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B-San

Sicc OG
Apr 7, 2006
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#41
Did you even read the first post in this thread? :confused:




Or this one?




Look at all 4 of those people up and try and tell me his foreign policy is going to be different that what we've already seen.



Daalder was a signatory to the Project for a New American Century ("PNAC"), a neoconservative "think tank" which strongly influenced the George W. Bush administration's foreign and military policy in the Middle East.

Talk about change!

Dr. Susan Rice was a foreign policy aide in the Michael Dukakis campaign. During the 2004 presidential campaign, served as a foreign policy adviser to John Kerry.

Whoa he's gotta be doing something different!


Korb served an advisor to the Reagan-Bush election committee in 1980 and was then appointed Assistant Secretary of Defense (Manpower, Reserve Affairs, Installations and Logistics) from 1981 to 1985. In that position, he administered about seventy percent of the Defense budget.

This guy is sure to be full of progressive ideas!
From the looks of it, it seems that Obama plans on tayloring his administration after that of Lincoln, compiling a collage individuals that when put in a room, will present many points a view and conflicting ideologies... It's a concept that I understand will be almost impossible for many to fathom, due the way the current administration has operated....
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#43
From the looks of it, it seems that Obama plans on tayloring his administration after that of Lincoln, compiling a collage individuals that when put in a room, will present many points a view and conflicting ideologies... It's a concept that I understand will be almost impossible for many to fathom, due the way the current administration has operated....

I'm just wondering . . . are you mentally disabled?
 
Dec 8, 2005
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#44
My vote'll do more than only sitting at home... plus I've been getting others to register as well as lacing those who are undecided... and I'm just getting started...

Trip on this... if a few thousand of the folks who sat out the 2000 elections had actually voted, Bush would've never been president....
you live in california? bush lost the golden state by over a million votes in 2000 and over a million again in 2004. Clinton won by well over a million in '96, the only place where your vote could be worth any less than it already is would be new york. but this election could be different.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#47
Good one... Your willful ignorance of basic political history is amusing!

You trying to be the Bill-O of the siccness or something?

*waits to get called 'pin head'*


Considering I gave you the names of the people and some of their "accomplishments" and you are the one who thinks there will be change with them behind the wheel, my question is pretty valid. And you comparing Obama to Lincoln at any time, let alone before the guy has even become president, pretty much solidifies it.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#50
Considering I gave you the names of the people and some of their "accomplishments" and you are the one who thinks there will be change with them behind the wheel, my question is pretty valid. And you comparing Obama to Lincoln at any time, let alone before the guy has even become president, pretty much solidifies it.
They will not be 'behind the wheel' as you say... but part of an advisory team that is sure to consist of many 'bleeding heart liberals' as well...

By compiling representatives from many sides of the political and ideological spectrum; listening as they debate their varying points of view, Obama will be following the habits of Lincoln in respect to how a sizable fraction of his administration's agenda was formed...

As I remain skeptical of your ability to grasp this concept, I may return next week and try to break it down in a fashion requiring the least amount of multi-syllabic words possible....

Cheers!
 
Feb 8, 2006
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#51
They will not be 'behind the wheel' as you say... but part of an advisory team that is sure to consist of many 'bleeding heart liberals' as well...

By compiling representatives from many sides of the political and ideological spectrum; listening as they debate their varying points of view, Obama will be following the habits of Lincoln in respect to how a sizable fraction of his administration's agenda was formed...

As I remain skeptical of your ability to grasp this concept, I may return next week and try to break it down in a fashion requiring the least amount of multi-syllabic words possible....

Cheers!
you believe empty words for what reason? What leads you to think the powers that be will let some Obama character even get to the White House if he was gonna fuck up their plans?
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#52
They will not be 'behind the wheel' as you say... but part of an advisory team that is sure to consist of many 'bleeding heart liberals' as well...
They are already the leading force that is determining his foreign policy stance. This ain't some down the road shit where they might have something to say about an issue later, they are the ones formulating the plans NOW. At this same point in Bush's campaign for the presidency in '00 who was formulating his foreign policy? Condoleezza Rice, Joel Shin, Josh Bolton . . . those names sound failure at all? Maybe they are just part of an advisory team - certainly not behind the wheel, right?

