IS JUDAS IN HELL OR WAS HE JUST A PAWN?

EDJ · Nov 21, 2002

HERE WE gO AgAIN HERESY,
YOU ABOUT TO MAKE ME PULL OUT MY BIBLE AND RESEARCH MATERIAL. LOL.

BUT YOU STRESSED, "^^^ HELL AND LAKE OF FIRE ARE 2 *DISTINCT* PLACES.

I NEVER SAID THEY WERE THE SAME PLACE. BUT I KNOW HELL IS YOUR OWN gRAVE.

THEN YOU STRESSED, "I DONT SEE HOW PEOPLE CAN SAY THAT SOMETHING ISNT LITERAL.......ESPECIALLY WHEN JESUS WAS ASKED TO EXPLAIN IT *WITHOUT* SYMBOLISM.

SHOW ME THE INSTANCE AND SCRIPTURE WHERE SOMEBODY ASKED JESUS TO DESCRIBE THIS WITHOUT SYMBOLISM? HOW WOULD THESE PEOPLE KNOW THIS PLACE ALREADY TO ASK JESUS TO EXPLAIN IT WITHOUT SYMBOLISM IF THEY DON'T KNOW IF THE PLACE EXISTS? IF YOU DON'T KNOW BY NOW, JESUS TAUgHT WITH PARABLES.

THEN YOU STRESS, "SO IF HELL/PLACE OF TORMENT IS *NOT* REAL THAT WOULD MEAN SEVERAL THINGS:

1.JESUS DIDNT KNOW WHAT THE HELL (NO PUN INTENDED) HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

2.NO PUNISHMENT FOR THE REBELS. THIS WOULD ALSO MEAN THAT ANGELS ARE GOING TO THE GRAVE (IF THEY ARE PUNISHED). SINCE ANGELS ARE BEINGS THAT CANT DIE THIS WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE

3.VIOLATE BOTH JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN "HELL" (BECAUSE THEY *BOTH* HAVE ONE BUT DIFFERENT CONCEPTS AND TIMELINES)

4.VIOLATE EVERY SECTARIAN WRITING KNOWN TO MAN.

5. MAKE THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE NEW TESTAMENT DOGMA/DOCTRINE FALSE.

6.WHEN JESUS *DIDNT* USE THE WORD HELL HE WAS DESCRIBING SOME MADE UP PLACE THAT HAD FIRE,WEEPING,GNASHING,TORMENTS ETC ETC ETC

7.EVEN IF A PERSON ELIMINATED THE WORD "HELL" YOU STILL HAVE OVER 100 EXAMPLES DESCRIBING A PLACE OF TORMENT,FIRE,WEEPING ETC ETC ETC

8.THE STORY OF LAZARUS WAS SYMBOLIC OF *NOTHING* "

#1) HOW SO?

#X) ANgELS CAN BE DESTROYED BY THE ALMIgHTY IF HE WISHED IT TO BE SO.

#3) THERE'S VARIOUS CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH SECTS, NOW PIK ONE. WHICH ONE TEACHES THE RIgHT TEACHINgS OF THE SCRIPTURES, FROM FRONT TO BAK, WORD FOR WORD, PHRASE FOR PHRASE, THEME FOR THEME? LOL

#F) DEFINE SECTARIAN. AND HOW DOES IT CONTRADICT?

#5) I WOULDN'T SAY THAT. IT MAKES THE DOCTRINES ADOPTED AFTER THE SCRIPTURES WERE WRITTEN FALSE. THE ORIgINAL CHRISTIANS DIDN'T TEACH OR ACCEPTED BELIEFS LIKE THE TRINITY AND HELL AS A PLACE OF TORMENT.

#5X1) LIKE I STRESSED, PARABLES.

#XX) LIKE I STRESSED, PARABEEZY'S

#8) LAZARUS WAS DEAD AND UNCONSCIOUS. HE WAS RESURECTED.

AND THEN YOU STRESS, "CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING?John 5:28,29: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

THAT ONE IS TO EASY. IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECT, I THINK THAT SCRIPTURE IS ON MY BROTHA'S(R.I.P O.g L.E.D) HEAD STONE. BUT IT IS BASICALLY SAYIN' THAT ON JUDgEMENT DAY YOU WILL EITHA BE SPARED AND LIVE FOREVA, OR YOU gONNA BE JUDgED BY YOUR ACTIONS AND BE DONE AWAY WITH FOREVA.

HERESY · Nov 21, 2002

hell is the grave. so when hell is toss into the lake of fire god is tossing your grave in the lake?????????

i can show you several instances. here is one. turn to matt 13:1-54.

1.in verse 3 he starts the parable.

2.in verse 10 his disciples ASK why he spoke in parables.

3.from verse 11 to verse 17 he explains WHY.

4.from verse 18 t 23 he EXPLAINS the MEANING of the parable.

5.from 24 to 30 he gives a parable of the WHEAT and the TARES.

6.in verse 36 his disciples as him to DECLARE (the word declare is phrazo or fravzw which is strongs word 5419: 1.to indicate plainly, make known, declare, whether by gesture or by writing or speaking, or in some other ways 2.to explain ) the parable of the wheat and tares.

7.he ANSWERS (HE DOES NOT TELL A PARABLE BUT ANSWERS) from verse 37-43.

so if they are ASKING him to explain his parable that leaves us with one of 2 things:

1.his answer is to be taken literal.

2.he answered them with ANOTHER parable.

another case of the disciples asking for him to explain is in matt 15:15-20.

HERES ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HIS DISCIPLES ASKING WHAT HE MEANT AND *WHO* THE PARABLES WERE FOR.

In Luke 8:9-10 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10 And he said, Unto *YOU* (DISCIPLES) it is **given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God**: but to *OTHERS* in ***parables***; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."

1.IF HELL IS NOT A LITERAL PLACE JESUS *DIDNT* KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. THAT WOULD MEAN THAT HE WAS TEACHING WITH 2 PARABLES AND NOT SPEAKING *ANYTHING* OF SUBSTANCE.

2.ANGELS ARE NOT BEINGS THAT DIE AND GO TO "THE GRAVE". IF HELL IS THE GRAVE *ONLY* THAT WOULD MEAN THAT ANGELS ARE CAPABLE OF DYING.

3.THE TRUE CHURCH. THE FOLLOW THE LAMB.

4.ANYTHING WRITTEN BY A SECT OR GROUP. IF HELL IS NOT REAL IT WOULD CONTRADICT MANY WRITINGS (INCLUDING ORTHODOX JEWISH WRITINGS)

5.SURE THEY ACCEPTED THOSE BELIEFS. BECAUSE JESUS PLAINLY TAUGHT THEM. WHY DO YOU THINK THE JEWS WANTED TO KILL HIM FOR SAYING "I AM"????? THEY KNEW ***EXACTLY*** WHAT HE MEANT. BY THE WAY THE *ORIGINAL* CHRISTIANS CAME IN ACTS. JESUS HAD ALREADY DIED,CAME BACK AND ASCENDED. THE ORIGINAL *FOLLOWERS* WERE CALLED "PEOPLE OF THE WAY" OR "FOLLOWERS OF THE WAY". AS SCRIPTURE HAS SHOWN HE *PLAINLY* SPOKE ABOUT HELL AND IT *WASNT* A PARABLE.

