Convince an Atheist!
- Thread starter 2-0-Sixx
- Start date
2-0,
It is clear.
But you have to understand that there is people out there who spin this shit around, constantly.
They only try to smudge what's clear, and dirty what's clean.
The only way no days to find the truth behind the scripture is to read the actual scripture. Even people who follow the scripture spin it round to best suit them.
It is clear.
But you have to understand that there is people out there who spin this shit around, constantly.
They only try to smudge what's clear, and dirty what's clean.
The only way no days to find the truth behind the scripture is to read the actual scripture. Even people who follow the scripture spin it round to best suit them.
This accepted lie need to be killed once and for all, that einstein was religious or a theist is a popular distortion by those who want to be associated with him.
Einstein : "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Einstein , New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930 : "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
And again : "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
Einstein was definitely not religious, and very likely an atheist or at least aptheist. And who even cares, the religiousness of Newton, or Einstein has absolutely nothing to do with their discoveries.
But this is just taken out of context, am I right?
Einstein : "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Einstein , New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930 : "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
And again : "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
Einstein was definitely not religious, and very likely an atheist or at least aptheist. And who even cares, the religiousness of Newton, or Einstein has absolutely nothing to do with their discoveries.
But this is just taken out of context, am I right?
When explaining some phenomenon it is said that the answer is usually the simplest one following in reason and logic. Yet the same people who say this turn around and attempt to explain existence with abstract theories.
If it is true that the simplest logical explanation is the most likely, then the answer to existence is a single source, God.
Lets see...
Chaos theory. What a magical concept! There is nothing magical about understanding that everything came from a single supremely intelligent source. Chaos theory suggests that everything just happened by chance. The excuse for this is that, given infinite possibilities and time, the conditions of the universe and of life came about. Well then one must follow, logically, that infinite possibilities cannot be devoid of intelligence, and rather that it *must* be supremely intelligent. Our intelligence is finite, so we cannot embody that fact. Something does not come from nothing. To say intelligence came from chemical and mechanical forces devoid of intelligence is idiotic.
"Nothing is evolved as a consequent that is not involved as an antecedent." -The Kybalion
I suspect that you (2-0-Sixx) were looking for a debate against God as a person. To understand the Supreme Person is a level you are not ready to accept. The first thing that has to be established is understanding the basic philosophy of a single source in an impersonal way. Thus, I stated some of the (should be) obvious ones above.
You believe that intelligence is derived of a mature stage of material conditions. And because you do not believe in an ultimate cause, intelligence to you is simply a fluke that happened to come around by pure chance.
Allow me to propose something to you:
Matter, instead of begetting intelligence, was begotten by it. I don't care how long you wait, the keyboard in front of you will not produce offspring. Life does not come from matter. You will have nothing to back this up. And the simplest logical answer is usually the correct one.
So, why is it that you wish to be contrary to these obvious facts?
If it is true that the simplest logical explanation is the most likely, then the answer to existence is a single source, God.
Lets see...
Chaos theory. What a magical concept! There is nothing magical about understanding that everything came from a single supremely intelligent source. Chaos theory suggests that everything just happened by chance. The excuse for this is that, given infinite possibilities and time, the conditions of the universe and of life came about. Well then one must follow, logically, that infinite possibilities cannot be devoid of intelligence, and rather that it *must* be supremely intelligent. Our intelligence is finite, so we cannot embody that fact. Something does not come from nothing. To say intelligence came from chemical and mechanical forces devoid of intelligence is idiotic.
"Nothing is evolved as a consequent that is not involved as an antecedent." -The Kybalion
I suspect that you (2-0-Sixx) were looking for a debate against God as a person. To understand the Supreme Person is a level you are not ready to accept. The first thing that has to be established is understanding the basic philosophy of a single source in an impersonal way. Thus, I stated some of the (should be) obvious ones above.
You believe that intelligence is derived of a mature stage of material conditions. And because you do not believe in an ultimate cause, intelligence to you is simply a fluke that happened to come around by pure chance.
Allow me to propose something to you:
Matter, instead of begetting intelligence, was begotten by it. I don't care how long you wait, the keyboard in front of you will not produce offspring. Life does not come from matter. You will have nothing to back this up. And the simplest logical answer is usually the correct one.
