Marquez Foot stopper against Pacman III
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That is not at all how to score boxing. It's fine if you think Pac won but punch counts are not the way to make your point. You think the judges sit at ringside with counters? Pacquiao landed about 3 more punches per round according to those stats if we're taking them as gospel no way should that automatically mean he won the fight.
And you do have to watch the fight to figure anything out. Only time you don't have to watch a fight to figure out what happened is when someone got blown away.
And you do have to watch the fight to figure anything out. Only time you don't have to watch a fight to figure out what happened is when someone got blown away.
Naner12-You're talking to Manny fans logic doesn’t matter to them. 30 more punches landed in a 12 round fight is a blow out now of days. Moving forward and missing punches is the new art of boxing. So boxing and counter punching a guy with clean hard shots all night is not good enough to win fights nowadays in boxing. I'm sick of corny no boxing IQ having casual fans messing up the sport of boxing. What the fuck happened to the art of hitting and not getting hit back. Now all the so-called fans want to see are two non-defenses having fighters stand in front of each other throwing nothing but hooks landing at 27-30% accuracy rate and that’s called a great boxer nowadays. This Bullshit is killing the sport of boxing. HBO the number 1 boxing network is part of the blame for fight up the sport hating on every good boxer for the last 20 years. It’s like for real so boxing and counter boxing is running from a guy now. A sad day in boxing..
oh my goodness. if there are no KO's or penalties, who ever lands more punches in a round gets a 10. do the math. thats it! its so simple. Its how boxing is scored. and thats how its probably gonna be scored forever. pacquiao won more rounds. i had no doubt at all that Pac won that fight. Clearly. He said it himself.
Marquez was great. if he would have been the agressor in the last 2 rounds the decision would have went to him. But he chose to chill. BUT! BUT!
Any fighter who choses to fight agressive against Pac gets fucked up.
Marquez was great. if he would have been the agressor in the last 2 rounds the decision would have went to him. But he chose to chill. BUT! BUT!
Any fighter who choses to fight agressive against Pac gets fucked up.
Three reasons why Pacquiao won the fight
Manny Pacquiao had undeniably done better in past fights.
He had forced a boxing champ to throw in the towel in eight rounds. He had finished off an opponent within two rounds through three arresting knockdowns. He had turned the faces of much bigger men into pulp.
In his last fight against Juan Manuel Marquez however, there were no knockouts, no quitting from the opponent, no knees on the canvas.
Pacquiao was supposed to knock out Marquez -- wasn't this his best camp ever? Hadn't he improved in the three years that had gone by since he last met Marquez? Wasn't Pacquiao a 10-1 favorite? Didn't trainer Freddie Roach predict a beating in early rounds?
Instead, Pacquiao edged out Marquez via majority decision in a performance that was close and contested.
Filipinos, and Pacquiao fans the world over, are used to seeing the People's Champ win easily and decisively. In his most recent fight on November 12 however, this wasn't the case.
But it doesn't mean he lost.
Breaking it down
In the end, quite simply, wins are not always crystal clear absent of knockouts, and not all debatable losses are robberies. A technical breakdown of the majority decision shows that it did not warrant the boos or bottles thrown by a crowd that was carried away by how the fight appeared, rather than what actually transpired.
It is essential to understand how fights are scored, to understand that it is not the crowd's cheers or perception at the end of a match that dictate the winner. Style matters, the type of punches thrown matters, technique matters.
1) What's in a score?
At the beginning of every round, both fighters are even at 10-10. If one begins to dominate and ends up winning the round, the winner is given 10 points, while the other gets nine, unless there is a knockdown (in which case the round is scored 10-8, and an extra point is added for any subsequent knockdown, so a second knockdown in the same round is scored 10-7, and so on). In rounds that are judged incredibly even, they are scored 10-10. But the most important thing to note is this: whether the round was won decisively (as with Marquez dominating Pacquiao in middle rounds) or whether it was a close round (as with the beginning and later rounds of the fight), the score is 10-9, sans a knockdown.
