18 Year old burns flag and goes to court! Real american HERO or real american FOOL?

[FunK-3-FivE]

YOU are in those pockets of people. YOU have the freedom to do whatever you damn well like, because this country values liberty above all else. Next time you read anything besides the koran, or buy a condom - instead count your blessings as to how fortunate you are to be able to do such trivial things. And after you do that, shut the fuck up.

LOL since when are these things trivial?

I'm sorry you must be from the south.

It's very obvious liberty isn't valued above all things.
It's insane how Americans think they have oh so much freedom and liberty to do as they please... try living in Western Europe and you will see just how much supposed freedom you have in America to do as you please. lol. ignorant masses. wake up.

 

[Joe DiMaggio]

Quick geography lesson America = the land between Mexico and Canada, how you came to the conclusion that I hate this land leaves me baffled.. its the goverment i have problems with!

That's twice you've created a semantic strawman. Your debate tactics are childish, your ad hominem sucks, and I don't know who you're trying to impress because you look like an ignorant twat. If you don't feel like debating, go masturbate.

That being said: I was referring to the USA, since "America" is often used in place of "United States." You know, I know it, and my statement still stands - you hate it and will say anything in the course of a dialogue to convince yourself that it's evil.

Learn about the history of the United states in Latin America & Africa. I don't feel the need to get specific, it's pretty obvious if you know the history.

I'm glad you decided to post so much proof, I was just overwhelmed.

Since your whole argument was "It's obvious," - I'll counter with "No, it's not obvious. It's propaganda and urban legend easily exposed by actual statistics."

Thanks for the history lesson on lawyers... But you act as if money is the only incentive there is.. let me give you a history lesson.. Back in the day on the land we now call AMERICA there lived tribes of native people.. each of these native people had a job, they worked together and equally distributed the wealth amongst each other..

You are a stupid fucking idiot. Native society was based on barter and trade, some were definitely more well off than others.

If anything there's something for you leftist authoritarian louts to learn from - that charity in it's entirety was based on the empathy of the individual, NOT coerced, usurped or forced, AND absolutely privatized. Like I said earlier, ask the average homeless person who he prefers - state homes or church homes. Of course you completely dodged that point.

Stop posting.

I ain't read a word of adam smith or any other capitalist writers and I ain't read a word of karl marx/lenin/ect..

I don't really care what got china to where it is today,
I still think that if you go over there and exploit

You are, again, a total idiot. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, if china had embraced the system you viciously attack, these oppressed people would be experiencing a higher quality of life. I gave the examples of other countries, and some background theory.

You saw fit to ignore all that to repeat yourself.

Stop posting.

Nah, but i think a lot of CEO's are saying "Nyah HA HA, I LOVE seeing POVERTY, BECAUSE IT'S KEEPING ME RICH AND MAKING ME RICHER"

Like I've said at least 4 times by now, if China proper and the U.S. would come to their senses and encourage free trade, rather than regulate it and choke it to death - Mr. CEO would have competitors lowering prices and increasing wages. He would in turn do the same, and the people would benefit.

That's a lot easier than burning down embassies, killing people, and demanding authority give you a free handout. NOBODY is arguing the ethical virtue of executive officers and entrepreneurs. I've given examples and background theory as to why pitting them against eachother in a free market will benefit the poor.

If the poor are being oppressed, it's by those who simply have no understanding of economics, which you just admitted.

Stop posting.

 

[KleanKut]

I wipe my ass every day with miniature Amerikkkan flags. Too many good people have been murdered, raped, enslaved, tortured, imprisoned, diseased, and oppressed all in the name of that piece of shit flag.

The flag no longer represents freedom; it represents globalization, war, greed and death.

Good then get the fuck out of the country that the flag flies over.

 

[Joe DiMaggio]

Things are going to change in our government soon, either that or you'll see it's downfall.

Nonsense. When 60% of the populatin can't even be bothered to vote?

try living in Western Europe and you will see just how much supposed freedom you have in America to do as you please. lol. ignorant masses. wake up.

