SOLO said:
You're the one who came up with hypotheses about my social influences, education, and intelligence.
I never made statements regarding your capabilities. However, I did attempt to place some of your statements in a context of 1. where you come from, 2. what you have previously said, and 3. which topics you seem to gravitate towards, all good indicators of one's general stance on a subject.
Regarding your second question above, no, I don't think you need to "know me" in order for us to have a discussion about white rap fans, but if you want to conjecture about how I am as a person, then...
Most of my "characterization" was intended to point out a theme, I may have gone off tangent in some places, however when viewed as a whole you can see where I'm going. Basically, my point was that many of your influences and views on white culture might be part of a circular pattern in which white is generally regarded as "lame, wrong, stupid, intrinsically racist", and that theme itself influences and reinforces your ideas. The Chicken hatches the egg which hatches a chicken which hatches an egg.
Black, red, yellow, and brown are socially constructed racial groups, but none exist as ideologies of supremacy.
This is true at this current moment, however the face of racial identity in America is continuously changing, and we may soon see a time in which these racial constructs adopt a position of supremacy. Traces of it are already in current thought. All that is needed to change "Brown and Proud" into "Brown and better than everybody else" or "black and Proud" etc. are a few small-minded people. Look at Mecha, or the Black Muslims, groups which already eschew these beliefs, and which are currently becoming more and more mainstream.
I think we are reaching an impasse because we disagree about the nature of white supremacy. You seem to think that it is represented by the more overt signs of racism (like saying the N-word) and that white rap fans' interest in rap and black culture shows that they do not harbor white supremacy. I think that white supremacy is ingrained much deeper than that, and that most white rap fans maintain their interest in rap, a superficial interest in black culture, and their internalized white supremacy all at the same time.
I absolutely believe that overt signs of racism are necessary to categorize one as a white supremacist. Ignorance or inexperience can be changed through education and experience. There is a difference between wiggers from the burbs and wiggers from the actual hood, the main one being a stronger connection to the street mentality, a better understanding of minorities and minority cultures, and less of a desire to overdo and flaunt their "hip-hop"ness. Do these wiggers hold white supremacist views? Hardly. Unless you want to believe all white people are inherently white supremacist, and where do we go from there? Racial cleansing of anything above a mediterranean tan?
And what is the difference between them and suburbs wiggers? Experience. Even if the miseducation and closet racist views
characterize wiggers, they are much less white supremacist than a redneck out in the boondocks with a shaved head and a confederate flag on his front porch. Those are people who will actively resist racial integration and education...those are real white supremacists. They have much smaller chances of mental progression than someone whose idea of the hood comes from NWA cds.
I believe most white supremacy has been relegated to the subconscious. It's not limited to so-called "whites" either. Many people of every shade of the spectrum buy into it (internalize it).
Economically and Power-wise, white people stand next to the doors and hold the keys. it's natural for someone without the power to see past "the room" to see those higher up as superior.
Backwater towns like New York City?
The guy from New York city said his little brothers didn't listen to rap, not exactly a huge sign of KKK ideology, if anything at all, and even if they did find dumb quotes from New York City wiggers, they most likely also suffered from lack of exposure. Once again most or all of the estreme examples of miseducation in the article are expressed by suburbanites, general dorks who ain't got no friends anyways, and folks off some other shit.
Regardless, they are white rap fans and as rap has gained popularity there are probably more of them across the country than in '91-or-something when Upski wrote the article. If you don't think their views are socially significant, then who are we talking about here?
Their views are socially significant, however for the most part we are talking about sheltered, unexposed suburban wiggers, and even if they come from the big city, they are most likely uninitiated or unaccepted in the black community based on the fact most are squares known for sayin dumb shit and acting stupid. However, is a wigger from the projects just as likely to hold misinformed or racist views about black people as some of the people quoted in the article? Would you say yes, I don't know, however from personal experience and logic I would say no.
One of the views represented in that article was that of the guy *Chris*. His views on blacks in the US seem to coincide with yours. What do you think?
"I think everyone should just be equal, but the blacks are trying to be better than everyone else. They just don't have it bad in this country. They just say gimme gimme gimme."
Haha. If I felt that way I wouldnt be posting here. I am for racial reperations, affirmative action, etc. However I believe at the same time that continuously calling attention to the black situation and identifying with slavery will serve less of a purpose to black america than coming up with a solid, expressed goal, perhaps a suitable leader to put forth the cause (Sharpton, Jackson insufficient) and expressing a futuristic or even present-day positive vision of african-americans along with concrete objectives and ideas for implementation. Yes, there still needs to be attention drawn to the disparity in our penal system, racial profiling in law enforcement, and the disparate economic conditions, however a plan of action that entails what and how "reperation" funds from white america, or some sort of damages payout system were to be used for would make more sense than a simple re-stating of history.
You may argue that the white rap fans profiled in the article represent miseducated and nonexposed cases. But they are white rap fans, and even if they are ignorant they do not take radical positions vis-a-vis blackness. Their views on blacks uniformly uphold the racial status quo, which is white supremacy.
I suppose I will concede somewhat. The busters interviewed in Bomb the Suburbs and that article do represent subconscious white supremacy, however there is a large difference between active and passive racism, as well as a large difference between the views of a non-urbanized white person who is devoid of multicultural exposure and someone from say, the heart of San Francisco. There will always be ignorant-ass people in this world, however equating all wiggers to those examples is tantamount to saying all young black males think selling crack is the only way to financially succeed.
And even if there are more ignorant, miseducated wiggers out there than sensible ones, true knowledge always triumphs. Phonies, vanilla ice wiggas, and the like will eventually realize their stupidity. Something that would hasten this would be hip-hop either dying down in popularity, its mainstream changing into a more conscious movement (not just the underground).
