No On 8 / No On Religion

[ThaG]

You just loudly proclaimed that we should not blame this one on religion because there were religions that support gay marriage. Then I told you that this does not matter because these religion are followed by a small number of people and it is the religions with most followers (the majority) that matters.

 

[HERESY]

You just loudly proclaimed that we should not blame this one on religion because there were religions that support gay marriage.

You don't get it. I'm saying to not blame it on "religion" because there are specific religious groups that are opposed to gay marriage and saying Yes on 8. I'm also saying to not BASH religion because not all religions are saying they oppose gay marriage. The OP said, "These church's "believe" that gay marriage is wrong," so I'm asking him to speak on BOTH--the church's that "believe" gay marriage is right and those who believe it's wrong. In addition, I'm also asking him to speak on non-religious groups that are pushing prop 8.

Then I told you that this does not matter because these religion are followed by a small number of people and it is the religions with most followers (the majority) that matters.

Heres where you COMPLETELY fail to grasp what I'm saying and why myself and others constantly ask you to stop jumping to conclusions. You said it was the religions with most followers that matters right? Now lets look at your nifty CIA chart you googled, cut and pasted, and attempted to use as evidence.

* Christian: (78.5&#37
o Protestant (51.3%)
o Roman Catholic (23.9%)
o Mormon (1.7%)
o other Christian (1.6%)
* unaffiliated (12.1%)
* none (4%)
* other or unspecified (2.5%)
* Jewish (1.7%)
* Buddhist (0.7%)
* Muslim (0.6%)

According to your chart, "Christians" are 78.5% so that makes them the majority, and according to you, we should be concerned with this majority. However, I want you to now turn your attention to the part in red. It seems that group is one of the smallest correct? Now read this.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/now-the-mormon.html

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-mormon-chur.html

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-mormon-fact.html

That MINORITY of 1.7% is funding 40-43% of the campaign. But still, according to your "logic" we should be concerned with the majority, so what does it matter?

The bottom line is don't attack religion specifically because you have religious people on both sides of the fence. If I were to follow the "logic" of some of you guys I would probably just start beatin the shit out of hella white people (some of you included) simply because Afrikans were slaves, and I would totally forget the fact that many whites lost their lives trying to end slavery. See how that works?

Go at specific groups not make broad sweeping generalizations.

 

[SeriouslyThug]

thaG is the type of man who doesnt care about those falsly accused of murder and murdered by the government as long as he believes the majority of those murdered by the government deserved to be.

 

[ThaG]

You don't get it. I'm saying to not blame it on "religion" because there are specific religious groups that are opposed to gay marriage and saying Yes on 8. I'm also saying to not BASH religion because not all religions are saying they oppose gay marriage. The OP said, "These church's "believe" that gay marriage is wrong," so I'm asking him to speak on BOTH--the church's that "believe" gay marriage is right and those who believe it's wrong. In addition, I'm also asking him to speak on non-religious groups that are pushing prop 8.



Heres where you COMPLETELY fail to grasp what I'm saying and why myself and others constantly ask you to stop jumping to conclusions. You said it was the religions with most followers that matters right? Now lets look at your nifty CIA chart you googled, cut and pasted, and attempted to use as evidence.



According to your chart, "Christians" are 78.5% so that makes them the majority, and according to you, we should be concerned with this majority. However, I want you to now turn your attention to the part in red. It seems that group is one of the smallest correct? Now read this.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/10/now-the-mormon.html

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-mormon-chur.html

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-mormon-fact.html

That MINORITY of 1.7% is funding 40-43% of the campaign. But still, according to your "logic" we should be concerned with the majority, so what does it matter?

The bottom line is don't attack religion specifically because you have religious people on both sides of the fence. If I were to follow the "logic" of some of you guys I would probably just start beatin the shit out of hella white people (some of you included) simply because Afrikans were slaves, and I would totally forget the fact that many whites lost their lives trying to end slavery. See how that works?

Go at specific groups not make broad sweeping generalizations.

So the Catholic church and the various Protestant do not actively oppose gay marriage??? I do not care who funds the campaign, I care about why people will vote "yes"

 

[SFC I-Side]

Y the fuck is homosexuality a good thing? Why should I embrace it? Why are we saying its ok to be homosexual?In San Francisco, like other cities im sure. WE TREAT FAGS BETTER THAN BLACKS. Fuck em, bunch of fruity confused folk, butt hurt, no pun intended, cuz the catholic church says go fuck yourself, two dudes cant get married. marriage is traditionaly a religious matter. Im not saying we should gas homos or allow people to beat them on the street, but the fact that we are embracing their "culture" is really sad.

