The Proof I Promised
- Thread starter Rectal Prolapse
- Start date
god's a tool. just like tarot. just like magick. just like meditation. just like the quran. just like all that junk. there can only be one right? and everyone's feeling SOMETHING from what they do. that tells me that everyone's actually praying, or whatever the hell they're doing, to ultimately the same thing.
THAT MEANS EVERYTHING THEY'RE USING ARE FUCKING TOOLS.
including your god. unless you want to admit there's more than one, or just be completely ignorant and say nobody else feels anything and they're just trippin. if you do that, i'll just turn right around and say it to you and we can bicker like little kids.
THAT MEANS EVERYTHING THEY'RE USING ARE FUCKING TOOLS.
including your god. unless you want to admit there's more than one, or just be completely ignorant and say nobody else feels anything and they're just trippin. if you do that, i'll just turn right around and say it to you and we can bicker like little kids.this argument was won PAAAAAGES ago. i think i'm done. at least i hope i am. i really don't know how to put it any clearer. we've showed you PLENTY of ways your religion is faulty. something i figured out after 12 years raised catholic, 7 years in a catholic school with 3 days a week at church and an hour of bible class every day + sunday school, a mormon priest for a step dad, my biological even has a fucking "Jesus" licence plate. i've earned my christian study stripes. after all that influence, the conclusion i still came to is that it's all a bunch of bullshit. it doesn't feel right. it's like someone trying to convince me that the world is flat and everything revolves around it. it's just silly.
you know what my dad argues about when he sits down for a "religious debate"? he argues about shit like "what was the last name of the family that got married when jesus turned the wine into water?" WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF DEBATE IS THAT? it's just hours of stupid irrelevant bullshit like that. that's not a spiritual discussion, that's fucking retarded. that's all christians have to philosophise about is fucking stories from the bible. they get a big fucking kick out of belonging to something and never stop to really think about how superficial it really is.
you know what my dad argues about when he sits down for a "religious debate"? he argues about shit like "what was the last name of the family that got married when jesus turned the wine into water?" WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF DEBATE IS THAT? it's just hours of stupid irrelevant bullshit like that. that's not a spiritual discussion, that's fucking retarded. that's all christians have to philosophise about is fucking stories from the bible. they get a big fucking kick out of belonging to something and never stop to really think about how superficial it really is.
Hank,
I was raised as a Catholic too, I went (was forced) to go to church every Sunday and even went to Sunday/Saturday school.
And what did that do for me? Not a damn thing just like it's done nothing for you....
These fucking churches are as blind as the non-believers.
How can they preach something that they themselves do not know?
There is no middle man, you must establish a relationship with God on the personal level.
If you cannot do that, then you're lost....
I was raised as a Catholic too, I went (was forced) to go to church every Sunday and even went to Sunday/Saturday school.
And what did that do for me? Not a damn thing just like it's done nothing for you....
These fucking churches are as blind as the non-believers.
How can they preach something that they themselves do not know?
There is no middle man, you must establish a relationship with God on the personal level.
If you cannot do that, then you're lost....
You are assuming this.
You always have the Devil to pray to. Not that I recommend it but he has power.
haNk1 said:
THAT MEANS EVERYTHING THEY'RE USING ARE FUCKING TOOLS. including your god. unless you want to admit there's more than one, or just be completely ignorant and say nobody else feels anything and they're just trippin. if you do that, i'll just turn right around and say it to you and we can bicker like little kids.
including your god. unless you want to admit there's more than one, or just be completely ignorant and say nobody else feels anything and they're just trippin. if you do that, i'll just turn right around and say it to you and we can bicker like little kids.
THE PROOF YOU PROMISED WAS BULL SHIT!
Wow! Now I know why not one theist posted these prophecies. Complete freakin jokes.
For the record I'm going through the list you showed and disprove these so called prophecies.
It’s pretty simple to follow. I quote Rectal, then I quote the “prophecies” and then comments.
Already we have problems. Let's look at Micah.
Bethlahem Ephrathah was actually a person not a city. So this ruler to come is to be one of his descendants. So even if Jesus was born in Bethlehem it means nothing as this verse is talking about geneology not location.
