"Not In Our Name" statement signed by Mos Def, Boots of the Coup, others

[Roxy]

I agree w/ all most everything SaVelli said. I come from another country, and I know first hand about being treated like an animal by the people in power. I have had family members not only detained for no reason but also executed. So yeah we came to the US. And I appreciate EVERYTHING that I have and totaly understand that I would not have the the life I do if I had stayed in my country.

All that said and done the US government is fucked up!! It is a lesser (not really) of the evils. This country is a mecca to immigrants like myself not b/c of the government, but b/c of the opportunities. It is the richest countries in the world, and jobs are a lot more abundant than in other countries, which is not done by the government, but by the toil of its citizens. It is a place where if U work HARD and are DISCIPLINED, it will pay off (or at least more so than in other countries). That is why we come here, we could give a shit about the government policies, until they start to take away our rights (i.e. lots of immigrants became citizens during this last election b/c lots of their right as legal residents started to dwindle away).

Now U guys really need to be a little more educated before U start talking shit about love-it-or-leave. Realize that U are supporting exactly what U are condeming. If we give the government all these free flowing abilities then the US will be just like all the other oppresive governments. While U might not agree w/ the "hippies" and their statement, these people are still looking to preserve what this country was built upon, FREEDOM. Not just for the "Americans" but for everyone.

Take some fucken history classes and learn about the shit your government did to INNOCENT people all over the world. Even here, do the words Tuskegee Project mean anything to U guys? Or how about the systamatic sterilization of THOUSANDS of Puerto Rican women (against their knowledge and concent), and the hundreds of other things the US government has done to people around the world? Do these things not matter to U guys b/c they aren't AMERICANS?

As to profiling, fuck that!!!! Do U know what its like to be singled out b/c your skin is a little darker or maybe b/c U speak another language? It is RACISM!!!! Just b/c U are for it doesn't mean it isn't RACIST. If U are going to support profiling at least have the balls to admitt that it is RACIST!! I was pulled aside recently at SFO and checked, and I mean super checked. And while it was a major drag, so the fuck what? I don't care. So they pull aside your white haired old granny, fucken deal w/ it. And oh, in case U guys didn't hear the last guy the caught w/ the "dirty bomb" he wasn't an Arab, he was an American citizen of latin decent who converted to the Muslim religion and changed his name. Enemies of the state come in many forms, believe that.

 

[Mezzano]

my opinion is that the US is targeting Muslims and Arabs unfairly

but as for Islamist politics, like the kind advocated by Bin Laden and the Taliban, that shit has to GO

US imperialism and Islamist terrorism are 2 sides of the same coin, look how Reagan and Bin Laden were best buddies in the 80s--they represent the same kind of corruption and backwards bullshit

 

[The Duke of Earl]

Re: "Not In Our Name" statement signed by Mos Def, Boots of the Coup, others

A Statement of Conscience

Not In Our Name

Let it not be said that people in the United States did nothing when their government declared a war without limit and instituted stark new measures of repression.

The signers of this statement call on the people of the U.S. to resist the policies and overall political direction that have emerged since September 11, 2001, and which pose grave dangers to the people of the world.

We believe that peoples and nations have the right to determine their own destiny, free from military coercion by great powers. We believe that all persons detained or prosecuted by the United States government should have the same rights of due process. We believe that questioning, criticism, and dissent must be valued and protected. We understand that such rights and values are always contested and must be fought for.

We believe that people of conscience must take responsibility for what their own governments do -- we must first of all oppose the injustice that is done in our own name. Thus we call on all Americans to RESIST the war and repression that has been loosed on the world by the Bush administration. It is unjust, immoral, and illegitimate. We choose to make common cause with the people of the world.

We too watched with shock the horrific events of September 11, 2001. We too mourned the thousands of innocent dead and shook our heads at the terrible scenes of carnage -- even as we recalled similar scenes in Baghdad, Panama City, and, a generation ago, Vietnam. We too joined the anguished questioning of millions of Americans who asked why such a thing could happen.

But the mourning had barely begun, when the highest leaders of the land unleashed a spirit of revenge. They put out a simplistic script of "good vs. evil" that was taken up by a pliant and intimidated media. They told us that asking why these terrible events had happened verged on treason. There was to be no debate. There were by definition no valid political or moral questions. The only possible answer was to be war abroad and repression at home.

