you should pay attention more. i think people say white people are responsible for some of the things that have happened in our history, but hardly ever does anyone say ALL WHITES. so what do you expect, us to name every white person? If you don't feel responsible for what your ancestors did, then fine. Don't take offense to it. We're not speaking on every single white person. We are speaking on white people in general because I don't think a list of names of all the biggots in history have been put togther yet. Why don't you make a list of all these people and we'll refer to your list instead of WHITE PEOPLE.
DONT HATE ME CUZ IM WHITE!!!
- Thread starter m.w.merlino
- Start date
Beep. Wrong. The Pan-African slave trade occured after the Pan-Arabic slave trade. There were many dealings between Arab slave traders and African kings before any European stepped foot on Africa. Anyone who says otherwise is engaged in revisionism.
I would never tell Black people to "shut up and get over it" but there comes a time when every last drop, every last dollar, resource, etc., will be drained out of the slavery bucket. There's only so far someone can get when they focus on what did happen instead of what can or will happen.
In identifying with slavery, instead of some positive view or future goal, black people continue a cycle of nonproduction. It's a cycle.
I identify as a victim, therefore I am entitled. As an entitled person, I deserve retribution. Even with getting, or not getting retribution, I am still disposessed. In being disposessed, I am a victim.
The time is approaching when everyone will know and understand the black situation (if they don't already), and integration and understanding of white people will go farther for the black race than simply creating distance and animosity.
I would never tell Black people to "shut up and get over it" but there comes a time when every last drop, every last dollar, resource, etc., will be drained out of the slavery bucket. There's only so far someone can get when they focus on what did happen instead of what can or will happen.
In identifying with slavery, instead of some positive view or future goal, black people continue a cycle of nonproduction. It's a cycle.
I identify as a victim, therefore I am entitled. As an entitled person, I deserve retribution. Even with getting, or not getting retribution, I am still disposessed. In being disposessed, I am a victim.
The time is approaching when everyone will know and understand the black situation (if they don't already), and integration and understanding of white people will go farther for the black race than simply creating distance and animosity.
As far as where African slavery started, your right. Arabs raided tribes and took slaves way before European interests did. But out of all the history Ive ever read I never heard of the trade of slaves between Arabs and African kings for money or tangible goods. And I know for a fact that the number of slaves taken by arabs was no where near the 12 million taken over the Atlantic ocean. Also, the taking of slaves by the arabs didnt involve nearly as much money or trade, if any at all. The main profits were introduced by the european slave trade enticing tribal leaders with wealth and making it lucrative for african leaders to trade thier people away. Capitalists didnt exist in Africa until europeans developed them.
Also, I think that your are drawing a false conclusion, like many other white folks do, that black people in general dwell on slavery as the main source of all of thier problems in this society. There are real injustices that exist in this society amoung all minorities. So do they blame slavery too? Slavery will never be forgotten, but I dont think black people use it as a sole reason for the injustices that they face on a daily basis. If you think that, then you are truly ignorant. If you don't think that, then just disregard what I said, but it seems that way in your post.
Also, I think that your are drawing a false conclusion, like many other white folks do, that black people in general dwell on slavery as the main source of all of thier problems in this society. There are real injustices that exist in this society amoung all minorities. So do they blame slavery too? Slavery will never be forgotten, but I dont think black people use it as a sole reason for the injustices that they face on a daily basis. If you think that, then you are truly ignorant. If you don't think that, then just disregard what I said, but it seems that way in your post.
Then what was the purpose of the trade? Goodwill? Christmas presents?
Agreed, the Pan-African slave trade dwarfs the exchange of Arabic and African societies.
The acquisition of wealth/power in Africa has always existed among tribes, and even predates the prevalence and existence of African kings. If not in the form of coin, as with the Europeans, in the form of slaves, land, cattle, women, etc,. Some say the Africans also invented the tattoo to brand slaves. The Euros may have introduced a capitalist system, but how is that much worse than the "kill everyone and take everything they had, fuck their wives", etc. system?
Would you say the main black consensus is that problems in the community exist because of Black activity, practices, etc? I've never heard that view, at least in a loud and often supported voice.
I should clarify: when I referred to it as "the slavery issue", the real intent was to encapsulate white racism, white injustice, slavery, etc., all in one. Perhaps that wasn't the best way to term it.
In other words, the black situation, which is born largely of racism and injustice, which refers back to the actions of White america. This is often the reason given for the actions, for example, of black convicts, ireesponsible parents, etc.
In no way am I saying that White people have nothing to do with the Black situation. But instead of saying that 99 percent of the problem is white peoples to fix, and Black people should just sit back and let the healing commence.There are variables disposessed Black Americans can change. The solution to community problems can not come solely based on activism and raising awareness of the black situation, etc.