Now let's see if we do better with Genesis.
Can someone kindly point the part where it says Jesus is born in Bethlehem? The verse seems to talk about Judah remaining leader of the tribes until someone comes who deserves the leadership. It says nothing about Bethlehem. So this prophecy can't refer to Jesus either.
Isaiah 40:3
This can mean different things. We have voice calling to prepare the way for the Lord. Whose voice? Isaiah himself could fit the description. Also the reference to "the Lord" need not necessarily mean Jesus. So this is sufficiently vague that it can be dismissed.
Zechariah 9:9
Ok, reading this in context it appears to refer to the messiah. However we have problem with it's supposed fulfillment. In Matthew we read:
Matthew 20:1-6
It is clear that this verse suggests Jesus rode 2 donkeys into Jerusalem! Why would Jesus perform such a circus act? The best explanation is that author misread Zechariah and thought he meant 2 donkeys. So he made up a story of Jesus riding on 2 donkeys so that he would fulfill the prophecy! Christian apologists claim the final them in Matthew refers to the cloaks and that Jesus rode on only one donkey. However the sentence is clearly about the donkeys and it is a strain to suddenly make it refer to the cloaks. Although this prophecy could refer to Jesus, assuming the gospels happened, the prophecy is ambiguous and so we cannot accept it.
Psalm 41:4-9
The person saying this is king David. The verses refer to him not a messiah. So another so called prophecy bites the dust for Jesus.
Again David is saying this about himself. From my understanding, the Psalms are songs by David to God. There is no evidence that these were to be considered prophecies but rather laments to God by David to save him from wicked people. Although the above supposedly happened to Jesus there is nothing to show it was supposed to be a prophecy.
Isaiah 53:5
In context these verses talk about a suffering servant whom God would raise up. This may or may not refer to Jesus. Since the description matches Jesus it could refer to him. But other people were crucified as well. So what makes Jesus crucifixion different? Well, he supposedly claimed he was the messiah. But other rebels claiming to be the savior had also been executed as well. So again this prophecy is ambiguous.
Zechariah 11:10-12
Everything hinges around wether or not the verses in the last part are a prophecy or are actions Zechariah did. It seems to be that Zechariah was given the money and he threw it to the potter's field. So this cannot be prophecy either.
Isaiah 50:4-6
The above verses clearly refer to Isaiah himself. So again no prophecy for Jesus.
See number 7.
Isaiah 53:7
This can be the only prophecy Jesus might have fulfilled. Though he talked to the chief priest and Pilate. The problem though is that it is vague.
The words "and was numbered by the transgressors" is rather vague and says nothing about thieves. So it could refer to anyone.
Wow! Now I know why not one theist posted these prophecies. Complete freakin jokes.
For the record I'm going through the list you showed and disprove these so called prophecies.
It’s pretty simple to follow. I quote Rectal, then I quote the “prophecies” and then comments.
Already we have problems. Let's look at Micah.
Bethlahem Ephrathah was actually a person not a city. So this ruler to come is to be one of his descendants. So even if Jesus was born in Bethlehem it means nothing as this verse is talking about geneology not location.
Now let's see if we do better with Genesis.
Can someone kindly point the part where it says Jesus is born in Bethlehem? The verse seems to talk about Judah remaining leader of the tribes until someone comes who deserves the leadership. It says nothing about Bethlehem. So this prophecy can't refer to Jesus either.
Isaiah 40:3
This can mean different things. We have voice calling to prepare the way for the Lord. Whose voice? Isaiah himself could fit the description. Also the reference to "the Lord" need not necessarily mean Jesus. So this is sufficiently vague that it can be dismissed.
Zechariah 9:9
Ok, reading this in context it appears to refer to the messiah. However we have problem with it's supposed fulfillment. In Matthew we read:
Matthew 20:1-6
It is clear that this verse suggests Jesus rode 2 donkeys into Jerusalem! Why would Jesus perform such a circus act? The best explanation is that author misread Zechariah and thought he meant 2 donkeys. So he made up a story of Jesus riding on 2 donkeys so that he would fulfill the prophecy! Christian apologists claim the final them in Matthew refers to the cloaks and that Jesus rode on only one donkey. However the sentence is clearly about the donkeys and it is a strain to suddenly make it refer to the cloaks. Although this prophecy could refer to Jesus, assuming the gospels happened, the prophecy is ambiguous and so we cannot accept it.
