Manny Pacquiao vs Antonio Margarito Nov 13th, Cowboys Stadium
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Who said Margarito was shot? I scoff at that.
I throw the Mosley fight out of the window, because in addition to what was mentioned in the article, what I feel was more important, was that his head was in a completely different place in that fight after getting popped with the wraps beforehand.
He looked great in the Cotto fight before that, which is the reason why most of us thought he was going to crush Mosley. I did at least.
People are writing him off in this fight, but this was essentially the same fighter who many people thought had the best chance to beat Floyd, along with Cotto. Sure, he had a year off, but he isn't old by any means.
Good read there.
I throw the Mosley fight out of the window, because in addition to what was mentioned in the article, what I feel was more important, was that his head was in a completely different place in that fight after getting popped with the wraps beforehand.
He looked great in the Cotto fight before that, which is the reason why most of us thought he was going to crush Mosley. I did at least.
People are writing him off in this fight, but this was essentially the same fighter who many people thought had the best chance to beat Floyd, along with Cotto. Sure, he had a year off, but he isn't old by any means.
Good read there.
it was a shaky win against clottey that he might not have won if clottey didn't break both hands. He lost to P. Wills.
I was talking about after the first Cintron fight. He looked great in that fight then started on the downslope. I think Cintron was mentally beaten before they even fought the second time. He was scared to fight him again and just buckled like a belt.
He beat Cotto of course, his biggest win. A LOT of people think it was due to loaded hand wraps. A case can be made for both.
Either way, the only fight he looked like the same fighter as he was against Cintron in the first fight, was the fight he had against Golden Johnson
I was talking about after the first Cintron fight. He looked great in that fight then started on the downslope. I think Cintron was mentally beaten before they even fought the second time. He was scared to fight him again and just buckled like a belt.
He beat Cotto of course, his biggest win. A LOT of people think it was due to loaded hand wraps. A case can be made for both.
Either way, the only fight he looked like the same fighter as he was against Cintron in the first fight, was the fight he had against Golden Johnson
^^there is no proof clottey broke either hand and margarito is said to had hurt his hand(s) in that fight as well.
Clottey has always came up with excuses after a loss, so I take his injury with a grain of salt. Also, Margarito set the all time punch stat record in the history of boxing in that fight, throwing over 1600 punches. And that's what happens when Clottey steps int he ring most of the time because he doesn't throw punches and just sits there like a turtle.
With that said SPEED is something that margarito never had. Ever. What makes him good is his workrate, stamina, chin and relentless pressure. Typical mexican fighting style. You don't need speed with that kind of style.
I don't know why you said Cintron was scared to fight Margarito the second time when in fact it was Cintron's bright idea to rematch him, despite the fact his own trainer Emmanuel Stewart told him he's not quite ready yet. That was 100% Cintron thinking he could get revenge.
Margarito has looked exactly the same to me in every fight besides the Mosley fight, it's just styles make fights so he's going to do better or worse depending on the style but he's always the same guy, always coming forward, etc. Even against Mosley he's taking a beating and smiling the entire time, even when he got knocked down and out he's laughing about it lol. who does that?
Clottey has always came up with excuses after a loss, so I take his injury with a grain of salt. Also, Margarito set the all time punch stat record in the history of boxing in that fight, throwing over 1600 punches. And that's what happens when Clottey steps int he ring most of the time because he doesn't throw punches and just sits there like a turtle.
With that said SPEED is something that margarito never had. Ever. What makes him good is his workrate, stamina, chin and relentless pressure. Typical mexican fighting style. You don't need speed with that kind of style.
I don't know why you said Cintron was scared to fight Margarito the second time when in fact it was Cintron's bright idea to rematch him, despite the fact his own trainer Emmanuel Stewart told him he's not quite ready yet. That was 100% Cintron thinking he could get revenge.
Margarito has looked exactly the same to me in every fight besides the Mosley fight, it's just styles make fights so he's going to do better or worse depending on the style but he's always the same guy, always coming forward, etc. Even against Mosley he's taking a beating and smiling the entire time, even when he got knocked down and out he's laughing about it lol. who does that?
clottey virtually stopped throwing punches after the 5th round even thought he'd been active and accurate up to that point.