Agreed, the Pan-African slave trade dwarfs the exchange of Arabic and African societies.
The acquisition of wealth/power in Africa has always existed among tribes, and even predates the prevalence and existence of African kings. If not in the form of coin, as with the Europeans, in the form of slaves, land, cattle, women, etc,. Some say the Africans also invented the tattoo to brand slaves. The Euros may have introduced a capitalist system, but how is that much worse than the "kill everyone and take everything they had, fuck their wives", etc. system?
Would you say the main black consensus is that problems in the community exist because of Black activity, practices, etc? I've never heard that view, at least in a loud and often supported voice.
I should clarify: when I referred to it as "the slavery issue", the real intent was to encapsulate white racism, white injustice, slavery, etc., all in one. Perhaps that wasn't the best way to term it.
In other words, the black situation, which is born largely of racism and injustice, which refers back to the actions of White america. This is often the reason given for the actions, for example, of black convicts, ireesponsible parents, etc.
In no way am I saying that White people have nothing to do with the Black situation. But instead of saying that 99 percent of the problem is white peoples to fix, and Black people should just sit back and let the healing commence.There are variables disposessed Black Americans can change. The solution to community problems can not come solely based on activism and raising awareness of the black situation, etc.
ALREADY DEAD,
LET ME ADDRESS SOMETHIN' YOU STRESSED, "Would you say the main black consensus is that problems in the community exist because of Black activity, practices, etc? I've never heard that view, at least in a loud and often supported voice."
HERESY ADDRESSED THOSE TIME AND AgAIN. YOU SLEPT ON THE MAN AND HIS MESSAgE. BUT PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE BLAK COMMUNITY SELDOMLY SPEAK ON IT CAUSE EITYHA THEY AIN'T REALLY CONCERNED WITH IT, IT WOULD SEEM RACIST TO PUT IT IN BLAK FOLKS FACE IF YOU AIN'T BLAK, THEY AIN'T THAT INFORMED ON IT, OR THEY AIN'T BLAK. BLAK FOLK(THE ONES THAT ARE CONCERNED WITH IT) SPEAK UP ON IT ALL THE TIME.
LET ME ADDRESS SOMETHIN' YOU STRESSED, "Would you say the main black consensus is that problems in the community exist because of Black activity, practices, etc? I've never heard that view, at least in a loud and often supported voice."
HERESY ADDRESSED THOSE TIME AND AgAIN. YOU SLEPT ON THE MAN AND HIS MESSAgE. BUT PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE BLAK COMMUNITY SELDOMLY SPEAK ON IT CAUSE EITYHA THEY AIN'T REALLY CONCERNED WITH IT, IT WOULD SEEM RACIST TO PUT IT IN BLAK FOLKS FACE IF YOU AIN'T BLAK, THEY AIN'T THAT INFORMED ON IT, OR THEY AIN'T BLAK. BLAK FOLK(THE ONES THAT ARE CONCERNED WITH IT) SPEAK UP ON IT ALL THE TIME.
QUOTE]Originally posted by already dead.
1. Then what was the purpose of the trade? Goodwill? Christmas presents?
2. The acquisition of wealth/power in Africa has always existed among tribes, and even predates the prevalence and existence of African kings. If not in the form of coin, as with the Europeans, in the form of slaves, land, cattle, women, etc,. Some say the Africans also invented the tattoo to brand slaves. The Euros may have introduced a capitalist system, but how is that much worse than the "kill everyone and take everything they had, fuck their wives", etc. system?[
3. Would you say the main black consensus is that problems in the community exist because of Black activity, practices, etc? I've never heard that view, at least in a loud and often supported voice.
4. But instead of saying that 99 percent of the problem is white peoples to fix, and Black people should just sit back and let the healing commence.There are variables disposessed Black Americans can change. The solution to community problems can not come solely based on activism and raising awareness of the black situation, etc. [/QUOTE]
1. Im saying that they didnt trade slaves, they just took people. Ive never read of any interaction between arabs and african kings. I have read before where arabs would storm into the land and just take groups of people for slaves.
And whenever white people talk about slavery, they always bring up "africans traded thier own people" as to make it seem like they weren't the only culprits. While this is true, the amount of slaves TAKEN in european slave hoarding was WAY MORE than the amount of slaves traded by africans.
2. I dont understand what you mean by "kill everyone and take everything they had, fuck thier wives." Are you speaking about the tribes themselves, the Arabs???
