Illegal Immigrants Demand Citizenship

[Lamberto Quintero]

I'm sorry, but that was bafoonish, I'm going to have to accuse you of intentionally distorting what I said in plain English, unless you really are remedial.. No one says blacks are predisposed or "prone" to do anything, I only gave you an extremely brief over view of stats, I haven't discussed the sociological aspects and conditions, and/or institutional racism/history that may play a factor in these stats.

" are you saying you agree and accept that African Americans are more prone to be criminals than anyone else in this country"

^This is the most gross distortion of a quote that I've ever seen..

You said that Mexicans are predisposed and more prone to be criminals because Mexico is so poor, so I didn't put it past you to think the same about blacks. You can use the same exact logic you used to say why Mexicans are more prone, poverty. But, forgive my error...

Actually you did...

Hell no I didn't, they were already being compared when I came into this thread after I started it.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

@ Lamberto Quintero I'll give you a few examples on your campaign to discredit blacks and how I could of easily gotten offended and said a lot more than what I did, but restrained myself from engaging in any ignorant exchanges..

I was replying back using the same type of stereotyping you were using. And my statement about the Asian community was more of a "what the fuck do they have to do with anything" response.

 

[HERESY]

One word: Abortions.

I encourage you to take an intro to sociology class at your local jc/cc, and after you have done so, take two other soc classes. If a woman is married,has kids, and is ok until she gets divorced from her husband and he splits where do abortions come into play? Do you understand that poverty is caused by MANY things such as loosing a job, being burned out of a home and divorce?

You want people to get abortions, yet you don't want people to go through the legal system and become legal citizens.........

True, irrelevent to you.

No, it is simply an opinion I wish to not discuss at this time. His opinion is his, I have mine, you have yours.

Really? Is there a ten year waiting list to go out and work in the fields?? LMAO!

You are laughing but I should be laughing at the fact that you can only argue your position from an emotional perspective. If you READ the article and knew anything about social mobility you would understand why some blacks are competing for lower paying jobs.

They can, but it's a process that takes up to ten years.

Unless you have stats that show the average, I'll go on the 3 year figure that has been stated countless times.

That's way too long, so people risk their lives and get here illegally.

Who chose to do so?

Why should they be granted special privelages/immunity/impunity? Privelages, what ones? The privelage of picking everyone's food and washing everyone's dishes?

We can start with health care and education.

Immunity from what, taxes? They still spend some money here, but the cheap labor they provide means a lot more to the economy than their tax money would if they were getting paid regular wages.

Yet they send more billions to mexico every year. Immunity comes in the form of being allowed to work when they shouldn't be here.

And impunity, I don't think they should be punished because they aren't doing anything morally wrong, they are only working.

They are breaking the law. Regardless of how you feel, they are breaking the law.

You didn't exactly place blame directly on immigrants, but you said that 30-60% of the population would climb the poverty line if they were kicked out. Does that not place blame on immigrants, according to you?

Those below the poverty line WOULD rise. I posted an article explaining it. Go back and read it.

Well, if you don't believe that blacks have a better chance to make it in this country than a non-english speaking immigrant from Mexico, than I dont know what to tell you.

Again, read the other article I posted.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

I encourage you to take an intro to sociology class at your local jc/cc, and after you have done so, take two other soc classes. If a woman is married,has kids, and is ok until she gets divorced from her husband and he splits where do abortions come into play? Do you understand that poverty is caused by MANY things such as loosing a job, being burned out of a home and divorce?

You want people to get abortions, yet you don't want people to go through the legal system and become citizens legally....

The fact that many African-American males leave there families and wifes has more to do with their struggles than the fact that there are immigrants working low-skilled jobs. All I'm saying is if that lady with 10 kids you're talking about kept having kids even though she was broke, she should have gotten abortions. Don't have kids if you can't take care of them!

Mexicans will have like 2 or 3 families at once, but not many run out on their families, at least not at the same rate that blacks do.

You are laughing but I should be laughing at the fact that you can only argue your position from an emotional perspective. If you READ the article and knew anything about social mobility you would understand why some blacks are competing for lower paying jobs.

It's not emotional at all, I just don't see black people getting enthusastic about an opportunity to work in the fields and doing some of the other low-skilled jobs they are complaining are being taken from them.