In our name, the Bush administration, with near unanimity from Congress, not only attacked Afghanistan but arrogated to itself and its allies the right to rain down military force anywhere and anytime. The brutal repercussions have been felt from the Philippines to Palestine, where Israeli tanks and bulldozers have left a terrible trail of death and destruction. The government now openly prepares to wage all-out war on Iraq - - a country which has no connection to the horror of September 11. What kind of world will this become if the U.S. government has a blank check to drop commandos, assassins, and bombs wherever it wants?

In our name, within the U.S., the government has created two classes of people: those to whom the basic rights of the U.S. legal system are at least promised, and those who now seem to have no rights at all. The government rounded up over 1,000 immigrants and detained them in secret and indefinitely. Hundreds have been deported and hundreds of others still languish today in prison. This smacks of the infamous concentration camps for Japanese-Americans in World War 2. For the first time in decades, immigration procedures single out certain nationalities for unequal treatment.

In our name, the government has brought down a pall of repression over society. The President's spokesperson warns people to "watch what they say." Dissident artists, intellectuals, and professors find their views distorted, attacked, and suppressed. The so-called Patriot Act -- along with a host of similar measures on the state level -- gives police sweeping new powers of search and seizure, supervised if at all by secret proceedings before secret courts.

In our name, the executive has steadily usurped the roles and functions of the other branches of government. Military tribunals with lax rules of evidence and no right to appeal to the regular courts are put in place by executive order. Groups are declared "terrorist" at the stroke of a presidential pen.

We must take the highest officers of the land seriously when they talk of a war that will last a generation and when they speak of a new domestic order. We are confronting a new openly imperial policy towards the world and a domestic policy that manufactures and manipulates fear to curtail rights.

There is a deadly trajectory to the events of the past months that must be seen for what it is and resisted. Too many times in history people have waited until it was too late to resist.

President Bush has declared: "you're either with us or against us." Here is our answer: We refuse to allow you to speak for all the American people. We will not give up our right to question. We will not hand over our consciences in return for a hollow promise of safety. We say NOT IN OUR NAME. We refuse to be party to these wars and we repudiate any inference that they are being waged in our name or for our welfare. We extend a hand to those around the world suffering from these policies; we will show our solidarity in word and deed.

We who sign this statement call on all Americans to join together to rise to this challenge. We applaud and support the questioning and protest now going on, even as we recognize the need for much, much more to actually stop this juggernaut. We draw inspiration from the Israeli reservists who, at great personal risk, declare "there IS a limit" and refuse to serve in the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

We also draw on the many examples of resistance and conscience from the past of the United States: from those who fought slavery with rebellions and the underground railroad, to those who defied the Vietnam war by refusing orders, resisting the draft, and standing in solidarity with resisters.

Let us not allow the watching world today to despair of our silence and our failure to act. Instead, let the world hear our pledge: we will resist the machinery of war and repression and rally others to do everything possible to stop it.

Michael Albert
Mike Alewitz, LaBOR aRT & MuRAL PRoJECT
Laurie Anderson
Edward Asner, actor
Russell Banks, writer
Rosalyn Baxandall, historian
Jessica Blank, actor/playwright
Medea Benjamin, Global Exchange
William Blum, author
Theresa Bonpane, executive director, Office of the Americas
Blase Bonpane, director, Office of the Americas
Fr. Bob Bossie, SCJ
Henry Chalfant, author/filmmaker
Bell Chevigny, writer
Paul Chevigny, professor of law, NYU
Noam Chomsky
Stephanie Coontz, historian, Evergreen State College
Kia Corthron, playwright
Kevin Danaher, Global Exchange
Ossie Davis
Mos Def
Carol Downer, board of directors, Chico (CA) Feminist Women's Health Center
Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, professor, California State University, Hayward
Eve Ensler
Leo Estrada, UCLA professor, Urban Planning
John Gillis, writer, professor of history, Rutgers
Jeremy Matthew Glick, editor of Another World Is Possible
Suheir Hammad, writer
David Harvey, distinguished professor of anthropology, CUNY Graduate Center
Rakaa Iriscience, hip hop artist
Erik Jensen, actor/playwright
Casey Kasem
Robin D.G. Kelly
Martin Luther King III, president, Southern Christian Leadership Conference
Barbara Kingsolver
C. Clark Kissinger, Refuse & Resist!
Jodie Kliman, psychologist
Yuri Kochiyama, activist
Annisette & Thomas Koppel, singers/composers
Tony Kushner
James Lafferty, executive director, National Lawyers Guild/L.A.
Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor, TIKKUN magazine
Barbara Lubin, Middle East Childrens Alliance
Staughton Lynd
Anuradha Mittal, co-director, Institute for Food and Development Policy/Food First
Malaquias Montoya, visual artist
Robert Nichols, writer
Rev. E. Randall Osburn, exec. v.p., Southern Christian Leadership Conference
Grace Paley
Jeremy Pikser, screenwriter
Jerry Quickley, poet
Juan Gómez Quiñones, historian, UCLA
Michael Ratner, president, Center for Constitutional Rights
David Riker, filmmaker
Boots Riley, hip hop artist, The Coup
Edward Said
John J. Simon, writer, editor
Starhawk
Michael Steven Smith, National Lawyers Guild/NY
Bob Stein, publisher
Gloria Steinem
Alice Walker
Naomi Wallace, playwright
Rev. George Webber, president emeritus, NY Theological Seminary
Leonard Weinglass, attorney
John Edgar Wideman
Saul Williams, spoken word artist
Howard Zinn, historian

