Jason Schmidt (Cy Young)
- Thread starter Ethereal
- Start date
Long live this thread. A little late (work/school) but Jason Schmidt just picthed another Gem against the (arguably) best team in the MLB, the Atlanta Braves.
8 IP 0ER 1BB 7SO
The Braves have the second ranked offense in the entire majors, why couldnt they record a single run against this man?
He fell victim to poor relief pitching though. He racked up another no decision, still 12-5 on the year, but ranking very high in every statistical catagory. Damn this lack of run support and relief pitching. If he doesn't win the Cy Young on the pace he's going, it's because it is completely out of his hands.
8 IP 0ER 1BB 7SO
The Braves have the second ranked offense in the entire majors, why couldnt they record a single run against this man?
He fell victim to poor relief pitching though. He racked up another no decision, still 12-5 on the year, but ranking very high in every statistical catagory. Damn this lack of run support and relief pitching. If he doesn't win the Cy Young on the pace he's going, it's because it is completely out of his hands.
Peep game:
K. Brown 12-6 with 2.25 ERA and 148 K's
J. Schmidt 12-5 with 2.37 ERA and 164 K's
M. Prior 12-5 with 2.54 ERA and 179 K's
Those guys are doin basically all the same!! I dont think at this point that either of them will win the award!! My top 3 at this point are:
1. E. Gagne 42 Saves 42 Chances with 1.52 ERA
2. J. Smoltz 43 Saves 46 Chances with 0.92 ERA
3. R. Ortiz 17-5 with 3.49 ERA 116 K's
Thats my up to date choices at this time!! What do yall think at this point!! Come holla nitro!! GOT EM!!!
K. Brown 12-6 with 2.25 ERA and 148 K's
J. Schmidt 12-5 with 2.37 ERA and 164 K's
M. Prior 12-5 with 2.54 ERA and 179 K's
Those guys are doin basically all the same!! I dont think at this point that either of them will win the award!! My top 3 at this point are:
1. E. Gagne 42 Saves 42 Chances with 1.52 ERA
2. J. Smoltz 43 Saves 46 Chances with 0.92 ERA
3. R. Ortiz 17-5 with 3.49 ERA 116 K's
Thats my up to date choices at this time!! What do yall think at this point!! Come holla nitro!! GOT EM!!!
Your Cy Young list looks pretty good, except I would put Ortiz at number 1 and the closers somewhere below. I don't see any closer winning the award as long as there are starting pitchers like Ortiz puting up solid numbers. The first three pitchers you named, however, are all better then Ortiz, with less run support.
Smoltz HARDLEY has anything on lock. He is on pace to EQUAL the same amount of saves he had last year (55), with 3 less wins, but a far better ERA. If he can keep his ERA somewhere around or under 1, then I think he has a legitimate chance. Besides, Gange has yet to blow a single save, so I don't see how Smoltz has locked a damn thing. All it is going to take is one bad outing and these closers are going to see smoke.
Im sticking with Jason Schmidt. Maybe if he can get his ERA under 2, people will start to take more notice.
In all fairness, I would have to say Ortiz leads the list as of right now. Regardless his run support, he is puting in work. It's going to be a close one, I can tell you that much.
Smoltz HARDLEY has anything on lock. He is on pace to EQUAL the same amount of saves he had last year (55), with 3 less wins, but a far better ERA. If he can keep his ERA somewhere around or under 1, then I think he has a legitimate chance. Besides, Gange has yet to blow a single save, so I don't see how Smoltz has locked a damn thing. All it is going to take is one bad outing and these closers are going to see smoke.
Im sticking with Jason Schmidt. Maybe if he can get his ERA under 2, people will start to take more notice.
In all fairness, I would have to say Ortiz leads the list as of right now. Regardless his run support, he is puting in work. It's going to be a close one, I can tell you that much.
Yea for sure Brown & Prior are better than Ortiz as far as a pitcher goes, and Schmidt maybe!! The reason I say maybe about Schmidt is because I thought Ortiz was better than Schmidt last year on the same team, plus it took Schmidt a while before he got good!! U know comin from the Braves system he was supposed to be tight from the jump, but it took him a while!! But theres no doubt he has pitched better than Ortiz this year, so its close!! But I still think that Ortiz hasnt been that dominate to win the award over Gagne!! If Gagne doesnt blow a single save this year, then he will probably win it!! GOT EM!!!
how can you give Smoltz the edge over Gagne?????
