UFC 104 - Machida vs Shogun Oct 24
- Thread starter BROWN GUERRERO
- Start date
ok, i watched the fight at a sports bar with a group of guys i train with from my school. couldn't hear the announcements, only could SEE the fights. when the fight ended, ALL of us were dumbfounded when they announced machida won. and i like machida and wanted him to win. all this was saturday. sunday i read, ethereals post (above) and wanted to get on here and dog him. las night i got to my girls house where she had the fight dvr'd and i watched it again. now alot of yall might get on my line bout wut i'm bout to say, but ethereal is RIGHT. i watched the shit again, CLOSELY. yea, rua had some devastating kiccs, devastating to machidas rib area. yea he welted machidas thighs, mostly by knees when they were clenched up against the cage. but almost 90% of the time rua attacced, machida countered. almost EVERY kicc to machidas ribs, machida countered with a punch. 90% of the time. PLUS machida got him a couple rounds with some real solid knees when rua shot in. machida also had two or three good combo flurries during the fight which rua didn't come bacc with. whenever rua would kicc and machida would counter, joe rogan screamed out about rua's KICC. NOT machidas counter. EVERY SINGLE TIME. when machida caught rua with that flurry up against the cage, machida connected with at least 2 punches, 2 kiccs, and an uppercut, and rua only countered with ONE right hook. and joe rogan ONLY recognized ruas ONE punch! thats it! anyways, like ethereal, i'm not sayin machida WON. i'm jus sayin that it's ALOT, ALOT, ALOT, closer than folx are sayin. like they say, u cant let it go to the judges. and when ur fighting a champion, u gotta BEAT him. i cant say that rua BEAT him. again: 90% of every thing rua threw at machida, machida countered. watch the fight again, yall will see. fold.
"After being blistered on the internet for 36 hours, Cecil Peoples, one of the judges from the disputed Lyoto Machida-Mauricio Rua is firing back. Fans have been crushing him and the UFC over the Machida 48-47 decision. Many fighters outside the cage believed that Rua won the fight. One media member said the UFC [expletive] up and Dana White needs to stop blogging and fix the sport. Peoples told CageReport.net that there is a lack of understanding on how to score a fight:
"First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida."
I have zero issue with that explanation. Judges in boxing differ on their philosophy as well. It's the old volume versus precision argument. That said, I disagree that Machida landed the cleaner strikes in the first round but Peoples is entitled to his own opinion.
"You have to keep in mind we always the favor the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."
See now there might be a problem with that statement. It sounds like Peoples believes that head strikes are the only to finish the fight. So does that means all leg and body strikes can't lead to a finish?
"When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control."
This could be another issue. Do counterstrikers generally get the nod in Peoples' opinion.
"I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favor, where as unsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I'm just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I'm sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too."
That's a nice shot at the end, "fans who UNDERSTAND the technicalities." He can take a shot at the fans but the media support for Rua was pretty overwhelming:
Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
Kevin Iole, Yahoo!: 48-47 Rua
Dave Doyle, Yahoo!: 48-47 Rua
Dave Meltzer, Yahoo!: 49-46 Rua
BloodyElbow: 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua
ESPN: 49-46 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Adam Hill, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 48-47 Machida"
"First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida."
I have zero issue with that explanation. Judges in boxing differ on their philosophy as well. It's the old volume versus precision argument. That said, I disagree that Machida landed the cleaner strikes in the first round but Peoples is entitled to his own opinion.
"You have to keep in mind we always the favor the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."
See now there might be a problem with that statement. It sounds like Peoples believes that head strikes are the only to finish the fight. So does that means all leg and body strikes can't lead to a finish?
"When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control."
This could be another issue. Do counterstrikers generally get the nod in Peoples' opinion.
"I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favor, where as unsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I'm just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I'm sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too."
That's a nice shot at the end, "fans who UNDERSTAND the technicalities." He can take a shot at the fans but the media support for Rua was pretty overwhelming:
Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
Kevin Iole, Yahoo!: 48-47 Rua
Dave Doyle, Yahoo!: 48-47 Rua
Dave Meltzer, Yahoo!: 49-46 Rua
BloodyElbow: 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua
ESPN: 49-46 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Adam Hill, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 48-47 Machida"
Cecil peoples is a fucking RETARD. He said Rua's body and leg kicks do not get scored that highly because they don't end fights. Yeah, let Shogun kick you then Cecil. We'll see how long you stay standing. Anyways, I gave almost all the rounds to Shogun. He was the aggressor, he landed all the damaging shots. Machida is going to go back to the drawing board and work on defending thai kicks. That karate stance is only going to get more and more exposed by fighters like Shogun, Vera, Cane, etc.
btw that "you have to beat the champion" stuff is only in boxing. Forrest did not "beat" Rampage and they still gave him the belt.
btw that "you have to beat the champion" stuff is only in boxing. Forrest did not "beat" Rampage and they still gave him the belt.
@ T-Spoon
Fuck what Rogan was talkin about, Machida's shots in those exchanges weren't as effective as Shoguns. People who saw it for Machida just have a bias to strikes aimed at the head.