The way tribal systems work as far as placing value on tangible goods is completly different from the establishment of european monies. There is a system and an order within the tribes that establishes who is who. It never was about the person with the most cattle, or the person with the most land. It was about the tribe with the most cattle, or the tribe with the most land. It was group efforts, but the introduction of european monies individualized shit and made brother turn against brother... the way it did for native americans, and the way it is still doing among minorities now.
3. You, like a lot of other white folks, tend to think that minorities issues have to do with the just the groups themselves not being able to act "right" or feeling victimized by slavery. Its more than that. Its the groups in this society, the enviroment, the poverty, the education, the prejudice, the media, the employment... all of this white privlaged world affects trains of thoughts causing certian behaviors among underprivliaged people. I cant speak for black people persoannly, but I bet that they would agree that minorities do have to start bettering themselves if they want to be taken seriously, cause god knows it takes twice as much effort to succeed in a white mans world if your a person of color. Until then, we aint taken seriously...and still wont be.
4. No one ever said it was soley up to white people to fix. But yall do run the country, and you guys do own most of the buisnesses and money, and yall do have majority of the voters, and yall do have a white president. And there is a certian amount of responsibility I feel that has to be taken on the part of white people to open thier ears and listen resonably to some of our complaints... otherwise we're insignifigant in a country where everyone is supposed to be equal
1. Then what was the purpose of the trade? Goodwill? Christmas presents?
2. The acquisition of wealth/power in Africa has always existed among tribes, and even predates the prevalence and existence of African kings. If not in the form of coin, as with the Europeans, in the form of slaves, land, cattle, women, etc,. Some say the Africans also invented the tattoo to brand slaves. The Euros may have introduced a capitalist system, but how is that much worse than the "kill everyone and take everything they had, fuck their wives", etc. system?[
3. Would you say the main black consensus is that problems in the community exist because of Black activity, practices, etc? I've never heard that view, at least in a loud and often supported voice.
4. But instead of saying that 99 percent of the problem is white peoples to fix, and Black people should just sit back and let the healing commence.There are variables disposessed Black Americans can change. The solution to community problems can not come solely based on activism and raising awareness of the black situation, etc. [/QUOTE]
1. Im saying that they didnt trade slaves, they just took people. Ive never read of any interaction between arabs and african kings. I have read before where arabs would storm into the land and just take groups of people for slaves.
And whenever white people talk about slavery, they always bring up "africans traded thier own people" as to make it seem like they weren't the only culprits. While this is true, the amount of slaves TAKEN in european slave hoarding was WAY MORE than the amount of slaves traded by africans.
2. I dont understand what you mean by "kill everyone and take everything they had, fuck thier wives." Are you speaking about the tribes themselves, the Arabs???
The way tribal systems work as far as placing value on tangible goods is completly different from the establishment of european monies. There is a system and an order within the tribes that establishes who is who. It never was about the person with the most cattle, or the person with the most land. It was about the tribe with the most cattle, or the tribe with the most land. It was group efforts, but the introduction of european monies individualized shit and made brother turn against brother... the way it did for native americans, and the way it is still doing among minorities now.
3. You, like a lot of other white folks, tend to think that minorities issues have to do with the just the groups themselves not being able to act "right" or feeling victimized by slavery. Its more than that. Its the groups in this society, the enviroment, the poverty, the education, the prejudice, the media, the employment... all of this white privlaged world affects trains of thoughts causing certian behaviors among underprivliaged people. I cant speak for black people persoannly, but I bet that they would agree that minorities do have to start bettering themselves if they want to be taken seriously, cause god knows it takes twice as much effort to succeed in a white mans world if your a person of color. Until then, we aint taken seriously...and still wont be.
4. No one ever said it was soley up to white people to fix. But yall do run the country, and you guys do own most of the buisnesses and money, and yall do have majority of the voters, and yall do have a white president. And there is a certian amount of responsibility I feel that has to be taken on the part of white people to open thier ears and listen resonably to some of our complaints... otherwise we're insignifigant in a country where everyone is supposed to be equal
I always felt Heresy was on point. I mean see blood I haven't been around that long to get everything on here worth reading.
My opinions on what is said in the black community is somewhat of an outside view no matter how many black folks I know. What i base my statements on is 1. the politically inclined black people I've spoken to, 2. C Span, KQED, televised community action events, etc. 3. what i have read in print.
How often are HERESY's views spoken in the black community when the situation is discussed? I'd like to know about that...
My opinions on what is said in the black community is somewhat of an outside view no matter how many black folks I know. What i base my statements on is 1. the politically inclined black people I've spoken to, 2. C Span, KQED, televised community action events, etc. 3. what i have read in print.