 

[SFC I-Side]

culture of lifestyle for that matter

 

[HERESY]

So the Catholic church and the various Protestant do not actively oppose gay marriage???

They are on both sides of the fence of prop 8. However, it appears the Catholic church is more involved than the Protestants. However, the LDS appear to have more of an impact than either of the two.

I do not care who funds the campaign, I care about why people will vote "yes"

People will vote yes because of the campaign, because you can't have a campaign without funding. And you should care who funds the campaign because if the LDS weren't involved, the campaign wouldn't be what it is today.

 

[ThaG]

Y the fuck is homosexuality a good thing? Why should I embrace it? Why are we saying its ok to be homosexual?In San Francisco, like other cities im sure. WE TREAT FAGS BETTER THAN BLACKS. Fuck em, bunch of fruity confused folk, butt hurt, no pun intended, cuz the catholic church says go fuck yourself, two dudes cant get married. marriage is traditionaly a religious matter. Im not saying we should gas homos or allow people to beat them on the street, but the fact that we are embracing their "culture" is really sad.

Giving more rights to certain groups just because they're different is absolutely wrong. That's actually one of the reasons why I do not like gays. The moment when we stop separating people into groups will be the moment when discrimination has disappeared.

However, that does not mean you don't have to say "No" to Prop 8. Because if this passes, it will be the first step, followed by many others, and then suddenly, it's 2050 and we have a Christian Sharia instead of laws

 

[HERESY]

In this country, you'll never have a "christian" theocracy or sharia.

 

[ThaG]

In this country, you'll never have a "christian" theocracy or sharia.

I hope so, but I am increasingly less sure about it

however, a complete Christian theocracy is not at all needed for this country to be essentially unlivable

 

[coondogg26]

Y the fuck is homosexuality a good thing? Why should I embrace it? Why are we saying its ok to be homosexual?In San Francisco, like other cities im sure. WE TREAT FAGS BETTER THAN BLACKS. Fuck em, bunch of fruity confused folk, butt hurt, no pun intended, cuz the catholic church says go fuck yourself, two dudes cant get married. marriage is traditionaly a religious matter. Im not saying we should gas homos or allow people to beat them on the street, but the fact that we are embracing their "culture" is really sad.

I agree with some of what your saying. People are acting like gay people are a oppressed peoples. Fuck that. They have it great in California. They have ruined San Francisco and made it look like a joke to the rest of the country. Im all for civil rights but these people take it to far. I'm supposed to respect freaks like this?
You come into our church and make a mockery of us in our place of worship, fuck that. If they're gay, they're gay but stop with all the in-your-face and disgusting behavior.

 

[ThaG]

BTW, am I the only one who thinks that there are much more important propositions to be discussed (and voted "yes") like 1A, 7 and 10?

And that some idiots are wasting our time with non-issues?

 

[WHITE DEVIL]

xcfgdfhdfhdfhdfhfg

Whoopy fuck doo

 

[Foul Mouth]

This has to be one of the most worthless and biased threads I've had the displeasure of reading since I've been back.

@the OP, I'll just go ahead and kill your thread now.

You said:



This is your entire argument right here. Now answer this, what about the religious groups that do support gay marriage and said to vote no on 8? What about the non-religious groups that don't support it and said yes?

Just like you don't want religion in school (and neither do I but for different reasons) I don't want teachers pulling this shit with my folks:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445865,00.html

Your bringing up the non-religious groups who are voting yes.If that was my arguments you would've got me.........But that has nothing to do with this thread............

You can deny it all you want, but religion is playing a big role on this prop. Go on the Yes on 8 site, look at the endorsments and supporting churches page........My whole point is religion should not play a role in law.If your church dont want to marry gays then fine, thats your church, this is not the church's state........I dont know how you killed the thread, that post went no where.........

 

[Foul Mouth]

Heres my specific groups........
and Heresy, its funny ho you bring up Mormons.......LOL.........terrible argument.........If you read thu my whole first post, you just proved my point about the hypocracy........The Mormons are one of the biggest contributors of this campaign, yet arent they the group with the most non-traditional marriage views? I mean thats the group who have a bunch of wives right?
With that said, re-read my first post, its about religion in law, and hypocracy...........You just helped me out............