So, why is it that you wish to be contrary to these obvious facts?
Einstein: The Life and Times
by Ronald W. Clark
Page 502
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
-Albert Einstein
Einstein: The Human Side
"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent been placed in doubt by modern science.
"My religiousity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitly superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehed of reality. Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God."
-Albert Einstein
Those are a few.
He didn't believe in a personal God. The type of deity that everyone else believes in.
by Ronald W. Clark
Page 502
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
-Albert Einstein
Einstein: The Human Side
"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent been placed in doubt by modern science.
"My religiousity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitly superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehed of reality. Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God."
-Albert Einstein
Those are a few.
He didn't believe in a personal God. The type of deity that everyone else believes in.
Here's an interesting note....
Einstein: A Life
by Denis Brian
Page 206
"Coughlin [of the Los Angeles tabloid Illustrated Daily News, in hot pursuit of asking Einstein a provocative, headline-inducing question] found the right moment while tailing the car that was speeding the couple [the Einsteins] north on the coast road to Pasadena. It had stopped to let Einstein stroll over to a small headland known as Sunset Cliffs, where he stood gazing at the sea and sky. Seizing the moment, Coughlin leaped from his car, the question on his lips, followed by Spang, his camera at the ready. "Doctor", Coughlin said, "is there a God?" Einstein stared at the water's edge some twenty feet below, then turned to his questioner. Coughlin later wrote: "There were tears in his eyes, and he was sniffing. Spang shot the picture as Einstein was hustled away before he could answer me. "Well," I said, "the way he reacted, he believes in God. Did you ever see such an emotional face?" Spang was standing on the edge of the headland, where the great scientist had stood. He looked down, then called me: "Come over here." I looked down and there, caught against the base of the little cliff, was a shark that must have been dead in the hot sun for several days.
"Make anybody cry", Spang said."
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"God does not play dice" Albert Einstein once said, expressing his contempt for the notion that the universe is governed by probability - an idea fundamental to quantum theory....
Einstein: A Life
by Denis Brian
Page 206
"Coughlin [of the Los Angeles tabloid Illustrated Daily News, in hot pursuit of asking Einstein a provocative, headline-inducing question] found the right moment while tailing the car that was speeding the couple [the Einsteins] north on the coast road to Pasadena. It had stopped to let Einstein stroll over to a small headland known as Sunset Cliffs, where he stood gazing at the sea and sky. Seizing the moment, Coughlin leaped from his car, the question on his lips, followed by Spang, his camera at the ready. "Doctor", Coughlin said, "is there a God?" Einstein stared at the water's edge some twenty feet below, then turned to his questioner. Coughlin later wrote: "There were tears in his eyes, and he was sniffing. Spang shot the picture as Einstein was hustled away before he could answer me. "Well," I said, "the way he reacted, he believes in God. Did you ever see such an emotional face?" Spang was standing on the edge of the headland, where the great scientist had stood. He looked down, then called me: "Come over here." I looked down and there, caught against the base of the little cliff, was a shark that must have been dead in the hot sun for several days.
"Make anybody cry", Spang said."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"God does not play dice" Albert Einstein once said, expressing his contempt for the notion that the universe is governed by probability - an idea fundamental to quantum theory....
I'm sorry Miggidy, but those quotes are takin out of context. I can show you what I mean if you'd like.
Part of the popular picture of Einstein's God and religion comes from his well-known statements, such as: "God is cunning but He is not malicious."(Also: "God is subtle but he is not bloody-minded." Or: "God is slick, but he ain't mean." (1946)
"God does not play dice."(On many occasions.)
"I want to know how God created the world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."(Unknown date.)
It is easy to see how some got the idea that Einstein was expressing a close relationship with a personal god, but it is more accurate to say he was simply expressing his ideas and beliefs about the universe.
