
u never heard of a walee who has ppl over his house 24/7 learnin islam from him.
and all those ppl got stories to tell bout a time they did so n so n somethin happened?
o i hear those all the time, yet when i ask a shiekh like what if the guy wasnt muslim and was simply meditating and became able to levitate? "oh hes working with a demon"
i mean get real
also
u said "islams not controlling, its a way of life"
ok tell me this then. if you were born into christianity, and christianity warned about the demon trying to get you to blaspheme, and FORBID even challenging ANYTHING you learn about it, and was as strict as islam is now, would u really find islam?
or would u be CAUGHT UP in chrisitan beliefs?
im tellin it to you like it is man.
once you are muslim, theres no way u can even think of leaving islam without becomming a blasphemer.
therefor u will remain practicing islam, and you will leave the thought of leaving it out of your head TOTALLY.
and not only that, you will look back at islam and say "oh i see so its the demon thats making think of opposing ANYTHING that islam says to me and thats blasphemy, therefor I WILL WORK HARDER TO REMAIN A MUSLIM AND REJECT ANY THOUGHT THATS AGAINST ISLAM"
you see the loop now?
also, now that we brought this up i remember reading you once said something like "i respect chrisitianity, learnin bout it" n so n so.
dont you know you basically showed love to blasphemy?
didnt you know islam forbids that and says its blasphemy to do so?
welcome to islam my friend.
maybe if it wasnt changed around by the people, it would sound more real.
ps. i didnt read the quranic verses because i have never read all of the quran, and i know for a fact that there are many WRONG interepretations.
kind of like the wahabies sayin "3alal arsh istawa" = God SITS on his throne
and i hope u didnt get the interepretations from the Saudi government site :dead:
to start out let me tell u i know arabic
and everything i posted up here is exactly what sheikhs have told me
and yes i was told u CANT call the non-believers FRIEND, (which explains why islam has been so isolated from the western and non islamic countries)
and im 100% sure i was told that the rain comes from heaven, and the shiekh said JANNAH and i asked him like "it comes from the clouds guy" n he quickly said
"nope comes from jannah"
and then about the sun revolving around the earth.
oh man i have asked sheikhs about that so many times n they all said "the sun revolves around the earth" n would say "but dude, they got all kinds of technologies that can EASILY prove the earth revolves around the sun"
and they would say "the scientists are lying"
thats one thing ive always got from them when i would bring science up and how the new findings prove islam to be wrong n they would say that the person who brought forth the info is lying.
for how long do they expect me to believe that?
plus it completely logical for them to say the sun revolves around the earth since THEY HAD NO SCIENCE BACK THEN to find out the earth is revolving.
same as mother fuckers thinking the earth is flat,
but now that we got the technology to see then we can find out whos right n whos wrong.
o yeah and about the earth being flat, that reminds me.
a sheikh told me that the earth is egg shaped, but sideways.
and he said that we arent stuck on earth because there somethin called gravity, but we are on earth beause we are litteraly on top of earth.
he thinks all the countries are spread on top of earth and if u go on the bottom then ull fall. *sigh*
and yes my friend there is such a thing as a muslim saint.
ever heard of a walee?
u never heard of a walee who has ppl over his house 24/7 learnin islam from him.
and all those ppl got stories to tell bout a time they did so n so n somethin happened?
o i hear those all the time, yet when i ask a shiekh like what if the guy wasnt muslim and was simply meditating and became able to levitate? "oh hes working with a demon"
i mean get real
also
u said "islams not controlling, its a way of life"
ok tell me this then. if you were born into christianity, and christianity warned about the demon trying to get you to blaspheme, and FORBID even challenging ANYTHING you learn about it, and was as strict as islam is now, would u really find islam?
or would u be CAUGHT UP in chrisitan beliefs?
im tellin it to you like it is man.
once you are muslim, theres no way u can even think of leaving islam without becomming a blasphemer.
therefor u will remain practicing islam, and you will leave the thought of leaving it out of your head TOTALLY.
and not only that, you will look back at islam and say "oh i see so its the demon thats making think of opposing ANYTHING that islam says to me and thats blasphemy, therefor I WILL WORK HARDER TO REMAIN A MUSLIM AND REJECT ANY THOUGHT THATS AGAINST ISLAM"
you see the loop now?
also, now that we brought this up i remember reading you once said something like "i respect chrisitianity, learnin bout it" n so n so.
dont you know you basically showed love to blasphemy?
didnt you know islam forbids that and says its blasphemy to do so?
welcome to islam my friend.
maybe if it wasnt changed around by the people, it would sound more real.
ps. i didnt read the quranic verses because i have never read all of the quran, and i know for a fact that there are many WRONG interepretations.
kind of like the wahabies sayin "3alal arsh istawa" = God SITS on his throne
and i hope u didnt get the interepretations from the Saudi government site :dead:
like I said give me the surah and verse so I can read it and the tafsir because you just stated something that could have been made up. So is he a sheikh or an imam? I don’t care what a sheikh tells me until he comes with PROOF.