Margarito was never "fast" but he was definitely faster. Noticeably faster. He started fighting flat footed too which didn't help. He started doing that more after the first Cintron fight. His style was different. He would try and slip punches and counter in addition to volume punching.
Cintron did want the rematch but from the moment they got in the ring, he looked scared. You act like this has never happened before. If a fighter signs on the dotted line, they're asking to fight someone, doesn't mean they aren't or don't fight scared. You could see it all over his face and he never sat down on his punches. Cintron was never known as a boxer before this fight, he was a power puncher with a high ko percentage.
Margarito was never "fast" but he was definitely faster. Noticeably faster. He started fighting flat footed too which didn't help. He started doing that more after the first Cintron fight. His style was different. He would try and slip punches and counter in addition to volume punching.
Cintron did want the rematch but from the moment they got in the ring, he looked scared. You act like this has never happened before. If a fighter signs on the dotted line, they're asking to fight someone, doesn't mean they aren't or don't fight scared. You could see it all over his face and he never sat down on his punches. Cintron was never known as a boxer before this fight, he was a power puncher with a high ko percentage.
When does clottey not do this though? That's a typical clottey fight. Cover up and don't do a god damn thing
Hmm, well it certainly isn't noticable to me. I just watched the first Cintron fight not long ago and to me, he actually doesn't look as good as he does against Cotto.
That's cuz margarito is cintron's daddy
But what are you trying to say though? I mean margarito destroyed cintron, he did his job and he executed his game plan perfectly. Margarito looked like a god damn monster in that fight regardless if cintron was a pussy or not.
Hmm, well it certainly isn't noticable to me. I just watched the first Cintron fight not long ago and to me, he actually doesn't look as good as he does against Cotto.
That's cuz margarito is cintron's daddy
But what are you trying to say though? I mean margarito destroyed cintron, he did his job and he executed his game plan perfectly. Margarito looked like a god damn monster in that fight regardless if cintron was a pussy or not.
lol Margarito is his daddy, no question. I have that Cintron/Margs fight on dvd, I'll go watch it again. I don't remember his squaring up to his opponent as much in the past like against Lujan for example unless he had them against the ropes. I didn't think Margs looked "good" against Cotto at all but he was just relentless. I thought he looked kinda sloppy, even more so than Cintron 2 but he refused to be beaten.
Kinda off subject, do you think he used illegal wraps against Cotto 2-0? Just curious.
Clottey didn't do that in 3 of his other biggest fights against Judah and Corrales or really against Cotto either but he let him off the hook a lot.
Kinda off subject, do you think he used illegal wraps against Cotto 2-0? Just curious.
Clottey didn't do that in 3 of his other biggest fights against Judah and Corrales or really against Cotto either but he let him off the hook a lot.
I thought Margarito looked technically better in his later fights than he did against Cintron the first go around. He became a bit more technically sound. Fought more intelligently.
I thought he looked great against Cotto, I mean Cotto is the naturally better boxer, so Margarito had to do what he does best in order to beat a guy with superior boxing skills - that was to cut off the ring and bring it to cotto every second of every round. And he was obviously successful at it and chopped him down (putting in work in the early rounds going to the body, etc. and eventually wore cotto down). Margarito had the perfect gameplan and I thought he executed it to perfection against Cotto.
I honestly don't know man it's impossible to know for certain. He could have, maybe.
I do feel Margarito would have beatin cotto regardless though. Stylistically it's just a bad matchup for cotto.
Right but the key thing there is Corrales and Judah were way smaller than Clottey, so it's easy for Clottey to impose his size and strength over smaller men. Against guys that throw a lot of punches (Margarito & Pacquiao) and who he can't hurt, he covers up in that shell D and doesn't do shit. It's about styles, any guy with a style like that will beat Clottey the same way. Cotto is better than Judah (and Corrales) but doesn't have the same type of style which is why Clottey did good against Cotto, but even Cotto beat him because it came down to cotto throwing more punches, hence Clottey achilles heel - poor work-rate.
