HealthCare Reform Passed: FUCKED
- Thread starter VanD
- Start date
For Whom the (Health Care) Bill Tolls
It comes down to this: people who can't afford health insurance don't get any. People who can't afford health care get it anyway when life or limb is on the line.
Insurance companies generally make decisions when all is relatively calm. Even a time of crisis for an insurance company is a slow-motion crisis, such as deciding whether to cover on-going cancer treatment. It lacks the urgency of a bullet hole to the chest, for the insurance company if not the patient.
Rarely, if ever, do people writhe, retch, seize, or bleed on an insurance company's floor. But they do exactly that in ambulances, ERs, and ICUs every day. Insurance companies enjoy the luxury of saying 'no.' Hospitals do not.
My lab, and my practice, is located in Griffin Hospital in Derby, CT. Griffin is a Yale-affiliated, not-for-profit, community hospital. It is also a model for its industry, with no offense to any others that are as well.
Griffin routinely achieves almost unprecedented marks for patient satisfaction; it routinely bests its peer group for clinical benchmarks; it has, traditionally, done well financially; its inclusion among Fortune's '100 best companies to work for' has become little less than an annual tradition; and it is the international headquarters for Planetree, an organization dedicated to patient-centered care that routinely attracts delegations from around the world to see how it's done. Not too shabby for a fairly small hospital in one of the smallest cities in one of the smaller states in the U.S.
But my hospital- my well-run hospital- is now hurting. Confronted by the recession that we all know is a difficult burden, and the failure to reform health care which some but not all of us recognize as fiscally toxic- my hospital is hurting. I am confident Griffin will weather the storm successfully. But the challenges and strains are considerable, and undeniable.
Leaving aside this particular patient and its particular prognosis, let's talk about the pathology. Our health care system is what's sick. The rest is just the inevitable contagion that occurs when a spreadable malady is not treated at the source.
Those writhing, retching, seizing, bleeding patients get treated. Thank goodness, despite the egregious deficiencies in our approach to healthcare for all that make us the stand-out disgrace among civilized countries, we don't just leave people to bleed in the street. Our common humanity kicks in, and they get treated -even if they have no insurance.
They get treated if they are poor. They get treated if they are not poor, but self-employed and uninsured. They get treated even if they are unemployed. They get treated if they can't afford their co-pay or deductible. They get treated even if the charges will drive them to bankruptcy. They get treated in an emergency no matter what, and the bill comes due later.
But when it does come due, it doesn't get paid. So hospitals—which have to say yes when insurance companies say no—simply have to absorb those costs. In what other industry do you have to provide services to those who can't pay for them? How can healthcare be treated like any other ‘commodity,’ when its ‘manufacturers’ are obligated to give it away for free?
Hospitals may try to pass their unpaid bills on to the rest of us by charging more for their services than they otherwise would. These charges are passed along to insurance companies which, of course, pass them back to us. Are you worried about paying for the care of the uninsured out of your taxes? You are paying for that care right now out of your insurance premiums.
And, since the uninsured and under-insured don't seek discretionary care, but rather wait until they have no choice because they are in a real crisis, the care you (and I) are paying for is…lousy. We pay to manage a crisis that need never have occurred if only earlier, discretionary, preventive care had been provided. But that doesn’t happen, because nobody is paying for that. So the uninsured and under-insured wait for a crisis- and the huge bill that comes along with it. And then all of us pay that bill.
It's a tax, but not called a tax. It's a tax over which we have no control, a tax not subject to our vote, a tax that is insidious, invisible, and unidentifiable. And, it's a tax that pays for the worst possible kind of care—crisis intervention for preventable crises. And, yes: it is taxation without representation (unless you have a friend on your insurance company's board of directors who cares about representing you). Remember the direct cause of the original ‘Tea Party’ in Boston? Taxation without representation! Health care premiums bloated by the unpaid bills of the uninsured are a tax, and you are paying it now.
