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HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
so when u experience something you dont observe?
you just DO ?
Again, this depends on your definition of observe. If you are being kicked in teh face are you observing this or experiencing it? Are you observing the pain when you think "DAMN THIS SHIT HURTS!" or are you experiencing the pain when you say "DAMN THAT SHIT HURTS!"

your right tho i should have said "based on experience" but either way, once you experience something, you learn from what you observed.
Who says you learn from what you observe or experience? What is learned is left to the individual, and I destroyed this position earlier. Not all people learn from what they experience or observe. Listen, if a crackhead spends all her money on blow where is the learning? Yes, she has learned that smoking crack feels good, but has she learned that smoking crack destroys her body and that she needs food? If so why is she STILL on crack?

yes, but like you said, IF you tell me.
so that goes back to the liquor shop owners, are they telling the people that ISLAM is the way or are they just minding their own business selling alcohol?
Listen, you are begining to sound like a fool. You want answers, but the next thing you'll be doing is crying about how you can't express yourself. If I believe something is WRONG I have NO BUSINESS subjecting YOU to that SAME wrong. Do you understand this? It is a very SIMPLE concept that doesn't require much thought. Please, if you do not understand the definition of hypocrisy that has been provided, give us a reason to defer to and present a new one.

If they are just minding their business selling alcohol they are VIOLATING what they say is in teh quran. They are VIOLATING what they say is PERFECT and should be accepted by ALL. Now please grow up and stop sounding like a retard with the same questions flipped every which way. Also, STOP restricting my argument to ALCOHOL. I said these stores carry at LEAST two products, and I listed the products as tobacco, porn and pork products.

ok so you just lost me again.(or yourself)
You lost yourself. Everyone here with a working brain are able to comprehend what is being typed. If you can't comprehend stop wasting my time by asking questions. Go read a book on critical thinking or something.

so now you are saying i CAN be a sinner and not a hypocrite?
Explain to me why one CAN'T be sinner and not a hypocrite? Are you dumb? Seriously are you dumb? Did you not read the questions I asked in response to you smoking weed? IF YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF SIN, BUT YOU COMMIT A SINFUL ACT, THAT IS *NOT* HYPOCRISY. Stop licking the window and pay attention damn it. In fact just stop asking questions and READ what is posted instead of trying to sound smart or get your point across. Go back and READ my response to your weed smoking tangent.

so i guess it all goes back to if the alcohol seller tells the buyer that islam is the correct way and NOT if the seller is a muslim or not.
Why can't you comprehend what has been posted. Do you think the above quote makes ANY sense? If so explain it. If the seller BELIEVES (he can profess this to the world or keep it to himself) that islam is the CORRECT religion for all he is a HYPOCRITE if he sells alcohol, pork products, tobacco and porn to muslims and non-muslims alike, because these things go AGAINST islam. THE FACT THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE MUSLIMS IS *PROOF* THAT THEY BELIEVE ISLAM IS THE CORRECT RELIGION!!!

Before you say I am contradicting my previous statement read them both again and apply them to yourself. You must understand the difference between Sin and KNOWINGLY/LIVING in sin.

but stop me if im confused
The only thing I want to stop you from doing is not reading before you reply.

After further looking into the word "hypocrisy" and reading Heresy and Miggidy's posts, I want to change my stance towards Muslim liquor store owners. Instead of replying to you point by point, I'm going to just make it all in one. Alcohol is completely forbidden in Islam in every possible way. In fact, it is forbidden in 8 ways: buying, selling, consuming, producing, financing, touching, transporting, (I forgot the 8th way). It is a major sin to sell it to others. Forget trying to find excuses and loopholes for these people and trying to analyze the word "hypocrit" in depth. Wrong is wrong. There is no denying it. If a person had true iman and fear of Allah, he would not be selling alcohol and others products that are not permissible in Islam. Islam means submission, submission to the will of Allah. There are no ifs, and, or buts about it. A follower must have firm belief in everything that is written in the Quran and hadith. You can't pick and choose what you want to follow and what you don't want to follow. Therefore, a Muslim must believe that alcohol is completely haraam. If he believes that alcohol is haraam, but still sells it, he is committing a major sin and being a hypocrit to himself. Like I've said before, a person that does this does not have very strong iman. There's no point in trying to defend people that commit this major sin. And there's no point in trying to go so deep into analyzing a word. Thats not the real point of this discussion. It is what it is. But if I'm wrong, I'm not too proud to admit that I'm wrong.
I understand your position, and I already said one should NOT compromise ones faith for monetary gain. See you comprehend what I am saying, but hemp keeps going on and on about nothing.