Unless you have stats that show the average, I'll go on the 3 year figure that has been stated countless times.

I personally know people who have waited 8-9 years. It varies, but people ARE trying to get here legally. That's why there is such a wait. Even three years is a long time to wait if you can't support your family.

Who chose to do so?

Obviously them.

We can start with health care and education.

Would it make you feel better if these people came over here and were turned down at hospitals and their children were negated an education? How do blacks typically do in American education system anyways? Not that that has anything to do with immigrants' children being able to get an education, I'm simply saying it because a lot of children of immigrants do make something of themselves with the education that is provided, much like some blacks.

Yet they send more billions to mexico every year. Immunity comes in the form of being allowed to work when they shouldn't be here.

True, yet if the US didn't fuck up the economy by spending so much for wars, this wouldn't be that bad of a blow to the economy. I understand the negative impact sending money back home has on the economy, I just don't think that kicking people out is the correct solution.

They are breaking the law. Regardless of how you feel, they are breaking the law.

Which is why I said they aren't doing anything morally wrong. Do you think that illegal immigrants will go to hell because of their "rebelliousness"?

Those below the poverty line WOULD rise. I posted an article explaining it. Go back and read it.

I got it, blacks still have many advantages over immigrants when it comes to getting jobs though. If they really wanted to work, they could. If immigrants are making it with those shitty wages, black folks can do it too.

 

[HERESY]

I'm going to answer one thing, and I'm going to address the rest tommorow.

Which is why I said they aren't doing anything morally wrong. Do you think that illegal immigrants will go to hell because of their "rebelliousness"?

Morality is subjective. And no, I do not believe they will go to hell because of their rebelliousness. "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" are HUMAN and they have the right to make a better life for themselves and their children. No one should deprive ANY man of LIFE, but the problem stems from WHERE that man CHOOSES to live his life, and if you really look at it, no one is depriving them. These our teh laws, go through the system, be patient and grind it out.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

I'm going to answer one thing, and I'm going to address the rest tommorow.



Morality is subjective. And no, I do not believe they will go to hell because of their rebelliousness. "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" are HUMAN and they have the right to make a better life for themselves and their children. No one should deprive ANY man of LIFE, but the problem stems from WHERE that man CHOOSES to live his life, and if you really look at it, no one is depriving them. These our teh laws, go through the system, be patient and grind it out.

Yes morality is subjective, and you and I see things the same with what you just wrote. The problem is, I don't think these people have the luxury to be patient and grind it out, although I honestly wish they would. It's way too dangerous to get over here the way some do. As much as I understand you and Parkboyz are correct about a lot of things you guys say, I can't simply accept the fact that the right thing to do is kick them out. There needs to be a more positive solution to this problem.

PS. We've had this argument many times before, and it never seems to end, partly due to my pride I admit. But like I said, I can't accept that some want to just "throw" these people back to Mexico and that's that.

Put yourself in my situation, would you still view this issue the same way? Even though it's YOUR people who would be getting deported?

 

[ParkBoyz]

I was replying back using the same type of stereotyping you were using. And my statement about the Asian community was more of a "what the fuck do they have to do with anything" response.

Again, like I said, that's ignorant and childish, I never stereotyped anyone, neither did I pull any race card, we were discussing illegals, not Mexican citizens, or Chicanos! Your antics were disgusting, which is why I pointed out what I did in defense of my kin. You can't undermine the entire history of a people (pre-slavery or post-slavery) in order for you to some how try and exalt or justify the position of illegal Aliens in America, you can't compare the two, therefore your rhetoric has been rendered ineffective.. You gave me the usual uninformed reactionary responses.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

Again, like I said, that's ignorant and childish, I never stereotyped anyone, neither did I pull any race card, we were discussing illegals, not Mexican citizens, or Chicanos! Your antics were disgusting, which is why I pointed out what I pointed out what I did in defense of my kin. You can't undermine the entire history of a people (pre-slavery or post-slavery) in order for you to some how try and exalt or justify the position of illegal Aliens in America, you can't compare the two, therefore your rhetoric has been rendered ineffective.. You gave me the usual uninformed reactionary responses.