You mean Spain, where any alcohol consumption, even a .01% level, restricts you from driving? Or France where a bill is being passed prohibiting moslem women from wearing hijab in public? Or in Amsterdam, where pot is legal but it costs $10,000 to get a motorcycle license and $1500 for a driver's license?

You are a stupid, stupid person.

WHY DID YOU IGNORE MY ENTIRE RESPONSE TO YOU ON THE FLAGBURNING SUBJECT???

 

[Joe DiMaggio]

the dollars that are made do not go back into their economy, they go into ours.

That's why the goal of "globalization" is a "global" economy. It's not going to happen overnight.

second, the problem with child labor is that it takes away any chance for that child to recieve an education, and better the country that they live in. think about it. although they may have what seems like material wealth (although more often than not, they are still living in poverty levels) they are forsaking an education that may someday benefit their own country, and inhibit their ability to promote their own industries, and govern their own economies.

thirdly, our massive amounts of labor laws drives up the cost of doing business here in the US, which DOES drive companies overseas. Under perfect competition and applying the concept of Ricardian Comparative Advantage, it would be simply foolish to expect US companies to pay a higher price for labor in this country when there are cheaper alternatives available. The problem with this that I see is that while it may be cheaper to produce some things in another country, it is because of that country's lack of labor laws protecting their own workers, sometimes as the result of close ties between corrupt governments and US businesses. One way to think of this is Sex tourism. If you have sex with a 12 year old girl (or boy) in the US, you're a fucking pedophile. Just because it's not against the law in another country doesn't make u any less of a pedophile if you do it there.

You could have skipped all of that and said "Child labor is a problem."

Somebody wants to masturbate to what they just learned in poly-sci.

 

[Mac Jesus]

That's twice you've created a semantic strawman. Your debate tactics are childish, your ad hominem sucks, and I don't know who you're trying to impress because you look like an ignorant twat. If you don't feel like debating, go masturbate.

That being said: I was referring to the USA, since "America" is often used in place of "United States." You know, I know it, and my statement still stands - you hate it and will say anything in the course of a dialogue to convince yourself that it's evil.

Did you really think I didn't know you were talking about the USA -- the land between Mexico and canada... :\ As I just said - its the government I hate.

I'm glad you decided to post so much proof, I was just overwhelmed.

Since your whole argument was "It's obvious," - I'll counter with "No, it's not obvious. It's propaganda and urban legend easily exposed by actual statistics."

Learn about the history -- i'm not here to teach you shit. You could probably find information as easily as I could by searching in google.. there's probably even been threads on the siccness, try using the search option.

I ain't going to throw facts at you so you can say "THATS LEFTIST PROPAGANDA BULLSHIT STOP POSTING IT"

I mean come on, i'm talking to the same guy who claims not one muslim was persecuted after 9/11.

You are a stupid fucking idiot. Native society was based on barter and trade, some were definitely more well off than others.

I don't know if you've learned anything about the native people.. i wouldn't be suprised since they aren't white.. but the barter/trade thing started when teh white man came, the natives didn't even fully understand it.. they had no concept of private property.. so when they traded with the white man and they needed it back for whatever reasons, they would just go take it and use it.. thats where we get the term "indian giver"

Like I said earlier, ask the average homeless person who he prefers - state homes or church homes. Of course you completely dodged that point.

Thats irrelevant because the state as it is currently doesn't give a shit about the homeless.

You are, again, a total idiot. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, if china had embraced the system you viciously attack, these oppressed people would be experiencing a higher quality of life. I gave the examples of other countries, and some background theory.

You saw fit to ignore all that to repeat yourself.

Stop posting.

You just don't understand -- you can't blame china or whatever other country a sweatshop is in for the explotation that takes place when a CEO decides to set up shop in that country because they can pay the workers less money. Sure it's great that these companies are coming in and giving these people jobs but they are paying them pennies.. these people still don't have enough to eat, still aren't able to afford proper education, and still aren't making shit.. meanwhile the companies that run these sweatshops are making billions of dollars.

Perhaps if china was more socialistic, and allowed strikes and more workers rights shit would change.

In the meantime companies can go in there and exploit the fact the people are poor continue paying them chump change and continue to make billions of dollars.

