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Sep 25, 2005
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#81
someone said something about "you don't know what its like to be a father..." Fuck that. You don't have to procreate to be a father. This whole thing about "it's my God given right to make babies" is what got us into the situation in the first place. I say mandatory sterilization or limitation on reproductive "rights". It is not a personal right when you are inflicting your shit on the rest of society.

This is the first thread I've actually agreed with a lot of what thaG is saying.

Carry on,
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#82
First, it's not a book, and second, I didn't realize it is not free; it has never asked me to pay for the article but then the IP of my computer is somewhat special, which I forgot. Sorry about that.

The article examines the development of the way people think and what kind of epistemic choices they make, why it is so hard to get people to view the world scientifically and why once they have went in the other direction it is pretty much pointless to try to change them. Which is very relevant to the thread because this is exactly what I have been trying to do, not surprisingly with little success.
Judging by the title of the article, it would be safe to assume it is a critical examination of thoughts and ideas rooted in creationalism and intelligent design. However, you've yet to properly connect these things to this topic. Until you do, that link is totally off topic. If you do connect it I have something specifically for you, and once again it will be something you overlook, so I want you to make the connection. In fact, why don't you post the article here for us to read?

I would be willing to bet that I co-sign with ThaG no where near 99.9% of the time.
Ok, ok, 99.8%?

I have disagreed with ThaG many times, particularity in discussions relating to economics, psychology, evolutionary psychology, sociology, and our respective understandings of human nature.
Sure you have.

Just because I have agreed with him in this particular thread, and in some other recent discussions, is not evidence that I agree with him 99.9% of the time.
We don't even have to talk about recent discussions, I'm sure if we look at something from last month we'll see the same pattern. When I give Fhag his walking papers, I make sure you get yours because you're almost always close behind hence the 99.9...oops....99.8%.

As much as you seem to take issue with perceptions purported as facts, I am surprised you would allow yourself to commit such a fallacy as assuming I co-sign with ThaG 99.9% of the time and suggesting that I look at foolish as he does.
It isn't a fallacy when I'm making light of your claims that others are co-signing. You're doing exactly what you claim others are doing and have a history of doing it. You're basically saying, "It's ok for Fhag to act a fool and fuck shit up because he brings entertainment to the threads." And yes, you look as foolish as he does, but that is my opinion, but I'm sure if given enough time I may actually persuade you to see things my way.

Do you find it at all ironic or worthy of introspection that you are seemingly upset with, and accusing ThaG of something that is similar to what other people have suggested you have done as well?
No, I don't find anything ironic nor do I need to examine anything I've done. Moreover, I'm not upset with anything the two of you say.
Fhag has a HISTORY of contorting what has been posted which is why I refer to him as Fhag, and he has a history of sticking his foot in his mouth and being called on it. I give it to you straight, uncut and don't give a rats ass if you believe me or listen to what I have to say. In fact, I make it a point to stress that. You don't see me DISRUPTING threads and bringing madness like your hero. You don't see me making threads asking WHY my threads aren't being read. However, your hero has done these things and will continue to do so as long as he has an audience.

Now let me dig into you again, and hopefully you'll say I'm co-signing for I PUK.

I understand that, and respect what you are saying. I feel though that we are often quick to tell someone to stop posting when we disagree with them, but those disagreements often turn into the most active and viewed threads.
Let me make this perfectly clear for you, people are not quick to tell someone to stop posting when they disagree with them. People are told to stop posting when they CONSTANTLY do what Fhag has been doing.

In the case of the link, you make a valid point, but I guess I am willing to put up with a few shenanigans because of what someone brings to the discussion.
What has he brought to this discussion? Links he doesn't understand? Words out of context? Subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with this topic? You're basically saying, "It's ok for Fhag to act a fool and fuck shit up because he brings entertainment to the threads."