6.NOPE NOT A PARABLE. READ THIS POST AGAIN.

7." "

8.YOU HAVE *2* MEN NAMED LAZARUS. ONE WHO WAS RESURECTED AND THE ONE WHO WAS FOUND IN LUKE 16:19-ON OUT.

EXPLAIN THE STORY OF LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN. IF THIS IS A PARABLE KEEP IN MIND THAT IT IS THE *ONLY* PARABLE WHERE A ***PERSONAL*** NAME IS GIVEN.

IF THIS IS A PARABLE WHAT IS IT SYMBOLIC OF?

THOSE WHO ARE DONE AWAY WHERE ARE THEY DONE AWAY *AT*?????? WERE ARE THEY SENT OR DO THEY JUST VANISH AND CEASE?????

:h:

PS EXCUSE ALL TYPOS.

SACRIFICE · Nov 22, 2002

@ Heresy

That's some of the same points I was talking bout, Why would we need Jesus if their wasn't a real threat. Your right, Hell is for the rebels of Heaven (The angels who turned against God and Lucifer), but we're not free from it, are we?...

I was babtised as symbolism, your also right about that too. Its just to represent thenew life you've chosen and that your old spirit has been washed away...

@ EDJ
I see what your saying, it isn't literal. I did some reading and the Bible says in Psalms 49:11 "Their Tombs will remain their houses forever, their dwellings for endless generations though they had named land after themselves". it referes it to being wholly dead, meaning cease to exist.

But the bible also says that " if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an EXAMPLE of what's going to happen to the ungodly"
2 Peter 2:6

so this tells me that it's a place of fire and burning by example set in Sodom and Gomorrah. this is why I belive it's torment rather than a spiritual death...

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 22, 2002

@Heresy

first off, what is YHWH?
I have recently began reading on the Qabalah. So, I am somewhat familiar with that. You should read the Kybalion. Its pure and simple that, "ALL is mind". An absolute place of eternal torment goes against the reality of God. It is a superstitious idea. There is no room within a being of infinity for an eternal "limitation". And there is nothing outside God! If we look at it in another perspective, an eternal torment may exist in a sense. But, only if we disregard it to an individual eternal torment. Meaning that instead of a man who goes to this place of torment to "burn" eternally, This place (or state of mind; because all is a state of mind) exists eternally but those subject to it do not exist eternally within it. In a constant state of growth we go through limitation and we overcome these limitations. We go through certain amounts of suffering and we overcome them to be better for it. This new idea states that perhaps hell is merely the "negative" side of an eternal growth, which of course must exist eternally as does this growing. There's another perspective on the concept of hell. Before any of us think we know anything absolute, remember we only see the absolute from a relative perspective because we, in fact, aren't the absolute. This is why there is an eternal growing. Always keep your mind open...................................WUN

EDJ · Nov 22, 2002

YHWH ARE FOUR CONSONANTS TRANSLATED FROM HEBREW OF THE TETRAMMATRON, WHICH IS (gOD'S) NAME.

HERESY,

MAN, LET ME gET BAK AT YOU ON THIS CAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION I WANT TO CROSS REFERENCE AND THIS LIBRARY COMPUTER ALLOWS ONLY ONE HOUR FOR ME TO JUST LOOK AT MY E-MAIL AND CHEK MESSAgES. SO I'LL COME BAK TO THIS.

AND SACRIFICE,
(gOD) MADE AN EXAMPLE OF SODOM AND gOMORRAH BY DESTROYIN' THEM. MEANIN' HE WILL DESTROY THOSE WHO DON'T ADHERE TO HIS SIDE. THAT DON'T MEAN HE gONNA BURN US. DID SODOM AND gOMORAH BURN FOREVA?

HERESY · Nov 22, 2002

1. if a place of torment is not literal than the BIBLE is not literal (in any aspect).

2.i see nothing in the grammer and the way the scriptures are worded to denote a symbolic hell. symbolic of what?

3.if hell or a place of torment is not real YESHUA must have been on some SERIOUS herb. whats the use of preaching about a symbolic hell?

4.if hell is symbolic that would mean that YESHUA explained a PARABLE with a PARABLE (which would include more symbolism). this would leave the person who heard it (in our case read it) in a state of confusion.

5.1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in *prison*. if this is not literal it is symbolic of what? cupcakes and a party?

6.to imply that hell or a place of punishment is not real is APOSTATE and would mean several things:

a) it would mean that GOD does NOT *require* PAYMENT for sins (this is contrary to old and new testament scriptures)

b)removes the FEAR of GOD "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather be afraid of the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell"(Matthew 10:28).

c)would make 2 Peter 2:4 symbolic but no answer or clue as to what the symbolism means.

d)it would mean that when YESHUA never casted out demons and that matt 8:28-34 never happened.

e)would violate the jewish views of paradise and hell.

f) would mean that YESHUA was placed in the ground or earth (he was placed in a tomb).

7. queber is the CORRECT word used for GRAVE (earth/dirt or being burried in the ground).

8.SHEOL is the place for departed spirits.

9.if a place of punishment (hell) is not real that would mean that revelation 20:13, 14 is symbolic and has no explanation. it would mean that hell is not cast into "the lake of fire".

10.if no hell or place of torment or lake of fire exists YESHUA had no mission.

11.if an eternal place of destruction,torment etc etc does not exist why is "aionios" used?

12.if a place of torment is a supertisous idea that would mean that YESHUA preached superstition.
---------------------------------------------------
@ n9newunsixx5150

1.because HERESY has NOT stated that he hasnt read the Kybalion doesnt mean that he has OR hasnt read it. i thank you for the reference and encouragment to read but next time maybe you should ask if i have read it before you refer it to me.

2.heresy does not partake in jewish mysticism.

3.heresy does not adhere to hermatic philosophy.