Every fight Clottey ever lost was because of work-rate. Margarito threw 1600 punches. Pacquiao threw 1200 punches. And Cotto out-worked him in final, most important rounds.
I thought he looked great against Cotto, I mean Cotto is the naturally better boxer, so Margarito had to do what he does best in order to beat a guy with superior boxing skills - that was to cut off the ring and bring it to cotto every second of every round. And he was obviously successful at it and chopped him down (putting in work in the early rounds going to the body, etc. and eventually wore cotto down). Margarito had the perfect gameplan and I thought he executed it to perfection against Cotto.
I honestly don't know man it's impossible to know for certain. He could have, maybe.
I do feel Margarito would have beatin cotto regardless though. Stylistically it's just a bad matchup for cotto.
Right but the key thing there is Corrales and Judah were way smaller than Clottey, so it's easy for Clottey to impose his size and strength over smaller men. Against guys that throw a lot of punches (Margarito & Pacquiao) and who he can't hurt, he covers up in that shell D and doesn't do shit. It's about styles, any guy with a style like that will beat Clottey the same way. Cotto is better than Judah (and Corrales) but doesn't have the same type of style which is why Clottey did good against Cotto, but even Cotto beat him because it came down to cotto throwing more punches, hence Clottey achilles heel - poor work-rate.
Every fight Clottey ever lost was because of work-rate. Margarito threw 1600 punches. Pacquiao threw 1200 punches. And Cotto out-worked him in final, most important rounds.
I don't know if this makes sense, but margs used to swing harder with his punches. They seemed to have a lot more velocity and power with them and maybe that's why they seemed faster to me too. He wasn't squared up as much and they came from the shoulder. He did this again against Golden Johnson and knocked him out quick. Against Cintron 2, Paul Williams, Cotto and Mosley, he fought with the same style. Running downhill and throwing arm punches while being sqaured up.
I don't know if you can call it fighting more intelligently when you're repeatedly getting blasted in the face and walking through punches can you? He always cut the ring off well and threw volume punches. I have to disagree with you there.
I used to be a huge margarito fan and I predicted that he would kayo Cotto in the 11th round actually. I just thought his style and grit would mentally and physically wear him down and it did. Still not sure why Cotto totally abandoned the body attack. I think if he hung in there and went to the body, Cotto would've definitely won. Great fight though. Shane went to the body and hung in there. Arguably a harder puncher than Cotto, but you see how that gameplan worked.
I've gone back and forth on whether or not maybe he used the wraps against Cotto or maybe even before that? He's always kinda been a heavy handed puncher but against Cotto, Cotto was outboxing him easy and got hit with one straight right hand that changed the fight in the 2nd round. It didn't seem like a very hard or fast punch but Cotto walked straight backwards almost literally sat on the ropes. That's when Margarito walked over to him and started landing uppercuts (which was the key to the fight to me because of Cotto's defensive eafmuff stance) and it was almost as though Cotto refused to move from there. He just stayed there getting punched over and over a few times in that fight without circling when he could've gotten away. I never understood that and it was after the first real punch Margarito landed. I also thought that Margarito didn't look like he was throwing punches with full force, like he was holding back for some reason and often punching with his hands open from what I remember. They weren't a tight, closed fist in a lot of punches which I thought was weird.
I thought Cotto's face being mangled kinda showed some evidence of that but then it looked just the same when he lost to Pacquiao so I'm still not sure. Good boxing convo breh
I don't know if you can call it fighting more intelligently when you're repeatedly getting blasted in the face and walking through punches can you? He always cut the ring off well and threw volume punches. I have to disagree with you there.
I used to be a huge margarito fan and I predicted that he would kayo Cotto in the 11th round actually. I just thought his style and grit would mentally and physically wear him down and it did. Still not sure why Cotto totally abandoned the body attack. I think if he hung in there and went to the body, Cotto would've definitely won. Great fight though. Shane went to the body and hung in there. Arguably a harder puncher than Cotto, but you see how that gameplan worked.