Heres my PROOF
“Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it”. Surat An-Nur verse 43
That means NOTHING you are asking a sheikh about science, he knows religion not science. Next time ask him where he got this belief from, ask him to SHOW YOU from the Quran. I ask you to show me from the Quran. Its NOT there.
Show me these “new findings”, they do not exist and if there is articles out there its from anti-islamic sites that attack islam, but you can even post those because there are pro-islamic sites that refute all claims without a shadow of doubt.
Are you muslim? If not heres a verse
“To you be your way of life (religion), and to me my way of life (religion) Surat Al-Kafirun verse 6
Its great that you found a sheikh that says the sun revolves around the earth, now go ask that sheikh to give you the verses from the Quran. A sheikhs words are a mans words, the Quran is Gods words.
And the Quran has not been proven wrong.
Yeah that’s pretty crazy, but again this makes no sense, this is a sheikhs view that doesn’t come from the Quran so please bring the verses from the Quran, and the earth not being a perfect round ball is another miracle in the Quran.
Saint
n 1: a person who has died and has been declared a saint by canonization
2: person of exceptional holiness [syn: holy man, holy
person, angel]
3: model of excellence or perfection of a kind; one having no
equal [syn: ideal, paragon, nonpareil, apotheosis,
nonesuch, nonsuch]
v 1: hold sacred [syn: enshrine]
2: in the Catholic church; declare (a dead person) to be a
saint; "After he was shown to have performed a miracle,
the priest was canonized" [syn: canonize]
Believing in any of those definitions is Kufir. So again there are no saints in Islam.
Huh? People do follow and live with scholars to LEARN Islamic knowledge. They are called scholars and not saints you got things majorly twisted. That’s how people learn islam, from knowledgable people who use Quran and Sunnah and not their beliefs.
no my friend you get real with it. Again if you don’t believe in every person having a demon in them, or people actually working with the jinn then you simply don’t, to you your way of life and to me mine. Is someone forcing you to believe in Islam?
Once a person understands true islam it would be illogical to believe in anything else. You have known that you are a male ever since you can remember if someone came to you and started telling you you are a female, are you going to start believing him? Its hard to not believe once you know the truth.
WHY would I even think about leaving islam, its easy to get someone to the truth if he hasn’t been exposed to it. But its hard to deviate someone from the truth once someone knows it.
People go through phases of weak faith, the devil is very powerful, people succumb but most don’t. AlhamdiAllah if If I die, I die a believer, InshAllah.
Ofcourse I respect Christianity it’s a religion from God that is mentioned in the Quran. And im not reading the bible and learning about Christianity to find myself haha, im doing it for the cause of da’wa learn about it. So I can hold conversations with people of the Christian faith. Most Scholars of Islam study the bible and there is nothing wrong with it.
AlhamdilAllah it feels good.
Keep it strictly Quran and some Sunnah. Quran DEFINITLEY untampered with.
God does have a throne, and this is true but no the way we observe a throne to be. And again there is no such thing as a Wahabi. If we are talking about people like Al-Qaeda they are called the Kharijun and even the prophet Mohammad s.a.w warned us about them that they will be extremist and FAR away from the true islam.
Now my question to you is are you someone who posts under another name on the siccness? pm me if you wanna let me know
Heres my PROOF
“Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it”. Surat An-Nur verse 43
That means NOTHING you are asking a sheikh about science, he knows religion not science. Next time ask him where he got this belief from, ask him to SHOW YOU from the Quran. I ask you to show me from the Quran. Its NOT there.
Show me these “new findings”, they do not exist and if there is articles out there its from anti-islamic sites that attack islam, but you can even post those because there are pro-islamic sites that refute all claims without a shadow of doubt.
Are you muslim? If not heres a verse
“To you be your way of life (religion), and to me my way of life (religion) Surat Al-Kafirun verse 6
Its great that you found a sheikh that says the sun revolves around the earth, now go ask that sheikh to give you the verses from the Quran. A sheikhs words are a mans words, the Quran is Gods words.
And the Quran has not been proven wrong.
Yeah that’s pretty crazy, but again this makes no sense, this is a sheikhs view that doesn’t come from the Quran so please bring the verses from the Quran, and the earth not being a perfect round ball is another miracle in the Quran.