4.heresy does not practice occult and essoteric teachings.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

:H:

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 23, 2002

@HERESY

I actually just explained "hell" in a way that goes with the original idea of it. The only change I made was the old thought of the individual suffering the torment of hell eternally. instead its this "hell" that is eternal, but not the one suffering in it. There are some Christians who have reason to believe, based on their interpretation of the bible, that one does not burn eternally. But, burns til they are no more. I have family who is 7th day adventist, this is what they believe. Your interpretation is as good as anyone else's. Of course everybody thinks they know it better than the next man. If you can't transcend opposites you will be subject to their eternal effect. In essence, this is hell. Of course hell is to a much more severe degree.
Also, by quoting the bible and then not explaining how or why you believe in that specific quotation tells me that you just take it for granted. I could sit here and quote "Alice In Wonderland" without explaining myself. I could imply that this book has authority in it and it needs no explanation. Its exactly the same! If you really have good reason to take what you read the way you do then explain. If your logic is "I believe in the bible because its the word of God", and then I ask how you know it is the word of God, and you answer, "because it says in the bible". Then you are doing what is called circular reasoning. Anyone can quote a book, my friend. Don't deny the God-given mind. You live in an ever-changing reality where all human perceptions are ultimately relative. Its not that our perceptions are wrong, its that we must constantly change and grow our perceptions. The bible obviously can be interpreted in various ways. Because it has been interpreted in various ways. A lot of the bible rests on objective fact but a lot of it is sentimentality. I am not implying that because of this sentimentality it is wrong. I am just saying that they add words and ideas to manifest either the greatness or severity of heaven or hell. They use added effect. In essence there is nothing wrong with it. It is important that we can distinguish between the absolute and relative points, though. Yet, without truly isolating the two from each other in mind. You believe in one God. How can you believe in a true duality? I am very interested in reading on this YHWH. If you can tell me what books I need to pick up that would be very helpful. Thank you.......................................WUN

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 23, 2002

@HERESY

I never said hell was symbolic for anything, by the way. The basic concept is there. It makes sense. I am not preaching opposite of you. I am merely attempting to show new perspectives on old conceptions. This is, in our nature, truth. We must grow! We will grow! You cannot deny this. You are doing it now.

HERESY · Nov 23, 2002

actually the old jewish thought was that a person went to this place for 12 months to be "PURGED".

see thats exactly MY point. we have all these different
interpretations,versions,doctrines,views etc etc etc because we dont let the word of god be true. 7th day adventist and j.w. dont believe in a burning forever. if thats what they believe thats on them.

when its coming from the holy spirit its the BEST.

everything i know was taught to me. as i have said before lean to GOD.

1.i have went over the subject of HELL before. explained it, gave translations of the words,explained the jewish views of the afterlife etc etc etc.

2.i dont do it NOW because its OLD. i have been on this site for OVER a year and i suggest that you use the SEARCH ENGINE to find the info. if you cannot find the info ask the web master for access to the old servers.

3.because i havent shared my beliefs with YOU doesnt mean that i take anything for granted. it doesnt mean that i havent explained it to others. in fact from my assessment it is YOU who take the teachings of yeshua for granted by denying a literal hell.

4.everything i typed was self explanitory. i explained to edj and to everyone else.

5.i am explaining hell based on the BIBLE. you are explaining hell based on WHAT?

i would pray for you.

see points 1-5. i HAVE explained it before. typed out the longest threads possible. i WONT go over it again. if you missed it search the archives. by the way thats not how i would answer you. stop assuming things.

i again direct you to points 1-5. not only that but sacrifice has also stated that he gets what i am talking about. edj WILL get it sooner or later.

no our perceptions are wrong. just ask the jews who are still waiting on the FIRST messiah.

which is why i dirct people to do two things.

1.ask the holy spirit for help and study/research on your own.

2.study/research on your own and ask the holy spirit for help.

we DONT receive answers because we DONT ask for them. we PERISH because we lack knowledge. we DONT study to show ourselves approved. we have NO faith because we dont HEAR.

YOU COME TO THIS ASSESSMENT BASED ON RESEARCH OF THE GREEK,HEBREW, LATIN LANGUAGE? YOU COME TO THIS OPINION BASED ON RESEARCH OF A VULGATE? TEXTUS RECEPTUS (minor)? PSEUDEPIGRAPHA? BECAUSE YOU ARE A STUDENT OF TORAH AND TALMUD?

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IN: 1 JOHN 5:7

THE TORAH.

I WOULD RATHER HAVE GODS PERSPECTIVE.

**KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH THE BIBLE AND ITS VERSION OF HELL.**

:h:

EDJ · Nov 23, 2002

HERESY YOU STRESSED, "i again direct you to points 1-5. not only that but sacrifice has also stated that he gets what i am talking about. edj WILL get it sooner or later."

WHAT WILL I gET?

HERESY · Nov 23, 2002

^^^ the truth

EDJ · Nov 23, 2002

I ALREADY KNOW IT PLAYA. AND HELL BEIN' AN ACTUAL PLACE OF TORMENT AIN'T CUTTIN' IT. THAT gOES WITH POPULAR CHURCH DOgMA.

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 23, 2002

@HERESY

quote:
actually the old jewish thought was that a person went to this place for 12 months to be "PURGED".

wow, you learn something new everyday!

quote:
when its coming from the holy spirit its the BEST.

How do you know your interpretation and only yours is coming from the holy spirit?

quote:
everything i know was taught to me. as i have said before lean to GOD.

Taught by who?

quote:
5.i am explaining hell based on the BIBLE. you are explaining hell based on WHAT?

Based on a reality that doesn't go against the nature of God!! And, as I have said before, there are different interpretations of what the bible means by hell. I am basing a supposed eternal existence, hell, on more than just one concept. It doesn't matter what you think, to attempt to conform this eternal existence within the boundaries of one foolish human concept gives you or your beliefs no authority.

quote:
no our perceptions are wrong. just ask the jews who are still waiting on the FIRST messiah.

OK then. Your perceptions are wrong also. You aren't special! You develop your perceptions on what you read and you said perceptions were wrong. You just fell into your own trap. THERE IS NOTHING OUTSIDE PERCEPTION. all human perception is relative so in a sense it is wrong. But that STILL doesn't give you authority. Because your perceptions are also relative. The example of the jews still waiting on a messiah doesn't show that all perceptions are wrong.

quote:
1.ask the holy spirit for help and study/research on your own.

2.study/research on your own and ask the holy spirit for help.

I have been doing this. Accept that perhaps my pathway is slightly different from yours.

quote:
we DONT receive answers because we DONT ask for them. we PERISH because we lack knowledge. we DONT study to show ourselves approved. we have NO faith because we dont HEAR.

I receive answers. I study to know. My faith is strong!

quote:
YOU COME TO THIS ASSESSMENT BASED ON RESEARCH OF THE GREEK,HEBREW, LATIN LANGUAGE? YOU COME TO THIS OPINION BASED ON RESEARCH OF A VULGATE? TEXTUS RECEPTUS (minor)? PSEUDEPIGRAPHA? BECAUSE YOU ARE A STUDENT OF TORAH AND TALMUD?

ok. Until I learn these words, english please. vulgate? textus receptus? pseudepigrapha?? Torah and Talmud?

quote:
I WOULD RATHER HAVE GODS PERSPECTIVE.

you will never truly have God's perspective. God is infinite. You will never encompass infinity in its entirety all at once. This is the very nature of our growing INTO infinity. Eternally must we grow into that which has no boundaries. You must agree with that. Either you believe that you do have the "infinite perspective" and in this case, you must think you're God or you must have under-estimated the divine. Or you know you don't truly have God's perspective and you learn to realize that all perspectives known to man are WRONG. Just like you said.

quote:

**KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH THE BIBLE AND ITS VERSION OF HELL.**

Once again....here you are going through the bible reading all the passages about "hell". YOU CREATE YOUR OWN PERCEPTIONS based on what you read. Hence, you do not know the bible's version of hell. You only know your own interpretation of the bible's version of hell. This is your perception. No where does this make you self righteous. It doesn't make your idea absolute by knowing it in Greek or Hebrew. All human language is based on a limited mind. You may become closer to the original thought behind the words. But, then you never are really sure. And we are forgetting the most important point: THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MEN. As was "Alice In Wonderland".