Organizations for identification only (partial list of signers as of 6/5/02)

Contact the Not In Our Name statement at:[email protected]

CUZ ITS ABOUT TIME FOR THE NEW REVOULUTION-SIR DYNO

 

[UnLieutenant]

ASK SOME OF YOUR RAPPER-IDOLS in is GANGSTA-RAP GAME how they feel about this shit

i don't think many rappers have much of an educated opinion about this topic. or better yet, most would have the same opinion that's transported by the news everyday. and you can't argue about that. the news in the US are straight propaganda. i receive CNN and other news channels from around the world, and i never saw such blatant nationalism and war propaganda as the shit they show on CNN.
this is not a problem of white conservative "slavemasters" or anything like that. but it's organized bullshitting of a whole people.

what's so confusing about this shit, is that even the oppressed ones in the US put a flag in their yard... that's kinda ironic.

why can't you see that what peeps like Cold Blooded or mezzano or roxy say is true patriotism. the "like it or leave" argument is truly lame as someone stated already. even if you understand that the country you live in shows some fucked up behaviour you should stay and try to change something and not just leave. many of you seem to confuse america with its government. an american who is dissapointed with the government has no wish to leave his home country. all he wishes for is a better government and less injustice for his home country.

 

[Pimperoni]

i don't think many rappers have much of an educated opinion about this topic. or better yet, most would have the same opinion that's transported by the news everyday. and you can't argue about that. the news in the US are straight propaganda. i receive CNN and other news channels from around the world, and i never saw such blatant nationalism and war propaganda

I couldn't agree more and as far as national news, the only thing I watch is FOX, that O'REILEY FACTOR is on point about 70% of the time

many of you seem to confuse america with its government. an american who is dissapointed with the government has no wish to leave his home country. all he wishes for is a better government and less injustice for his home country.

I see it as pouting and crying due to mislead minds . . .
but If thats how they feel I owe them all an appology.

 

[BIGTOE]

Who is to say which news broadcast is telling it how it is. You can't say CNN is all propaganda just because it's different then what another program from somewhere else is saying. None of us and certaintly no one outside of this country really knows whats going down. We just have to put our faith in the government to do whats best for the country. Not saying that is easy but our country has changed alot since the 70's and 80's even. Alot of policies on foreign affairs have changed and also policies on inteligence and military.

Profiling is wrong no doubt but I tell you what. Shit starts going down like it does in Isreal and alot of mother fuckers are gonna take their shit in their own hands if the government doesn't do something about terrorism.

And Savelli, that last little rant you had just made you look like the ignorant one who just has some personal beef with the U.S.
Maybe you would be better off if you just kept our countries name out your mouth.

 

[coke on the das]

what an eloquent waste of intelligence & time. i wouldn't "piss on" this so-called statement of conscience, but it is such an empty, useless gesture that i had trouble reading the whole thing through.

how exactly are we supposed to "rise to this challenge"? and who sets the parameters of this "challenge"?

and is it not obvious that if all these supposed historians & professors & mos defs were the ones running the show, that there would be another group of people who would think that they knew what actions should be taken, & we would see a similar call of "rising to this challenge" ??

of course we would.. and we always will, as long as man holds on to the belief that "I am American" "I am Afghani" "I am Mexican".. these are all man made designations, and because of this type of thought man thinks that HE owns the land where he resides. the land was here before all of us, & it will be here after we are all gone. so NONE of us own it, God does.

in a Godless society, man makes his own rules & regulations, and by nature they are destined to create envy, hatred, greed & so on within the other men in that society. there will never be absolute peace in such a society.

so even though these people are coming from a perspective of goodness, there will be no peace gained from some mundane "statement of conscience" or by "rising to this challenge" or any other artificial means.

please believe it.