Gagne rules over all catagories over Smoltz except ERA and for closers that isnt the main factor to determine ones pitching.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1593929.html
here is a small excerpt from the ESPN article i just linked
"And when you throw in Gagne's strikeouts (and his amazingly low rate of baserunners allowed), it seems obvious to me that he's been slightly better than Smoltz. And probably the most valuable pitcher in the league."
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Eric Gagne is averaging well over a strikeout per inning this season
prior is the future. right now it is coming down to brown and schmidt. and you can guess where my money is (mcleanhatch=Dodger fan) but regardless of that i say brown has put up the more impressive munbers, especially having to go about his job day in and day out under the pressure of wondering if he is going to get another 0-1 loss, damn that dodger offense.
and ya ortiz is putting up good numbers but his lack of a low ERA and low strikeouts and amazingly high run support has him in my opinion in a different league than brown, schmidt, and prior. right now i can just imagine what those other three pitchers W/L recortds would be if they recieved the same amount of run support as Ortiz is recieving right now
Gagne rules over all catagories over Smoltz except ERA and for closers that isnt the main factor to determine ones pitching.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1593929.html
here is a small excerpt from the ESPN article i just linked
"And when you throw in Gagne's strikeouts (and his amazingly low rate of baserunners allowed), it seems obvious to me that he's been slightly better than Smoltz. And probably the most valuable pitcher in the league."
.
Eric Gagne is averaging well over a strikeout per inning this season
BAMMER said:
Prior will finish second only because he missed a few starts.He's still the best pitcher in baseball ALREADY.
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and ya ortiz is putting up good numbers but his lack of a low ERA and low strikeouts and amazingly high run support has him in my opinion in a different league than brown, schmidt, and prior. right now i can just imagine what those other three pitchers W/L recortds would be if they recieved the same amount of run support as Ortiz is recieving right now
Braves are playing for something,and Smoltz is delivering.
Gagne is raw,but I think he lacks the one thing that will give him a chance,and that's a playoff contender.
That's just how I see it developing.I doubt a youngster like Gagne will recieve more votes than an already well known pitcher playing for the best team in baseball,who has been nothing but succsessful in the past.
Schmidt gets to 19 or 20,he has a shot.
Gagne is raw,but I think he lacks the one thing that will give him a chance,and that's a playoff contender.
That's just how I see it developing.I doubt a youngster like Gagne will recieve more votes than an already well known pitcher playing for the best team in baseball,who has been nothing but succsessful in the past.
Schmidt gets to 19 or 20,he has a shot.
Actually the Dodgers are in the thick of the wildcard chase, so they are contenders!! Ofcourse they aint the Braves, but still they are contending, and thats all that matters!! Well see what happens, but I would have to take Gagne over Smoltz, atleast until and if he blows a save!! And as for Schmidt winnin 19 or 20 and havin a shot, that also goes for Brown & Prior!! GOT EM!!!
heres another link to another sports writer
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1603327
Tuesday, August 26, 2003
By Phil Rogers
Special to ESPN.com
Sure, it's been 11 years since one received the ultimate recognition in their line of work. But relievers are pitchers, too.
There's no reason they shouldn't receive serious consideration when it's time to fill out a Cy Young Award ballot. In fact, as teams round the last quarter pole and head for home, the two best Cy Young candidates in the National League do almost all of their work in the ninth inning.
If the vote was taken today, the proper question would be which closer deserves it more: John Smoltz, the foundation of a great team in Atlanta, or Los Angeles' Eric Gagne, who just might be having the best year a reliever ever had, Dennis Eckersley's 1992 season included.
John Smoltz leads the majors with 44 saves and also has a 0.89 ERA.
The political reality, however, raises a secondary question: Given the bias toward starting pitchers, can a reliever win the Cy Young Award when there are two strong candidates?
It's hard to differentiate between Gagne, who is having a superior season on a lesser team, and Smoltz, who is having an almost equally tremendous season for the best team in the league and merits support for his leadership skills and previous success as a starter (including a Cy Young in 1996).