Like I've said at least 4 times by now, if China proper and the U.S. would come to their senses and encourage free trade, rather than regulate it and choke it to death - Mr. CEO would have competitors lowering prices and increasing wages. He would in turn do the same, and the people would benefit.

That's a lot easier than burning down embassies, killing people, and demanding authority give you a free handout. NOBODY is arguing the ethical virtue of executive officers and entrepreneurs. I've given examples and background theory as to why pitting them against eachother in a free market will benefit the poor.

If the poor are being oppressed, it's by those who simply have no understanding of economics, which you just admitted.

Yeaaah I admitted I don't know very much about economics... but you don't need a grasp on economics to know that if your paying people pennies to make products that you sell for hundreds of dollars and make billions of dollars off of.. meanwhile the people making your products barely have enough as it is even though their life is dedicated to wroking in your factory, making shit for you, that it's unethical and wrong.... your not addressing that issue.. except for saying that if other companies were allowed to move in the competition would thrive more.. but it's not like both pepsi and coke aren't allowed in latin america.. it's not like there isn't different corporations in these countries with different sweatshops paying people shit all and making billions.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Good then get the fuck out of the country that the flag flies over.

I may just do that one day.

But on the other hand, I enjoy relaxing next to a hot fire in my own home, in Amerika, drinking tea while inbreds like you risk their lives for rich old white men. I find it rather comical that the utmost patriotic Amerikans, such as you, are the ones being exploited the most, but the funniest part is, you don’t even know it.

I wonder what your comrade was thinking after he got shot, staring up in the sky. Was he thinking, "At least I died so that the rich can get richer!"

 

[Stealth]

^^^^^^^^
Kinda like during the Civil war, which was started by business owners in the north and business owners in the south (if any of you remotely believe it had to do with the ethics of slavery, I feel bad for you). The rich started the war, and then they PAID POOR MOTHERFUCKERS WHO NEEDED THE MONEY to fight in their place.

That's the greatest example of exploiting the poor I can think of off the top of my head. How is that fair? I'm going to pay you to die in my place because I can afford it, and once you poor motherfuckers win the war for me, and I'm still alive, I'm going to reap all of the profits.

 

[D-Boy]

That's why the goal of "globalization" is a "global" economy. It's not going to happen overnight.



You could have skipped all of that and said "Child labor is a problem."

Somebody wants to masturbate to what they just learned in poly-sci.

wow, I didn't attack you in any way, and yet you want to belittle my opinion. Thank you.

And the problem of a "global" economy is that there are still barriers to trade, and it requires that every country pariticipate in it and receive equal footing. This is not happening. You're right, it's not going to happen overnight, but I think you're missing the point I was trying to make which is that globalization can reduce an ecnomy's ability for growth, and thus dimishes the overall goal of approaching a true "global" market and economy.

And not just child labor, but all forms of labor protections. I just chose one to focus on. There are still other problems like lack of environmental protections, workplace protections, and health protections. You hardly responded to what I said about how exporting capital reduces an economy's ability to fend for themselves economically.

 

[KleanKut]

I may just do that one day.

But on the other hand, I enjoy relaxing next to a hot fire in my own home, in Amerika, drinking tea while inbreds like you risk their lives for rich old white men. I find it rather comical that the utmost patriotic Amerikans, such as you, are the ones being exploited the most, but the funniest part is, you don’t even know it.

I wonder what your comrade was thinking after he got shot, staring up in the sky. Was he thinking, "At least I died so that the rich can get richer!"

well the sooner you leave the better. And i am happy you are in the comfert of your own home, by a fire, sipping tea. I fight for the ones i love as well as the scum of the earth who all call america home. I will risk my life in any theater of combat where their is a greater good for our nation or another. I will look back on these times when im on my deathbed (could be tomarrow) with pride. I might stand up for what you belive is corrupt and evil. I will stand for it no matter what anyone else thinks, in my heart i know it is right. However one of the only things i respect about you, is you are doing the same on the other side of the spectrum and stick to your guns with undiing determination. Though i feel your views are twisted and weak, i commend you for standing up for them.