For better or worse, insurance companies have more than one means to deal with hospital charges. They can, up to a point, pass those expenses on to us. But their other option is simply to refuse to pay them in full. Hospitals charge Y, and insurers pay X. Once again, hospitals are left to absorb the difference. Why? Because they don't have the luxury of telling a patient retching, writhing, seizing, bleeding up to 'Y' to just knock it off when they get to 'X.' "You've met your insurance company's quota for hemorrhaging- stop bleeding now!" doesn't seem to work.
The so-called health care system in this country is a travesty, a daily violation of human rights, a quintessential example of taxation without representation, a farce, a tragedy, a national embarrassment. It kills people daily. Sometimes, it also kills hospitals. And if it kills a hospital that was doing a good job, it kills even more people.
If you are worried about taxes and the costs of health care reform, you should ask yourself for whom the current unpaid healthcare bills toll. They toll for thee.
Dr. David L. Katz; www.davidkatzmd.com
It comes down to this: people who can't afford health insurance don't get any. People who can't afford health care get it anyway when life or limb is on the line.
Insurance companies generally make decisions when all is relatively calm. Even a time of crisis for an insurance company is a slow-motion crisis, such as deciding whether to cover on-going cancer treatment. It lacks the urgency of a bullet hole to the chest, for the insurance company if not the patient.
Rarely, if ever, do people writhe, retch, seize, or bleed on an insurance company's floor. But they do exactly that in ambulances, ERs, and ICUs every day. Insurance companies enjoy the luxury of saying 'no.' Hospitals do not.
My lab, and my practice, is located in Griffin Hospital in Derby, CT. Griffin is a Yale-affiliated, not-for-profit, community hospital. It is also a model for its industry, with no offense to any others that are as well.
Griffin routinely achieves almost unprecedented marks for patient satisfaction; it routinely bests its peer group for clinical benchmarks; it has, traditionally, done well financially; its inclusion among Fortune's '100 best companies to work for' has become little less than an annual tradition; and it is the international headquarters for Planetree, an organization dedicated to patient-centered care that routinely attracts delegations from around the world to see how it's done. Not too shabby for a fairly small hospital in one of the smallest cities in one of the smaller states in the U.S.
But my hospital- my well-run hospital- is now hurting. Confronted by the recession that we all know is a difficult burden, and the failure to reform health care which some but not all of us recognize as fiscally toxic- my hospital is hurting. I am confident Griffin will weather the storm successfully. But the challenges and strains are considerable, and undeniable.
Leaving aside this particular patient and its particular prognosis, let's talk about the pathology. Our health care system is what's sick. The rest is just the inevitable contagion that occurs when a spreadable malady is not treated at the source.
Those writhing, retching, seizing, bleeding patients get treated. Thank goodness, despite the egregious deficiencies in our approach to healthcare for all that make us the stand-out disgrace among civilized countries, we don't just leave people to bleed in the street. Our common humanity kicks in, and they get treated -even if they have no insurance.
They get treated if they are poor. They get treated if they are not poor, but self-employed and uninsured. They get treated even if they are unemployed. They get treated if they can't afford their co-pay or deductible. They get treated even if the charges will drive them to bankruptcy. They get treated in an emergency no matter what, and the bill comes due later.
But when it does come due, it doesn't get paid. So hospitals—which have to say yes when insurance companies say no—simply have to absorb those costs. In what other industry do you have to provide services to those who can't pay for them? How can healthcare be treated like any other ‘commodity,’ when its ‘manufacturers’ are obligated to give it away for free?
Hospitals may try to pass their unpaid bills on to the rest of us by charging more for their services than they otherwise would. These charges are passed along to insurance companies which, of course, pass them back to us. Are you worried about paying for the care of the uninsured out of your taxes? You are paying for that care right now out of your insurance premiums.
And, since the uninsured and under-insured don't seek discretionary care, but rather wait until they have no choice because they are in a real crisis, the care you (and I) are paying for is…lousy. We pay to manage a crisis that need never have occurred if only earlier, discretionary, preventive care had been provided. But that doesn’t happen, because nobody is paying for that. So the uninsured and under-insured wait for a crisis- and the huge bill that comes along with it. And then all of us pay that bill.