I didn't agree with him often, but I wish Tadou (and many others) would post here again just because he brought a POV that was unique to the board and created a lot of interesting discussions and entertainment in threads while many other people who disagreed with him often suggested he stop posting all together.
I only had one encounter with Tadou, and after that encounter he left me the hell alone. You can continue to wish upon a star or beg for his return, but it doesn't matter to me.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#83
someone said something about "you don't know what its like to be a father..." Fuck that. You don't have to procreate to be a father. This whole thing about "it's my God given right to make babies" is what got us into the situation in the first place. I say mandatory sterilization or limitation on reproductive "rights". It is not a personal right when you are inflicting your shit on the rest of society.

This is the first thread I've actually agreed with a lot of what thaG is saying.

Carry on,
The continent of Asia has over 4 billion people. So you're saying they were on some, "it's my God given right to make babies" shit? So that, not industrialization, capitalism, etc is what got us here?
 
Sep 25, 2005
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#84
Industrialism and capitalism sure helped get us here - thats not disputed. We're at the point where we need to slow the fuck down (in terms of procreation) in order to solve the problem. We sure as hell should put limitations on the aforementioned problems as well.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#85
Industrialism and capitalism sure helped get us here - thats not disputed. We're at the point where we need to slow the fuck down (in terms of procreation) in order to solve the problem. We sure as hell should put limitations on the aforementioned problems as well.
But according to Fhag those things are not problems or they're miniscule. You simply can't blame the problems on Abrahamic religions (which Fhag has done) and people wanting to fuck like rabbits. The reason being is not every sect within the Abrahamic branch endorses the view that you should breed like rabbits. This has been explained to him in very simple terms, but because he has an emotional attachment to his views, he can't see it. Moreover, you simply can't blame the problem on a population boom. Centuries ago the human life expectancy was lower than what it is today, so why is that? Advances in SCIENCE? Advances in TECHNOLOGY?
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#86
Judging by the title of the article, it would be safe to assume it is a critical examination of thoughts and ideas rooted in creationalism and intelligent design. However, you've yet to properly connect these things to this topic. Until you do, that link is totally off topic. If you do connect it I have something specifically for you, and once again it will be something you overlook, so I want you to make the connection. In fact, why don't you post the article here for us to read?
I can't post the article because it has figures in it and those can't be copy-pasted. Plus I already summarized it for you and told you why it is relevant to the topic


Ok, ok, 99.8%?
In order for that number to be accurate there must have been at minimum 1000 threads/opinion on which he could have agreed/disagreed with me. That's the only way the arithmetic can be worked out. I highly doubt there's been that many. Get your facts straight next time
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#87
But according to Fhag those things are not problems or they're miniscule. You simply can't blame the problems on Abrahamic religions (which Fhag has done) and people wanting to fuck like rabbits. The reason being is not every sect within the Abrahamic branch endorses the view that you should breed like rabbits. This has been explained to him in very simple terms, but because he has an emotional attachment to his views, he can't see it. Moreover, you simply can't blame the problem on a population boom. Centuries ago the human life expectancy was lower than what it is today, so why is that? Advances in SCIENCE? Advances in TECHNOLOGY?
I am getting very tired of you.

1. Does the Bible say "Be fruitful and multiply" or not and how would you twist the "interpretation" of that so that to make it as if it doesn't mean what it's saying?

2. Does it matter whether all Abrahamic sects endorse the view that you should breed like rabbits or not? Not at all. What is important is how many do and the answer is the majority, at least for Christians (I am not so well familiar with the details of the other sets of superstitions labeled as religions but judging on how many kids they're having, I doubt it's much different) and as we will see below, even this doesn't matter that much. Last time I checked the biggest Christian denomination was the Catholic church and it is opposed to any forms of birth control, same with the fundamentalists in the US.