I have to apologize now.......
I do not mean to be demeaning to the bible. I feel, in essence, it has the greatest of teachings within it. I am merely making a point. How do you know the bible is absolute, at least literally? And if you answer that question by quoting the bible, then you would be doing exactly what I cautioned you about before. Circular reasoning. Give me some intelligent thought. Also I have some personal questions, if you don't mind:
What is your purpose in life?
What do you believe one needs to do to get saved?
Who is your favorite rapper?

T.A.GUERRERO · Nov 23, 2002

EDJ said:

lol

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 23, 2002

Guerrero,
you got something to say on the subject go ahead. We're having a legit conversation, homie. Go ahead and put in your 2 cents...........

HERESY · Nov 24, 2002

@edj continue to be blind. as i have typed b4 if hell is not literal NOTHING jesus said was literal. you CANT even comment on what i typed to you. if hell is not real/literal (according to the bible) that would mean:

jesus teached parables and explained the parables with MORE parables (lol!)

would mean that when jesus cast out demons and they begged not to be TORMENTED that it was symbolic (lol!)

YOU ASKED ME A QUESTION. I GAVE YOU THE ANSWER. END OF DISCUSSION FOR YOU.

@n9newunsixx5150

yep.

someone elses might be coming from the holy spirit. someone else might come from shatan. while someone elses might come from a man. how do you know where its coming from? you SPEAK and you TEST the spirits (or breath)

by the SPIRIT.

THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL DOCTRINE. THIS IS YOUR OWN DOCTRINE. WHAT YOU ARE TYPING IS NOT BASED ON GOD. IF IT WERE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT YHWH REQUIRES *PAYMENT* FOR SINS. SOMETHING THAT *YOU* AND EDJ KEEP AVOIDING.

IF YOU WOULD STUDY THE WORDS OR ****READ**** WHAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY TYPED AND ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT FOR INSIGHT YOU WOULD KNOW THE CONCEPT OF HELL.

SO WHAT ARE THESE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF HELL AND ARE THEY BASED ON THE GREEK OR HEBREW LANGUAGE?

IT WOULD BE LOGICAL TO BASE IT ON THE BIBLE BECAUSE:

a) we are dealing with JUDAS (who is mentioned in the bible)

b) hell (according to the bible)

c) it is what JESUS himself preached.

from what i gather the person who started this thread based it on the bible,its concept of hell and judas. if you leave these confines you are straying away from the source material (which would be the bible)

NOT TRUE MY BLIND FRIEND. WHAT I PERCEIVE AND WHAT I KNOW HAS BEEN REVEALED TO ME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. NOT ME READING SOMETHING AND DRAWING MY OWN CONCLUSION. [/QUOTE]

what trap? all i did was quote what YOU typed and answered.

no i have authority and it IS given to me from YHWH. as i have told you before NOTHING i have learned is on MY own accord.

nor did i imply that it was to show that all perceptions are wrong. it was merely an example. one example of MANY. as i have said before dont lean on YOUR understanding. LEAN ON THE HOLY SPIRIT AND ALLOW THE SPIRIT TO TEACH.

oh i forgot about this

the belief is the SAME BELIEF (as i have shown) that the LORD HIMSELF PREACHED. SO IF HE IS THE AUTHORITY AND I HOLD THOSE SAME VIEWS I HAVE THE SAME AUTHORITY.

DOESNT SEEM LIKE IT.

LOOK MAN. I HAVE TOLD PEOPLE ON THIS SITE MANY TIMES THAT I COULD CARE LESS IN WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN. IF YOUR PATH CONSIST OF WALKING IN CIRCLES,DRINKING A MILK SHAKE AND READING SPIDERMAN COMICS THATS ON *YOU*. IT DOESNT HURT ME IN ANY WAY. MY PATHWAY IS THE WAY OF GOD. WALKING ACCORDING TO HIS WILL. NOT BEING CONTRARY TO WHAT HE HAS SPOKEN.

LOOK EM UP.

NOT TRUE.

I AGREE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS MAN. YOU ARE CONSTANTLY DOING THAT. I DO NOT HAVE THE ATTRIBUTES OF YHWH (ATTRIBUTES THAT MAKE HIM A DIETY). YOU HAVE UNDERESITIMATED THE DIVINE NOT ME. I AM STICKING WITH THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA. YOU ARE COMING WITH SOMETHING THATS LEFT FIELD.

ONCE YOUR ***SPIRITUAL*** EYES ARE OPENED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PERCEIVE AS YHWH. SIMILIAR TO THE GARDEN OF EDEN (YOU WILL BE LIKE GOD ETC ETC ETC).

1.ANYTHING THAT IS CONTRARY TO YHWH IS WRONG. YESHUA STATED THAT HE WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO YHWH. ANYTHING CONTRARY TO THAT WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO SEE AS YESHUA. IF YOU SEE AS YESHUA. YOU SEE THE FATHER. YOU WILL SEE HOW HE SEES.

2.I NEVER SAID ALL PERSPECTIVES KNOWN TO MAN ARE WRONG. *STOP* MISQUOTING ME. YOU SEEM TO MAKE IT A HABIT. THE PERSPECTIVE OF YHWH IS KNOWN TO MAN AND IT ISNT WRONG. PLEASE ****READ**** INSTEAD OF TYPING INSANE BABEL AND RHETORIC. THIS IS WHAT I TYPED *no our perceptions are wrong.* CLEARLY YOU ARE TAKING THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT AND TWISTING THEM. PLEASE STOP.

REFER TO POINT NUMBER 1.

1.AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE I AM NOT LEANING TO MY OWN UNDERSTANDING. I AM LEANING ON YWHW TO REVEAL TRUTH. REVEAL ANSWERS AND KNOWLEDGE.

2.YESHUA HIMSELF PREACHED ABOUT HELL AS A PLACE OF TORMENT. THIS IS *HIS* PERCEPTION. I SEE AS HE SEES. THIS IS MY INTERPRETATION.

3.DENYING A LITERAL HELL WOULD BE DENYING THAT GOD REQUIRES *ETERNAL* PUNISHMENT FOR SIN. THIS WOULD BE CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD.

WHEN DID I SAY THAT IT MADE ME RIGHTEOUS? I AM A SINNER SAVED BY THE GRACE OF YHWH. I SEEK HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HIS WAYS.