 

[HERESY]

I dont see where we are having the misunderstanding Heresy it seems to make perfect sense to me. Is it the comment about genocide?

The following makes perfect sense to you?


"Last time I checked though someone burning the flag isnt tryin to change much, just get punched out...something they would deserve...theres a lot more creative ways to change things then burning the symbolic pride of our country"


Making a political statement deserves violence? It's the american way!



"...and you talk about genocide this and genocide that and how its all Americas fault,"



This makes perfect sense to you? Are you denying the fact that america HAS been involved in MANY genocides?


"but then when America doesnt intervene its also there fault..."


WHEN has america intervened?


"its only not our fault when everything goes pretty much flawless, and then we dont even get a thank you..."



Pretty much flawless? LMAO! What has america done that is pretty much flawless? What type of statement is that????



"so think twice about the fact that we have stability and security and a great way of life and change things without burning something hundreds of thousands of people have died for..."


Why should anyone here think twice about a flag that was created while minorities were in bondage? Hundreds of thousands of people (natives, afrikans) have died because of what the flag represents so maybe you should think twice....

Stability? LMAO! Security? ROFL!


"there are proper vechicles for changing governments in democracy called voting...the unfortunate thing is most of the people who want a change in government DONT VOTE...real chop."


IF YOU BELIEVE THE GLOBAL ELITE WILL ALLOW THE COMMON MAN TO DECIDE THE LEADERSHIP OF THE RICHEST AND MOST ADVANCED COUNTRY ON THE GLOBE, BY PUNCHING A HOLE NEXT TO A NAME PRINTED ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD YOU'RE AN IDIOT.


What will voting get you? It MIGHT help in your local government but what will it do on a national level? Why should anyone vote when the candidates are all part of the same network (C.F.R and T.L.C)? Whats the difference between two candidates who both hold membership with Skull & Bones?

 

[Turf Hitta]

Making a political statement deserves violence? It's the american way!

So is murder. Especially unjustified murder.

What will voting get you? It MIGHT help in your local government but what will it do on a national level? Why should anyone vote when the candidates are all part of the same network (C.F.R and T.L.C)? Whats the difference between two candidates who both hold membership with Skull & Bones?

Whats the CFR and the TLC?

 

[HERESY]

Council on Foreign Relations (C.F.R)

Trilateral Commission (T.L.C)

 

[MaddDogg]

@ Heresy

Political Statements dont deserve violents, but disrespectful ones do...if you were black and the Ku Klux Klan lit a cross in your front yard, you wouldnt pop them in the jaw?

I cant think of America committing a genocide in the defined terms of that action, which most people describe as systematic destruction of a particular demographic of people who share the same race, religion or ethnicity. There are instances in American history that hold some characteristics of genocide such as supporting dictators, rebels, etc. in the Cold War, but were indirect...one could say that the conflict with Native Americans was genocide and I could see where that would come from, but most historians/biologists, etc. agree that disease probably killed up to 80% of the native american population, not combat...besides that, there are very few countries in the world that havent committed genocide, the reason our appear so obvious because as one of the biggest and most internationally important actors our actions have been magnified...very few nations especially developed and Western nations havent committed genocide...im not defending our policies which affected people for the worse but I have a difficult time calling it genocide.

When has America Intervened: Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Iraq, Panama, the Balkans, etc. For better or for worse. Whose fault was it when these things went wrong? Americas. Heres an example of when America didnt intervene: Rwanda...and then whose fault was it? Americas...even if we would have intervened and possibly made things worse like we did in the Balkans...btw, a lot of the racial division, covert operations between the Hutus and Tutsi's in Rwanda came from the French, but you dont hear anyone calling them Imperialists or accuse them of committing Genocide.

I guess flawless would be referring to the strategy and outcomes of World War I and World War II when America pretty much tipped the scale towards victory for the free world and saved half of Europe...also the reconstruction efforts in Post World War II Germany and Japan, which were torn to shreds and have emerged as two of the richest countries in the world...also the Marshal Plan. And then theres the first Iraq war where we undertook a very successful police action and saved Kuwait.

