Maturing? Or just lying to ourselves?

[wheregoliathat]

@Dhadnot
These young rap dudes didn't grow up on new break dancing shit or the "up jump the boogie" tho. Them dudes you referenced were only lookin back one musical generation (for the fuck of it let's call this 10 years) to the shit they grew up on when they were maybe 10-16, and started formulating there musical sound to that ish.

These 90's babies makin tunes are just lookin back one musical generation too but they grew up on Eminem, Jay-Z's Big Pimpin era, Mac Dre (hence all the self-expression and unconventional style) and whatever else.

When I look at some of the shit comin out around the country I'm feelin it yo. Now if we're lookin at the bay area I would say this shit done passed me by for the most part. Music evolves and tastes change.

Beatles to Green Day is a huge difference in sound and if our parents bridge that gap and think newer era shit is righteous then good for them. I would argue that someone that grew up on the Beatles and now feels Green Day or whatever the fuck is not that different than someone that grew up 3X Crazy and now likes Cali Swag District.

Maybe we're hella closed minded and stuck in a prior era.

With your theorizing explain the Boy Boy Young Mess and his musical evolution from decent shit to absolute slap to now dog shit.

 

[Old_Wize_One]

NO MATURITY, JUST MORE AND MORE FAGGOT SHIT BY THE YEAR...ITS A WRAP BAY AREA RAP SCENE

 

[ThaG]

They might prefer the Beatles over Green Day, but I still hear alot more older folks who listened to a genre 20-30 years ago say oh, I like that beyonce, or Rihanna, or that Franz Fernidad. I think it's less with the hiphoppers 28 and up because this new generation don't have no historical backing, like at all.

Where you could hear Snoop talking about the Delfonics or Kanye with Chaka Kahn, Raekwon with Shalamar, etc. young niggas think Eminem is old school. This has largely to do, at least I think, with black culture and how many of these 80's young adults, 90's kids don't/didn't have strong households, playin some good shit for them plus this fucked up mentality that started in black culture with that fuck them old niggas attitude. Rock artist, and R&B, etc. the artists in those genre always talk about old singers, groups they have a sense of history, artistry etc. That shit went out of style with rap, once the niggas born in the 70's got old.

In general, life has become very fast and leaves people no time for reflection, much less for thinking about the past. In a previous post I was talking about how hip-hop going downhill has little to do with hip-hop itself, but is a functional consequence of general societal trends, the same point applies here 100%. The young generation has no memory of the past even though, paradoxically, it has more information about it than any previous generation. For which there is no excuse, but that's how it is, it is not really their fault in the sense that they consciously chose to be ignorant about history, it is just that the environment they live in enforces that kind of attitude. I personally missed the 80s because I was born then, so I never really experienced the 80s hip-hop in all its glory, but I have done my research and heard all the classics that were made in that period. I still naturally prefer the 90s more because that's the period i grew up in so I have lots of memories associated with the music of the period, but I know what hip-hop was like in the 80s, and I have done my homework about its roots in the previous decades too. But I see a lot of people in their teens today for whom even the 90s don't exist...

Also, the corporatization of rap brought in more money then the music has ever seen, but it killed the spirit of the music. Remember rap is still a part of Hip Hop -and even all the 90's gangsta rappers reference Hip Hop shit Tay said he was a b-boy and battle rapper- And hip hop gives rap its rules: be fresh, stylish, don't bite, you can be kicked off the mic/stage if you wack, rock the crowd, keep shit hype. All that shit don't matter no more...the hip hop in rap is dead, so in essence the music is a shell of what it used to be.

My book for the day.

100% true and that's the real problem - all of that has been completely forgotten...

 

[triple stacks]

everyone is free to hate and continue the tradition of getting old and hating the youth culture. this happened with jazz, blues, rock, funk, rap, just about every new take on music. I dont like the shit coming out of the bay these days, but I dont hate just because i'm older

 

[ThaG]

everyone is free to hate and continue the tradition of getting old and hating the youth culture. this happened with jazz, blues, rock, funk, rap, just about every new take on music. I dont like the shit coming out of the bay these days, but I dont hate just because i'm older

I don't think anyone here is hating just because they're old and bitter, they're complaining that the music sucks because the music really sucks.

 

[triple stacks]

I don't think anyone here is hating just because they're old and bitter, they're complaining that the music sucks because the music really sucks.

Just saying. parents in the 20's said jazz, swing and rag wasn't music and was terrible. parents in the 50's said rock and roll wasn't music, parents in the 80's said rap want music. see the trend.