 

[Zeta]

....ALL THIS BITCHING GETS ANNOYING....& ALL OF YOU LITTLE WHINERS ABOUT THE WAY THIS COUNTRY WORKS ARE A BUNCH OF INGREATFUL -CHILDISH CRYBABIES. BY THE WAY....I AGREE 110% WITH PIMPERONI'S POST.

SHEA

Ever heard of freedom of speech and expression? Additionally, this country is supposed to be led by a government of the people, for the people, and by the people; so what is wrong with the people expressing their views about how this country is ran? You don't like that, then you get the hell out.

 

[Tenkamenin]

Ever heard of freedom of speech and expression? Additionally, this country is supposed to be led by a government of the people, for the people, and by the people; so what is wrong with the people expressing their views about how this country is ran? You don't like that, then you get the hell out.

I AGREE!!

 

[ColdBlooded]

I THINK THAT ALL THESE COMMENTS ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT BEING FUCKED IS TRUE...OUR GOVERNMENT AINT THE BEST IN THE WORLD......BUT WHY DONT YALL CHECK OUT CUBA FOR A FEW MONTHS

I have. It really makes you realize how shitty the U.S. government really is. Cuba is a fantastic country. You been there before?

 

[ColdBlooded]

why can't you see that what peeps like Cold Blooded or mezzano or roxy say is true patriotism. the "like it or leave" argument is truly lame as someone stated already. even if you understand that the country you live in shows some fucked up behaviour you should stay and try to change something and not just leave. many of you seem to confuse america with its government. an american who is dissapointed with the government has no wish to leave his home country. all he wishes for is a better government and less injustice for his home country.

That is so on fuckin point!

 

[DeviantJR]

I have. It really makes you realize how shitty the U.S. government really is. Cuba is a fantastic country. You been there before?

lol I was waiting for that one.

Originally posted by UnLieutenant


why can't you see that what peeps like Cold Blooded or mezzano or roxy say is true patriotism. the "like it or leave" argument is truly lame as someone stated already. even if you understand that the country you live in shows some fucked up behaviour you should stay and try to change something and not just leave. many of you seem to confuse america with its government. an american who is dissapointed with the government has no wish to leave his home country. all he wishes for is a better government and less injustice for his home country.

 

[PLOT]

it's damn good to see that there actually IS an opposition inside the US. to peeps like me from overseas the States always give the impression of an undivided imperialist power that no one can actually manage to stop. the europeans all jump and play ball when bush calls for support or anything.
the only people able to change that system of oppression and exploitation are the ones inside. that's why it's just so great to see people from america speak up on that topic. this gives me hope.

and i can concentrate on doing my share to change shit here cause it's true that all governments are more or less fucked and all share only one goal which is self-preservation.
just be informed that there is solidarity in other countries for the critics of bush's irresponsible policies.

@SaVelli: where do you live in europe homie?

The only oppostion you see is the liberals (ex-hippy's with ties) and kids who dont know better. The Europeans should jump and play ball because you are as much as a target as we are and your indebted to us from WW2, especially the Fruity French who give up without firing a single shot. We will soon be all unfied, all of Europe is already combined and about to convert to a single currency, Mexico, US and Canada will merge, Russia will shock and join the new alliance, and the Middle East and China will be handled in the worst way.
The point is, THEY FUCKED UP! They woke up a BEAST! You dont tell Mike Tyson to go fuck himself and not expect to get bombed on! ISLAM HAS DECLARED A WAR ON THE WORLD and has targeted us first because we are the symbol of the free world and everything they dispise! Its not about a foreign policy, which there is NOTHING wrong with, or what happens here, it's because we "cater" to Jews supposedly. Europe is going to be hit hard next, and I'll be sure to do a piece on why you somehow "deserve it" as well.............

 

[Tenkamenin]

The point is, THEY FUCKED UP! They woke up a BEAST! You dont tell Mike Tyson to go fuck himself and not expect to get bombed on! ISLAM HAS DECLARED A WAR ON THE WORLD and has targeted us first because we are the symbol of the free world and everything they dispise! Its not about a foreign policy, which there is NOTHING wrong with, or what happens here, it's because we "cater" to Jews supposedly. Europe is going to be hit hard next, and I'll be sure to do a piece on why you somehow "deserve it" as well.............