I've gone back and forth on whether or not maybe he used the wraps against Cotto or maybe even before that? He's always kinda been a heavy handed puncher but against Cotto, Cotto was outboxing him easy and got hit with one straight right hand that changed the fight in the 2nd round. It didn't seem like a very hard or fast punch but Cotto walked straight backwards almost literally sat on the ropes. That's when Margarito walked over to him and started landing uppercuts (which was the key to the fight to me because of Cotto's defensive eafmuff stance) and it was almost as though Cotto refused to move from there. He just stayed there getting punched over and over a few times in that fight without circling when he could've gotten away. I never understood that and it was after the first real punch Margarito landed. I also thought that Margarito didn't look like he was throwing punches with full force, like he was holding back for some reason and often punching with his hands open from what I remember. They weren't a tight, closed fist in a lot of punches which I thought was weird.
I thought Cotto's face being mangled kinda showed some evidence of that but then it looked just the same when he lost to Pacquiao so I'm still not sure. Good boxing convo breh
Well yeah he's fighting more intelligently because he isn't as wild. Eating punches with his face is his style though and because he has an iron chin that's what he has to do - take 2-3 punches in order to get off a couple of his own. Margarito isn't some flashy boxer he's never going to be so this is the only style he can use and he pretty much perfected it in the cotto fight.
I don't think cotto could attack the body because of the size difference, because Margarito was throwing/landing brutal uppercuts (I believe as early as round 2) and because of Margarito's non-stop pressure.
Cotto had the right approach and gameplan he just couldn't last. I think if Cotto would have stayed inside more and tried to work the body he would have got blasted in like 6-8 rounds. Margarito was just too big and too much of a beast to do that. Plus Cotto always had a bit of a shaky chin to begin with.
Right. Styles make fights though and I think more of a reason shane won was because he clinched. Every time shane got off a couple punches he would clinch. Anytime Margarito got too close to shane he would clinch. Cotto didn't clinch a single time against Magarito.
I've heard people say that if Margarito started to use illegal wraps it probably would have been after losing to Paul Williams. Of course will never know.
I know exactly what punch you're talking about and it was a heavy shot. Cotto is easily rocked/wobbled remember so it's no surprise that a power shot from margarito shook him early. Cotto has been rocked by lesser opponents.
Also, keep in mind that supposedly the illegal wraps that Margarito got caught with against shane, they said it gets harder as the fight goes on, so late in the fight. If cotto gets rocked in round 2 I don't know if that's plaster I think that's just him getting rocked.
Yeah it's hard to say. It's a shame too because I thought that was probably the best welterweight fight in the past 10 years.
Too be honest I'm still not even completely sold on the severity of what Margarito was caught with against Shane. It's like a small knuckle pad, not plaster of paris like people often mistakenly say it was. I don't know what to think.
I don't think cotto could attack the body because of the size difference, because Margarito was throwing/landing brutal uppercuts (I believe as early as round 2) and because of Margarito's non-stop pressure.
Cotto had the right approach and gameplan he just couldn't last. I think if Cotto would have stayed inside more and tried to work the body he would have got blasted in like 6-8 rounds. Margarito was just too big and too much of a beast to do that. Plus Cotto always had a bit of a shaky chin to begin with.
Right. Styles make fights though and I think more of a reason shane won was because he clinched. Every time shane got off a couple punches he would clinch. Anytime Margarito got too close to shane he would clinch. Cotto didn't clinch a single time against Magarito.
I've heard people say that if Margarito started to use illegal wraps it probably would have been after losing to Paul Williams. Of course will never know.
I know exactly what punch you're talking about and it was a heavy shot. Cotto is easily rocked/wobbled remember so it's no surprise that a power shot from margarito shook him early. Cotto has been rocked by lesser opponents.
Also, keep in mind that supposedly the illegal wraps that Margarito got caught with against shane, they said it gets harder as the fight goes on, so late in the fight. If cotto gets rocked in round 2 I don't know if that's plaster I think that's just him getting rocked.
Yeah it's hard to say. It's a shame too because I thought that was probably the best welterweight fight in the past 10 years.
Too be honest I'm still not even completely sold on the severity of what Margarito was caught with against Shane. It's like a small knuckle pad, not plaster of paris like people often mistakenly say it was. I don't know what to think.