It's a tax, but not called a tax. It's a tax over which we have no control, a tax not subject to our vote, a tax that is insidious, invisible, and unidentifiable. And, it's a tax that pays for the worst possible kind of care—crisis intervention for preventable crises. And, yes: it is taxation without representation (unless you have a friend on your insurance company's board of directors who cares about representing you). Remember the direct cause of the original ‘Tea Party’ in Boston? Taxation without representation! Health care premiums bloated by the unpaid bills of the uninsured are a tax, and you are paying it now.
For better or worse, insurance companies have more than one means to deal with hospital charges. They can, up to a point, pass those expenses on to us. But their other option is simply to refuse to pay them in full. Hospitals charge Y, and insurers pay X. Once again, hospitals are left to absorb the difference. Why? Because they don't have the luxury of telling a patient retching, writhing, seizing, bleeding up to 'Y' to just knock it off when they get to 'X.' "You've met your insurance company's quota for hemorrhaging- stop bleeding now!" doesn't seem to work.
The so-called health care system in this country is a travesty, a daily violation of human rights, a quintessential example of taxation without representation, a farce, a tragedy, a national embarrassment. It kills people daily. Sometimes, it also kills hospitals. And if it kills a hospital that was doing a good job, it kills even more people.
If you are worried about taxes and the costs of health care reform, you should ask yourself for whom the current unpaid healthcare bills toll. They toll for thee.
Dr. David L. Katz; www.davidkatzmd.com
Healthcare Vote Passes-What's Our Next Step?
Submitted by Southern Shift on Mon, 2010-03-22 04:16
Authored by Davey D
Healthcare should be a basic right guaranteed to all human beings no matter their race, color or creed. It should not be for profit ever... I want people to ponder on that thought for a minute as they either celebrate or bemoan last night's historic 'Yes' vote on healthcare reform. I want people, especially those who insisted that this needed to happen to ponder over this concept... This was a first step.... Lemme repeat that again, because maybe it hasn't sunk in... This was a first step...
It's pretty well-known that I wasn't in favor of this current healthcare package. No I'm not one of these folks running around with signs calling President Obama a 'socialist'. Nor was I running around spouting some crazy talking points from Fox News about 'death panels' or anything like that...
I opposed the healthcare reform package because it didn't go far enough and it seemed to grant too many provisions to the insurance companies. My goal as stated, Healthcare for everyone - no matter what and for free. What was on the table was a terrible, terrible compromise.
It was a compromise that essentially stripped away all price controls. It was a compromise that took away single-payer (universal healthcare) which Obama said he was down for in '08 but never mentioned once in office. It compromised public option, which again Obama and our Democratic controlled Senate and Congress surrendered thanks to a few bonehead lawmakers who in my opinion got brought off by the health insurance industry.
According to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, this latest bill had 200 GOP amendments attached to it, yet none of those bozos even voted for it. So in other words we didn't need to water this down. If it fails the GOP can claim they never voted for it and if it pans out they can run around bragging they had something to do with it... Talk about compromise after compromise.
So with all that being said, I fully accept that last night's vote was a crucial first step. No matter how much I disliked what went down... I'm down to work and fight to improve this - how about you?
My fear is two-fold. First, I fear that many of those who voted for this will abandon this fight and make excuses like 'let's give this some time' or 'let's not fight for this now and have it become a distraction during these upcoming midterm elections'. Later we'll hear similar excuses and calls for us not to make waves because we have to get people back in office in 2012. There will never be a right time for skittish politicians.
My other fear is that many of y'all who were quick to debate me will remain silent as mummies and not hold lawmakers accountable to this promise of improving the bill. After all the celebration dies down how many of you folks are promising to do whatever it takes to make sure this bill moves forward and that 'crucial first step' leads to a second and third step that take us down a path where this ugly Healthcare bill becomes a 'beautiful one'. I want to be proven wrong, but if the lack of participation in the last election cycle is any indication of our commitment for continuing the 'hope' and 'change' Barack Obama campaigned on I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen.