Einstein's "belief" in Spinoza's God is one of his most widely quoted statements. But quoted out of context, like so many of these statements, it is misleading at best. It all started when Boston's Cardinal O'Connel attacked Einstein and the General Theory of Relativity and warned the youth that the theory "cloaked the ghastly apparition of atheism" and "befogged speculation, producing universal doubt about God and His creation"(Clark, 1971, 413-414). Einstein had already experienced heavier duty attacks against his theory in the form of anti-Semitic mass meetings in Germany, and he initially ignored the Cardinal's attack. Shortly thereafter though, on April 24, 1929, Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of New York cabled Einstein to ask: "Do you believe in God?"(Sommerfeld, 1949, 103). Einstein's return message is the famous statement: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings"( 103). The Rabbi, who was intent on defending Einstein against the Cardinal, interpreted Einstein's statement in his own way when writing: "Spinoza, who is called the God-intoxicated man, and who saw God manifest in all nature, certainly could not be called an atheist. Furthermore, Einstein points to a unity. Einstein's theory if carried out to its logical conclusion would bring to mankind a scientific formula for monotheism. He does away with all thought of dualism or pluralism. There can be no room for any aspect of polytheism. This latter thought may have caused the Cardinal to speak out. Let us call a spade a spade"(Clark, 1971, 414). Both the Rabbi and the Cardinal would have done well to note Einstein's remark, of 1921, to Archbishop Davidson in a similar context about science: "It makes no difference. It is purely abstract science"(413).
The American physicist Steven Weinberg (1992), in critiquing Einstein's "Spinoza's God" statement, noted: "But what possible difference does it make to anyone if we use the word 'God' in place of 'order' or 'harmony,' except perhaps to avoid the accusation of having no God?" Weinberg certainly has a valid point, but we should also forgive Einstein for being a product of his times, for his poetic sense, and for his cosmic religious view regarding such things as the order and harmony of the universe.
In the Summer of 1945 Einstein wrote a short letter stating his position as an atheist.
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
This isnt the only time Einstein wrote such letters.
Part of the popular picture of Einstein's God and religion comes from his well-known statements, such as: "God is cunning but He is not malicious."(Also: "God is subtle but he is not bloody-minded." Or: "God is slick, but he ain't mean." (1946)
"God does not play dice."(On many occasions.)
"I want to know how God created the world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."(Unknown date.)
It is easy to see how some got the idea that Einstein was expressing a close relationship with a personal god, but it is more accurate to say he was simply expressing his ideas and beliefs about the universe.
Einstein's "belief" in Spinoza's God is one of his most widely quoted statements. But quoted out of context, like so many of these statements, it is misleading at best. It all started when Boston's Cardinal O'Connel attacked Einstein and the General Theory of Relativity and warned the youth that the theory "cloaked the ghastly apparition of atheism" and "befogged speculation, producing universal doubt about God and His creation"(Clark, 1971, 413-414). Einstein had already experienced heavier duty attacks against his theory in the form of anti-Semitic mass meetings in Germany, and he initially ignored the Cardinal's attack. Shortly thereafter though, on April 24, 1929, Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of New York cabled Einstein to ask: "Do you believe in God?"(Sommerfeld, 1949, 103). Einstein's return message is the famous statement: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings"( 103). The Rabbi, who was intent on defending Einstein against the Cardinal, interpreted Einstein's statement in his own way when writing: "Spinoza, who is called the God-intoxicated man, and who saw God manifest in all nature, certainly could not be called an atheist. Furthermore, Einstein points to a unity. Einstein's theory if carried out to its logical conclusion would bring to mankind a scientific formula for monotheism. He does away with all thought of dualism or pluralism. There can be no room for any aspect of polytheism. This latter thought may have caused the Cardinal to speak out. Let us call a spade a spade"(Clark, 1971, 414). Both the Rabbi and the Cardinal would have done well to note Einstein's remark, of 1921, to Archbishop Davidson in a similar context about science: "It makes no difference. It is purely abstract science"(413).
The American physicist Steven Weinberg (1992), in critiquing Einstein's "Spinoza's God" statement, noted: "But what possible difference does it make to anyone if we use the word 'God' in place of 'order' or 'harmony,' except perhaps to avoid the accusation of having no God?" Weinberg certainly has a valid point, but we should also forgive Einstein for being a product of his times, for his poetic sense, and for his cosmic religious view regarding such things as the order and harmony of the universe.
In the Summer of 1945 Einstein wrote a short letter stating his position as an atheist.
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
This isnt the only time Einstein wrote such letters.
"Einstein did once comment that "God does not play dice [with the universe]". This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the Christian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's refusal to accept some aspects of the most popular interpretations of quantum theory."