HealthCare Reform Passed: FUCKED
- Thread starter VanD
- Start date
I don't disagree with you but those benefits were paid for by other citizens of this country. More than likely their parents, grandparents, etc. in the form of taxes. Undocumented immigrants come here to reap our benefits and pay no taxes. I hire them all the time for cash and contribute to the problem. There is no place like the good ole hypocritical country we call the United States.
20 ways Obamacare will take away freedom
20 ways Obamacare will take away freedom
With House Democrats poised to pass the Senate health care bill with some reconciliation changes later today, it is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.
Of course, the overhaul is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin’s adage, “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.”
The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.
1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501)
2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).
3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).
4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712).
5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employers’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).
6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.
You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).
7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,” which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))
8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).
9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).
10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)).
11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))
12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement” by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))
13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).
14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable” by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)
15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).
16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).
The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).
17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)
18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).
19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).
That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).
20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).
20 ways Obamacare will take away freedom
With House Democrats poised to pass the Senate health care bill with some reconciliation changes later today, it is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.
Of course, the overhaul is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin’s adage, “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.”
The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.
1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501)
2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).
3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).
4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712).
5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employers’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).
6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.
You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).
7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,” which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))
8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).
9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).
10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)).
11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))
12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement” by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))
13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).
14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable” by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)
15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).
16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).
The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).
17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)
18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).
19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).
That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).
20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).
ok mlk.
if you're talking about illegal immigrants then emphasize illegal, don't fuckin try to say immigrants can't apply for programs/benefits... Hmong immigrants (they prefer to be called "refugees") in the city of Saint Paul have taken over nearly every aspect of welfare imaginable. They've taken over 90% of the public housing available in the city and continue to be put at the top of waiting lists, and have caused severe cuts in funding or flat-out abolishment of several programs that helped the middle and lower-class that was already here in our city, in order to create new programs specifically for Hmong immigrants. In a recent study on MFIP participants (Minnesota's welfare program), two years after they started receiving welfare, 61% of Hmong in Minnesota had not gotten a job and were still receiving it, the highest of any ethnicity by far. When they did a study group of 57 Hmong to ask them what their problems were and why they couldn't work, one of the main reasons given was "They were not hired although they were capable of doing the job, because their English was not good enough to explain that they can do the job" along with "Language barriers make it difficult for Hmong welfare participants to read MFIP forms and notices, with the result that: • They may miss meetings. • They may misunderstand rules and requirements."
Well ya know what??? I don't go to Laos and bitch about them discriminating against me due to language barriers, so what gives you the right to do this with MY country? There was even a story on how some Hmong families that were from the original group of "refugees" in the 80's are pissed about how immigration is being handled now, and how everything is just a free handout with no expectations.
Pat Buchanon may have said it best:
"All I’m saying is that our levels of immigration now in the last 30 years have been enormous. It’s almost over a million legal immigrants a year, and half a million illegals who come here and stay. And you’re rapidly changing the nature of the entire country; we speak 300 languages. Unless we do something and make sure the things that unite us are elevated--like language and history and all the rest of it--we’re gonna lose our country, my friend. But anybody from any country and any continent can be a good American. We know that from our history."
if you're talking about illegal immigrants then emphasize illegal, don't fuckin try to say immigrants can't apply for programs/benefits... Hmong immigrants (they prefer to be called "refugees") in the city of Saint Paul have taken over nearly every aspect of welfare imaginable. They've taken over 90% of the public housing available in the city and continue to be put at the top of waiting lists, and have caused severe cuts in funding or flat-out abolishment of several programs that helped the middle and lower-class that was already here in our city, in order to create new programs specifically for Hmong immigrants. In a recent study on MFIP participants (Minnesota's welfare program), two years after they started receiving welfare, 61% of Hmong in Minnesota had not gotten a job and were still receiving it, the highest of any ethnicity by far. When they did a study group of 57 Hmong to ask them what their problems were and why they couldn't work, one of the main reasons given was "They were not hired although they were capable of doing the job, because their English was not good enough to explain that they can do the job" along with "Language barriers make it difficult for Hmong welfare participants to read MFIP forms and notices, with the result that: • They may miss meetings. • They may misunderstand rules and requirements."