BASICALLY IM GOING TO TELL *YOU* THIS. YOU ARE FORMING YOUR OPINION ON HELL BASED ON YOUR OWN LOGIC. YOU ARE NOT BASING IT ON THE LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE NOR OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

YOU ARE TRYING TO EXPLAIN A BIBLICAL CONCEPT ****WITHOUT*** PROPER KNOWLEDGE OF THE WORDS,HOW THEY ARE USED,WHERE THEY ARE USED ETC ETC ETC

THATS LIKE A PROSECUTER TRYING TO EXPLAIN A MURDER WITHOUT A BODY,WITHOUT A BLOODY KNIFE,WITHOUT A FINGER PRINT AND WITHOUT A SUSPECT........

IF HE DOES NOT HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE CRIME, A MOTIVE,DNA EVIDENCE ETC ETC ETC HE HAS ****NOTHING****. YOU ARE THE PROSECUTER.

HUMAN LANGUAGE IS THE CREATION OF YHWH. NOT *MAN*.

HOW AM I NOT SURE? I HAVE STUDIED. YOU HAVENT. THESE WORDS HAVE BEEN *DOCUMENTED*. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

1.WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT THE BIBLE BEING WRITTEN BY MEN?

2.WHO ARE THESE MEN AND WHERE DID THEY LIVE, WHEN DID THEY DIE?

WHAT POINT ARE YOU MAKING? I SEE USELESS JARGON.

THIS WILL BE THE *LAST* TIME I RESPOND TO YOU BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU WANT TO DEBATE THE WORD OF GOD.

1.WHEN YOU ****LEARN**** THE LANGUAGES YOU WILL COME TO KNOWLEDGE ON WHAT WORDS ARE USED,HOW THEY ARE USED,IF THEY ARE FEMININE OR MASCULINE,HOW THEY ARE ARRANGED ETC ETC ETC. IT WILL BE ****EASY**** FOR YOU TO FIND CLAUSES,BREAK POINTS ETC ETC ETC.

2.ESCHATOLOGY.

3.JESUS IS CASTING OUT DEMONS AND THEY ASK ABOUT BEING TORMENTED. ANY PERSON WITH A BRAIN CAN READ THIS AND DISCERN THAT THIS IS TO BE TAKEN LITERAL. SINCE THIS IS LITERAL ONE MUST ASK SEVERAL QUESTIONS:

a)WHAT IS TORMENT?

b)WHO IS BEING TORMENTED?

c)WHY ARE THEY BEING TORMENTED?

d)WHERE IS THIS TORMENT TAKING PLACE?

e)WHEN WILL IT TAKE PLACE?

4.JESUS SPOKE TO IN PARABLES BUT EXPLAINED THEM TO HIS DISCIPLES ***WITHOUT*** THE USE OF PARABLES. IF THE EXPLANATION IS NOT TO BE TAKEN AS LITERAL WHAT IS IT TO BE TAKEN AS?

5.THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS SHOWN THAT THE BIBLE IS TO BE TAKEN LITERAL (THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT).

GOD.

GOD SAVES.

GOD.

:H:

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 24, 2002

@HERESY

quote:
THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL DOCTRINE. THIS IS YOUR OWN DOCTRINE. WHAT YOU ARE TYPING IS NOT BASED ON GOD. IF IT WERE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT YHWH REQUIRES *PAYMENT* FOR SINS. SOMETHING THAT *YOU* AND EDJ KEEP AVOIDING.

It isn't my doctrine. It's my growing understanding. What you describe as "payment" for our sins is referred to as karmic law or the law of cause and effect in other doctrines. I understand this law. To think of it as an angry God who wishes to punish is putting human emotion into an absolute being. I am not stating that you do this, but many do.

quote:
IT WOULD BE LOGICAL TO BASE IT ON THE BIBLE BECAUSE:

a) we are dealing with JUDAS (who is mentioned in the bible)

b) hell (according to the bible)

c) it is what JESUS himself preached.

from what i gather the person who started this thread based it on the bible,its concept of hell and judas. if you leave these confines you are straying away from the source material (which would be the bible)

No. What you think as the bible's concept of hell is really only your interpretation. You cannot escape the fact that you see only through your own perception. And the Holy Spirit only works through you and your understanding. So don't try to justify yourself by saying the Holy Spirit told you. If the Holy Spirit told you, then it was told to you through your own mind. If you have closed your mind to more than one interpretation of biblical concepts you have inhibited the pathway for the Holy Spirit to work through you and help you to grow. This does not have to be written in any doctrine. It comes directly from God to me. If you do not know the nature of spirit, I suggest you re-evaluate it. Let me give you a start: The spirit cannot be bound by your single minded perceptions and interpretations. In order for you to grow spiritually you must make way for more than your own single concepts. This is your vain philosophy of man, not of God.

quote:
NOT TRUE MY BLIND FRIEND. WHAT I PERCEIVE AND WHAT I KNOW HAS BEEN REVEALED TO ME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. NOT ME READING SOMETHING AND DRAWING MY OWN CONCLUSION. [/QUOTE] Quote:

What you know has been perceived through you. Make no distinguishment between the 2. Holy Spirit works through you, stop inhibiting its path with your single conceptions.

quote:
BASICALLY IM GOING TO TELL *YOU* THIS. YOU ARE FORMING YOUR OPINION ON HELL BASED ON YOUR OWN LOGIC. YOU ARE NOT BASING IT ON THE LANGUAGE OF THE BIBLE NOR OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

As you are forming your opinion of hell. Or, if you like it better, having the holy spirit work through you to give you your opinion.

quote:
I AGREE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

then why are you preventing it from working through your own being?

quote:
HUMAN LANGUAGE IS THE CREATION OF YHWH. NOT *MAN*.

ok, ultimately everything was created by God (YHWH).

quote:
WHAT POINT ARE YOU MAKING? I SEE USELESS JARGON.

I'm sorry you can't grasp more than what you have been limited to. YHWH wishes for your freedom. Free your mind.

quote:
THIS WILL BE THE *LAST* TIME I RESPOND TO YOU BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU WANT TO DEBATE THE WORD OF GOD.

If you wish not to reply, thats ok. I am not debating anything. If I was, it would be your own perceptions, not the word.

Also, I never said I didnt believe in demons. You made that assumption. I never said I didn't believe in Hell. You also made that assumption.

HERESY · Nov 24, 2002

1.YHWH IS ***HOLY***. WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT HE REQUIRES WHEN ONE SINS AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE SINS.

2.YHWH IS CAPABLE OF EMOTIONS. WE ARE MADE IN TEH IMAGE OF HIM. IN **MANY** INSTANCES HIS ANGER IS DIRECTED AT CERTAIN PEOPLE.

AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE (AND SHOWN) JESUS PREACHED A LITERAL HELL. WHEN YOU TAKE THE BIBLE AND SHOW THAT NO HELL EXISTS,THAT NO PLACE OF ETERNAL DAMNATION EXIST AND THAT YHWH DOES NOT REQUIRE PAYMENT FOR SIN YOU WILL HAVE PROVEN A POINT.

the HOLY SPIRIT WORKS THROUGH ALL AND TEACHES ALL WHO *SEEK*. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH ME. YOU ARE DEALING WITH YHWH AND WHAT YESHUA PREACHED. NOT HERESY OR THE VIEW OF HERESY.