I wasn't trying to compare the two, they were already being compared when I came into this thread, like I already said. And you ARE stereotyping when you say that illegals only steal and sell crack, just because it's not race doesn't take away the fact that you're stereotyping. The same reason you defend your kin is why I continue to defend mine.

 

[ParkBoyz]

I wasn't trying to compare the two, they were already being compared when I came into this thread, like I already said. And you ARE stereotyping when you say that illegals only steal and sell crack, just because it's not race doesn't take away the fact that you're stereotyping. The same reason you defend your kin is why I continue to defend mine.

You're over generalizing the aspects of the situation based on one comment, one person before made a comparison, does that make it okay for you? You can't be past 20 using that as justification.. The comparing game is so childish, especially since it had nothing to do with the subject at hand or our particular conversation.. Stereotyping is extremely easy and doesn't make for a good point, I only stereotyped in efforts to mock you..

Example:

I guarantee there are at least a hundred times more black people selling crack than illegal Mexicans!

your stereotyping is endless but can go both ways, I can guarantee you that there are 100 times more illegal Mexican gang bangers, drunks, meth heads, leechers, and rapists, and over populated loiterers than blacks.

^See how dumb of a game that is, you can throw dirt on anybody that way, by simply making unsubstantiated claims, some of which may be true, but nonetheless are wide-spread and treated as gospel among the uninformed layman with out any support or explanation..

 

[|GOD|||ZILLA|]

are their enough jobs for everybody?.. is this a work issue?.. or a criminal issue?

 

[ParkBoyz]

is this a work issue?.. or a criminal issue?

A,B,C, and D, all of the above..

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

You're over generalizing the aspects of the situation based on one comment, one person before made a comparison, does that make it okay for you? You can't be past 20 using that as justification.. The comparing game is so childish, especially since it had nothing to do with the subject at hand or our particular conversation.. Stereotyping is extremely easy and doesn't make for a good point, I only stereotyped in efforts to mock you..

I am exactly 20 (as you can very easily find out when you click on my name and check out my profile) and I'm not using anyone's posts to justify the things I said.

A lot do, but a lot are also hardened criminals, "Mexico" is not a breeding ground for divine people, please! If it's as poor as you portray it, it should be expected that they breed criminals

This quote right here was said before I ever mentioned anything stereotypical about african americans, and if you don't see why I got offended when you made this statement, I can't comment any further. No, this comment you made doesn't justify some of the things I said regarding Asians and Blacks, but I want you to know it was you who crossed the line first and not me.

^See how dumb of a game that is, you can throw dirt on anybody that way, by simply making unsubstantiated claims, some of which may be true, but nonetheless are wide-spread and treated as gospel among the uninformed layman with out any support or explanation..

It is a dumb game, but you're as guilty as anyone else of playing it, as am I...

 

[|GOD|||ZILLA|]

if not more so.

 

[JLMACN]

lamberto....you will never win a arguement against HERESY and PARK BOYS..

just my 2 cents...

but keep trying if you please.

5000

 

[kayvee]

^ which is why i don't bother.

~k.

 

[Lamberto Quintero]

lamberto....you will never win a arguement against HERESY and PARK BOYS..

just my 2 cents...

but keep trying if you please.

5000

I know this, I was just making sure that my side was well-represented in this discussion...

 

[JLMACN]

I feel you homeboy.


5000

 

[Cmoke]

As far as i can see, theres really no arguement for the illegal immagrant side. These people have entered our country illegally and should be sought out and removed. Its really not hard to become a legal citizen in this country if you REALLY want to do it. They will not be allowed to become legal citizens and everyone knows this. What i dont understand is how these people who represent them (immagrants) think they are owed some kind of pass....Why would we owe you something after you enter this country illegally? What makes you think that after you sneak into our country and take our jobs, cost us money, and milk our economy of its helpfull resources, that we should just let you become citizens? Get real.

 

[HERESY]

I'm withdrawing from this thread, because I don't think it should be a battle of insults or who is right or who is wrong. IMHO, an argument is not won when you disprove someone or when you get someone to agree with your perspective. An argument is won when both parties have learned from each other and can walk away with a mutual understanding and respect for one another.

 

[|GOD|||ZILLA|]

accordin' to this.. cali belongs to them.