Endorsements:
A. V. Alpha & Omega Ministries, Palmdale
Abundant Life Assembly of God, Copeland
All Seasons Ministries, El Cajon
Alpha and Omega Arlington Apostolic Church, Riverside
Alpine Anglican Church, Alpine
Amador Family Fellowship
Baldwin Park Church of Christ
Bethel Christian Fellowship
Bible Fellowship Church, Ventura
Biggs Community Assembly of God
Bright Mission Chapel
Bundy Canyon Christian Church and School, Wildomar
Calvary Assembly of God
Calvary Assembly, Milpitas
Calvary Baptist Church
Calvary Baptist Church, Modesto
Calvary Chapel of the Harbour
Calvary Chapel Chino Hills
Calvary Chapel Rancho Santa Margarita
Calvary Christian Center
Calvary Church
Calvary Temple
Camarillo Community Church
Canopy of Prayer Ministries
Canyon View Church of Christ, San Diego
Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament
Centerpoint Church
Central Baptist Church of Indio
Centro Cristiano Pan De Vida
Chapel in the Pines, Arnold
Chinese Evangelical Free Church, Monterey Park
Chinese Grace Bible Church, Sacramento
Christ Driven Church of Fowler Ca.
Christian Life Assembly
Christian Life Center
Christian Life Tools
Christian Outreach for Armenians, Glendale
Church of Christ, Upland
Church of the Living Christ
Church of the Living God of Perris
Church of the Nazarene
Church of the Rock
Church of Scientology of San Diego
Community Counseling Services, Inc.
Community Christian Alliance Church
Core Christian Fellowship, Murrieta
Cornerstone Baptist Church
Cornerstone Baptist Church, Nicholasville KY
Cornerstone Christian Church, El Dorado Hills
Cornerstone Community Church of San Clemente
Cornerstone Fellowship, Livermore
CrossPoint Community Church of the Nazarene
Dan Kricorian Ministries Int'l
Dayspring Christian Fellowship
Desert Stream Ministries
Destiny Faith Center
Divine Mercy Knights of Columbus (14158), Natomas
Door of Faith Ministries International
East Clairemont Baptist Church, San Diego
Eastside Christian Church
El Cajon Wesleyan Church, El Cajon
Elsinore Christian Center, Lake Elsinore
Evangelical Free Church of Walnut
Faith Chapel Church of God in Christ, San Diego
Faith Community Church by the Sea, Encinitas
Faith Tabernacle
Faith to Faith Fellowship, Temecula
F.C.F. Int'l Ministries
Filipino American Community Church
First Baptist Church Anaheim
First Baptist Church of Fillmore
First Baptist Church of Hesperia
First Baptist Church of Menlo Park
First Baptist Church of Taft
First Baptist Church, Lomita
First Evangelical Church of Cerritos
First Fil-Am Christian Church
First Foursquare Gospel Church of San Jose, San Jose
First Fundamental Bible Church of Monterey Park
First Presbyterian Church, Amarillo TX
First Southern Baptist, Yucca Valley
Fontana Foursquare Church
Foxworthy Baptist Church
Free Indeed Christian Fellowship, Perris
Freedom Community Christian Church, Perris
Freewill Missionary Baptist Church, San Diego
Freewill Missionary Baptist Church, San Diego
Friends Church, Yorba Linda
Friendship Christian Fellowship Church, Moreno Valley
Gem of the Valley Church, Murrieta
God’s Word Church, Apple Valley
Golden Altar Ministries, San Jose
Golden Gate Christian Church
Hamilton Square Baptist Church
Harvest Christian Fellowship
Heart of the Canyons Church
High Desert Church, Victorville
Highland Springs Fellowship, Banning
Hillsdale Baptist Church, North Highlands
Hope Vineyard Church, Santa Clarita
House of Luke, Hemet
Independent Church of Lake Elsinore
Irvine First Chinese Baptist Church