Shogun landed the cleaner harder shots. A lot of Machida's counter straight lefts were blocked and that exchange at the end of the 3rd wasn't really that significant because most of those shots were glancing or just missed. But Machida was coming forward so that's probably why people think he won that exchange. As soon as Shogun caught him with that right, Lyoto didn't want to play anymore, lol
Shogun exposed Machida. Machida has ZERO head movement because he thinks he's going to land first all the time. Shogun was like, "I don't want to hit your face, gimmie them ribs!"
Fuck what Rogan was talkin about, Machida's shots in those exchanges weren't as effective as Shoguns. People who saw it for Machida just have a bias to strikes aimed at the head.
Shogun landed the cleaner harder shots. A lot of Machida's counter straight lefts were blocked and that exchange at the end of the 3rd wasn't really that significant because most of those shots were glancing or just missed. But Machida was coming forward so that's probably why people think he won that exchange. As soon as Shogun caught him with that right, Lyoto didn't want to play anymore, lol
Shogun exposed Machida. Machida has ZERO head movement because he thinks he's going to land first all the time. Shogun was like, "I don't want to hit your face, gimmie them ribs!"
i agree 150%. and upon watching it AGAIN, i REALLY don't think the welts on machidas thighs came from the kiccs. i think mostly from the knees when clenched up against the cage. rua actually MISSED alot of leg kiccs attempted. he caught machida with a couple, but connecting with damn near the tip of his toes, not his shin. fold.
yea, i def agree with you. it all boils down to, who does the decision go to if fighter 1, throws 100 strikes, lands 70%, but doesnt land "hard" shots, or fighter 2 throws 70 strikes, lands 40% but lands "hard" shots? thats y i say, its NOT a clear cut "win" in machidas favor (in my eyes), but it's jus ALOT closer than ppl putting out there. fold.
Machida has the belt meaning he's gonna get a little more benefit of a doubt when it comes to shit like this. It's Rua's fault for letting up at the end. He put his destiny in another man's hand (judges) when he knew that he had enough momentum to finish the fight. Crappy call, but you have to take more responsibility than that.
Happened to score some better seats around 15 rows back from the cage! LOL
The card overall was kind of lackluster IMO, but still fun nonetheless.
As for the Machida-Shogun fight, I had Shogun winning 48-47. I scored the 1st, 4th, and 5th rounds for Shogun. I thought that he landed cleaner, and harder shots, and had better cage generalship. He kept perfect distance and never really allowed Machida to find his range and land anything significant.
I wouldn't say it was a robbery, because it was a close fight, but IMO Shogun clearly won. He landed more significant blows and it showed.
The card overall was kind of lackluster IMO, but still fun nonetheless.
As for the Machida-Shogun fight, I had Shogun winning 48-47. I scored the 1st, 4th, and 5th rounds for Shogun. I thought that he landed cleaner, and harder shots, and had better cage generalship. He kept perfect distance and never really allowed Machida to find his range and land anything significant.
I wouldn't say it was a robbery, because it was a close fight, but IMO Shogun clearly won. He landed more significant blows and it showed.
rua did more damage look at machidas face
Some people bruise/bleed easier than other and it's in no way an indication of how a fight went.
got this from sherdog
Who Do You Think Won?
Fanhouse scored the fight 48-47 Shogun (twice)
Cagewriter score the fight 48-47 Shogun
Bloody Elbow scored it 50-46 Shogun
USA Today scored the fight 48-47 Shogun
Sports Illustrated scored the fight 48-47 Shogun
Fightmetric scored the fight 49-47 Shogun
The Actual Judges Scorecards
Nelson Hamilton
Round 1 - Shogun
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Machida
Round 5 - Shogun
Cecil Peoples
Round 1 - Machida
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Shogun
Round 5 - Shogun
Marcos Rosales
Round 1 - Machida
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Shogun
Round 5 - Shogun
ESPN.com Rushes the Decision
Fighter Twitter Reactions from CageWriter
Fanhouse scored the fight 48-47 Shogun (twice)
Cagewriter score the fight 48-47 Shogun
Bloody Elbow scored it 50-46 Shogun
USA Today scored the fight 48-47 Shogun
Sports Illustrated scored the fight 48-47 Shogun
Fightmetric scored the fight 49-47 Shogun
The Actual Judges Scorecards
Nelson Hamilton
Round 1 - Shogun
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Machida
Round 5 - Shogun
Cecil Peoples
Round 1 - Machida
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Shogun
Round 5 - Shogun
Marcos Rosales
Round 1 - Machida
Round 2 - Machida
Round 3 - Machida
Round 4 - Shogun
Round 5 - Shogun
ESPN.com Rushes the Decision
Fighter Twitter Reactions from CageWriter
This is way worse than Bisping vs. Hammil because it was a title fight.
and bisping vs. hamill. At least it was a split decision, and i thought Bisping won a round in that fight, which means only two judges scored one round wrong.. In this fight, it was really 4-1.. Which means each of the judges scored 2 rounds wrong. And it was unanimous.
and bisping vs. hamill. At least it was a split decision, and i thought Bisping won a round in that fight, which means only two judges scored one round wrong.. In this fight, it was really 4-1.. Which means each of the judges scored 2 rounds wrong. And it was unanimous.