3. Someone had said that the greatest shortcoming of humanity is the inability to understand the exponential function. Here I'll show you another fine example why. Let's assume that we have a population of 100 millions highly religious people and only 10 millions of them think that it is God's wish that they procreate. Let's assume that the 90 millions who don't think so have ~2 children per woman/couple, which is the replacement rate, while the 10 million minority have on average 4. We will assume that children adopt the views of their parents (a fair assumption given that the more fundamentalist your parents are, the less likely you are to ever escape indoctrination into the same things they believe in). This means that the population of people who don't think they should breed like rabbits will remain constant at 90 million while the population of those minority 10 million will have become 10 billion in just 10 generations.

So much for your fallacy, and BTW, a number of African countries have quintupled their population in less than a century so the little model I made is actually somewhat conservative.

4. It is ridiculous to claim that science is to blame because it has allowed us to live longer and I am not going to spend time refuting this, it is just laughable.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#88
The continent of Asia has over 4 billion people. So you're saying they were on some, "it's my God given right to make babies" shit? So that, not industrialization, capitalism, etc is what got us here?
I highly doubt that the Asian religions impose any form of birth control.

And this isn't really that relevant because if you bothered to read what I have posted so far in this thread, you would have understood that I do not identify religion as the root cause of the problems. It is something we have to get rid of in order to solve them, but it is itself nothing more than a manifestation of the deep cognitive deficiencies of our species. If we don't get rid of it, we will never face those problems and find a working solution because it is acting like a giant Dunning-Kruger effect shield preventing us from even realizing the existence of those problems, by making us think we are the result of an act of special creation and that we are important.
 
Feb 8, 2006
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#90
someone said something about "you don't know what its like to be a father..." Fuck that. You don't have to procreate to be a father. This whole thing about "it's my God given right to make babies" is what got us into the situation in the first place. I say mandatory sterilization or limitation on reproductive "rights". It is not a personal right when you are inflicting your shit on the rest of society.

This is the first thread I've actually agreed with a lot of what thaG is saying.

Carry on,
I was the one that said you don't know what its like to be a father to ThaG,

who said anything about God given right you fuckin nutbag. Wife and I were married for over 2 yrs and we had a daughter. I'd love to see you say any of that shit. That was the most over the top statement I've ever read.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#91
I was the one that said you don't know what its like to be a father to ThaG,

who said anything about God given right you fuckin nutbag. Wife and I were married for over 2 yrs and we had a daughter. I'd love to see you say any of that shit. That was the most over the top statement I've ever read.
I think I have posted several lengthy explanations of the Darwinian drive towards reproduction and ensuring your offspring has an as good chance of making it as possible and how this shapes people's behavior. Apparently, you didn't bother to read/understand.
 
Feb 8, 2006
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#92
I think I have posted several lengthy explanations of the Darwinian drive towards reproduction and ensuring your offspring has an as good chance of making it as possible and how this shapes people's behavior. Apparently, you didn't bother to read/understand.
do you know me? do you know anything about my life? it's obvious you have minimal social interaction, but it's pretty funny how you come to your assumptions on "society" and parents in general.
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#93
do you know me? do you know anything about my life? it's obvious you have minimal social interaction, but it's pretty funny how you come to your assumptions on "society" and parents in general.
We are speaking different languages

I am not talking about parents, I am talking about humans as living organisms and the common characteristic they share with all other living organisms. Society is irrelevant here, I am talking about much more fundamental thigns
 
Feb 8, 2006
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#94
We are speaking different languages

I am not talking about parents, I am talking about humans as living organisms and the common characteristic they share with all other living organisms. Society is irrelevant here, I am talking about much more fundamental thigns

again your assumptions are irrelevant.

how many "humans" have you witnessed and tested to come up with your conclusions. Where are you from? Where have you lived and traveled? What makes you think you know anything about "humans". Books are not humans.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#95
I can't post the article because it has figures in it and those can't be copy-pasted. Plus I already summarized it for you and told you why it is relevant to the topic
You can't post the article because it has figures in it? LMAO! You're used to posting images, so why don't you do a Ctrl + PrtScn to post it? Also, your summary is lacking and most likely doesn't cover what may actually be presented in the article, so I'll wait for you to post the images, thanks.