Their splitting the vote might open the door for the season's best starting pitcher, with those candidates including the Braves' Russ Ortiz, the Dodgers' Kevin Brown and San Francisco's Jason Schmidt. But this year, no starting pitcher deserves to be ranked ahead of either of the NL's top two relievers.
John Smoltz leads the majors with 44 saves and also has a 0.89 ERA.
In voting that began in 1956, the Baseball Writers Association of America has handed out 94 Cy Young awards. Seven of those have gone to relievers. That's one every seven years between the two leagues and relievers currently find themselves in a drought.
None of their kind have won since Eckersley in 1992, when he allowed only four more hits than his combined total of wins (seven) and saves (51). Only twice in the last decade have relievers finished even second: Jose Mesa in '95 and Trevor Hoffman in '98.
But that should change if Gagne and Smoltz avoid September meltdowns. If they both hold up, we should have a repeat of the greatest day ever for relievers -- that day in 1984 when Willie Hernandez won the AL Cy Young by a margin of 17 votes over Kansas City closer Dan Quisenberry. Mike Boddicker, who led the league with 20 wins and a 2.79 ERA, somehow finished fourth (Bert Blyleven was third).
With no dominating starter in the picture, another 1-2 finish for closers looms on the horizon.
For the moment, I'd take Gagne over Smoltz. That is very hard for me to do because Smoltz just might be my favorite big-leaguer.
If judged by a combination of production and professionalism, there's nobody better than Smoltz. He spent the majority of his career comfortably nestled in the shadow of Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine, but he's always been the guy Braves manager Bobby Cox most wanted on the mound in October. Smoltz's Game 7 performance in 1991 was an all-time masterpiece.
When his elbow finally gave out in 2000, after more than 2,400 innings as a starter, Smoltz went to the pits for a major overhaul (Tommy John surgery). He returned more determined than ever a year later, but had trouble staying on the mound as a starter. To his everlasting credit, he was open-minded about a move to the bullpen, which had collapsed around John Rocker.
Smoltz pitched well out of the bullpen for the Braves in the 2001 playoffs and has thrived in the new role the last two seasons. With Glavine and Millwood gone and Maddux struggling in April, he inspired confidence for a pitching staff in turmoil early this year. He was on track to shatter Bobby Thigpen's save record before running into a shortage of save situations in August.
He got his 42nd save on Aug. 2, in the Braves' 110th game, putting him on pace to set a major-league record with 62. But then he pitched only twice in 19 days as Atlanta went 8-9, with its average margin of victory during that stretch a robust 5.4. Not many save situations under those circumstances.
"If we win, this role is powerful," Smoltz said. "If we don't win, this role sucks."
For a closer, that's the reality. Coming from Smoltz, it wasn't a complaint.
Smoltz understands that a minimal workload this late in the season could come in handy in October, when he'd love to get another 11 saves.
Eric Gagne is 43-for-43 in save opportunities this season.
"Right now I'm approaching it as, 'my job is to pitch the ninth inning (in save opportunities),' " Smoltz said. "The record would be nice, but I know my body, and I know what I was headed for (if the heavy workload continued).''
Smoltz currently leads Gagne in saves 44-43. That pace would leave them with 55 and 54 saves, respectively, but either could still challenge the record Thigpen set when he had 57 saves for the Chicago White Sox in 1990.
Smoltz's 0.89 ERA is lower than any of the seven relievers who have won the Cy Young (the best of those marks being Rollie Fingers' 1.04 in the strike-shortened '81 season). But it's overly simplistic to give the nod to Smoltz over Gagne because he has more saves and a lower ERA.
Eric Gagne is 43-for-43 in save opportunities this season.
All Gagne has done is go 43-for-43 in save situations (the All-Star Game excluded) while holding opponents to a .133 batting average and striking out 15.4 batters per nine innings. Those numbers are absolutely obscene.
On Tuesday, Gagne celebrated the one-year anniversary of his last blown save. His streak of converted save situations stood at 51 entering the Dodgers' series at Houston. He had nailed down 95 of 99 chances since being shifted to the bullpen for the start of the 2002 season.
No reliever has ever had a stretch like this. Or a season like Gagne's 2003.