 

[Young Lou]

Good music is good music no matter what generation/genre that it comes from. It has very little to do with age. Sure most folks enjoy the artists that they grew up listening to but the truth is that 90% of the music on the radio is pure garbage!!! JEEZY new stuff sound weak, KANYE & JAY Z sound watered down and them new niggaz are terrible sounding like robots. T.I. sounds like prison has gotten the best of him. ANDRE 3000 sounds washed up. The radio won't play NIPSEY HUSSLE or FREDDIE GIBBS or BIG K.R.I.T. cause they music is authentic and doesn't fit the mold of the bullshit they play. F*ck this topic!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[ThaG]

Just saying. parents in the 20's said jazz, swing and rag wasn't music and was terrible. parents in the 50's said rock and roll wasn't music, parents in the 80's said rap want music. see the trend.

No, I don't see any trend because there are crucial differences. All of the things you listed are examples of the new generation creating a new genre and a new culture around it. That's not at all the case today - what exactly is/are the musical movement(s) of the current young generation? There aren't any, the closest thing to it are various dances that go in and out of fashion over the course of a few months to a year, but there has been no new form of expression, no really new style, nothing. Instead in the mainstream all genres of music (not just hip-hop) have been converging towards the same watered down bland mixture of styles dominated by gay-pop aesthetics and commercialization brought to the extreme. Around that, there are small isolated subcultures but they are small, isolated and insignificant.

The hippies stood for something, hip-hop in the first 20 years of its existence stood for something, right now nobody stands up for anything other than some very shallow instant gratification. That's the difference and it is a very big one.

P.S. We're not even talking about parents here in the traditional sense of parents not liking their children's music, most people here are not that old yet.

 

[triple stacks]

No, I don't see any trend because there are crucial differences. All of the things you listed are examples of the new generation creating a new genre and a new culture around it. That's not at all the case today - what exactly is/are the musical movement(s) of the current young generation? There aren't any, the closest thing to it are various dances that go in and out of fashion over the course of a few months to a year, but there has been no new form of expression, no really new style, nothing. Instead in the mainstream all genres of music (not just hip-hop) have been converging towards the same watered down bland mixture of styles dominated by gay-pop aesthetics and commercialization brought to the extreme. Around that, there are small isolated subcultures but they are small, isolated and insignificant.

The hippies stood for something, hip-hop in the first 20 years of its existence stood for something, right now nobody stands up for anything other than some very shallow instant gratification. That's the difference and it is a very big one.

P.S. We're not even talking about parents here in the traditional sense of parents not liking their children's music, most people here are not that old yet.

That was the same critique in the 20's. jazz became popular and then it too became a series of music created around fads and different dances of the time (fox trot, shimmy, Charleston). and popluar music has almost always sucked (with maybe the exception of the golden age of rap). Those hippies that stood for something were not on the top 40. top 40 in the 60's was still mostly watered down shit. hendrix never charted in the US when he was alive and the greatful dead never had a hit. once popular culture is done with a genre it only ever continues to exist in the underground

 

[antilabs]

romanticize and over-rationalize the past all you want, it doesn't change shit. triple stacks is right.

you argue that "there's no new movement" associated with rap music right now. punk rock didn't really differentiate itself from normal rock & roll in any big way at the time when it came out, and thus, in the context of the time wasn't considered a "new movement" to its dissenters. the only thing that stood out about it was that the musicianship and instrumentation wasn't as skilled as their predecessors, and they dressed different. when it came down to it, the only thing they knew about it was that they didn't like it, which is about the only thing that people that talk shit on new rap know about new rap.

we now know through contextualization of the era and hindsight that was incorrect. when it comes to something as subjective as art or music, just because you don't like something, doesn't mean other people are wrong for liking it. people going to great lengths to rationalize how they are right and everyone else is wrong about something subjective (like music), is a fool's errand. period.

 

[Dhadnot]

That was the same critique in the 20's. jazz became popular and then it too became a series of music created around fads and different dances of the time (fox trot, shimmy, Charleston). and popluar music has almost always sucked (with maybe the exception of the golden age of rap). Those hippies that stood for something were not on the top 40. top 40 in the 60's was still mostly watered down shit. hendrix never charted in the US when he was alive and the greatful dead never had a hit. once popular culture is done with a genre it only ever continues to exist in the underground

wrong jazz came together as a black sort of sexual music that was looked down upon by hwhite parents and authorities same with rock n roll. Hip hop is not the same. you cant compare those musics and the culture they brought with them to the new sound of music that already has a culture , and the music in the genre was more brutal and in your face. Basically we would be bebop jazz artist looking down on soft jazz, while your thinking we're like people who like classical music looking down on pop music.

