Boxing schedule for the month of July

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May 13, 2002
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I didn't see anything defensively that Lara did that Martinez didn't do better and Paul had no problem landing on Martinez.
Really? So Lara keeps his hands down below his waste and sticks his chin out constantly? Lara is defensively much more technically sound than Martinez. Martinez also takes rounds off to catch a breather, as he did in the middle rounds against Kelly Pavlik.

Martinez punches harder than Lara though and is quicker.

Most all of these Cuban fighters are very, very technically sound. Rigondeaux, Lara, Solis, etc. Gamboa is the only exception because he's so damn wild.
 

Tony

Sicc OG
May 15, 2002
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I agree with bigface, Paul Williams is a shot fighter. Paul did used to throw harder punches but now his punches have no pop on them. I don't think he convincingly won one round against Lara.

Paul is punch drunk now and I think he's done, he's on the path to fighting Manny Pacquiao.
 
Feb 3, 2006
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Why in the hell are people talking about adjustments and Paul Williams in the same sentence? Paul have never made any adjustments in his career. Great chin, great workrate, and some good pop to his punches. Now his chin is not so great and he lost the commitment to sit down on his punches, which was the reason why he could keep people at his range so they couldn't land punches. That was Paul's defense, now that he has no pop in his punches fighters just walk thru his arm punches like Lara and Martinez did.
 

Tony

Sicc OG
May 15, 2002
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Manny Pacquiao vs Paul Williams soon...

Paul is a shot fighter, doesn't use his height/reach, and is a big name opponent.... Right up Manny's alley.
 
May 13, 2002
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Why in the hell are people talking about adjustments and Paul Williams in the same sentence? Paul have never made any adjustments in his career.
that's why he's getting his ass beat. That's the entire point.

Great chin, great workrate, and some good pop to his punches. Now his chin is not so great and he lost the commitment to sit down on his punches, which was the reason why he could keep people at his range so they couldn't land punches.
His chin seemed pretty good to me I mean he ate like 200+ power shots and never went down. A shot fighter you'd think would have been KO'd by at least one of those bombs to the chin.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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Why in the hell are people talking about adjustments and Paul Williams in the same sentence? Paul have never made any adjustments in his career.
Because if he can make those adjustments he wouldn't be a shot fighter. If he can make adjustments, he would have better fights. Since he is either unwilling or incapable of making adjustments, he should just retire before he is seriously damaged.

Great chin, great workrate, and some good pop to his punches.
Good pop for his skill set, yes. Compared to his opponents? No.

Now his chin is not so great and he lost the commitment to sit down on his punches, which was the reason why he could keep people at his range so they couldn't land punches. That was Paul's defense, now that he has no pop in his punches fighters just walk thru his arm punches like Lara and Martinez did.
Bigface, he could have pop to his punches but if he is clearly using a style that does not compliment his physical attributes he is going to be exposed. Lara and Martinez didn't just walk past his punches, they got hit, but him not blocking those left hands would make it appear as if they are just walking in and throwing shots. He didn't use his jab, he didn't block, he didn't use his weight or height when it came to the inside.
 
Feb 3, 2006
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that's why he's getting his ass beat. That's the entire point.

His chin seemed pretty good to me I mean he ate like 200+ power shots and never went down. A shot fighter you'd think would have been KO'd by at least one of those bombs to the chin.
He's getting his ass beat because his offensive skills have diminished and now his defense is exposed even more.

Lara doesn't seem like a big puncher to me even if his KO record shows otherwise. Lara looks like he should be fighting at 147lb.
 
May 13, 2002
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bigface is incapable of any deep thoughts or breaking down why and how a fighter can beat another. It's usually "this guy is shot" because he was KO'd or "he's shot because he didn't look the same", unable to understand why he didn't look the same. Pointless discussion.
 
May 13, 2002
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He's getting his ass beat because his offensive skills have diminished and now his defense is exposed even more.

Lara doesn't seem like a big puncher to me even if his KO record shows otherwise. Lara looks like he should be fighting at 147lb.
Lara looked small against P-Will who again is about 6'3. That's tall for a light heavyweight (and is how tall David Haye and Chris Arreola are).

Lara is 5′ 9″, which is a typical height for JMW. Carlos Molina is 5′ 9″. Saul Alvarez is 5′ 9″. Mayorga is 5'9. Cotto is 5'7. Sergio Martinez is 5'10.