Well ya know what??? I don't go to Laos and bitch about them discriminating against me due to language barriers, so what gives you the right to do this with MY country? There was even a story on how some Hmong families that were from the original group of "refugees" in the 80's are pissed about how immigration is being handled now, and how everything is just a free handout with no expectations.
Pat Buchanon may have said it best:
"All I’m saying is that our levels of immigration now in the last 30 years have been enormous. It’s almost over a million legal immigrants a year, and half a million illegals who come here and stay. And you’re rapidly changing the nature of the entire country; we speak 300 languages. Unless we do something and make sure the things that unite us are elevated--like language and history and all the rest of it--we’re gonna lose our country, my friend. But anybody from any country and any continent can be a good American. We know that from our history."
Nebulizah .. have you asked those HMONG's if they're illegal or legal immigrants?
and if they are legal immigrants with naturalization documents in the U.S. that allows them to work, stay and obtain benefits from local programs in their states....what is wrong with using those programs? I DON'T SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT ...
Now if it they were illegals...that's a different story...but you're over here complaining about legal immigrants who just happen to take advantage of the system...
You can do the same, try it out..
and if they are legal immigrants with naturalization documents in the U.S. that allows them to work, stay and obtain benefits from local programs in their states....what is wrong with using those programs? I DON'T SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT ...
Now if it they were illegals...that's a different story...but you're over here complaining about legal immigrants who just happen to take advantage of the system...
You can do the same, try it out..
That's part of the problem I'm talking about. The system is set up to where they -don't have to- follow the same rules and guidelines as other welfare participants as far as work search goes. Therefore, a majority of them don't look for a job, or make bullshit excuses as to why they couldn't get a job, in order to stay on welfare. Not to mention (as I said before), many of the programs that were in place for the lower class that were here before the Hmong arrived, have now been cut or abolished in favor of programs specifically for the Hmong. I've seen Hmong success stories in this city.. Hmong that have come here and used the system only long enough to get on their feet, and then went on to become hard-working American citizens who understand and speak English, and even own their own successful businesses. But it was because of their own inner desire to provide for their families and strive for success, and unfortunately it's still a majority of them who would rather choose to stay on the welfare and continue making excuses.
You're trying to make it sound like they're just taking advantage of the same services offered to everybody else, and getting held to the same standards as everybody else, and that just is not the case.
so.... does that mean people should start learning nahuatl??? afterall, that IS THE language of the americas of the indigenous people from the western hemisphere.... oh wait, "americans" can fuck shit up, flip flop things "THEIR" way [which isnt even their "way" it's just destructing & manipulating] and then say "learn it my way" 400+ years later right??
LOL @ people talking greesy about the immigrants like they impose any sort of threat & even more LOLOL that you trip off language. you guys are completely narrow into thinking it's the players that play the game but it's the game itself that needs to be reconstructed completely because it's obvious it's teaching us to be what you are representing in your posts: hateful, greedy & selfish all for what? MONEY.
the "i" ness of typical americans never seem to amaze me.
LOL @ people talking greesy about the immigrants like they impose any sort of threat & even more LOLOL that you trip off language. you guys are completely narrow into thinking it's the players that play the game but it's the game itself that needs to be reconstructed completely because it's obvious it's teaching us to be what you are representing in your posts: hateful, greedy & selfish all for what? MONEY.
the "i" ness of typical americans never seem to amaze me.
Nebulizah ...who's to blame though? the legal immigrant for taking advantage of what's provided to them by the system or the legal immigrants themselves?
THINK ABOUT THAT ONE...
Killah Kali .. not all indigenous people spoke Nahuatl in America.... Native Indians didn't speak Nahuatl.......
but I'm saying though...If you're going to live here, you have to Americanize and adapt to the U.S. lifestyle...
and I'm not talking greasy about immigrants at all..
I wish the United States gov would at least allow all immigrants living in the U.S. to obtain legal documents depending on their status..
If they're pieces of shit coming to the U.S. to cause havoc, they shouldn't deserve to be here...