Pacquiao may have lost a number of rounds but he also won others -- something the crowd seemed to forget because the rounds Marquez won were more definitive, more convincing. The final score, however, is tallied by adding up the number of rounds won.
ESPN quoted a post-fight tweet by Bob Papa, HBO's "Boxing After Dark" announcer, who explained it most accurately: "Even though feels like JMM won, I had draw. You MUST score each Rd and write it down Then add up at end. 'Feel' & actual score differ often."
2) Stats support the judges
CompuBox statistics show Papa is right. CompuBox, a computerized scoring system used in boxing fights to count and categorize punches, supported the judges' decision: Pacquiao threw more punches, connected a higher number of punches, and landed more power punches than Marquez.
CompuBox works via two operators; in a fight, two operators are in charge of the system, one operator per fighter. Each operator has four keys that they hit every time their fighter connects a jab, misses a jab, connects a power punch, and misses a power punch. Of course, power punches -- punches that are a hook, an uppercut or a cross, basically anything aside from a jab -- are scored more.
Pacquiao threw and landed more power punches than Marquez.
But it was close. Their stat report for the fight reads, "Pacquiao had just a 117-100 edge in power shots landed, while Marquez landed the cleaner shots. Pac was busier, averaging 49 punches thrown per round to 36 per round for Marquez ."
That said, it is interesting to note that when Pacquiao defeated Marquez in 2008 via split decision, the CompuBox numbers showed that Marquez actually landed more jabs and power punches -- he landed 172 total punches out of 511 thrown -- compared to Pacquiao (157/619), even if the latter threw more punches in total. Thus, depending on which stats one looks at, one can argue that based on numbers alone, Marquez may have won the fight.
3) Underdogs have more to prove
The differences were slim, far from the lopsided performance fans usually see of Pacquiao, but when fights are that tight, judges are said to prefer the bout's aggressor.
“The rounds were all close, and when that happens you should give it to the more aggressive fighter,” Roach said after the fight. “Manny was clearly more aggressive, Marquez only tried to counterpunch him."
This is especially crucial for a fighter defending a title. Marquez aimed to take Pacquiao's WBO welterweight title from him. Because of this, as the challenger, he was expected to be the aggressor. This wasn't the case: while Marquez connected a higher percent of total punches thrown, he boxed only after Pacquiao attacked him, throwing counter punches instead of being the one to initiate the exchange. For a challenger, Marquez just didn't do enough to win. And for a defender, Pacquiao didn't do anything wrong to lose.
Hence for close rounds, Pacquiao got the nod, Pacquiao got the 10, and in the end, Pacquiao got the win.
Manny Pacquiao had undeniably done better in past fights.
He had forced a boxing champ to throw in the towel in eight rounds. He had finished off an opponent within two rounds through three arresting knockdowns. He had turned the faces of much bigger men into pulp.
In his last fight against Juan Manuel Marquez however, there were no knockouts, no quitting from the opponent, no knees on the canvas.
Pacquiao was supposed to knock out Marquez -- wasn't this his best camp ever? Hadn't he improved in the three years that had gone by since he last met Marquez? Wasn't Pacquiao a 10-1 favorite? Didn't trainer Freddie Roach predict a beating in early rounds?
Instead, Pacquiao edged out Marquez via majority decision in a performance that was close and contested.
Filipinos, and Pacquiao fans the world over, are used to seeing the People's Champ win easily and decisively. In his most recent fight on November 12 however, this wasn't the case.
But it doesn't mean he lost.
Breaking it down
In the end, quite simply, wins are not always crystal clear absent of knockouts, and not all debatable losses are robberies. A technical breakdown of the majority decision shows that it did not warrant the boos or bottles thrown by a crowd that was carried away by how the fight appeared, rather than what actually transpired.