Eckersley's '92 season is considered the standard. He was 7-1 with 51 saves in 54 chances. He walked only 1.2 batters per nine innings but allowed opponents to hit .211, including a .262 average by left-handed hitters (remember Roberto Alomar's homer for Toronto in the playoffs?).
Gagne is handling left-handed hitters (.111) as well as right-handed hitters (.154). He's been incredibly durable, getting 22 of his saves working back-to-back days.
That's a Cy Young performance. Here's a look at my ballot five weeks from the finish line:
1. Gagne
2. Smoltz
3. Brown -- Because he has only 12 wins, it's easy to overlook what a great comeback he has made. His 2.15 ERA leads the majors. Twenty-two of 26 times out he's delivered quality starts, which also leads the majors. But among 97 qualifying pitchers, his average run support of 4.1 ranks 89th. The Dodgers have scored two runs or less in eight of his starts, including six of his last 10.
Also considered:
Ortiz -- For more than two months now, he's been almost unbeatable. He's 11-1 in his last 13 starts, giving him a major league-best 18 wins. He's on pace to finish 23-6. But a closer look shows he's been fortunate, as well as good. Atlanta is averaging 6.7 runs per start behind Ortiz, who ranks 13th in the NL with a 3.56 ERA. Only teammate Shane Reynolds (7.0) and St. Louis' Woody Williams (6.7) have had better run support.
Hideo Nomo -- Like Brown, run support has been a major issue for a very consistent starter. He's won 15 games despite the Dodgers averaging only 4.4 runs per game in his starts.
Schmidt -- The NL's All-Star Game starter has been spectacular at times, but only figures to make about 30 starts. He missed time early in the season because of the death of his mother and has had some elbow problems since a stretch of three consecutive games in late June.
Mark Prior -- Like Schmidt, the 22-year-old Prior might be making a serious run for the Cy Young Award had he not spent time on the disabled list. He missed three weeks with a sore shoulder after a base-running collision in July, but has been excellent since his return. If the Cubs make the playoffs, manager Dusty Baker should start him, and not Kerry Wood, in the Division Series opener.
Phil Rogers is the national baseball writer for the Chicago Tribune, which has a Web site at www.chicagosports.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1603327
Tuesday, August 26, 2003
By Phil Rogers
Special to ESPN.com
Sure, it's been 11 years since one received the ultimate recognition in their line of work. But relievers are pitchers, too.
There's no reason they shouldn't receive serious consideration when it's time to fill out a Cy Young Award ballot. In fact, as teams round the last quarter pole and head for home, the two best Cy Young candidates in the National League do almost all of their work in the ninth inning.
If the vote was taken today, the proper question would be which closer deserves it more: John Smoltz, the foundation of a great team in Atlanta, or Los Angeles' Eric Gagne, who just might be having the best year a reliever ever had, Dennis Eckersley's 1992 season included.
John Smoltz leads the majors with 44 saves and also has a 0.89 ERA.
The political reality, however, raises a secondary question: Given the bias toward starting pitchers, can a reliever win the Cy Young Award when there are two strong candidates?
It's hard to differentiate between Gagne, who is having a superior season on a lesser team, and Smoltz, who is having an almost equally tremendous season for the best team in the league and merits support for his leadership skills and previous success as a starter (including a Cy Young in 1996).
Their splitting the vote might open the door for the season's best starting pitcher, with those candidates including the Braves' Russ Ortiz, the Dodgers' Kevin Brown and San Francisco's Jason Schmidt. But this year, no starting pitcher deserves to be ranked ahead of either of the NL's top two relievers.
John Smoltz leads the majors with 44 saves and also has a 0.89 ERA.
In voting that began in 1956, the Baseball Writers Association of America has handed out 94 Cy Young awards. Seven of those have gone to relievers. That's one every seven years between the two leagues and relievers currently find themselves in a drought.
None of their kind have won since Eckersley in 1992, when he allowed only four more hits than his combined total of wins (seven) and saves (51). Only twice in the last decade have relievers finished even second: Jose Mesa in '95 and Trevor Hoffman in '98.
But that should change if Gagne and Smoltz avoid September meltdowns. If they both hold up, we should have a repeat of the greatest day ever for relievers -- that day in 1984 when Willie Hernandez won the AL Cy Young by a margin of 17 votes over Kansas City closer Dan Quisenberry. Mike Boddicker, who led the league with 20 wins and a 2.79 ERA, somehow finished fourth (Bert Blyleven was third).