I AM JUSTIFIED THROUGH YESHUA. BY KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. WHEN I SAY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT TOLD ME I AM JUSTIFIED BECAUSE I DONT TESTIFY OF ME. I TESTIFY OF THE ONE WHO SENT ME AND THE ONE WHO TOLD ME. I DONT BEAR RECORD OF HERESY. I BEAR THE RECORD OF JAH. YOU ARE IN ERROR.

HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DONT KNOW WHAT RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH YHWH AND HOW HE MANIFESTS HIS TRUTH TO ME. IT COULD BE THROUGH AN AUDIBLE VOICE. IT COULD BE THROUGH WATCHING THE LEAVES BLOW IN THE WIND. FAITH COMES BY **HEARING**. REMEMBER THAT. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ON WHAT GOD DOES AND HOW HE TALKS TO ME.

THIS IS ***MY*** POINT ***YOU*** HAVE ****NOT**** STUDIED THE JEWISH OR BIBLICAL CONCEPT OF HELL. YOU HAVENT DONE IT YET YOU ARE TELLING WHAT ***YOU*** THINK HELL IS. I ***HAVE*** STUDIED THE MATERIAL. I *HAVE* STUDIED THE ISLAM VERSION OF HELL AND JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER VERSION OF HELL KNOWN TO MAN.

THE MAIN THING IS YHWH HAS SHOWN ME WHICH VERSION IS CORRECT. WHICH VERSION IS HIS. WHICH PATH IS HIS.

STOP WITH THE GNOSTIC DOCTRINE.

SEE THE ABOVE.

YOU HOLD THE DOCTRINES OF DEVILS AND BAAL. THE HOLY SPIRIT NOT ONLY WORKS THROUGH ME BUT IT DWELLS IN ME AND SPEAKS. YOU ARE IN ERROR. SINGLE MIND. SINGLE GOD. HIS VIEWS. HIS WAYS. HIS COMMANDMENTS HIS DECREE. YOU ARE IN ERROR.

RE READ THE LAST POST AND READ THIS ONE ALSO.

IM NOT. WHICH IS WHY I BEAR FRUIT. WHICH IS WHY I AM CAPABLE OF DISCERNMENT. STOP ASSUMING.

IF YOU SAY SO.

YOUR WORDS DONT PROFIT MY SPIRIT. EVERYTHING YOU ARE TYPING IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ENCOUNTERED BEFORE. ITS A GNOSTIC DOCTRINE MIXED WITH A LIL BIT OF THIS, MIXED WITH A WHOLE LOT OF THAT.......

I DONT WANT TO REPLY TO YOU. IN FACT IF IT WAS UP TO ME YOU WOULD BE ON IGNORE. HOWEVER THE SPIRIT HAS NOT TOLD ME TO DUST MY FEET SO I HAVE TO CONTINUE. WHEN I AM TOLD TO NO LONGER CAST MY PEARLS TO THE SWINE I WONT.

WHEN WILL YOU ***STOP*** ASSUMING THINGS,MISQUOTING ME OR ACCUSING ME OF DOING THINGS I HAVE NOT DONE???? NOT ****ONCE**** HAVE I IMPLIED THAT YOU DO OR DONT BELIEVE IN DEMONS. LOOK FOR NOW ON IF YOU ARE ***NOT*** GOING TO ***READ*** WHAT I TYPE DONT REPLY TO ME. I AM CONSTANTLY ASKING YOU TO STOP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. YOU ARE PICKING WHAT YOU WANT TO PICK,DANCING AROUND QUESTIONS AND MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS. I HAVE ANSWERED WHAT YOU WANTED ME TO ANSWER YET YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED ***ANYTHING*** I ASKED ***YOU***. LET YHWH BE TRUE AND MAN A LIAR. YOU ARE A LIAR AND ACCUSE WITHOUT PROOF OR REASON.

***YOU*** DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE ***BIBLICAL*** VERSION OF HELL. YOU DO **NOT** BELIEVE WHAT YESHUA PREACHED (IN REGARDS TO HELL). WHAT YESHUA PREACHED IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT. WHAT DID YESHUA PREACH? A LITERAL HELL. HERE IS WHAT YOU HAVE SAID:

THIS CONTRADICTS THE BIBLE AND THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA. THE HOLY SPIRIT AGREES WITH YESHUA.

THIS CONTRADICTS THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA.

THIS CONTRADICTS THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA.

AS I HAVE TYPED BEFORE YOU ARE TRYING TO EXPLAIN A BIBLICAL CONCEPT ****WITHOUT*** PROPER KNOWLEDGE OF THE WORDS,HOW THEY ARE USED,WHERE THEY ARE USED ETC ETC ETC

YOU SAID THE FOLLOWING:

1.YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE ***ORIGINAL*** IDEA OF HELL IS. PLEASE DO SO.

2.YOU ARE COMING WITH THE DOCTRINE OF ANOTHER AND NOT THE DOCTRINE OF YESHUA. IF YOU CAME WITH HIS DOCTRINE YOU WOULD ***NOT*** NEED TO ***CHANGE*** ANYTHING!!!!! THIS IS WHAT YOU FAIL TO GRASP. YOU ARE CHANGING THINGS,COMING WITH FALSE DOCTRINE,CLAIMING TO BE LEARNED OF THE SPIRIT BUT CONTRADICTING THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA.

IF HELL IS NOT A LITERAL PLACE OF TORMENT EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING: IN MATT 8:29 JESUS IS CASTING OUT DEMONS AND THEY ASK ABOUT BEING TORMENTED.

a)WHAT IS TORMENT?

b)WHO WILL BE TORMENTED?

c)WHY ARE THEY BEING TORMENTED?

d)WHERE WILL THIS TORMENT TAKE PLACE?

e)WHEN WILL IT TAKE PLACE?

f)HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE PLACE?

PLEASE SHOW THE BOARD HOW HELL OR A PLACE OF TORMENT IS NOT ETERNAL OR LITERAL BASED ON JESUS CASTING OUT THE DEMONS.

NOT ONLY THAT BUT EXPLAIN WHY JESUS EXPLAINS THE PARABLE OF MATT 13: 24-30 WITH MATT 13:37-42?

IF MATT 13: 24-30 IS SYMBOLIC, IS THE ANSWER TO ITS SYMBOLISM MATT 13 37-42? IF THAT IS THE ANSWER HOW CAN ONE NOT TAKE IT LITERALLY?

IF ONE DOESNT TAKE IT LITERALLY THAT WOULD MEAN THAT JESUS EXPLAINED A PARABLE WITH ANOTHER PARABLE.

PLEASE ANSWER.