One point that I do want to discuss, however, is how many Muslims actually own a liquor store. In an earlier post, you said "I do know 90% of Oaklands liquor stores are owned by muslims." Do you actually know this for sure or is it just something you are estimating based on observation?
The 90% number comes from Zachary Twist (a muslim and organizer for Muslims for a Healthy Community) and has yet to be disputed by anyone else. If you dispute this number please provide your alternate and tell us why this mans number was wrong.

I am not saying that you are incorrect and I would not be surprised if that number was accurate, but I am just curious. I happen to live in Marin County. I probably know about 300 Muslims that live here. I know of only 1 Arab (Muslim) that owns a liquor store here. I know other Indians (non-muslims) that own liquor stores, but only 1 Muslim. These Indians could easily be mistaken for Muslims by other people.
Yes, they could be mistaken for people who are IGNORANT, however I seriously doubt that a muslim would have a problem distinguishing non-muslims from muslims, and it was a muslim who provided that number in the first place.

So in Marin County, over 90% of liquor stores are not owned by Muslims.
So?

The point I'm trying to make is I don't think a significant percentage of the overall Muslim population in America owns liquor stores.
Why is this even an issue? How can you say you "don't think a significant percentage of the overall muslim popuplation" owns liquor stores when WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANY MUSLIMS ARE IN AMERICA?!?!?!?! You have NO grounds for your belief other than your PERSONAL knowledge of muslims that live close to you. Are you telling me you know EVERY liquor store owner in marin county?

Even in Oakland, there are thousands of Muslims. Most of those Muslims don't own liquor stores.
Again, what is your point? NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT MOST MUSLIMS OWN LIQUOR STORES. I AM ARGUING THAT MOST LIQUOR STORES IN OAKLAND ARE OWNED BY MUSLIMS! DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?

Most of those Muslims don't own liquor stores. I've been to the mosques in Oakland and know Muslims in Oakland. I've also been to liquor stores in Oakland owned by Muslims. Obviously, I don't have the exact figures, but I am very confident that Muslim liquor store owners make up a very small percentage of overall Muslims in both Oakland and America as a whole.
You are arguing a point that NO ONE ELSE but yourself finds remotely important. What is more important here:

A. Muslim liquor store owners make up a small percentage of the population

B. The majority of liquor stores are owned by muslims

If you choose A you are arguing a point that has no place in our discussion, because I NEVER said a large amount of the muslim population owned liquor stores.

If you choose B you wasted time and bandwidth by previously mentioning marin county and everything else pertaining to the muslim population.
 

Hemp

Sicc OG
Sep 5, 2005
1,248
2
0
@heresy

>>"Again, this depends on your definition of observe. If you are being kicked in teh face are you observing this or experiencing it? Are you observing the pain when you think "DAMN THIS SHIT HURTS!" or are you experiencing the pain when you say "DAMN THAT SHIT HURTS!""



<< when you are experiencing "DAMN THIS SHIT HURTS" do you observe "BEING KICKED IN THE FACE HURTS"?


but overall, you win
 

EDJ

Sicc OG
May 3, 2002
11,608
234
63
www.myspace.com
HEMP,
IT MEANS YOU DIDN'T PROVE YOUR POINT AND HAVE NO RIgHT TO SPEAK UP ON SHIT N-E LONgER AND WILL BE USED AgAINST YOU IF YOU EVA TRY TO SPEAK UP ON IT EVA AgAIN. AND IF YOU EVA TRY TO SPEAK UP ON N-E-THANg ELSE, YOUR LOgIC WILL BE IN QUESTION.