As far as the flag being built on the bondage of minorites, I cant dispute history...but then again I cant dispute the fact that most of us live here because they enjoy the lifestyle and quality of life...including minorities who also put their life on the line for the flag even though they know this history.

As far as voting, people need to stop blaming the system and start blaming themselves...you had a candidate in John Kerry who was not going to withdrawl from Iraq immediately because it would be a big mistake, but was prepared to phase things out much faster and also negotiate moving in an arab coalition of troops to help stabilize Baghdad...he was ready to handle N. Korea much differently and more politically correct, and was not going to draw us into another conflict. He was also domestically liberal and prepared to put more effort into changing things at home and raising taxes but only on the top 1 percent of tax payers...he was also committed to saving social security, no strings attached, and, given the age of a lot of the federal and supreme court justices, would have appointed a number of domestically left judges...so, there was really a lot on the table...if you want to argue that Kerry was a BAD candidate then this argument holds less weight, but if especially compared to the alternative, the fact that he did have a substantial base of support and that there werent a lot of other great candidates out there that holds some weight too. Personally if I were the dems I would have ran Wesly Clark or Obama even though he wasnt considered...but anyways...ask yourself these questions:

How many more people voted this election than last election?
A: Roughly the same, 60% which means 40% didnt vote.

How much more of the pie did Bush get than last time?
A: roughly 3 or 4 percent, in numbers over a million votes.

What minority group is the largest in the United States?
A: Latinos.

What political ideology do Latinos and most minority Americans identify with typically?
A: Liberal

Is Bush a Liberal:
A: No.

Did Latinos vote more for Bush this election than last election?
A: yes.

Did all the young people that were supposed to "Rock the Vote" show up?
A: No.

Did all the Black people who were supposed to "Rock the Vote" show up?
A: No.

Why do Republicans pray for bad weather on election day?
BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WONT VOTE!

 

[Mike Manson]

I don't wanna get into y'all lil' argument, I just have one question for DiMaggio: You talk about China, Spain, Netherlands, France, etc., so I wanna know if you have been to all these countries??? I have been and am currently living in China as I also lived in the states and I don't know about most of the things you said...! I just know, that I have more freedom here in China right now as I had in the States...

 

[Stealth]

well the sooner you leave the better. And i am happy you are in the comfert of your own home, by a fire, sipping tea. I fight for the ones i love as well as the scum of the earth who all call america home. I will risk my life in any theater of combat where their is a greater good for our nation or another. I will look back on these times when im on my deathbed (could be tomarrow) with pride. I might stand up for what you belive is corrupt and evil. I will stand for it no matter what anyone else thinks, in my heart i know it is right. However one of the only things i respect about you, is you are doing the same on the other side of the spectrum and stick to your guns with undiing determination. Though i feel your views are twisted and weak, i commend you for standing up for them.

Quite possibly the most respectable thing said in this entire post. It would be a much more engaging conversation if people had this type of attitude. Learn a thing or two from this.

 

[Joe DiMaggio]

Did you really think I didn't know you were talking about the USA --

Lets review what you said in regards to this, and evaluate whether you're an idiot.

Quick geography lesson America = the land between Mexico and Canada, how you came to the conclusion that I hate this land leaves me baffled..

Yup, you're an idiot. So you claim to have known what I was talking about the entire time, but you felt compelled to debate fucking geographic labels? For what reason? The last time I've witnessed an oration so pointless was when I saw a bum arguing with an invisible dog. Stop posting.

Learn about the history -- i'm not here to teach you shit. You could probably find information as easily as I could by searching in google.. there's probably even been threads on the siccness, try using the search option.

Do you realize that the burden of proof is on he who asserts?

"I assert that clouds are made of cheese. Don't believe me? Well THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! I'm not here to teach you shit. You could probably find information as easily as I could by searching in google..there's probably even been threads on the siccness, try using the search option."

Your brain truly is a bubbling cauldron of monkey shit.