I'll have to get back to this later but name a time that Cotto was rocked/wobbled before fighting margarito at 147lbs? He had a sturdy chin at the weight. They attributed his shaky chin at 140lbs from being weak from being so drained trying to make the weight. There's a slough of guys that are stronger as they go up in weight or grow into their bodies. He wasn't really rocked at all against Mosley who punches harder than Margarito in a blistering fight. He was wearing down but not "rocked" like he had been a few times at least at 140.
From what I understand, it was a knuckle pad with some sprinkled on it. Not sure how much but it doesn't take a ton of it for it to be effective. If you get hit hard enough to feel a dudes knuckles, that's a hard punch to take (that's why so many dudes are knocked out in MMA). Beyond that, he was already a (heavy handed) fighter. A lot of mexicans are because of bone density. His knuckles are pretty hard to begin with so an added edge in that area is going to literally be lethal
From what I understand, it was a knuckle pad with some sprinkled on it. Not sure how much but it doesn't take a ton of it for it to be effective. If you get hit hard enough to feel a dudes knuckles, that's a hard punch to take (that's why so many dudes are knocked out in MMA). Beyond that, he was already a (heavy handed) fighter. A lot of mexicans are because of bone density. His knuckles are pretty hard to begin with so an added edge in that area is going to literally be lethal
the idea behind this is that they put it on as dry powder. Hands start to sweat just being in a glove but they often have a 15-20 warm up with gloves (depending on the fighter). The hands will be very sweaty at that point. My gloves have always been pretty nasty wet after 3 rounds of mitt work for instance. They get him dressed and ready to walk out. There's usually 5-10 minutes of waiting, his ring walk, the opponents ring walk and the intro. That's AT LEAST 20 minutes of not punching anything. Plaster of paris doesn't take that long to dry though it takes longer in a glove than open air of course. He didn't land a punch of significance in the first round and it was maybe a minute 20 seconds into the 2nd that the first big punch landed. That's at least 25 minutes now. It should be plenty hard at that point
Judah rocked him early at the end of round 2 and again I believe round 3. Clottey had him badly hurt numerous times.
I am in no way say Cotto has a terrible chin I'm just saying he's been rocked throughout his career, regardless if it's at 140 or 147. I'd say he has a sturdy chin, but a vulnerable one at the same time.
Were talking about a punch that landed in the 2nd round against Margarito that shook him, or rocked him. Not a knock down blow. these types of shots happened throughout cotto's career. The difference was cotto was always able to come back strong margarito just broke him down over time (which ironically is what cotto typically did to his opponents).
Right I understand that much, but it's far less severe then the "plaster of paris" type shit you hear about in the old days or Collins vs Resto for example, where literally their entire hand is plaster (and Resto actually had the pads removed from the glove as well).
I am in no way say Cotto has a terrible chin I'm just saying he's been rocked throughout his career, regardless if it's at 140 or 147. I'd say he has a sturdy chin, but a vulnerable one at the same time.
Were talking about a punch that landed in the 2nd round against Margarito that shook him, or rocked him. Not a knock down blow. these types of shots happened throughout cotto's career. The difference was cotto was always able to come back strong margarito just broke him down over time (which ironically is what cotto typically did to his opponents).
Right I understand that much, but it's far less severe then the "plaster of paris" type shit you hear about in the old days or Collins vs Resto for example, where literally their entire hand is plaster (and Resto actually had the pads removed from the glove as well).
Judah uppercutted him real freakin hard but he didn't look rocked. That may be a subjective statement. I didn't think his legs looked wobbly or anything like that, it was just a really good shot. That was my view of it.
Collins vs Resto, they just removed an ounce of padding from each glove, not plaster as well but that probably felt similar to a normal 8 ounce glove with someone that had plaster underneath I would guess? No way to know.
Collins vs Resto, they just removed an ounce of padding from each glove, not plaster as well but that probably felt similar to a normal 8 ounce glove with someone that had plaster underneath I would guess? No way to know.
^^^resto had plaster as well as the padding removed.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3329115
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3329115