With no dominating starter in the picture, another 1-2 finish for closers looms on the horizon.
For the moment, I'd take Gagne over Smoltz. That is very hard for me to do because Smoltz just might be my favorite big-leaguer.
If judged by a combination of production and professionalism, there's nobody better than Smoltz. He spent the majority of his career comfortably nestled in the shadow of Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine, but he's always been the guy Braves manager Bobby Cox most wanted on the mound in October. Smoltz's Game 7 performance in 1991 was an all-time masterpiece.
When his elbow finally gave out in 2000, after more than 2,400 innings as a starter, Smoltz went to the pits for a major overhaul (Tommy John surgery). He returned more determined than ever a year later, but had trouble staying on the mound as a starter. To his everlasting credit, he was open-minded about a move to the bullpen, which had collapsed around John Rocker.
Smoltz pitched well out of the bullpen for the Braves in the 2001 playoffs and has thrived in the new role the last two seasons. With Glavine and Millwood gone and Maddux struggling in April, he inspired confidence for a pitching staff in turmoil early this year. He was on track to shatter Bobby Thigpen's save record before running into a shortage of save situations in August.
He got his 42nd save on Aug. 2, in the Braves' 110th game, putting him on pace to set a major-league record with 62. But then he pitched only twice in 19 days as Atlanta went 8-9, with its average margin of victory during that stretch a robust 5.4. Not many save situations under those circumstances.
"If we win, this role is powerful," Smoltz said. "If we don't win, this role sucks."
For a closer, that's the reality. Coming from Smoltz, it wasn't a complaint.
Smoltz understands that a minimal workload this late in the season could come in handy in October, when he'd love to get another 11 saves.
Eric Gagne is 43-for-43 in save opportunities this season.
"Right now I'm approaching it as, 'my job is to pitch the ninth inning (in save opportunities),' " Smoltz said. "The record would be nice, but I know my body, and I know what I was headed for (if the heavy workload continued).''
Smoltz currently leads Gagne in saves 44-43. That pace would leave them with 55 and 54 saves, respectively, but either could still challenge the record Thigpen set when he had 57 saves for the Chicago White Sox in 1990.
Smoltz's 0.89 ERA is lower than any of the seven relievers who have won the Cy Young (the best of those marks being Rollie Fingers' 1.04 in the strike-shortened '81 season). But it's overly simplistic to give the nod to Smoltz over Gagne because he has more saves and a lower ERA.
Eric Gagne is 43-for-43 in save opportunities this season.
All Gagne has done is go 43-for-43 in save situations (the All-Star Game excluded) while holding opponents to a .133 batting average and striking out 15.4 batters per nine innings. Those numbers are absolutely obscene.
On Tuesday, Gagne celebrated the one-year anniversary of his last blown save. His streak of converted save situations stood at 51 entering the Dodgers' series at Houston. He had nailed down 95 of 99 chances since being shifted to the bullpen for the start of the 2002 season.
No reliever has ever had a stretch like this. Or a season like Gagne's 2003.
Eckersley's '92 season is considered the standard. He was 7-1 with 51 saves in 54 chances. He walked only 1.2 batters per nine innings but allowed opponents to hit .211, including a .262 average by left-handed hitters (remember Roberto Alomar's homer for Toronto in the playoffs?).
Gagne is handling left-handed hitters (.111) as well as right-handed hitters (.154). He's been incredibly durable, getting 22 of his saves working back-to-back days.
That's a Cy Young performance. Here's a look at my ballot five weeks from the finish line:
1. Gagne
2. Smoltz
3. Brown -- Because he has only 12 wins, it's easy to overlook what a great comeback he has made. His 2.15 ERA leads the majors. Twenty-two of 26 times out he's delivered quality starts, which also leads the majors. But among 97 qualifying pitchers, his average run support of 4.1 ranks 89th. The Dodgers have scored two runs or less in eight of his starts, including six of his last 10.