I ain't going to throw facts at you so you can say "THATS LEFTIST PROPAGANDA BULLSHIT STOP POSTING IT"

How's about you quote some actual facts instead of biased op/ed published by self admitted biased news sources? You don't see me try to pass off Newsmax as anything but opinion, I'd appreciate if you would get your head out of your asshole and do the same.

I mean come on, i'm talking to the same guy who claims not one muslim was persecuted after 9/11.

Oh I said that? Well why didn't you quote me? Oh that's right, I never said that so you can't. You used to stretch the facts to create strawmen, at least you're cutting the crap and just lying now. Far more effective in destroying your credibility.

I don't know if you've learned anything about the native people.. i wouldn't be suprised since they aren't white.. but the barter/trade thing started when teh white man came, the natives didn't even fully understand it.. they had no concept of private property.. so when they traded with the white man and they needed it back for whatever reasons, they would just go take it and use it.. thats where we get the term "indian giver"

Where do you learn history? Sesame street? Old wives tales and washwoman fables are not historical facts. Lets take a look at what recorded history as taught by university tells us:

During the thousands of years preceding European contact, the Native American people developed inventive and creative cultures. They cultivated plants for food, dyes, medicines, and textiles; domesticated animals; established extensive patterns of trade;

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/native_voices/nav1.html <--- From the University of Houston

Why do you quote horse shit? Please do quote facts. Please do not quote horse shit.

Thats irrelevant because the state as it is currently doesn't give a shit about the homeless.

If you're telling me that private shelters, church and non-church run, have more money invested in them all combined than government subsidized shelters - then I truly believe you're mentally retarded.

You just don't understand -- you can't blame china or whatever other country a sweatshop is in for the explotation that takes place when a CEO decides to set up shop in that country because they can pay the workers less money.

I HAVE EXPLAINED 5.....FUCKING......TIMES, AND QUOTED HISTORICAL PRECEDENT....THAT THE MOST...

No fuck that. You're obviously Rain Man, so I'm going to explain it without anything even RESEMBLING complication:

1) Man poor.
2) Company give him job!!
3) Job pay too low tho!!!!!! Prices too high on goods!!!
4) More company come to land!
5) Companies compete!! Wowow!!
6) New company pay more!!! Lower price!!!
7) Old company have no choice, pay more!! Lower price again!!
8) Man not poor!!

You are a dimwitted gob of chicken spunk if you cannot see that competing companies will help the poor. Their own indigenous economies offer them jobs which pay 10x LESS than what these "greedy" companies offer - so obviously leaving them alone isn't going to help anything. Would the arab nations still have an influx of cash if they just traded with eachother?

IF YOU ALLOWED THE GREEDY CEOS TO COMPETE WITH ONE ANOTHER FREELY (THATS WHY ITS CALLED "FREE TRADE), WITHOUT GOVERNMENT INFLUENCE, REGULATION AND DISCOURAGING TARIFFS - THEY WOULD HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO OFFER DECENT WAGES IN THESE COMPANIES. THIS INSTANTLY SOLVES THE PROBLEM NEATLY WITHOUT HAVING TO TAX PEOPLE TO DEATH FOR HAVING THE NERVE TO SUCCEED, YOU MORON.

Perhaps if china was more socialistic, and allowed strikes and more workers rights shit would change.

China wasn't a socialist state for half a fucking century? So the entire country was a big cotton candy field of dreams during the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's? Child labor wasn't a huge problem? Mao ZEDONG RESPECTED HUMAN RIGHTS?!

What in the blue fucking blazes do you think got their country into a rut of poverty in the first fucking place, exactly??

Yeaaah I admitted I don't know very much about economics...

Then why are you arguing something you haven't the first clue about?

but you don't need a grasp on economics to know that if your paying people pennies to make products that you sell for hundreds of dollars and make billions of dollars off of.. meanwhile the people making your products barely have enough as it is even though their life is dedicated to wroking in your factory, making shit for you, that it's unethical and wrong....

I explained 6 times now how this issue would rectify itself in a free market.

your not addressing that issue..

I've addressed it 6 times.

except for saying that if other companies were allowed to move in the competition would thrive more..