Joy Ministry for Christ, Los Angeles
Jubilee Family Church, Oskaloosa IA
Kingdom Conditioning Ministries, INC.
Koinonia Evangelistic Center, Moreno Valley
Lake Murray Church, Assemblies of God
Life Center Church, Lakewood
Light by the Bay Church, San Lorenzo
Lighthouse Assembly of God, Murrieta
Lighthouse Community Church, Lathrop
Live Ride Christian Church
Living Faith Christian Fellowship, Garden Grove
Living Stones Ministries
Living Word Christian Church, San Diego
Love and Unity Church of God in Christ, Compton
Luke Four Eighteen Ministries International, Temecula
Maranatha Chapel
Maranatha Chapel, Rancho Bernardo
Menlo Park Community Church of God in Christ, Menlo Park
Meridian Southern Baptist, El Cajon
Mount Pisgah Baptist Church, San Diego
Mountain View Community Church, Temecula
Mount Zion Assemblies
Napoleon Washington, Jr. Evangelistic Assn.
Nations Harvest Church, Sunnyvale
New Birth Kingdom Covenant
New Covenant Ministries Christian Fellowship
New Day Church
New Destiny Christian Church, Inc.
New Life Presbyterian Church
New Light Church of God, Riverside
New Seasons Church
Newhall Church of the Nazarene
New Venture Christian Fellowship
Northside Christian Church
Oasis of Faith Christian Center
Oroville Nazarene Church
Our Lady of the Redwoods Catholic Church
Our Redeemer Lives Church, Lake Elsinore
Paradise Hills Southern Baptist Church
Progressive M.B.C. of Berkeley
Rancho Baptist Church, Temecula
Ray of Hope Church, Pomona
Redemption Christian Fellowship
Refuge Ministries
Resurrection Power Ministries
Revival Christian Fellowship, Menifee
Ripon Grace Brethren Church
Rose Drive Friends Church, Yorba Linda
Rubidoux First Assembly of God
San Antonio Heights Community Church, San Bernardino
San Diego Christian Worship Center, San Diego
San Jose Church of Christ, San Jose
San Jose Foursquare Church, San Jose
San Jose Open Bible Church, San Jose
San Jose Word of Faith Christian Center, San Jose
San Mateo Pro Life
Santa Rosa Diocesan Council of Catholic Women
Set Free Ministries of San Diego, San Diego
Seventh Day Sabbath Second Advent Church
Sierra Madre Congregational Church
Shepherd of the Hills
Skyline Wesleyan Church, El Cajon
Solid Ground Brethren in Christ Church, Alta Loma
Sonoma Valley Community Church
South Coast Christian Assembly
South Valley Christian Church, San Jose
Southwest Christian Church, Temecula
Southwest Community Church, Indian Wells
Spirit Life Worship Center
St. Andrew Orthodox Church
St. Joseph Church
St Timothy Orthodox Church
St. Mary Catholic Church
St. Patrick's Church
State College Blvd. Church of Christ, Anaheim
Survivors of Assault Recovery/Living Word Christian Church, San Diego
TEN27 Church
The Bridge Church
The Calvary Chapel Churches
The Church of God of Prophecy, National City
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
The Home Church, Campbell
The Oasis Foursquare Church
The Rock Church, San Diego
Trinity Baptist Church
Tyler Baptist Church, Riverside
Valley Christian Church, Chino
Victory International Church, San Mateo
Victory Outreach of Eagle Rock
Vineyard Family Christian Fellowship, Downey
Vista Hope Church of the Nazarene
Voices of Hope Ministries
Whittier Church of Christ, Whittier
Wildwood Calvary Chapel
Windsor Hills Baptist Church, La Mesa
Word of Life Ministries Int’l, Riverside
Word of Truth Ministries
World Overcomers Church International
Zion Christian Fellowship, Spring Valley
Zion Lutheran Church, North Highlands, CA