Psalm 41:4-9
The person saying this is king David. The verses refer to him not a messiah. So another so called prophecy bites the dust for Jesus.
Again David is saying this about himself. From my understanding, the Psalms are songs by David to God. There is no evidence that these were to be considered prophecies but rather laments to God by David to save him from wicked people. Although the above supposedly happened to Jesus there is nothing to show it was supposed to be a prophecy.
Isaiah 53:5
In context these verses talk about a suffering servant whom God would raise up. This may or may not refer to Jesus. Since the description matches Jesus it could refer to him. But other people were crucified as well. So what makes Jesus crucifixion different? Well, he supposedly claimed he was the messiah. But other rebels claiming to be the savior had also been executed as well. So again this prophecy is ambiguous.
Zechariah 11:10-12
Everything hinges around wether or not the verses in the last part are a prophecy or are actions Zechariah did. It seems to be that Zechariah was given the money and he threw it to the potter's field. So this cannot be prophecy either.
Isaiah 50:4-6
The above verses clearly refer to Isaiah himself. So again no prophecy for Jesus.
See number 7.
Isaiah 53:7
This can be the only prophecy Jesus might have fulfilled. Though he talked to the chief priest and Pilate. The problem though is that it is vague.
The words "and was numbered by the transgressors" is rather vague and says nothing about thieves. So it could refer to anyone.
Again quoting from Psalms doesen't work as there is nothing to show it was meant to be prophecy.
Zechariah 12:1-9
Who they are mourning for is not clear but the prophecy says that on that day the Lord would destroy all of Israel's enemies. That didn't happen when Jesus died so it can't have meant him.
See 12.
See 12.
Isaiah 53:9
Again we have talk about a suffering servant from the Lord. Here we are told is grave is with the rich and the wicked. It says he would be buried with rich men and wicked and men. Not put in a rich man's tomb. So again Jesus did not fulfill the prophecy.
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The above verses talk about a punishment on Israel but say nothing about a messiah.
So now let's do an overview.
Proofs 1, 2, 3, 6, 10, and 11 are vague and ambiguous.
Proofs 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, and 15 are non prophecies.
Proofs 13 and 16 never happened.
Proof 17 says nothing about Jesus. So in conclusion the proof for divine inspiration is lacking. None of the above proofs do anything to support the claim Jesus was the messiah. Thank you for wasting my time.
I got to give it up to 2-0 he actually did some hmwk. Hopefully rectal or migg come to refute your anti-prophecy claims. But the first one I'll adress the one about Bethlehem Ephrathah. Now let me ask a question. Do you know what Bethlehems name was prior to Bethlehem? It was Ephrathah taken from a clan that settled in what is not Bethlehem. There were two bethlehems one in Judah the other in Zebulun. Bethlehem Ephrathah simply was meant to distinguish Bethlehem's.
Why do you have to rely on mig/rectal? Can't do your own homework? Can't exept what I have to say?
See that's what we have all been talking about. No matter what logic tells us, no matter what science and reasoning tells us, the theist just can't let ago. It's ok man. I remember when I found out santa was fake. I went through the same shit. I kept telling myself, "no 'lil 2-0, he is real! He is, he is, he is" but no matter how many times I said that to myself, I knew deep down inside it was one big lie my parents told me.
See that's what we have all been talking about. No matter what logic tells us, no matter what science and reasoning tells us, the theist just can't let ago. It's ok man. I remember when I found out santa was fake. I went through the same shit. I kept telling myself, "no 'lil 2-0, he is real! He is, he is, he is" but no matter how many times I said that to myself, I knew deep down inside it was one big lie my parents told me.
I dont rely on them. They were the protagonists of this topic so im going to let them handle it. If there is something they say, or if they dont answer then I will say something. And No I can't exept what you say.
Jesus is born in bethelem and I provided my reasoning to why the prophecy is correct. You havent proven anything.
Jesus is born in bethelem and I provided my reasoning to why the prophecy is correct. You havent proven anything.