And what's a consequence of competion, you twat? That's right, higher wages, and lower price of goods.

but it's not like both pepsi and coke aren't allowed in latin america..

If coke and pepsi weren't allowed in Latin America, I'm sure there would be so many indigenous jobs to improve conditions, right? What did the arabs do before oil trade that was so prosperous again? Oh that's right, they were hunter/gatherer bedouins who were lucky to farm dates. What a grand standard of living they enjoyed.

it's not like there isn't different corporations in these countries with different sweatshops paying people shit all and making billions.

Please cite one single example. No scratch that. Just stop posting.

Edit:

mean come on, i'm talking to the same guy who claims not one muslim was persecuted after 9/11.

I then challenged Mac Jesus to point out where exactly I ever said that. He responded with:

There was no backlash in the United States after 9/11 towards moslem citizens. It's an urban legend that moslems were persecuted, beaten, imprisoned, etc

That's a pretty far fucking cry from "Not one moslem was persecuted after 9/11."

I further clarified my position by saying, several times, "I'm not interested in a few nutjobs here and there. Show me evidence of a systematic, massive backlash." Why did you leave that part out, mac Jesus?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

And i am happy you are in the comfert of your own home, by a fire, sipping tea. I fight for the ones i love as well as the scum of the earth who all call america home. I will risk my life in any theater of combat where their is a greater good for our nation or another. I will look back on these times when im on my deathbed (could be tomarrow) with pride. I might stand up for what you belive is corrupt and evil. I will stand for it no matter what anyone else thinks, in my heart i know it is right. However one of the only things i respect about you, is you are doing the same on the other side of the spectrum and stick to your guns with undiing determination. Though i feel your views are twisted and weak, i commend you for standing up for them.

If you came at me with respect like this before I wouldn’t have much of a problem with you, but unfortunately this is the first time you’ve shown any respect towards me. With that being said, no matter how respectful you attempt to be on an internet message board, you will continue to disrespect all Amerikans while you maintain your service in Iraq and uphold the attitude that killing Iraqi’s is somehow beneficial to the world and freedom. You may believe in your heart that you’re on the side of right, but just remember soldier- so do the Iraqi insurgence, the suicide bombers, and every other person trying to blow your comrades heads off. The difference, IMO, is that one side is fighting to expand their empire, while the other is defending their homeland so that they can call it their own.

 

[Mac Jesus]

Do you realize that the burden of proof is on he who asserts?

"I assert that clouds are made of cheese. Don't believe me? Well THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! I'm not here to teach you shit. You could probably find information as easily as I could by searching in google..there's probably even been threads on the siccness, try using the search option."

Your brain truly is a bubbling cauldron of monkey shit.

You are the only one who would be jumping up and down in a fit wanting to see proof that clouds really are made of cheese. My replies to you are based on the fact that it gives me 10 minutes to kill before work... i'm not going to post a indepth reply on history for someone who didn't bother to learn it. If you want to know about the USA's role in Latin America or Africa.... go look it up.

Oh I said that? Well why didn't you quote me? Oh that's right, I never said that so you can't. You used to stretch the facts to create strawmen, at least you're cutting the crap and just lying now. Far more effective in destroying your credibility.

There was no backlash in the United States after 9/11 towards moslem citizens. It's an urban legend that moslems were persecuted, beaten, imprisoned, etc

During the thousands of years preceding European contact, the Native American people developed inventive and creative cultures. They cultivated plants for food, dyes, medicines, and textiles; domesticated animals; established extensive patterns of trade;

Tribes would trade with different tribes, and then move on. But within each tribe the wealth was distributed equally.

1) Man poor.
2) Company give him job!!
3) Job pay too low tho!!!!!! Prices too high on goods!!!
4) More company come to land!
5) Companies compete!! Wowow!!
6) New company pay more!!! Lower price!!!
7) Old company have no choice, pay more!! Lower price again!!
8) Man not poor!!

I don't see how you can jusitfy the fact that the poor guy doesn't get paid enough due to the fact that there isn't enough competition. Off the top of my head in CHina I know that Adidas, Reebok, Nike, Wal-mart, K-mart, JC PENNY, Disney, Ralph Laruen, Sears, all use sweatshops in china... and these are just the ones I know about off the top of my head.... how many companies should there be before the competition starts thriving?