Also considered:
Ortiz -- For more than two months now, he's been almost unbeatable. He's 11-1 in his last 13 starts, giving him a major league-best 18 wins. He's on pace to finish 23-6. But a closer look shows he's been fortunate, as well as good. Atlanta is averaging 6.7 runs per start behind Ortiz, who ranks 13th in the NL with a 3.56 ERA. Only teammate Shane Reynolds (7.0) and St. Louis' Woody Williams (6.7) have had better run support.
Hideo Nomo -- Like Brown, run support has been a major issue for a very consistent starter. He's won 15 games despite the Dodgers averaging only 4.4 runs per game in his starts.
Schmidt -- The NL's All-Star Game starter has been spectacular at times, but only figures to make about 30 starts. He missed time early in the season because of the death of his mother and has had some elbow problems since a stretch of three consecutive games in late June.
Mark Prior -- Like Schmidt, the 22-year-old Prior might be making a serious run for the Cy Young Award had he not spent time on the disabled list. He missed three weeks with a sore shoulder after a base-running collision in July, but has been excellent since his return. If the Cubs make the playoffs, manager Dusty Baker should start him, and not Kerry Wood, in the Division Series opener.
Phil Rogers is the national baseball writer for the Chicago Tribune, which has a Web site at www.chicagosports.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1603315
Tuesday, August 26, 2003
By Buster Olney
ESPN The Magazine
Eric Gagne looks like the Gym Class Kid From Hell, the big and burly guy who terrorizes everybody in games of killball and intramural softball, competing at a different speed, leaving dents in the bodies of schoolmates. Everybody else just wants to get through class with a passing grade, but Gym Class Kid From Hell stares through the protective eyewear that his mother forced upon him and he's much more serious and intense than anybody else.
Eric Gagne averages more than 15 strikeouts per nine innings.
He is dominating the National League this season in a manner rarely seen; if Gagne were a batter, he'd be Barry Bonds in 2001 or Babe Ruth in 1921. Gagne has 43 saves in 43 chances, and that's probably the least remarkable feature of a 2003 résumé that should win him a Cy Young Award.
Opposing batters have mustered 30 hits and 17 walks in his 66 innings, which means that somebody reaches base about once every four outs against the Dodgers' closer. And if a runner happens to reach second base with nobody out, or third base with one out, don't bother waiting for the groundball or flyball to advance; Gagne has 113 strikeouts in 66 innings. It's as if he were Danny Almonte playing in the Little League World Series at 17 years old, instead of 14.
Eric Gagne averages more than 15 strikeouts per nine innings.
Gagne throws strikes consistently, reaching a count of no balls and two strikes against 77 batters -- and those hitters have a combined average of .039, with 55 strikeouts. You fall behind in the count, you are finished.
There is one blemish on Gagne's credentials, through very little fault of his own. The Dodgers are a mediocre run-starved team, hanging at the back of the pack in the wild-card race, and history shows that the baseball writers who submit Cy Young Award ballots prefer their closers to be on contending teams.
Eight closers have won the award in the past, five of those for division winners. The Dodgers' Mike Marshall won in 1974, when Los Angeles won the NL West, in an era when closers contributed more than three or four outs: Marshall made a record 106 appearances, threw 208.2 innings and went 15-12 with 21 saves.
Sparky Lyle was the AL Cy Young winner in 1977, a year in which the Yankees won the World Series. Rollie Fingers led the Milwaukee Brewers to the playoffs in 1981, when the playoff format was broadened to account for the affects of the players' strike that summer. Willie Hernandez won the award as the Tigers' closer in 1984, when Detroit won the World Series. And Dennis Eckersley won in 1992, when the Athletics advanced to the playoffs.
When Mark Davis was the NL Cy Young Award winner in 1989, his Padres went 89-73, finishing in second place. Only two closers of sub-.500 teams have won the award. Steve Bedrosian of the 80-82 Phillies in 1987, a season saturated with offense, a summer that saw the dominant Dwight Gooden beset by drug problems and Rick Sutcliffe lead the league with 18 victories. The Cubs went 80-82 when Bruce Sutter was the Cy Young Award winner in 1979, a feat that Hall of Fame voters might consider in the future.
The baseball writers submitting Cy Young ballots have demonstrated a clear preference for victories (and rightly so, victories being the primary goal of most players). There have been years in which the Cy Young winner was not necessarily his league's best pitcher but racked up a lot of victories (Baltimore's Steve Stone in 1980, LaMarr Hoyt in 1983, Bob Welch in 1990). Voters prefer players who contribute to winning teams; it helps immensely if your team is headed for the postseason.