It is essential to understand how fights are scored, to understand that it is not the crowd's cheers or perception at the end of a match that dictate the winner. Style matters, the type of punches thrown matters, technique matters.
1) What's in a score?
At the beginning of every round, both fighters are even at 10-10. If one begins to dominate and ends up winning the round, the winner is given 10 points, while the other gets nine, unless there is a knockdown (in which case the round is scored 10-8, and an extra point is added for any subsequent knockdown, so a second knockdown in the same round is scored 10-7, and so on). In rounds that are judged incredibly even, they are scored 10-10. But the most important thing to note is this: whether the round was won decisively (as with Marquez dominating Pacquiao in middle rounds) or whether it was a close round (as with the beginning and later rounds of the fight), the score is 10-9, sans a knockdown.
Pacquiao may have lost a number of rounds but he also won others -- something the crowd seemed to forget because the rounds Marquez won were more definitive, more convincing. The final score, however, is tallied by adding up the number of rounds won.
ESPN quoted a post-fight tweet by Bob Papa, HBO's "Boxing After Dark" announcer, who explained it most accurately: "Even though feels like JMM won, I had draw. You MUST score each Rd and write it down Then add up at end. 'Feel' & actual score differ often."
2) Stats support the judges
CompuBox statistics show Papa is right. CompuBox, a computerized scoring system used in boxing fights to count and categorize punches, supported the judges' decision: Pacquiao threw more punches, connected a higher number of punches, and landed more power punches than Marquez.
CompuBox works via two operators; in a fight, two operators are in charge of the system, one operator per fighter. Each operator has four keys that they hit every time their fighter connects a jab, misses a jab, connects a power punch, and misses a power punch. Of course, power punches -- punches that are a hook, an uppercut or a cross, basically anything aside from a jab -- are scored more.
Pacquiao threw and landed more power punches than Marquez.
But it was close. Their stat report for the fight reads, "Pacquiao had just a 117-100 edge in power shots landed, while Marquez landed the cleaner shots. Pac was busier, averaging 49 punches thrown per round to 36 per round for Marquez ."
That said, it is interesting to note that when Pacquiao defeated Marquez in 2008 via split decision, the CompuBox numbers showed that Marquez actually landed more jabs and power punches -- he landed 172 total punches out of 511 thrown -- compared to Pacquiao (157/619), even if the latter threw more punches in total. Thus, depending on which stats one looks at, one can argue that based on numbers alone, Marquez may have won the fight.
3) Underdogs have more to prove
The differences were slim, far from the lopsided performance fans usually see of Pacquiao, but when fights are that tight, judges are said to prefer the bout's aggressor.
“The rounds were all close, and when that happens you should give it to the more aggressive fighter,” Roach said after the fight. “Manny was clearly more aggressive, Marquez only tried to counterpunch him."
This is especially crucial for a fighter defending a title. Marquez aimed to take Pacquiao's WBO welterweight title from him. Because of this, as the challenger, he was expected to be the aggressor. This wasn't the case: while Marquez connected a higher percent of total punches thrown, he boxed only after Pacquiao attacked him, throwing counter punches instead of being the one to initiate the exchange. For a challenger, Marquez just didn't do enough to win. And for a defender, Pacquiao didn't do anything wrong to lose.
Hence for close rounds, Pacquiao got the nod, Pacquiao got the 10, and in the end, Pacquiao got the win.
This is 100% incorrect. Landing punches can mean anything. If someone gets blown away in a round then they clearly win a fight. There's meaningful punches, jabs, shoe shining type punches, set up punches etc. Don't talk about something that you're not sure about.
Especially when you're treating CompuBox look likes 100% fact. If you scored the fight for Pacquiao then argue that, saying "uh he landed more punches, the TV me told me so" isn't an argument for someone winning a fight.
Especially when you're treating CompuBox look likes 100% fact. If you scored the fight for Pacquiao then argue that, saying "uh he landed more punches, the TV me told me so" isn't an argument for someone winning a fight.