 

[Dhadnot]

romanticize and over-rationalize the past all you want, it doesn't change shit. triple stacks is right.

you argue that "there's no new movement" associated with rap music right now. punk rock didn't really differentiate itself from normal rock & roll in any big way at the time when it came out, and thus, in the context of the time wasn't considered a "new movement" to its dissenters. the only thing that stood out about it was that the musicianship and instrumentation wasn't as skilled as their predecessors, and they dressed different. when it came down to it, the only thing they knew about it was that they didn't like it, which is about the only thing that people that talk shit on new rap know about new rap.

we now know through contextualization of the era and hindsight that was incorrect. when it comes to something as subjective as art or music, just because you don't like something, doesn't mean other people are wrong for liking it. people going to great lengths to rationalize how they are right and everyone else is wrong about something subjective (like music), is a fool's errand. period.

your wrong and I'll break it down later.

 

[wheregoliathat]

@Anti
Damn near everything argued on the Sicc is subjective, cuz arguin about objective shit ain't really arguein it's simply sonnin people.

this new bay shit is a movement and it's a movement that most 25+ year olds don't identify with. We lose touch and they lose the possible cash outta our pockets. I'm sure they will do aight and so will we.

I would also argue that new movements are easy to spot, but that doesn't mean they are easy to accept

 

[lopro]

I swear some of you guys act like your generation was untouchable, simply because it was yours. Shit music generates through every generation. You guys can sit and talk about there's no talent in music today, but hey, you guys had Milli Vanilli, along with various others. Girl you know it's, girl you know it's, girl you knows it's.

 

[localstar907]

or maybe you get old and the story recycles its self. When I was in high school my pops used to say the music I listened to was garbage and in his day it was better. My grandmother said the same thing to my pops and my great grandmother said the same thing to her.

 

[S.L.A.B]

No, its not 100% true, my mother for example likes quite a lot of rap that I listen to and so do some other older people that I know.

 

[Dhadnot]

You guys are acting like the music from every generation is equal and they all come into their own and are known as classics. wrong. Every music after a certain period time has their golden age, means their best period when the music was gassin everything else in the genre before or after. This is the shit that's taught in schools, agreed upon by most professional critics and the regular music lover critic you and me, layed on the radio on a classic station, etc.

It's like 80's hair metal, that shit was the shit in the 80's if you were cool and mainstream and into rock in the 80's you liked that shit. But it was looked down upon by punk rockers, rocker's from the 70's and earlier, etc. for alot of the same reasons rap is looked down upon by hip hoppers, older rap fans etc. And in the 80's if you hated on hair rock, glam metal, etc. you were just a hater a weirdo, liked old shit, etc. same BS we hear today. But now, in general, that shit is looked down as absolute cheesy bullshit ass crap. Only a few artists get mentioned from that era. And that's only one of the many sub-genres, and generes of music that were "dope" in it's youth.

That's how music is, not everything grows into its own and blossoms and others are just bitter and old, that's what mf'rs want you to believe.

 

[triple stacks]

wrong jazz came together as a black sort of sexual music that was looked down upon by hwhite parents and authorities same with rock n roll. Hip hop is not the same. you cant compare those musics and the culture they brought with them to the new sound of music that already has a culture , and the music in the genre was more brutal and in your face. Basically we would be bebop jazz artist looking down on soft jazz, while your thinking we're like people who like classical music looking down on pop music.

Thats not where jazz came from. your making it out to be a racial thing which it wasnt. jazz was popular with the white youth as well. look up benny goodman.
but regardless. music is an ever evolving artform, nothing popular in it stays the same. old musicians either evolve with it or go into an underground scene that has followers (which isnt a bad thing). any musician with a successful commercial career has done this. Dont belive me, listen to the beginning and end of of a career of someone like louis armstrong, bob marley, or eminem. sound changes, style changes and there will always be die hard fans that dont like a new sound. thats music

 

[wheregoliathat]

@Dhadnot mos def each musical era is not created equal out chea.

The moral of the story is musical preference is evolving and cyclical and people love to hate different shit...

In related news Lil B is fuckin turrible

 

[Dhadnot]

Thats not where jazz came from. your making it out to be a racial thing which it wasnt. jazz was popular with the white youth as well. look up benny goodman.
but regardless. music is an ever evolving artform, nothing popular in it stays the same. old musicians either evolve with it or go into an underground scene that has followers (which isnt a bad thing). any musician with a successful commercial career has done this. Dont belive me, listen to the beginning and end of of a career of someone like louis armstrong, bob marley, or eminem. sound changes, style changes and there will always be die hard fans that dont like a new sound. thats music

what? I was saying thats what jazz was labeled as by older white folk as an evil negro vulgar music, from the church to country club, etc.. I'm not tryna turn it racial but at that time that's how they saw it. Just like rap was seen by older black folks as som vulgar no melody or skill BS when it came out