In order for that number to be accurate there must have been at minimum 1000 threads/opinion on which he could have agreed/disagreed with me. That's the only way the arithmetic can be worked out. I highly doubt there's been that many. Get your facts straight next time
You're very uncharasmatic, do not understand sarcasm, and sound like a robot. He quoted me and my percentage, talked about co-signing and I explained what that percentage actually represents, "It isn't a fallacy when I'm making light of your claims that others are co-signing." Get your reading skills up to snuff next time.

I highly doubt that the Asian religion impose any form of birth control.
There is NO SUCH THING as "the Asian religion", and since everyone here besides you knows this to be a FACT, I agree with your claim that "the Asian religion" doesn't impose any form of birth control. :dead:

And this isn't really that relevant because if you bothered to read what I have posted so far in this thread, you would have understood that I do not identify religion as the root cause of the problems.
In this thread, and other threads, your main concern has been with religion and how you think religion has played a role in this. Yet when issues directly linked to a certain group of people are raised, you ignore this. Refer to pages 2 and 3 for proof of your antics.

It is something we have to get rid of in order to solve them, but it is itself nothing more than a manifestation of the deep cognitive deficiencies of our species.
This is your opinion. I am fine with you passing it off as your opinion, you have a right to your opinion, but don't try to pass it off as fact because it isn't. The same way you say we need to get rid of religion, someone else can say get rid of whites and Europeans, because they have caused the most destruction on the planet. Would getting rid of them be the right thing to do?

If we don't get rid of it, we will never face those problems and find a working solution because it is acting like a giant Dunning-Kruger effect shield preventing us from even realizing the existence of those problems, by making us think we are the result of an act of special creation and that we are important.
First off, not all religions promote the view that we are a special creation or important. Secondly, you are a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger Syndrome, especially when it comes to the thing you despise most--religion. Finally, WHITE PRIVILEGE, has caused more problems within our last century than religion, but how come you never mention this?

I am getting very tired of you.
And?

1. Does the Bible say "Be fruitful and multiply" or not and how would you twist the "interpretation" of that so that to make it as if it doesn't mean what it's saying?
Yes, it says "be fruitful and multiply", but how is this any different from your own body sending signals to do the same thing? :confused: Moreover, it also says don't have children out of wedlock, and if you didn't know, this is a contributor to population growth. It also says to keep the family together, and if you didn't know, studies show teens who have a connection with their parents or grew up with both parents in their home are less likely to experience teen pregnancy.

2. Does it matter whether all Abrahamic sects endorse the view that you should breed like rabbits or not? Not at all.
It matters when you make blanket statements and sweeping generalizations.

What is important is how many do and the answer is the majority, at least for Christians (I am not so well familiar with the details of the other sets of superstitions labeled as religions but judging on how many kids they're having, I doubt it's much different) and as we will see below, even this doesn't matter that much. Last time I checked the biggest Christian denomination was the Catholic church and it is opposed to any forms of birth control, same with the fundamentalists in the US.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/27/catholics-to-pope-lift-bi_n_115185.html

And of course you can refer to the links in other threads where I showed you many "christians" endorse birth control.

3. Someone had said that the greatest shortcoming of humanity is the inability to understand the exponential function. Here I'll show you another fine example why. Let's assume that we have a population of 100 millions highly religious people and only 10 millions of them think that it is God's wish that they procreate. Let's assume that the 90 millions who don't think so have ~2 children per woman/couple, which is the replacement rate, while the 10 million minority have on average 4. We will assume that children adopt the views of their parents (a fair assumption given that the more fundamentalist your parents are, the less likely you are to ever escape indoctrination into the same things they believe in). This means that the population of people who don't think they should breed like rabbits will remain constant at 90 million while the population of those minority 10 million will have become 10 billion in just 10 generations.
What does logistic growth suggest? You're talking about growth, loss of resources, "K", etc, yet you don't even consider logistic growth and how the curve may change due to other factors.