 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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He's getting his ass beat because his offensive skills have diminished and now his defense is exposed even more.

Lara doesn't seem like a big puncher to me even if his KO record shows otherwise. Lara looks like he should be fighting at 147lb.
He's getting his ass beat because he and his style have been exposed and he can't adjust. Throw the left hand, tie him up in the inside, use the ring to your advantage. If you can't adjust in between fights and regroup, or if you can't adjust in the ring after getting hurt, you're going to loose fights. You can have all the skills in the world, if you can't adjust you're going to lose.

Williams had a 6 inch height advantage and god knows how much of a reach advantage. At no point did I see him using these things when the tie ups came. Yes, he let loose when the tie ups came, but for a fighter with his physical attributes he fought the wrong fight.
 
Feb 3, 2006
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bigface is incapable of any deep thoughts or breaking down why and how a fighter can beat another. It's usually "this guy is shot" because he was KO'd or "he's shot because he didn't look the same", unable to understand why he didn't look the same. Pointless discussion.
206 you've been acting very bitch made lately you need to chill before I flame your Manny cheerleading ass again. I just breakdown my point of view, just because it's not in line with your faggot ass you want to talk shit. I'm promoting a discussion by giving people a different point of view unlike most of dicking riders on this site. At no time have I called you out of your name in this thread, because I don't agree with your point view. You need to grow the fuck up and understand that different people see different things. You need to just keep making excuses for Manny and let the grown folks talk.
 
May 13, 2002
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At no time have I called you out of your name in this thread, because I don't agree with your point view.
Really so you weren't specifically talking to me when you responded with "Do you watch boxing or do you just listen to the announcer and cosign everything they say."?

I got a question does Paul Williams look the same on offense since the 1st Martinez fight?
Being that he's fought two fights, Sergio Martinez and Lara, it's no surprise (he did fight kermit too but it's tough to judge how he looked in 3 rounds). Same old walk into a left hand routine. He was getting tagged with the left repeatedly in the first Martinez fight. Over and over.
 
Feb 3, 2006
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Really so you weren't specifically talking to me when you responded with "Do you watch boxing or do you just listen to the announcer and cosign everything they say."?



Being that he's fought two fights, Sergio Martinez and Lara, it's no surprise (he did fight kermit too but it's tough to judge how he looked in 3 rounds). Same old walk into a left hand routine. He was getting tagged with the left repeatedly in the first Martinez fight. Over and over.
Again did I call your bitch ass out of your name??? Did I call you dumb or stupid?? Like I said keeping making excuses for Manny and miss me with your bullshit.
 
Aug 31, 2003
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It's hard to call a guy a shot fighter when the only thing that's beating him is the same exact style/game plan that beat him when people were dubbing him "the most avoided fighter in boxing". If Williams/Pavlik gets signed or Williams/Molina those are 2 different fights and 2 fights that Williams would probably look much better in.

Since I didn't mention it at all .. the HBO commentary on the fight was completely ridiculous.

1. RJJ talking about a guy should retire cause he's taking a beating.
2. One of the rounds I gave to Williams was late in the fight when they were saying Williams is about to drop dead.
3. It's FUCKING boxing! I'm not a fan of prolonged beatings or brain injuries but this is the business of boxing and that commentary was just insane.
 
May 13, 2002
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Lara-Williams rematch? Don't count on it
ESPN


The stench of Saturday night's Erislandy Lara-Paul Williams decision has not gone away. And by the way, I will refer to the fight as Lara-Williams in protest of a fight that Lara is almost universally regarded to have won, despite what the judges said.

To refresh your memory: Lara beat Williams to the punch all night long. He landed left hands almost at will. He busted Williams up. He was -- in the view of HBO's announcers, media row, the vocal crowd at Boardwalk Hall's Adrian Phillips Ballroom in Atlantic City, N.J., and virtually everyone else who saw the fight -- the rightful winner by a good margin.

Yet judges Hilton Whitaker (115-114) and Don Givens (116-114) absurdly scored it for Williams, while Al Bennett was almost as bad in scoring it 114-114.

Simply put, this decision has been derided as one of the worst boxing has seen in years. It was incomprehensible. This was not just one of those close fights that could have gone either way. No, this was a clear-as-day win for Lara. Even if you gave every possible benefit of the doubt to Williams, maybe you could score it 115-113 for Lara. Not a draw. And certainly there is no reasonable way to actually have Williams winning.