Additionally, I highly doubt you have anywhere near the kind of political science or foreign policy background that I do so unless you got some stones to back up that highfalutin shit don't stink attitude of yours now would be a good time to check yourself and shirk back to your community college intro classes.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#53
you believe empty words for what reason? What leads you to think the powers that be will let some Obama character even get to the White House if he was gonna fuck up their plans?
My post that you quoted made no reference to any words that Obama has uttered... which leads me to wonder... why do you so strongly believe his words to be empty?

If you don't believe that Obama wants to improve our country, then why do you think he is running?

Why would he jepordize his family as well as risk assassination for anything otherwise?

Just to be somebody's puppet?

While you comptemplate those questions, please keep in mind that if Obama wasn't his own man, and instead completely bowing to the political will of others... Hillary would've been on the ticket since last week!
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#54
They are already the leading force that is determining his foreign policy stance. This ain't some down the road shit where they might have something to say about an issue later, they are the ones formulating the plans NOW. At this same point in Bush's campaign for the presidency in '00 who was formulating his foreign policy? Condoleezza Rice, Joel Shin, Josh Bolton . . . those names sound failure at all? Maybe they are just part of an advisory team - certainly not behind the wheel, right?
LOL at comparing Obama to Bush!

Obama has said that he's willing to listen to reason (unlike Bush), and as a result reserves the right to modify his administration's agenda in kind... Our future is not set in stone, a fact that those who push the arrogant policies of the status quo would not want us to believe...

Additionally, I highly doubt you have anywhere near the kind of political science or foreign policy background that I do so unless you got some stones to back up that highfalutin shit don't stink attitude of yours now would be a good time to check yourself and shirk back to your community college intro classes.
Good to know that your academic achievements have resulted in making the world a better place... oh wait, that would depend on which administration you served in...

*crickets*

Well at least you can use your omnipotent knowledge to better mankind by continuing to paste wikipedia links on a gangsta rap message board!

Such behavior makes me glad that I didn't earn my lowly bachelor's from whatever school you claim to have attended... cuz by the looks of it, all it has churned out is intense bitterness and apathy...

Maybe I could convince my brother, an Obama supporter who is in the process of obtaining his Master's in political science from a UC school while studying overseas in China - to register on this board so that he could enlighten you... but unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that his time is better served elsewhere than in a Chinese prison for, ''sputtering politcal beliefs that are not in step with the people's republic''...

....but if you still feel the undying need to show the rest of the sicc as to how your vast investments in education have paid off, then why not speak on which of the 2 candidates you feel is the better choice for president and why?

Otherwise I will dismiss all of your rhetoric as being nothing more than that of.... Anti-Obama-Extremism! :cool:

Before suffering from hypertension (a side effect of A.O.E.), please try to relax and have a great weekend!
 
May 9, 2002
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#55
If you don't believe that Obama wants to improve our country, then why do you think he is running?
Uhhh...dont ALL presidents have there own agenda and idea to "improve the country?" Last I checked, Bush wanted to "change the country"...he succeeded...but was ti GOOD change or BAD change? Unfortunetly, presidents, like EVERYONE ELSE< looks at things SUBJECTIVELY.

Why would he jepordize his family as well as risk assassination for anything otherwise?
If you ask a child what they want to be when they grow up, i bet you could find at least one out of 50 that would say "i want to be presdient one day". Who DOESNT like power? Isnt the human mind conditioned to WANT power?

Just to be somebody's puppet?
Its better to be a face and have someone make your decisions for you.

While you comptemplate those questions, please keep in mind that if Obama wasn't his own man, and instead completely bowing to the political will of others... Hillary would've been on the ticket since last week!
And Bush would have never been president...and Clinton...and Bush Sr....and Regean...do you see where im goin with this?

LOL at comparing Obama to Bush!

Obama has said that he's willing to listen to reason (unlike Bush), and as a result reserves the right to modify his administration's agenda in kind... Our future is not set in stone, a fact that those who push the arrogant policies of the status quo would not want us to believe...
Last time i checked, Obama was trying to get elected to become president. Are you trying to tell me that every candidate ever to run for president has SAID they want to do this and that...and actually did everything they were supposed to? Remember "no new taxes"? Yeah, that lasted all of 8 months.