But every so often a player has the kind of year when some of the usual standards are thrown out in the face of excellence. Steve Carlton won the Cy Young Award while pitching for the last-place Phillies in 1972, a fact that seemed to enhance his candidacy. Carlton won 27 games that summer, and the rest of the Phillies' pitchers produced 32 victories. Pedro Martinez had just 17 victories for the Expos in 1997, when Montreal finished six games under .500; that was three victories fewer than Denny Neagle's 20, or the 19 posted by Greg Maddux and Darryl Kile and Shawn Estes. But Martinez had an ERA of 1.90 and 305 strikeouts in 241 innings, in his last season before he was traded to Boston for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas, Jr., and Martinez won the first of his three Cy Young Awards that year.
So it should be for Gagne, who is generating perhaps the greatest season of statistics for any closer in any year, in a summer when no NL starting pitcher has been truly dominant. Barring a collapse, Gagne will probably get a welcome phone call on the November day the NL Cy Young Award is announced. Like The Gym Class Kid From Hell, he's been competing at a different level than anybody else.
Buster Olney is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.
Tuesday, August 26, 2003
By Buster Olney
ESPN The Magazine
Eric Gagne looks like the Gym Class Kid From Hell, the big and burly guy who terrorizes everybody in games of killball and intramural softball, competing at a different speed, leaving dents in the bodies of schoolmates. Everybody else just wants to get through class with a passing grade, but Gym Class Kid From Hell stares through the protective eyewear that his mother forced upon him and he's much more serious and intense than anybody else.
Eric Gagne averages more than 15 strikeouts per nine innings.
He is dominating the National League this season in a manner rarely seen; if Gagne were a batter, he'd be Barry Bonds in 2001 or Babe Ruth in 1921. Gagne has 43 saves in 43 chances, and that's probably the least remarkable feature of a 2003 résumé that should win him a Cy Young Award.
Opposing batters have mustered 30 hits and 17 walks in his 66 innings, which means that somebody reaches base about once every four outs against the Dodgers' closer. And if a runner happens to reach second base with nobody out, or third base with one out, don't bother waiting for the groundball or flyball to advance; Gagne has 113 strikeouts in 66 innings. It's as if he were Danny Almonte playing in the Little League World Series at 17 years old, instead of 14.
Eric Gagne averages more than 15 strikeouts per nine innings.
Gagne throws strikes consistently, reaching a count of no balls and two strikes against 77 batters -- and those hitters have a combined average of .039, with 55 strikeouts. You fall behind in the count, you are finished.
There is one blemish on Gagne's credentials, through very little fault of his own. The Dodgers are a mediocre run-starved team, hanging at the back of the pack in the wild-card race, and history shows that the baseball writers who submit Cy Young Award ballots prefer their closers to be on contending teams.
Eight closers have won the award in the past, five of those for division winners. The Dodgers' Mike Marshall won in 1974, when Los Angeles won the NL West, in an era when closers contributed more than three or four outs: Marshall made a record 106 appearances, threw 208.2 innings and went 15-12 with 21 saves.
Sparky Lyle was the AL Cy Young winner in 1977, a year in which the Yankees won the World Series. Rollie Fingers led the Milwaukee Brewers to the playoffs in 1981, when the playoff format was broadened to account for the affects of the players' strike that summer. Willie Hernandez won the award as the Tigers' closer in 1984, when Detroit won the World Series. And Dennis Eckersley won in 1992, when the Athletics advanced to the playoffs.
When Mark Davis was the NL Cy Young Award winner in 1989, his Padres went 89-73, finishing in second place. Only two closers of sub-.500 teams have won the award. Steve Bedrosian of the 80-82 Phillies in 1987, a season saturated with offense, a summer that saw the dominant Dwight Gooden beset by drug problems and Rick Sutcliffe lead the league with 18 victories. The Cubs went 80-82 when Bruce Sutter was the Cy Young Award winner in 1979, a feat that Hall of Fame voters might consider in the future.