Islam has not declared a war on us. Who told you that? Osama Bin Laden and his extremist group does not represent Islam, they are muslim but they do not represent ISLAM.

 

[MaddDogg]

I think they got it half rght. The war on Terrorism has to go on, but Bush, his "Axis of Evil," his planned invasions and his new domestic policies are all way off. We need to keep an eye on Terrorism but giving law enforcement three folds the power it has to search people and pointing out immigrants is bullshit.

 

[jeff dogg u.s.a]

i agree

"Groups are declared "terrorist" at the stroke of a presidential pen. "

so once that happens you aint got no Declaration of Independence to protect yo ass.

 

[jeff dogg u.s.a]

and DAMN mr. freeze

to say that you wouldnt care if the whole middle eastern was bombed gone is pretty fuckin ignorant. you could be GEORGE BUSH'S BROTHER or something. Mr george freeze bush II

why ignorant: cause its like saying one american represents the whole damn U.S.A.

but shit after reading the article Mezzano put up you realize how corrupt the government can be.

"the "like it or leave" argument is truly lame as someone stated already. even if you understand that the country you live in shows some fucked up behaviour you should stay and try to change something and not just leave."

thats why folks is signing that shit.

what it will do who knows, but if nothing is done then the citizens of america would lose their rights slowly without yall ignorant folks realizing.

flower power forever,
jeff dogg u.s.a.

 

[UnLieutenant]

Its not about a foreign policy, which there is NOTHING wrong with, or what happens here, it's because we "cater" to Jews supposedly.

you are right that there is a lot of anti-jew agitation and feelings in many middle eastern countries which is certainly a bad thing.

but nevertheless there are many things about the US foreign policy that are more suited to create resentment than to increase peacefull cohabitation to put it mildly.
- take the fact that US intelligence trained and equipped the taliban, which has been posted already. this has been going on in a lot of countries (take nicaragua or even saddam hussein as examples). the US support oppressive governments all around the world as long as US business interests aren't threatened.
- moreover the US foreign policies are still locked in some kind of cold war state of mind. even though the perceived communist threat has crumbled there are still thousands of US soldiers stationed all over the world in order to secure hegemonial claims.
- the US dominate most international organizations like the UN, IMF, WTO etc. and use their influence to make sure that the global economic system is constructed in a way that suites the US and the other industrialized countries. liberalization of capital transcations or trade barriers for agricultural products from the poorer countries are just two examples.
- the US block almost every attempt of creating more multilateral global problem-solving mechanisms. be it the protocol of kyoto against global warming, be it the creation of an international court of law. that's double-standards for that ass. you can't proclaim yourself the saviour of freedom and human rights and at the same time not apply these standards to your own behaviour.

to sum it up, i believe that the US foreign policy is a major factor in increasing anti-western feelings in a lot of countries cause it worsens poverty on a global scale and is so obviously imperialistic.

and i'm not talking about america as a country but about the government you have right there.
by the way i'm not speaking from the arrogant position of a foreigner. many of the same things i just criticized about US policies are applicable to germany and other industrialized countries too. it's just that the US are the leader of this tendency just out of their economic and military strength.

Europe is going to be hit hard next, and I'll be sure to do a piece on why you somehow "deserve it" as well.............

you are definitely right and we might even deserve it as much as anyone cause the imperialist "movement" basically started in europe. but you say this as if you would feel some kind of malicious satisfaction if we really get hit.



don't get me wrong, i condemn violent acts like these terrorist attacks of course. too many people have lost their lives and retaliation will cause even more senseless deaths.
it's not about "either bin laden or bush". there's gotta be a peacefull alternative where hatemongers like these two have no room at all.
hell, i wouldn't wanna be a victim of any terrorist attacks so i'm glad there are certain agencies that protect us. but we have to be carefull not to give away too many rights in our search for security. plus we need to think about why people around the world perceive us as the big evil and maybe change our economic and foreign policies. this kinda prevention will root out the terrorist threat much more effectively in the long run.

 

[ColdBlooded]

lol I was waiting for that one.

:classic: Thats cuz you know i don't front. If someone is going to make a statment like that i'm sure as hell gunna ask for some evidence especially when it contradicts the statements of every person i've known to hava been there including myself.

 

[MrFreeze]

blah blah blah the us sucks and everywhere else is so much better. bullshit! im sick of this pointless debate. you can say love it or leave it is a lame argument but its better than putting our own country down and sayin were wrong even though they crashed planes full of innocent people into our buildings and killed 3000. seriously FUCK THIS THREAD!