Good to know that your academic achievements have resulted in making the world a better place... oh wait, that would depend on which administration you served in...
He was simply stating that he has studied political science...why does he have to be IN politics to KNOW politics? John Clyaton probably has NEVER played a game of football in his LIFE, yet he is revered as one of the most liable football insiders in the GAME.


Well at least you can use your omnipotent knowledge to better mankind by continuing to paste wikipedia links on a gangsta rap message board!
CB is the last person on here to cut and paste Wiki shit...trust me.

Such behavior makes me glad that I didn't earn my lowly bachelor's from whatever school you claim to have attended... cuz by the looks of it, all it has churned out is intense bitterness and apathy...
LOL...this is one of the worst arguments ever. "My school is better than yours!" Unless you attende a specialty school that is known specifically for a certain subject, this is a ridiculous debate. MIT is an example. I would hope that someone studying to be a research scientist would be from MIT, as opposed to Mizzou.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#56
LOL at comparing Obama to Bush!
My comparison of the Bush and potential Obama administrations and their political campaign machines is far more valid than a comparison of Obama and Lincoln in every possible aspect. For me to even have to point this out shows your lack of knowledge in the areas of modern American politics, American political history, and American foreign policy (both modern and historical).


Well at least you can use your omnipotent knowledge to better mankind by continuing to paste wikipedia links on a gangsta rap message board!

My links to Wikipedia were for your benefit (and others reading this as well). Since you have proven to have no knowledge of who any of these people are I provided you with quick and easy access to their information. That you continually ignore it is to your detriment.

Such behavior makes me glad that I didn't earn my lowly bachelor's from whatever school you claim to have attended...
I&#8217;m not one to overly glorify or in the same vein speak down on anyone&#8217;s post secondary education, let alone my own experiences, but since you brought it up I&#8217;m happy to lay it down for you.

Me &#8211; BA in both Political Science and International Relations &#8211; Global Security with a focus on Latin America from a public university that consistently ranks among the top 10 if not top 5 in the nation in those departments.

You &#8211; an incomplete


cuz by the looks of it, all it has churned out is intense bitterness and apathy...
I am neither bitter nor apathetic. My lack of support for either major party in the U.S. makes me neither, as well. My knowledge and depth of interest in the area just forces me, on a personal level, to focus my activities on meaningful endeavors that have promise for helping my community, state, and country, rather than hinging hopes on the fallacy of voting.


Maybe I could convince my brother, an Obama supporter who is in the process of obtaining his Master's in political science from a UC school while studying overseas in China - to register on this board so that he could enlighten you...
Unfortunately for him and the majority of Americans many people can&#8217;t seem to come to grips with reality while in pursuit of a piece of paper.



his time is better served elsewhere than in a Chinese prison for, ''sputtering politcal beliefs that are not in step with the people's republic''...
Too bad they&#8217;re too busy betraying Mao&#8217;s legacy to treat him to a disserving end. *shrug*


...then why not speak on which of the 2 candidates you feel is the better choice for president and why?
Neither, which if your simpleton mind were able to grasp such a simple topic you would have been able to understand by this point in the thread. Neither offers any significant change, especially change that will benefit the majority of people in this country (knowing or not). My examples from Obama&#8217;s staff illustrate this point quite well.


Otherwise I will dismiss all of your rhetoric as being nothing more than that of.... Anti-Obama-Extremism! :cool:

Before suffering from hypertension (a side effect of A.O.E.), please try to relax and have a great weekend!
Anyone else notice this guy is like the result of some kind of evil genetic milkshake gone wrong trying to combine Tadou and MistahMurdah into a democrat?
 
May 13, 2002
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www.socialistworld.net
#57
At AIPAC, Obama outlines policy shift to defend US, Israeli interests

11 June 2008



In his June 4 speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the largest pro-Israeli lobby group in Washington, presumptive Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama made clear his commitment to the defense of US as well as Israeli imperialist interests, while proposing a more flexible mixture of diplomacy, threats and military force than that employed by the Bush administration.

After being denounced last month as an &#8220;appeaser&#8221; by Bush during the president&#8217;s tour of the Middle East, Obama was at pains to make clear that the tactical shift he advocates would benefit both US imperialism and Israeli state interests.