Fail again. :dead:

So much for your fallacy
What fallacy? Please stop using words out of context.

and BTW, a number of African countries have quintupled their population in less than a century so the little model I made is actually somewhat conservative.
Your little model does not take into account logistic growth which actually considers environmental factors. Moreover, what your little model does not take into account is that in third world countries where EDUCATION and EMPLOYMENT are GROWING, fertility rates are actually DECREASING.

4. It is ridiculous to claim that science is to blame because it has allowed us to live longer and I am not going to spend time refuting this, it is just laughable.
Science has had it's hand in fucking up the planet, and to deny this is pure foolishness. Me spending my time explaining it to you is laughable, so I ask that you read the comments provided by Ethereal (another thread.)
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#96
again your assumptions are irrelevant.

how many "humans" have you witnessed and tested to come up with your conclusions. Where are you from? Where have you lived and traveled? What makes you think you know anything about "humans". Books are not humans.
There is a very high probability that I have traveled a lot more and I have lived in much more diverse settings than you have but this doesn't really matter.

The difference between me and you is that I actually care about data and facts while you not only don't care about such things, you openly reject them
 

ThaG

Sicc OG
Jun 30, 2005
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#97
You can't post the article because it has figures in it? LMAO! You're used to posting images, so why don't you do a Ctrl + PrtScn to post it? Also, your summary is lacking and most likely doesn't cover what may actually be presented in the article, so I'll wait for you to post the images, thanks.



You're very uncharasmatic, do not understand sarcasm, and sound like a robot. He quoted me and my percentage, talked about co-signing and I explained what that percentage actually represents, "It isn't a fallacy when I'm making light of your claims that others are co-signing." Get your reading skills up to snuff next time.



There is NO SUCH THING as "the Asian religion", and since everyone here besides you knows this to be a FACT, I agree with your claim that "the Asian religion" doesn't impose any form of birth control. :dead:



In this thread, and other threads, your main concern has been with religion and how you think religion has played a role in this. Yet when issues directly linked to a certain group of people are raised, you ignore this. Refer to pages 2 and 3 for proof of your antics.



This is your opinion. I am fine with you passing it off as your opinion, you have a right to your opinion, but don't try to pass it off as fact because it isn't. The same way you say we need to get rid of religion, someone else can say get rid of whites and Europeans, because they have caused the most destruction on the planet. Would getting rid of them be the right thing to do?



First off, not all religions promote the view that we are a special creation or important. Secondly, you are a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger Syndrome, especially when it comes to the thing you despise most--religion. Finally, WHITE PRIVILEGE, has caused more problems within our last century than religion, but how come you never mention this?



And?



Yes, it says "be fruitful and multiply", but how is this any different from your own body sending signals to do the same thing? :confused: Moreover, it also says don't have children out of wedlock, and if you didn't know, this is a contributor to population growth. It also says to keep the family together, and if you didn't know, studies show teens who have a connection with their parents or grew up with both parents in their home are less likely to experience teen pregnancy.



It matters when you make blanket statements and sweeping generalizations.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/27/catholics-to-pope-lift-bi_n_115185.html

And of course you can refer to the links in other threads where I showed you many "christians" endorse birth control.



What does logistic growth suggest? You're talking about growth, loss of resources, "K", etc, yet you don't even consider logistic growth and how the curve may change due to other factors.

Fail again. :dead:



What fallacy? Please stop using words out of context.



Your little model does not take into account logistic growth which actually considers environmental factors. Moreover, what your little model does not take into account is that in third world countries where EDUCATION and EMPLOYMENT are GROWING, fertility rates are actually DECREASING.



Science has had it's hand in fucking up the planet, and to deny this is pure foolishness. Me spending my time explaining it to you is laughable, so I ask that you read the comments provided by Ethereal (another thread.)
You managed to vomit more bullshit into this thread than it's worth the time to refute. I end it here