:h:

n9newunsixx5150 · Nov 24, 2002

quote:
HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DONT KNOW WHAT RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH YHWH AND HOW HE MANIFESTS HIS TRUTH TO ME. IT COULD BE THROUGH AN AUDIBLE VOICE. IT COULD BE THROUGH WATCHING THE LEAVES BLOW IN THE WIND. FAITH COMES BY **HEARING**. REMEMBER THAT. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ON WHAT GOD DOES AND HOW HE TALKS TO ME.

By mind do you hear audible voice. By mind do you watch the leaves blow in the wind. By mind do you hear.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
YOU ARE IN ERROR. SINGLE MIND. SINGLE GOD. HIS VIEWS. HIS WAYS. HIS COMMANDMENTS HIS DECREE. YOU ARE IN ERROR.

Yes, there is one mind. There is one God. But his views are greater than your single conception of what you interpret in the bible. Thats all I'm saying.
Also, If my doctrine is of devils then how come it agrees with you, but merely puts it in another perspective. That's right, HERESY. I agree with you on many of these points. Thank you for clarifying some of them for me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
IF YOU SAY SO.

are you implying that not everything was created by God? Please explain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
I DONT WANT TO REPLY TO YOU. IN FACT IF IT WAS UP TO ME YOU WOULD BE ON IGNORE. HOWEVER THE SPIRIT HAS NOT TOLD ME TO DUST MY FEET SO I HAVE TO CONTINUE. WHEN I AM TOLD TO NO LONGER CAST MY PEARLS TO THE SWINE I WONT.

Those are strong words, HERESY. and negative too. There is nothing really left to teach. I already agree with you as you do with me. Either you will see that sooner...... or later. Thank you for being concerned though. It isn't that I disagree with you. Its that you think you disagree with me. But, I have confessed of Christ in the flesh. I may not have quite an extensive knowledge on the bible as you, but thank you for inspiring me to take that step.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
WHEN WILL YOU ***STOP*** ASSUMING THINGS,MISQUOTING ME OR ACCUSING ME OF DOING THINGS I HAVE NOT DONE???? NOT ****ONCE**** HAVE I IMPLIED THAT YOU DO OR DONT BELIEVE IN DEMONS. LOOK FOR NOW ON IF YOU ARE ***NOT*** GOING TO ***READ*** WHAT I TYPE DONT REPLY TO ME. I AM CONSTANTLY ASKING YOU TO STOP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. YOU ARE PICKING WHAT YOU WANT TO PICK,DANCING AROUND QUESTIONS AND MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS. I HAVE ANSWERED WHAT YOU WANTED ME TO ANSWER YET YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED ***ANYTHING*** I ASKED ***YOU***. LET YHWH BE TRUE AND MAN A LIAR. YOU ARE A LIAR AND ACCUSE WITHOUT PROOF OR REASON.

Back in one of your messages you wrote regarding a "literal hell" you made a quote about demons. I just wanted to let you know that I never denied that. Don't get so upset.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
AS I HAVE TYPED BEFORE YOU ARE TRYING TO EXPLAIN A BIBLICAL CONCEPT ****WITHOUT*** PROPER KNOWLEDGE OF THE WORDS,HOW THEY ARE USED,WHERE THEY ARE USED ETC ETC ETC

well i am going to look into that, my friend. This is why I wish you would explain some of these things to me, otherwise we can't really have a discussion on the same level. Its gonna take me a while to get to it all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
IF HELL IS NOT A LITERAL PLACE OF TORMENT EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING: IN MATT 8:29 JESUS IS CASTING OUT DEMONS AND THEY ASK ABOUT BEING TORMENTED.

a)WHAT IS TORMENT?

b)WHO WILL BE TORMENTED?

c)WHY ARE THEY BEING TORMENTED?

d)WHERE WILL THIS TORMENT TAKE PLACE?

e)WHEN WILL IT TAKE PLACE?

f)HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE PLACE?

PLEASE SHOW THE BOARD HOW HELL OR A PLACE OF TORMENT IS NOT ETERNAL OR LITERAL BASED ON JESUS CASTING OUT THE DEMONS.

It can be seen by the spiritual eye in many ways. Literal or not doesn't matter anymore to me. I will go back on my words now to say that it very well could be a literal place. How long we are tormented is not eternal. But the torment is. I believe in this. I will do an extensive study of the bible. I highly doubt this idea will change.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as your bible excerpts. I will definitely have to get back with you on that. In the beginning I wasn't conceiving of a biblical description. perhaps I do not have a full understanding, I will admit that. But, I gaurantee that much of what I know now will not be disregarded once I acquire a better understanding. Words seem to just get in the way. There is no longer reason to explain my views. There is much misunderstanding between us. It is almost paradoxical how I say one thing and you say another, yet I agree with you. I see what you mean. I just wish you could see what I mean. If my words seem to go against YHWH, try to see that it is just another level of understanding. We are on the same path, I believe this very strongly. I am just applying that which is foreign to the bible unto the bible. I don't wish to rip away from its teaching. God gave me this mind and all its wonders. I feel I have grown greatly because of the diversity of beliefs I have studied. God is in my life more than ever.

HERESY · Nov 25, 2002

once again FAITH COMES BY **HEARING**. one likeness,one mind, one voice,one spirit. when you grasp this concept you will know the truth.

I AM CONSTANTLY TYPING THAT ONE IS TO **NOT** LEAN ON HIS OWN UNDERSTANDING OR WISDOM. ONE IS TO ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT TO TEACH AND DIRECT. THIS IS ****NOT**** THE VERSION OF HERESY OR HIS INTERPRETATION. ARE YOU BLIND? CAN YOU READ? HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS?

YOU ARE SAYING ****NOTHING**** BECAUSE THE INTERPRETATION IS NOT ****MINE****.

WHEN SHATAN TEMPTED EVE DIDNT HE NIX TRUTH AND LIE? NO INSTEAD OF PUTTING IT INTO ***YOUR*** PERSPECTIVE YOU SHOULD ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT TO SHOW YOU. SO YOU MAY AGREE BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT YOU AND I ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. YOU FOLLOW GNOSTIC TEACHINGS. I AM A FOLLOWER OF THE WAY. I SEEK THE PERSPECTIVE OF JAH. YOU SEEK THE PERSPECTIVE OF HERMES.

NOTHING TO EXPLAIN. THE STATEMENT STANDS. IF THATS WHAT YOU SAY THATS WHAT YOU SAY. I HAVE NO AGREEMENT OR DISAGREEMENT.

IF YOU SAY SO. WHAT WOULD BE NEGATIVE IS IF YOU HAD TO CONSTANTLY ASK ME TO STOP MISQUOTING YOU,ACCUSING YOU OF THINGS YOU HAVE NOT SAID/DONE ETC ETC ETC.

YOU HOLD GNOSTIC TEACHINGS. I DONT. WE DO NOT AGREE. YOU AND I ARE NOT ON ONE ACCORD.