He began with a statement of support for Israel&#8217;s oppression of the Palestinians, saying: &#8220;We know the establishment of Israel was just and necessary, rooted in centuries of struggle and decades of patient work. But 60 years later, we know that we cannot relent, we cannot yield, and as president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel&#8217;s security.&#8221;

Opposing all Palestinian claims to Jerusalem, he said: &#8220;Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.&#8221; He supported the Bush administration&#8217;s policy of refusing to negotiate with the elected Hamas government in the Gaza Strip.

Obama pledged to maintain the massive level of US military assistance to Israel, saying he would continue &#8220;ensuring Israel&#8217;s qualitative military advantage&#8221; over other countries in the region, and adding that he would implement a memorandum of understanding guaranteeing $30 billion in assistance to Israel over the next decade.

He pointed out, however, that current US Middle East policy has led to significant setbacks for both US and Israeli interests&#8212;notably the failure of Israel&#8217;s US-backed invasion of Lebanon in the summer of 2006 and the election of a Hamas government in the Gaza Strip in February of that year.

He declared: &#8220;I don&#8217;t think any of us can be satisfied that America&#8217;s recent foreign policy has made Israel more secure. Hamas now controls Gaza. Hezbollah has tightened its grip on southern Lebanon and is flexing its muscles in Beirut. Because of the war in Iraq, Iran&#8212;which always posed a greater threat to Israel than Iraq&#8212;is emboldened and poses the greatest strategic challenge to the United States and Israel in the Middle East in a generation.&#8221;

He proposed an adjustment of US foreign policy, including direct negotiations with Iran, saying: &#8220;We will use all elements of American power to pressure Iran.... This starts with aggressive, principled, tough diplomacy without self-defeating preconditions, but with a clear-eyed understanding of our interests.&#8221;

Notwithstanding the opinions of Obama&#8217;s more self-deluded liberal supporters, such as the Nation&#8212;which wrote that that he exhibited a &#8220;more humane and wise approach to foreign policy&#8221;&#8212;the policy outlined by the Democratic candidate does not represent a real break from the Bush administration&#8217;s politics of war and provocation.

There is nothing either pacifist or anti-imperialist about it. It is, in fact, no less ruthless in its pursuit of US imperialist interests&#8212;and no less hostile to the aspirations of the Palestinian masses&#8212;than the policy of Bush and McCain. Rather, Obama argued before AIPAC, he proposes a more intelligent and competent execution of imperialist Realpolitik.

Obama promised he would &#8220;always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally Israel.&#8221; In other words, his proposed negotiations with Iran would take place with Iran under the constant threat of US attack.

Obama&#8217;s main innovation is the cynical calculation that the show of diplomacy he proposes will make it easier, should Washington decide to attack Iran, to corral US and world public opinion behind a wider Middle East war. He said: &#8220;Sometimes there are no alternatives to confrontation. But that only makes diplomacy more important. If we must use military force, we are more likely to succeed, and will have far greater support at home and abroad, if we have exhausted our diplomatic efforts. That is the change we need in our foreign policy.&#8221;

As an example of the sort of deal he might propose to Iran, Obama said: &#8220;We will present a clear choice. If you abandon your dangerous nuclear program, your support for terror, and your threats to Israel, there will be meaningful incentives&#8212;including the lifting of sanctions and political and economic integration with the international community. If you refuse, we will ratchet up the pressure.&#8221;

Obama&#8217;s call for a new tack in relations with Iran reflects not only concerns about Iran, but also deep dissatisfaction within the US ruling elite over the Bush administration&#8217;s conduct of the Iraq war. His call for talks with Iran is of a piece with his support for reducing the US military presence in Iraq and redeploying American forces to Afghanistan.

Having installed in Baghdad a Shiite fundamentalist regime with close historical relations to Iran, the US bourgeoisie finds itself on the horns of a dilemma. Iraq no longer plays its traditional role as a military counterweight to Iran in the region, and the US faces significant opposition within its own puppet regime in Iraq to an aggressive policy against Iran.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and other government officials have publicly criticized US Iran policy. Maliki welcomed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during a state visit to Baghdad in March. Last month, his government pulled out of a US-backed offensive against the Shiite Mahdi Army in the Sadr City neighborhood in Baghdad, requesting that Tehran broker a truce instead.