I do know one thing... the Fox News, Tea Party crowd have not and will not stop organizing. They're already promising to run and back candidates who will repeal this bill. I know here in Texas, I'm out here doing political education and organizing. For me '08 never stopped. But where are the rest of y'all? I see the Tea Party folks, but I don't see you... I don't hear our favorite urban radio station personalities keeping us up to speed on the latest bills and maneuvers in Congress... I hear a lot about Lil Wayne going to jail and Al Sharpton vs Tavis Smiley, but what about some chatter about the next steps all of us need to take to make sure health insurance rates don't jump up 39% like they did in California before this bill even kicks in?
Who's talking to us about the candidates we should be backing come November? Will it be more Bart Stupaks, Joe Libermans or Bill Nelsons who as Democrats and independents worked to derail this not because it didn't go far enough, but because they had other agendas - many which were suspect? Will we be looking to back more Anthony Weiners, Bernie Sanders and others who insisted that Healthcare be about our well-being taking precedent over profit? Is that your goal? Or is it all about I got mine, hope you get yours?
I want people to not only keep in mind the promised relentless opposition of the Fox News crowd, but also the recent Supreme Court ruling that now allows corporations to have major influence in the future elections. Don't think these HMOs are not gearing up to smash and smash hard... Make no mistake with the economy all jacked up, these Health insurance companies along with the Wall Street banks who are gearing up to fight the reform measures against them have some tricks up their sleeves.
Don't be surprised if some y'all reading this suddenly find yourselves on some corporate payroll talking about how you need a few extra dollars to make ends meet so you wind up doing some sort of activity to carry out the agendas of these corporate institutions... Don't be surprised if some Civil Rights type organization is suddenly having their events or special programs for the youth or even a local concert or non profit is being sponsored by some of these institutions. We've already seen this happen with the telecom companies fighting to get rid of Net Neutrality. They been pretty good at buying off - oops I mean sponsoring - organizations and groups for their silence and in some cases advocacy. Don't think the health Insurance companies won't be gunning for us using similar aggressive stealth-like tactics.
Again are you ready to start taking those next steps? The goal should be that this new bill in its final form is much better than any insurance package you've ever had and for far less than you're paying. Furthermore it should be something within reach for everyone. If that's not the goal, be warned, it's just a matter of time before some financial upset has you slipping through the cracks. Don't wait till then to be fighting for what's right. This was a compromise, let's not forget it... OUR promise is to improve this bill... Let's hold each other accountable. Something to ponder...
-Davey D-
Submitted by Southern Shift on Mon, 2010-03-22 04:16
Authored by Davey D
Healthcare should be a basic right guaranteed to all human beings no matter their race, color or creed. It should not be for profit ever... I want people to ponder on that thought for a minute as they either celebrate or bemoan last night's historic 'Yes' vote on healthcare reform. I want people, especially those who insisted that this needed to happen to ponder over this concept... This was a first step.... Lemme repeat that again, because maybe it hasn't sunk in... This was a first step...
It's pretty well-known that I wasn't in favor of this current healthcare package. No I'm not one of these folks running around with signs calling President Obama a 'socialist'. Nor was I running around spouting some crazy talking points from Fox News about 'death panels' or anything like that...
I opposed the healthcare reform package because it didn't go far enough and it seemed to grant too many provisions to the insurance companies. My goal as stated, Healthcare for everyone - no matter what and for free. What was on the table was a terrible, terrible compromise.
It was a compromise that essentially stripped away all price controls. It was a compromise that took away single-payer (universal healthcare) which Obama said he was down for in '08 but never mentioned once in office. It compromised public option, which again Obama and our Democratic controlled Senate and Congress surrendered thanks to a few bonehead lawmakers who in my opinion got brought off by the health insurance industry.
According to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, this latest bill had 200 GOP amendments attached to it, yet none of those bozos even voted for it. So in other words we didn't need to water this down. If it fails the GOP can claim they never voted for it and if it pans out they can run around bragging they had something to do with it... Talk about compromise after compromise.