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

The Mormons are one of the biggest contributors of this campaign, yet arent they the group with the most non-traditional marriage views? I mean thats the group who have a bunch of wives right?

The majority do not take multiple wives. That's only the FLDS (Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints).

 

[HERESY]

Your bringing up the non-religious groups who are voting yes.If that was my arguments you would've got me.........But that has nothing to do with this thread............

Your entire argument is based on religious people pushing this prop, and you are attempting to make it seem as if religious people are the only people backing it. So, why are you not considering the non-religious who are funding it, or the religious people that are actually against it, as it has EVERYTHING to do with this thread and would add more validity if you provided the info. However, providing the info actually detracts from your entire premise, so I can see why yould blatently choose to dismiss it.

You can deny it all you want, but religion is playing a big role on this prop.

Is it being pushed by "religion" or a vast group of "religious people"? If religion is playing a big role in pushing this prop, it is also playing a big role in opposing the prop, so what do you have to say for the religious institutions that oppose it?

Go on the Yes on 8 site, look at the endorsments and supporting churches page........My whole point is religion should not play a role in law.

And go to the No on 8 site, look at the faith-based page.........my whole point is religion is playing on BOTH sides of this, yet YOU are only attacking ONE side and thats the side that has views that don't coincide with yours. So throw religion out of it for a second, and tell me, what do you have to say about the non-religious entities that support 8?

If your church dont want to marry gays then fine, thats your church, this is not the church's state........I dont know how you killed the thread, that post went no where.........

This thread is dead because I'm showing how biased you really are, and I'm also showing you probably don't know much about what you're talking about. Also, your lack of involvment and unwillingness to answer practical questions based on your premise and argument lead me to the conclusion that yes, this thread is indeed dead.

Concerning the church, and this prop you would have a point if it weren't for the following: 1. As others previously mentioned, marriage is a RELIGIOUS institution/observence. 2. There are others outside of religion who support this prop.

 

[HERESY]

Heres my specific groups........
and Heresy, its funny ho you bring up Mormons.......LOL.........terrible argument.........If you read thu my whole first post, you just proved my point about the hypocracy........The Mormons are one of the biggest contributors of this campaign, yet arent they the group with the most non-traditional marriage views? I mean thats the group who have a bunch of wives right?
With that said, re-read my first post, its about religion in law, and hypocracy...........You just helped me out............

I didn't help you out, and the fact that you didn't know the info I posted before you made this thread, the LDS or their contributions shows me you really don't know much about what you're talking about. You simply want to make the 9,908,765th thread devoted to attacking religion.

Concerning the endorsements you listed, here is a list of religious institutions and associations that DON'T endorse it.

Affirming Spirits of the First Congregational United Church of Christ
All Saints Episcopal Church
Altadena Community Church United Church of Christ
Apple Seed Friends Meeting
Berkeley Fellowship Unitarian Universalists
Beth Chayim Chadashim (BCC)
Beth El Congregation
Bloom in the Desert Ministries UCC/Methodist
Board of Rabbis of Southern California
Board of Trustees, Unitarian Universalist Church of Ventura
California Church IMPACT
Call to Action / USA
Catholic Democrats of California
California Faith for Equality
Christ Chapel Metropolitan Community Church
Church of the Foothills
Claremont United Methodist Church
Clergy and Laity for Economic Justice Santa Barbara
Clergy United, Inc.
Community Church of Atascadero, UCC
Conejo Valley Unitarian Universalist Fellowship
Congregation Beth Am
Congregation Beth El
Congregation Church of Belmont UCC
Congregation Kol Ami
Council of Churches of Santa Clara County
The Episcopal Diocese of California
Fair Oaks United Methodist Church
First Congregational Church, Riverside
First Congregational United Church of Christ
First Presbyterian Church of Palo Alto
First Unitarian-Universalist Church of San Diego
Golden Gate Association of the Northern California Nevada Conference of the United Church of Christ
Hollywood Lutheran Church
Immanuel Presbyterian Church
Institute for Judaism and Sexual Orientation
Interfaith Clergy Coalition
Irvine United Congregational Church, UCC
Jewish Community Relations Council SF, the Peninsula, Marin, Sonoma, Alameda and Contra Costa Counties
Jewish Family Service of Los Angeles
LGBTQI Interfaith Clergy Council of Los Angeles
Lutherans Concerned – Los Angeles
Lutherans Concerned – North America
Metropolitan Community Church of the Coachella Valley
Metropolitan Community Church Los Angeles
Metropolitan Community Church – Region 6
Metropolitan Community Church in the Valley
Ministry in Action Commission, St. Mark’s United Methodist Church
Mira Vista United Church of Christ
Mission Hills United Church of Christ
Mormons for Marriage
Mount Diablo Unitarian Universalist Church
Orange Coast Unitarian Universalist Church
Pacific Association of Reform Rabbis
Pacific Central District of the Unitarian Universalist Association
Pacific School of Religion
Pacific Southwest District, Unitarian Universalist Association
Palomar Unitarian Universalist Fellowship
Pilgrim United Church of Christ of Carlsbad
Progressive Jewish Alliance
Redlands United Church of Christ
Region One Metropolitan Community Church
Sacramento Call to Action
Saint Aidan’s Episcopal Church
Saint Paul Lutheran Church
San Marino Congressional UCC
Sepulveda Unitarian Universalist Society
Social Justice Committee, Unitarian Society of Santa Barbara
Starr King Unitarian Universalist Church
St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church
St. John’s Presbyterian Church
St. Luke’s Episcopal Church
St. Matthew’s Lutheran Church
Stone Church of Willow Glen
Temple Adat Shalom
Temple Isaiah
The Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies in Religion
The Episcopal Church of St. John the Evangelist
The Metropolitan Community Church of San Diego
The Southern California Nevada Conference of the United Church of Christ
The Workmen’s Circle – Arbeter Ring
Union for Reform Judaism – Pacific Southwest Council
Union for Reform Judaism – Pacific Central West Council
Unitarian Universalist Church in Anaheim
Unitarian Universalist Church of Berkeley
Unitarian Universalist Church of Davis
Unitarian Universalist Church of Fresno
Unitarian Universalist Church of Long Beach
Unitarian Universalist Church of Palo Alto
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Monica
Unitarian Universalist Church of Studio City
Unitarian Universalist Church of Ventura
Unitarian Universalist Community of the Mountains
Unitarian Universalist Community Church – Sacramento
Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Marin
Unitarian Universalist Congregation, Santa Rosa
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Los Gatos
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of San Dieguito
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of San Louis Obispo County, Board of Trustees
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Stanislaus County
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Tuolmne County
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Visalia
Unitarian Universalist Laguna Beach – Board of Trustees
Unitarian Universalist Legislative Ministry Action Network
Unitarian Universalist Legislative Ministry, CA
Unitarian Universalist of Santa Clarita Valley
Unitarian Universalist Society of Sacramento
Valley Ministries MCC