The baseball writers submitting Cy Young ballots have demonstrated a clear preference for victories (and rightly so, victories being the primary goal of most players). There have been years in which the Cy Young winner was not necessarily his league's best pitcher but racked up a lot of victories (Baltimore's Steve Stone in 1980, LaMarr Hoyt in 1983, Bob Welch in 1990). Voters prefer players who contribute to winning teams; it helps immensely if your team is headed for the postseason.
But every so often a player has the kind of year when some of the usual standards are thrown out in the face of excellence. Steve Carlton won the Cy Young Award while pitching for the last-place Phillies in 1972, a fact that seemed to enhance his candidacy. Carlton won 27 games that summer, and the rest of the Phillies' pitchers produced 32 victories. Pedro Martinez had just 17 victories for the Expos in 1997, when Montreal finished six games under .500; that was three victories fewer than Denny Neagle's 20, or the 19 posted by Greg Maddux and Darryl Kile and Shawn Estes. But Martinez had an ERA of 1.90 and 305 strikeouts in 241 innings, in his last season before he was traded to Boston for Carl Pavano and Tony Armas, Jr., and Martinez won the first of his three Cy Young Awards that year.
So it should be for Gagne, who is generating perhaps the greatest season of statistics for any closer in any year, in a summer when no NL starting pitcher has been truly dominant. Barring a collapse, Gagne will probably get a welcome phone call on the November day the NL Cy Young Award is announced. Like The Gym Class Kid From Hell, he's been competing at a different level than anybody else.
Buster Olney is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.
here is another link in which you can vote on who you think should win, and after you vote it will show you hat every1 else voted around the country.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=390
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=390
Both Schmidt and Prior are taking the mound today against the 4th and 5th best offensive teams in the Major's, both games are away.
Mark Prior vs. St. Louis Cardinals
Jason Schmidt vs. Colorado Rockies
Good luck to the both of them, it's going to be a tough day for these guys, runs will be scored.
LOL, Russ Ortiz has an average 6.7 run-support? Like I said before, "victories" should be looked at behind Strike Outs (including a so/walk ratio), ERA, WHIP, and Opponent BA. I really feel for Brown, on the Braves he would be looking at 18+ wins easily at this point.
Mark Prior vs. St. Louis Cardinals
Jason Schmidt vs. Colorado Rockies
Good luck to the both of them, it's going to be a tough day for these guys, runs will be scored.
LOL, Russ Ortiz has an average 6.7 run-support? Like I said before, "victories" should be looked at behind Strike Outs (including a so/walk ratio), ERA, WHIP, and Opponent BA. I really feel for Brown, on the Braves he would be looking at 18+ wins easily at this point.
I know, I understood it perfectly, I should have probably thrown an "of" in there. I was just laughing at that rediculously high amount that is. The other day I was trying to find something on run support average that certain pitchers have, do you have a source for this? If so can you post support averages for...
Jason Schmidt
Mark Prior
Kevin Brown
Kerry Wood
Jason Schmidt
Mark Prior
Kevin Brown
Kerry Wood
They both pitched outstanding today, and against very good offensive teams.
Jason Schmidt: 7.2IP 0ER 6SO 2BB (W) 13-5
Moved ERA down to 2.26 passing Pedro for 2nd in MLB.
Mark Prior: 8IP 1ER 6SO 1BB (W) 13-5
Moved ERA down to 2.47 passing Loaiza and Webb for 5th in MLB.
Schmidt just pitched a Gem against the 4th best offense team in the majors, this after pitching an 8 inning scoreless Gem against the best team (Braves) in all of baseball. Much props to Prior too, he also pitched great.
All three starters, Brown, Schmidt, and Prior, are now 1-2-3 in ERA in the National League. Talk about neck and neck.
Jason Schmidt: 7.2IP 0ER 6SO 2BB (W) 13-5
Moved ERA down to 2.26 passing Pedro for 2nd in MLB.
Mark Prior: 8IP 1ER 6SO 1BB (W) 13-5
Moved ERA down to 2.47 passing Loaiza and Webb for 5th in MLB.
Schmidt just pitched a Gem against the 4th best offense team in the majors, this after pitching an 8 inning scoreless Gem against the best team (Braves) in all of baseball. Much props to Prior too, he also pitched great.
All three starters, Brown, Schmidt, and Prior, are now 1-2-3 in ERA in the National League. Talk about neck and neck.