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN A BIBLICAL CONCEPT OF HELL, OR WHATS IN THE BIBLE (AS I STATED BEFORE ITS OUR SOURCE MATERIAL) IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN SHOWN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT AND STUDIED? YOU CANNOT FORM AN ASSESSMENT WITHOUT LOOKING AT ALL THE EVIDENCE,DATA OR INFO. THATS NOT LOGICAL. IN FACT ITS BORDERLINE INSANITY.

THATS GREAT BUT YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. HERE IS WHAT YOU TYPED:

1.I NEVER ASSUMED THAT YOU DID OR DIDNT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING.

2.IF I NEVER ASSUMED THOSE THINGS WHY WOULD COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT I DID?

3.***YOU*** DONT KNOW ***ME***. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT PUSHES ME TO ANGER,WHAT MAKES ME UPSET AND WHY I GET UPSET. ***YOU*** ARE THE ONE ASSUMING THAT I AM UPSET. YOU BASE IT ON WHAT? CAPS? * * ? BOLD LETTERS?

4. I AM ***READING*** THE POSTS. I AM NOT GLANCING OVER THEM. IF I WERE I WOULD BE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE WRONG (THATS WHAT YOU KEEP DOING). READ THE POSTS BEFORE YOU REPLY NEXT TIME.

I CAN EXPLAIN ***NOTHING*** TO YOU UNLESS THE HOLY SPIRIT DIRECTS ME TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. IF I AM NOT DIRECTED TO TEACH YOU WHAT MUST YOU DO?

1.ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT TO TEACH YOU

2.READ AND **STUDY**

IT CAN BE SEEN BY THE SPIRITUAL EYE IN MANY WAYS? HOW IS THIS SO? NOW YOU WILL GO BACK ON YOUR WORDS. AS I SAID BEFORE YOU CONDEMN YOURSELF.

1.WHO IS "WE"????? THE QUESTIONS DID NOT INVOLVE A "WE", AN "US" A "YOU" OR AN "I". THE QUESTION WAS IN REGARDS TO DEMONS AND YESHUA CASTING OUT DEMONS. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH "WE" (HUMANS). PLEASE STICK TO WHAT HAS BEEN TYPED.

2.HERE IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED YET WE HAVE NO ANSWER FROM YOU.PLEASE SHOW THE BOARD HOW HELL OR A PLACE OF TORMENT IS NOT ETERNAL OR LITERAL BASED ON JESUS CASTING OUT THE DEMONS.

THE SPERSON WHO STARTED THE THREAD SPOKE ABOUT JUDAS AND HELL. WHERE IS JUDAS AND HELL FOUND? IN THE BIBLE. TO DEVIATE FROM THE BIBLE AS SOURCE MATERIAL IS ILLOGICAL.

THATS LIKE TROUBLE SHOOTING YOUR MAC BY READING PC WORLD. YES A MAC IS A COMPUTER AND PC WORLD DEALS WITH COMPUTERS BUT HOW MUCH MAC INFO WILL BE IN PC WORLD? YOU MAY FIND SOME THINGS IN PC WORLD THAT YOU CAN APPLY TO YOUR MAC. IN THE END YOU WILL NEED MACS FOR DUMMIES OR THE MAC MANUAL FOR TROUBLE SHOOTING. I HOPE YOU CAN GRASP THIS.

THATS MY POINT. YOU DONT HAVE A FULL UNDERSTANDING. ONCE I FOUND TRUTH AND TRUTH WAS SPOKEN TO ME EVERYTHING ELSE I KNEW CRUMBLED. WHEN YOU ARE A CHILD YOU THINK AS A CHILD. WHEN YOU ARE A MAN YOU THINK AS A MAN. APPLY THAT TO YOUR TEACHINGS AND WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED. WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED IS ***NOT*** OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. IT DOES NOT COME FROM JAH. IT IS NOT IN HARMONY WITH YESHUA.

YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN YOUR VIEWS. I ASK YOU QUESTIONS AND YOU DANCE AROUND THEM. YOU ASK ME QUESTIONS AND GET YOUR ANSWERS. YOUR VIEWS ABOUT HELL ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA. THATS A PROVEN FACT

NO ITS NO MISUNDERSTANDING ON MY PART. TRUST ME ON THAT.

I AGREE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF YOU AGREED WITH ME YOU WOULD AGREE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. YOU WOULD AGREE WITH WHAT YESHUA PREACHED.

ANYTHING AGAINST YHWH IS NOT FOR ME. IT DOESNT PROFIT ME IT ISNT FOOD FOR MY SOUL. THE SPIRITUAL MAN LIVES BY EVERY WORD FROM YHWH AND RECEIEVES UNDERSTANING AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SPIRIT. NO OTHER LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING IS REQUIRED. YOU COME WITH THE DOCTRINES OF MAN. YOU COME IN THE NAME OF THE GNOSTICS AND HERMES. I COME IN THE NAME OF ELOHAI. I SPEAK IN THE NAME OF YESHUA HA MASHIACH. YOU RECEIEVE ANOTHER. I DONT. YOU RECEIVE ANOTHER DOCTRINE. I DONT.

I DONT.

YOU ARE ADDING YOUR OWN VERSION. WHY DONT YOU STICK TO WHATS ***IN*** THE BIBLE AND CONSIDER IT ***BEFORE*** YOU ADD ***ANYTHING*** TO IT.

HOW CAN YOU RIP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT LEARNED?

SPLENDID.

HAVE YOU GROWN IN THE WAYS OF YHWH? NOT IN THE WAYS OF HERMES OR THE GNOSTICS BUT IN THE WAYS OF YESHUA? I HAVE STUDIED MANY BELIEFS,DOGMAS,DOCTRINES ETC ETC ETC. IT DOESNT PROFIT ME ANY BECAUSE I CANNOT APPLY IT TO MY LIFE. THE ONLY THING I CAN APPLY TO MY LIFE IS YHWH. YHWH IS SUPREME AUTHORITY.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me"

ONE WAY TO GET TO YHWH. THATS THROUGH YESHUA. IT IS NOT THROUGH HERMES,THOTH,BAPHOMET, LARZ,BACCHUS, JIM JONES OR HERESY.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. I AM THE DOOR: BY ME IF ANY MAN ENTER IN, HE SHALL BE SAVED

ONE WAY TO GET TO YHWH. THATS THROUGH YESHUA. IT IS NOT THROUGH HERMES,THOTH,BAPHOMET, LARZ,BACCHUS, JIM JONES OR HERESY.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the WRATH of God abideth on him.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU TRY TO TEACH PEOPLE 916. TO DENY A HELL IS DENYING THAT GOD IS ***HOLY*** AND REQUIRES PAYMENT FOR SIN. TO DENY A HELL WOULD DENY THE MISSION OF YESHUA. TO DENY AN ETERNAL TORMENT IS DENYING THE TEACHINGS OF YESHUA.

:h:

IS JUDAS IN HELL OR WAS HE JUST A PAWN?

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Member

Anti-feminist

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Anti-feminist

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Sicc OG

Anti-feminist

Sicc OG

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...

Anti-feminist

THE HIDDEN HAND...