Saint
n 1: a person who has died and has been declared a saint by canonization
2: person of exceptional holiness [syn: holy man, holy
person, angel]
3: model of excellence or perfection of a kind; one having no
equal [syn: ideal, paragon, nonpareil, apotheosis,
nonesuch, nonsuch]
v 1: hold sacred [syn: enshrine]
2: in the Catholic church; declare (a dead person) to be a
saint; "After he was shown to have performed a miracle,
the priest was canonized" [syn: canonize]
Believing in any of those definitions is Kufir. So again there are no saints in Islam.
Huh? People do follow and live with scholars to LEARN Islamic knowledge. They are called scholars and not saints you got things majorly twisted. That’s how people learn islam, from knowledgable people who use Quran and Sunnah and not their beliefs.
no my friend you get real with it. Again if you don’t believe in every person having a demon in them, or people actually working with the jinn then you simply don’t, to you your way of life and to me mine. Is someone forcing you to believe in Islam?
Once a person understands true islam it would be illogical to believe in anything else. You have known that you are a male ever since you can remember if someone came to you and started telling you you are a female, are you going to start believing him? Its hard to not believe once you know the truth.
WHY would I even think about leaving islam, its easy to get someone to the truth if he hasn’t been exposed to it. But its hard to deviate someone from the truth once someone knows it.
People go through phases of weak faith, the devil is very powerful, people succumb but most don’t. AlhamdiAllah if If I die, I die a believer, InshAllah.
Ofcourse I respect Christianity it’s a religion from God that is mentioned in the Quran. And im not reading the bible and learning about Christianity to find myself haha, im doing it for the cause of da’wa learn about it. So I can hold conversations with people of the Christian faith. Most Scholars of Islam study the bible and there is nothing wrong with it.
AlhamdilAllah it feels good.
Keep it strictly Quran and some Sunnah. Quran DEFINITLEY untampered with.
God does have a throne, and this is true but no the way we observe a throne to be. And again there is no such thing as a Wahabi. If we are talking about people like Al-Qaeda they are called the Kharijun and even the prophet Mohammad s.a.w warned us about them that they will be extremist and FAR away from the true islam.
Now my question to you is are you someone who posts under another name on the siccness? pm me if you wanna let me know
ok i will reply to your whole post in a day or two because i asked the shiekh who can also be an imam (right?), and he said that he never said the sun revolves around the earth, but that the earth is still and doesnt have an axis, but the sun has an axis
the other one about the rain he said that the rain comes from below the arsh, and from the first sky, and then the angels push the clouds by some force towards a certain direction, and thats where the rain comes from.
and so he said he will give me the quranic verses once he makes sure what they are, so in a day or so ill reply to you full post with them.
but about the walees,
you never had a walee basically read your whole family from a whole different country ? cuz i had.
this guy was talkin about how my little sister needs to eat, asked if my dads car still leaks,n so on
so we should believe that he recieved that "remote" viewing from God, yet the meditator who can remote view, is getting his visions from a demon?
the other one about the rain he said that the rain comes from below the arsh, and from the first sky, and then the angels push the clouds by some force towards a certain direction, and thats where the rain comes from.
and so he said he will give me the quranic verses once he makes sure what they are, so in a day or so ill reply to you full post with them.
but about the walees,
you never had a walee basically read your whole family from a whole different country ? cuz i had.
this guy was talkin about how my little sister needs to eat, asked if my dads car still leaks,n so on
so we should believe that he recieved that "remote" viewing from God, yet the meditator who can remote view, is getting his visions from a demon?
now were talkin, ill be waiting for those verses. An Imam is one who leads prayers, one who leads prayer does not have to be the most knowledgable in the religion but only one who has the whole or most of the Quran memorized. A sheikh is basically a scholar one who mostly nowadays has studied in an islamic school such as Al-Azhar or in Medina, by the way just out of curiosity where did the brother study? and yes the sheikh of the masjid is always the imam. But some masjids dont have sheikhs.
Yeah this walee thing your are speaking about is some wacked out stuff man. This is crazy stuff, no one can see the future unless it is revelaed to him by God and that stopped wit the last messenger s.a.w. Are these dudes you are talking to sufis? Forget what other people do, real islam is in the Quran and sunnah.
Yeah this walee thing your are speaking about is some wacked out stuff man. This is crazy stuff, no one can see the future unless it is revelaed to him by God and that stopped wit the last messenger s.a.w. Are these dudes you are talking to sufis? Forget what other people do, real islam is in the Quran and sunnah.