How often are HERESY's views spoken in the black community when the situation is discussed? I'd like to know about that...
Damn, I wish we were face to face because Im really getting tired of all this typing.
Just to paraphrase, you state that there are certian personnal initiatives that black people can take, and calling attention to this will do more for black people, ...etc.
I just want to know... how do white people know what is right for black people? How does one who has never expierienced the struggle know what is best for those who have? How does one who lives with "white privilage" know what is best for the underprivlaged?
Thats all for now, this typing is killing me, lol.
Just to paraphrase, you state that there are certian personnal initiatives that black people can take, and calling attention to this will do more for black people, ...etc.
I just want to know... how do white people know what is right for black people? How does one who has never expierienced the struggle know what is best for those who have? How does one who lives with "white privilage" know what is best for the underprivlaged?
Thats all for now, this typing is killing me, lol.
That's real...way too much typing.
My answer is this: regardless of the fact that I'm not in the community, common sense can apply to many situations. Black people are often economically disadvantaged, therefore spendin needed money on Southpole, Akademiks, and Reeboks instead of an AA degree is bad. Common sense.
Having more children than you can support has a negative influence. Common Sense.
Also, why couldn't a white person say what is good for Black america? Don't companies hire outside consultants for advice?
Someone not personally connected to a situation can often advise better, though those in the thick may also offer a solution.
One thing I believe is behind the mentality of telling white people they can't propose a solution is seeng Black people as fundamentally innocent and white people as guilty. e.g. "What would your cracka ass know about the situation?"
Nothing more than the sum of my reasoning, and that's all any of us have. But solutions often come from new perspectives. Regardless if you agree with me or not, at least in expressing my views you can have something else to consider. End.
My answer is this: regardless of the fact that I'm not in the community, common sense can apply to many situations. Black people are often economically disadvantaged, therefore spendin needed money on Southpole, Akademiks, and Reeboks instead of an AA degree is bad. Common sense.
Having more children than you can support has a negative influence. Common Sense.
Also, why couldn't a white person say what is good for Black america? Don't companies hire outside consultants for advice?
Someone not personally connected to a situation can often advise better, though those in the thick may also offer a solution.
One thing I believe is behind the mentality of telling white people they can't propose a solution is seeng Black people as fundamentally innocent and white people as guilty. e.g. "What would your cracka ass know about the situation?"
Nothing more than the sum of my reasoning, and that's all any of us have. But solutions often come from new perspectives. Regardless if you agree with me or not, at least in expressing my views you can have something else to consider. End.
Many Black women are...look at birth rates...if you can't handle yourself how you gonna pay for your whole family? And that leads to poverty, and the continuing cycle.
And I'm not sayin that like "oh Black folks can't handle their shit they helpless and this and that". Im just sayin if your financial situation does not leave you equipped to handle children, then having more children is not the answer.
I'm not worried about "flooding the community", you say that shit like I'm scared of Black people. LOL. "Oh no they're everywhere" LMAO. My girl is black, some of my best friends as well, I could give a fuck if every Black family has 20 kids if they can support them all, but oftentimes they can't.
And I'm not sayin that like "oh Black folks can't handle their shit they helpless and this and that". Im just sayin if your financial situation does not leave you equipped to handle children, then having more children is not the answer.
I'm not worried about "flooding the community", you say that shit like I'm scared of Black people. LOL. "Oh no they're everywhere" LMAO. My girl is black, some of my best friends as well, I could give a fuck if every Black family has 20 kids if they can support them all, but oftentimes they can't.
If 20 out of 2000 welfare mothers are white, but
5 out of 50 welfare mothers are black,
as far as raw numbers, yes, most welfare mothers are white. In terms of pecentages a larger number of welfare mothers are black, and even if they weren't the black birth rate is disproportionate. Black families have more kids on average than any other race, and they are currently in the worst financial situation.
I'm not even saying all black families/mothers with too many kids go on welfare. Regardless of that, having 2 or 3 kids instead of 1 is a preventable financial strain. Oftentimes the amount of children black families have exceed the amount needed for comfortable living/saving money/investing/having some financial options, etc.
5 out of 50 welfare mothers are black,
as far as raw numbers, yes, most welfare mothers are white. In terms of pecentages a larger number of welfare mothers are black, and even if they weren't the black birth rate is disproportionate. Black families have more kids on average than any other race, and they are currently in the worst financial situation.
I'm not even saying all black families/mothers with too many kids go on welfare. Regardless of that, having 2 or 3 kids instead of 1 is a preventable financial strain. Oftentimes the amount of children black families have exceed the amount needed for comfortable living/saving money/investing/having some financial options, etc.