Even Williams didn't appear to genuinely think he won, no matter what he said during his postfight interview with HBO analyst Max Kellerman. Fighters know in their hearts whether they won or lost a fight. Look at the video. Williams, with a half-hearted fist pump when the fight was over, sure didn't act like a guy who thought he won.

There was a reason why trainer George Peterson was telling Williams he needed a knockout to win long before the 12th round.

A few hours after the fight, I ran into Williams in Caesars Atlantic City. He was all by himself. He had on dark glasses, a white bandage over his eye where he had gotten stitched up, and was sipping on a soda. We talked for a couple of minutes. He certainly did not look or sound like a guy who really thought he had won, or like a guy who had just made about $1.5 million compared to the $135,000 chump change Lara received. What really bugs me -- and HBO's Harold Lederman did a great job of pointing this out -- is that none of the judges for the fight were experienced at the top level of boxing or are considered among New Jersey's best judges. I can see a commission giving a shot to a less-seasoned judge in a high-profile fight -- but not an entire panel of judges with minimal experience scoring main events under such a microscope. That's not acceptable, especially when there are several qualified judges who work regularly in the state.

And it doesn't help that each judge worked several fights on the card, so their concentration might have been tapped by the time the main event rolled around. Each of the judges had worked five previous bouts on the card.

Furthermore, if you examine the scorecards, Whitaker and Givens actually scored the 12th and final round 10-10. Even rounds are not all that common. But to score the final round of a major fight even is ridiculous. The judges are paid to make that tough call. So make it.

Keep in mind, in no way do I blame Williams for the decision. I have nothing but respect for the man. He has been a tremendous fighter for several years. He has a big heart and usually makes entertaining fights. Saturday was no different.

Golden Boy's Richard Schaefer, Lara's promoter, was livid about the result, which should come as no surprise.

"When you see a young, undefeated star convincingly win almost every round against one of the best fighters in the world and then have the judges take the fight away from him, it's very disturbing, not only as his promoter, but also as a boxing fan," Schaefer said.

Naturally, Lara asked for a rematch following the fight, and Williams should give him one. Schaefer also hoped to get his fighter a second fight with Williams.

"We hope that Williams and his promoter, Dan Goossen, will give Lara a much-deserved rematch to settle the controversy that has erupted since Saturday night's decision," Schaefer said. "If Williams chooses not to fight Lara again, Erislandy is ready to fight anyone, anywhere and at any time, and we will make sure that he gets the opportunities he deserves in the wake of his spectacular performance in Atlantic City."

But don't count on a rematch unless HBO, which has televised Williams' fights for years, puts the pressure on the fighter, Goossen and Al Haymon, Williams' adviser.

At this point, the Williams camp has no intention of making a rematch. Goossen knows Williams has a hard time dealing with southpaws.

Williams couldn't handle Lara. Middleweight champ Sergio Martinez, also a left-hander, gave Williams an exceptionally tough fight in their 2009 first meeting and lost a controversial decision. Of course, in November, Martinez knocked Williams cold in the second round. And there is also lefty Carlos Quintana, who hung the first loss on Williams before getting knocked out in the first round in their rematch.

The Williams camp doesn't want to see Lara again, nor any other lefty, because Williams simply can't avoid a straight left hand or an overhand left. Peterson has never been able to correct that flaw in Williams' game.

Immediately after Lara-Williams, Goossen was already looking for a way to avoid Lara again. He called a representative for Carlos Molina, who had easily dominated Kermit Cintron on Showtime in a big upset on Saturday night's other major televised card. Goossen wanted to gauge the interest in Molina next facing Williams. The reason he figured it made sense: Molina and Lara fought to a controversial draw in March. But Williams facing Molina will just be a reminder that he and his team are running from a tough sequel.

How times have changed, considering that for so long Goossen pitched Williams as boxing's "most feared fighter."

Besides getting saddled with an undeserved loss, Lara suffered a small facial fracture due to an accidental head-butt. Trainer/cutman Miguel Diaz did a tremendous job of keeping the swelling down. But when the fracture was diagnosed at the hospital after the fight, Lara's night continued to get worse.

Lara was told by the doctor that because of the fracture, he should not fly for about six weeks.

That left Golden Boy's Dave Itskowitch to change Lara's travel plans.

Lara had to drive a rental car all the way back to Florida.

The "loss" was bad enough, but talk about adding insult to injury.