THINK ABOUT THAT ONE...
Killah Kali .. not all indigenous people spoke Nahuatl in America.... Native Indians didn't speak Nahuatl.......
but I'm saying though...If you're going to live here, you have to Americanize and adapt to the U.S. lifestyle...
and I'm not talking greasy about immigrants at all..
I wish the United States gov would at least allow all immigrants living in the U.S. to obtain legal documents depending on their status..
If they're pieces of shit coming to the U.S. to cause havoc, they shouldn't deserve to be here...
lol, the language of the people who lived on this land 400+ years ago is irrelevant
the society we live in today was not built by the native people of this land... it was built by citizens of the United States of America... is it fucked up how the country came about? sure it is... but guess what?
history is fucked up... this isn't the only country where that happened... things like war, slavery, and what happened to the native americans are fucked up, but they happened... it's a shame... but those things have shaped and molded what the world is today
and today... the land we live on does not belong to those native people... and the language spoken is not nahuatl... the land belongs to the United States... and the language spoken is English
do you think throughout the rest of the world citizens in other countries are all direct descendants of the native people of that particular land? no... war happened, land was constantly take over by other countries...
should we give all the land back... throw away over 400 years of doing things a certain way and start over? of course not... thus, English is the language in this country... if you're going to LIVE here, you should speak it
if I lived in Mexico I would speak Spanish... shit I've been to Mexico on vacation, and I tried my best to speak Spanish to any people there who didn't speak English... it's just respectful IMO to at least TRY
the society we live in today was not built by the native people of this land... it was built by citizens of the United States of America... is it fucked up how the country came about? sure it is... but guess what?
history is fucked up... this isn't the only country where that happened... things like war, slavery, and what happened to the native americans are fucked up, but they happened... it's a shame... but those things have shaped and molded what the world is today
and today... the land we live on does not belong to those native people... and the language spoken is not nahuatl... the land belongs to the United States... and the language spoken is English
do you think throughout the rest of the world citizens in other countries are all direct descendants of the native people of that particular land? no... war happened, land was constantly take over by other countries...
should we give all the land back... throw away over 400 years of doing things a certain way and start over? of course not... thus, English is the language in this country... if you're going to LIVE here, you should speak it
if I lived in Mexico I would speak Spanish... shit I've been to Mexico on vacation, and I tried my best to speak Spanish to any people there who didn't speak English... it's just respectful IMO to at least TRY
The system helps a minority, but feeds apathy to a majority of Hmongs (at least in this city), while leeching the fuel for that apathy from the wallets of legitimate tax-paying citizens.
The system itself is most at fault for not holding them to equal standards when it comes to welfare, BUT the Hmongs who leech off of it without even legitimately trying to adapt to a working American lifestyle, hold some of the blame as well. When you're living in a country for over 2 years, and for the entire time you have been living off that country's welfare, at home, not working.. you can't continue to use the excuse that it's because you don't know the language well enough. That's absurd.
The system itself is most at fault for not holding them to equal standards when it comes to welfare, BUT the Hmongs who leech off of it without even legitimately trying to adapt to a working American lifestyle, hold some of the blame as well. When you're living in a country for over 2 years, and for the entire time you have been living off that country's welfare, at home, not working.. you can't continue to use the excuse that it's because you don't know the language well enough. That's absurd.
I honestly can say what is wrong with eventually making English in this country a second language for most? If the Natives were overtaken like you said and English was brought in, then what's wrong with other languages working their way in nowdays? If Spanish begins to slowly take over then fuck it I can adjust and so can my kids! I have no problem with other folks not wanting to learn English, especially if they are happy and getting by without it. If they miss out on something good because of the lack of not knowing English then that's on them. It cracks me up to hear folks get intimidated or frusterated, because they don't know what another is saying. If you don't want to learn Spanish, Vietnamese, Russian etc. the road goes both ways. In other words quit whining and bitching about it, because other languages are here to stay in the U.S. Face the facts that your not going to have a country where every single person is going to speak one language. If you don't want to learn whatever language the person is speaking around you then just shut the fuck up and ignore it.