China wasn't a socialist state for half a fucking century? So the entire country was a big cotton candy field of dreams during the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's? Child labor wasn't a huge problem? Mao ZEDONG RESPECTED HUMAN RIGHTS?!

What in the blue fucking blazes do you think got their country into a rut of poverty in the first fucking place, exactly??

I know I already said I don't know much about economics, but I do know that Socialism is supposed to be about workers rights.. What kind of workers rights are there in china, or even communist china when it was run by MAO? I'm asking you an honest question because I don't know - and from the socialist/communists i have spoken with China was not ever communist. But then again, when I talk to some capitalist/libertarian friends they tell me that the USA is socialist not capitalist.. so this economic shit can get confusing when you have people claiming one economic ideology and saying this country that history books tell us are apart of this economy are really not. All I know is that right now in China it's against the law for workers to even discuss organizing a strike.. that doesn't sound very socialistic to me.

 

[Joe DiMaggio]

not going to post a indepth reply on history

I'm finding it unbelievably hard to believe you've even graduated high school. That you claim to not have the time to cite references gives you carte blanch to say whatever you want? And not have it questioned? Do you understand the principles of debate? Do you understand english? I didn't ask you to solve pi while doing a handstand. I asked you to provide a concrete example of malicious moral turpitude specifically towards the Latin American civilian population.

I find it absolutely hilarious how you can find the time argue the semantics of the word "America," but can't cite one salient example here. It's not because you "don't have the time," it's because you don't have the sources.

By your logic, a mormon can come here and assert that Jesus Christ was in Utah last century and not be questioned. There's only one universal truth which comes to mind which is beyond inquiriry - and that is that you are a moron.

for someone who didn't bother to learn it. If you want to know about the USA's role in Latin America or Africa.... go look it up.

I did. There are no instances of U.S. oppression.

Tribes would trade with different tribes, and then move on.

NO SHIT? Well then why did you say:

but the barter/trade thing started when teh white man came,

But within each tribe the wealth was distributed equally.

Oh! So you went from arguing that there was no such "barter/trade thing" before the white man came to arguing that there WAS a barter/trade thing. Just that they distributed wealth.

Well I find it nowhere in historical text that all wealth was equally distritbuted, but I am finding that there was a value system in place promoting strong community ties. However there was no coercion, or forced redistribution of wealth. I find no instances in history of a native american being ostracized or punished for refusing to share what he earned, in no textbook do I find that, and on no website.

Rather, this plays right into my point. There was a private, community based value system. Privatized charity? Hmmm, doesn't that sound like CAPITALISM? Well not to you, since you self admittedly know nothing about it.

I don't see how you can jusitfy the fact that the poor guy doesn't get paid enough due to the fact that there isn't enough competition.

I can justify it because it's made first world nations out many nations, the foremost examples being Japan and Germany - who made it with less of a head start than China ever will. What natural resources has Japan EVER had besides fish?

Off the top of my head in CHina I know that Adidas, Reebok, Nike, Wal-mart, K-mart, JC PENNY, Disney, Ralph Laruen, Sears, all use sweatshops in china...

And the economy, along with the standard of living, has increased steadily since reform shifted away from total nationalization (socialism) in 1979. Was China more of an economic factory in the late 70's or now? In spite of the growing population, living standard is also increasing.

My question to you: Look at Japan. Look at China. One is profitable and enjoys a first world living standard. The other does not. How many die by starvation? Compare. The answer is one embraces free trade, and the other does not.

and from the socialist/communists i have spoken with China was not ever communist.

Well then just what in the hell was it? Baseball and apple pie capitalism? Was wealth forcefully redistributed in the name of the worker? Yes. The fact that it didn't work out exactly how Marx would have wanted it is a fucking excuse. Communism is tried over and over and over again, starting with only the best of intentions and ending only in failure. Each and every fucking time the excuse is "Well that wasn't communist," or "well that wasn't socialist."

What exactly does that tell you?