 

[Foul Mouth]

for your "religion is on both sides" argument ,i aint talkin bout the ones who are voting no. it has nothing to do with them. my argument is for no laws based on religion. if certain religious groups oppose 8, fine, religion is still a major factor for this prop. i dont know why thats so hard for you to grasp. maybe im not sayin it right...........i see what your saying about me attacking one side of it because there views dont coincide with mine, but dont you see, im "attacking" the ones who are voting for a law that affects people whos lifestyles dont coincide with theres......it doesnt affect them economicly, its not gonna make there home values go down, its not gonna cause cuts to programs............its cus they "believe" it is wrong due to there religion..........

now as far as the other groups that arent religious groups and are for 8, its bigotry. they dont like it so it should be law..........

i dont like the KKK, but i ackowledge there right to preach hate (but not act on violently).........im not gonna vote to ban them based on my prejudice................





i answered all your questions..........

 

[HERESY]

for your "religion is on both sides" argument ,i aint talkin bout the ones who are voting no. it has nothing to do with them. my argument is for no laws based on religion. if certain religious groups oppose 8, fine, religion is still a major factor for this prop.

You can't say, "my argument is for no laws based on religion" yet in the very next sentence say, " certain religious groups oppose 8, fine." You either want religious institutions to partake in it or you don't. You can't say it's ok for this group to partake in it but it isn't ok for that group to partake in it.

Yes, "religion" is a major factor in this prop, but I'm trying to get you to see you have specific religious organizations spearheading the movement. I'm also trying to get you to see that "religion" is a very broad term and may not help your argument.

i dont know why thats so hard for you to grasp. maybe im not sayin it right...........i see what your saying about me attacking one side of it because there views dont coincide with mine, but dont you see, im "attacking" the ones who are voting for a law that affects people whos lifestyles dont coincide with theres......

I don't see why it's hard for you to grasp that you're also endorsing a group of people who are voting no for a law that affects people who's lifestyle doesn't coincide with theirs.

now as far as the other groups that arent religious groups and are for 8, its bigotry. they dont like it so it should be law..........

How do you know this? Did you poll those guys and ask them why? Do you even know anything about the non-religious people who are pushing this?

i dont like the KKK, but i ackowledge there right to preach hate (but not act on violently).........im not gonna vote to ban them based on my prejudice................

i answered all your questions..........

The kkk reference doesn't make much sense at all. Concerning you answering my questions I think you just tossed some shit out there just because, but it's cool.