Obama noted: &#8220;Keeping all of our troops tied down indefinitely in Iraq is not the way to weaken Iran&#8212;it is precisely what has strengthened it. It is a policy for staying, not a policy for victory. I have proposed a responsible, phased redeployment of our troops from Iraq.&#8221;

Obama&#8217;s reasoning is in line with significant sections of the US foreign policy establishment, notably represented by the 2006 Iraq Study Group, who view Bush administration policy as a disaster and hope that a less overtly aggressive posture towards Iran will lessen Washington&#8217;s international isolation&#8212;both by reducing the hostility of the Middle Eastern masses towards the US and by pushing other governments to side with US policy.

Obama said: &#8220;If Iran fails to change course when presented with this choice by the US, it will be clear ... that the Iranian regime is the author of its own isolation. That will strengthen our hand with Russia and China as we insist on stronger sanctions in the Security Council. And we should work with Europe, Japan, and the Gulf states to find every avenue outside the UN to isolate the Iranian regime.&#8221;

Obama has long supported redeploying US troops from Iraq to Afghanistan and taking a harder line on neighboring Pakistan&#8212;both countries on Iran&#8217;s eastern border. Such moves would strengthen the US military encirclement of Iran and place US forces athwart the land routes connecting Iran to its main trading partners in Asia.
 
Apr 25, 2002
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#58
Let us not forget the additional non-change initiatives in foreign policy which include:

Continuation of the Cuban Blockade - has backtracked on his previous statments about a change of policy to currently no significant change, if any.

Continued agression towards Venezuela - Obama has refered to the Venezuelan president as an "oil tyrant".

Continued support for plan Colombia

Expansion of the war in Afghanistan

Continued status quo on Taiwan

Expansion of NATO

Expansion of Military Industrial Complex

And that is just from his website.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#59
He was simply stating that he has studied political science...why does he have to be IN politics to KNOW politics?
OK... let's refresh...

Additionally, I highly doubt you have anywhere near the kind of political science or foreign policy background that I do so unless you got some stones to back up that highfalutin shit don't stink attitude of yours now would be a good time to check yourself and shirk back to your community college intro classes.
Doesn't sound like he was "simply stating that he has studied political science", to me... y'feel? LOL!

...this is one of the worst arguments ever. "My school is better than yours!" Unless you attende a specialty school that is known specifically for a certain subject, this is a ridiculous debate. MIT is an example. I would hope that someone studying to be a research scientist would be from MIT, as opposed to Mizzou.
Once again

Additionally, I highly doubt you have anywhere near the kind of political science or foreign policy background that I do so unless you got some stones to back up that highfalutin shit don't stink attitude of yours now would be a good time to check yourself and shirk back to your community college intro classes.
LOL!!!

Please note that I merely responded with self-depreciating humor when referring to my education... I see none of that "my school is better than yours," talk that you speak of...
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#60
@ I Fucked Your Mom...

...judging from Rictus's latest responses, I'm not sure as to what his position is on secondary education either...

Additionally, I highly doubt you have anywhere near the kind of political science or foreign policy background that I do so unless you got some stones to back up that highfalutin shit don't stink attitude of yours now would be a good time to check yourself and shirk back to your community college intro classes.
FLIP....

I&#8217;m not one to overly glorify or in the same vein speak down on anyone&#8217;s post secondary education, let alone my own experiences....
FLOP....

...Unfortunately for him and the majority of Americans many people can&#8217;t seem to come to grips with reality while in pursuit of a piece of paper.
FLIP!

Neither, which if your simpleton mind were able to grasp such a simple topic you would have been able to understand by this point in the thread. Neither offers any significant change, especially change that will benefit the majority of people in this country (knowing or not). My examples from Obama&#8217;s staff illustrate this point quite well.
In other words, his cynicism won't allow him to make a choice between the two...

Anyone else notice this guy is like the result of some kind of evil genetic milkshake gone wrong trying to combine Tadou and MistahMurdah into a democrat?
LOL as he bites from the Bush playbook... labeling me as 'evil' when he said this!:

Too bad they&#8217;re too busy betraying Mao&#8217;s legacy to treat him to a disserving end. *shrug*
He wishes a 'disserving end' to those who have opposing views; sounds like Ritcus is probably all up on Hitler's jock as well!:cheeky:

Lastly, LOL at him being on the nuts of a man who said, "I only bathe myself in the bodies of my women"!