So with all that being said, I fully accept that last night's vote was a crucial first step. No matter how much I disliked what went down... I'm down to work and fight to improve this - how about you?
My fear is two-fold. First, I fear that many of those who voted for this will abandon this fight and make excuses like 'let's give this some time' or 'let's not fight for this now and have it become a distraction during these upcoming midterm elections'. Later we'll hear similar excuses and calls for us not to make waves because we have to get people back in office in 2012. There will never be a right time for skittish politicians.
My other fear is that many of y'all who were quick to debate me will remain silent as mummies and not hold lawmakers accountable to this promise of improving the bill. After all the celebration dies down how many of you folks are promising to do whatever it takes to make sure this bill moves forward and that 'crucial first step' leads to a second and third step that take us down a path where this ugly Healthcare bill becomes a 'beautiful one'. I want to be proven wrong, but if the lack of participation in the last election cycle is any indication of our commitment for continuing the 'hope' and 'change' Barack Obama campaigned on I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen.
I do know one thing... the Fox News, Tea Party crowd have not and will not stop organizing. They're already promising to run and back candidates who will repeal this bill. I know here in Texas, I'm out here doing political education and organizing. For me '08 never stopped. But where are the rest of y'all? I see the Tea Party folks, but I don't see you... I don't hear our favorite urban radio station personalities keeping us up to speed on the latest bills and maneuvers in Congress... I hear a lot about Lil Wayne going to jail and Al Sharpton vs Tavis Smiley, but what about some chatter about the next steps all of us need to take to make sure health insurance rates don't jump up 39% like they did in California before this bill even kicks in?
Who's talking to us about the candidates we should be backing come November? Will it be more Bart Stupaks, Joe Libermans or Bill Nelsons who as Democrats and independents worked to derail this not because it didn't go far enough, but because they had other agendas - many which were suspect? Will we be looking to back more Anthony Weiners, Bernie Sanders and others who insisted that Healthcare be about our well-being taking precedent over profit? Is that your goal? Or is it all about I got mine, hope you get yours?
I want people to not only keep in mind the promised relentless opposition of the Fox News crowd, but also the recent Supreme Court ruling that now allows corporations to have major influence in the future elections. Don't think these HMOs are not gearing up to smash and smash hard... Make no mistake with the economy all jacked up, these Health insurance companies along with the Wall Street banks who are gearing up to fight the reform measures against them have some tricks up their sleeves.
Don't be surprised if some y'all reading this suddenly find yourselves on some corporate payroll talking about how you need a few extra dollars to make ends meet so you wind up doing some sort of activity to carry out the agendas of these corporate institutions... Don't be surprised if some Civil Rights type organization is suddenly having their events or special programs for the youth or even a local concert or non profit is being sponsored by some of these institutions. We've already seen this happen with the telecom companies fighting to get rid of Net Neutrality. They been pretty good at buying off - oops I mean sponsoring - organizations and groups for their silence and in some cases advocacy. Don't think the health Insurance companies won't be gunning for us using similar aggressive stealth-like tactics.
Again are you ready to start taking those next steps? The goal should be that this new bill in its final form is much better than any insurance package you've ever had and for far less than you're paying. Furthermore it should be something within reach for everyone. If that's not the goal, be warned, it's just a matter of time before some financial upset has you slipping through the cracks. Don't wait till then to be fighting for what's right. This was a compromise, let's not forget it... OUR promise is to improve this bill... Let's hold each other accountable. Something to ponder...
-Davey D-
:knockout::knockout:
no ones "logic" on the subject matters....no ones knows whats going to change or how drastically...
simple fact is congress just passed a bill that most Americans didn't feel necessary or at the least "right" at the moment...
move over mr logic.....i didn't mean to interrupt your knowledge bearing thread
no ones "logic" on the subject matters....no ones knows whats going to change or how drastically...
simple fact is congress just passed a bill that most Americans didn't feel necessary or at the least "right" at the moment...
move over mr logic.....i didn't mean to interrupt your knowledge bearing thread