Chavez tells UN Bush is 'devil'; UN 'worthless'

[TROLL]

In reference to the people that were saying good things about chavez, i was telling them to go to his country, im sorry if you took it literally...dont really go to venezuela, sorry...lol...just check the facts on the net from your comfortable computer chair about how venezuela is...

and on the same token u can demonize from your comfortable chair, a region u havent been too either??

No leader is going to have the perfect foreign policy, that is why we have to stand by our leaders, and elect someone into office we think will do a good job...

how does standing by a leader who starts illegal wars help our foreign policy?

we elected bush... sorry if you think it was rigged. And, i guess you didnt read your own source, but the article about the 2000 election, is just the author saying that that group opposed bush from day 1, not that he stole the 2000 election, but it does have some 2004 links on that page though

the 2004 links are why i posted it..

And, hahahahahahaa, did you even read this one?

Electronic Voting: The Stolen Election of 2004::
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI411B.html
HAHAHAHA, how is that even credible?????? haha, i did get a couple laughs from it though, thank you.

i like how u can laugh at something but arent bold enough to point out what.. so... do me a favor.. prove these statements are wrong...

Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes. In the United States, about 3 percent of votes cast are voided—known as “spoilage” in election jargon—because the ballots cast are inconclusive. Drawing on what happened in Florida and studies of elections past, Palast argues that if Ohio’s discarded ballots were counted, Kerry would have won the state. Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of 247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes plus the 155,000 provisional ballots.

Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. At 1:05 a.m. Wednesday morning, CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. The exit polls were later combined with—and therefore contaminated by—the tabulated results, ultimately becoming a mirror of the apparent actual vote. [To read about the skewing of exit polls to conform to official results, click here .] Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.

Whose Votes Are Discarded?

And not all votes spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African-American and minority precincts.

We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks.

And the second article you put up....

There is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale. … There is also no way to be sure that the nightmare scenario of electronic voting critics did not occur: votes surreptitiously shifted from one candidate to another inside the machines, by secret software. It’s important to make it clear that there is no evidence such a thing happened, but there will be concern and conspiracy theories until all software used in elections is made public.

check these out
vvvv

Affidavit from a Board of elections official exposing how Private companies are given the kind of access needed to fix USA elections::
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/brockbealohelecltr121504.pdf

Evidence of Electoral Fraud in the 2004 U.S. Presidential Election: A Reading List::
http://opednews.com/keefer_111504_r...ce of Fraud in the 2004 Presidential Election

and a movie...

leading researchers, journalists and activists present massive evidence of the electoral crisis::
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-732315032094935580&q=voter+fraud&hl=en

Now, onto the nazi comment... Just using a name that is synonymous with evil and bad, and placing it onto the president of the US, just to make him seem worse... well, you seem to be in the same department as Chavez... havez calls Bush "Devil" and you call Bush "Nazi", lets find out how many other names we can call him...

I call bush a nazi because

A) his grandfather helped create his current wealth by being hitlers banker
B) He used 9/11 like hitler used the reichstag fire
C) He supports facism

Not to mention Chavez's credibility, but he is one to talk, check out his bio is you dont believe me... but since you do research, you probably know huh?

yup.. but is that to say he isnt entilted to his opinion? no.. if u wanted to get techinical...

tower of babel=United nations..

and if u knew what the bible said it will show u how 'god' precieves a one world government.. a "new world order" so.. the "devil" label does fit..

 

[scraper707]

I did not demonize venezuela at all. Venezuela may be a great place, i do not know. Yet, from the same standpoint as you, unless you have traveled to all of these regions and are more knowing than what i think you are(not an insult, just saying that everyone doesnt know everything, and thats counts for me as well), our resources seem to be what we can read from the net, or news or what have you. Therefore, from that standpoint, venezuela is not in a very favorable state, at least from my point of view, looking at statisitics and readings about the country and its leaders and history and present situation.

Now onto your statements- you are not proving anything right by posting these statements.
"Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes" He won, there you have it. I am fond of that part.

I'll read the article you proposed later and get back to you on those....

And the nazi comments again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Sheldon_Bush
That is the biography on Bush's grandfather, and the information in it, by no means, could point out Prescott Bush as a nazi.

"B) He used 9/11 like hitler used the reichstag fire"
Come on, are you serious? That comparison is very far fetched and generalized. I bet you could find even more examples of 9/11 compared to another event in history. You must have better reasoning than this.

Fascism- a radical political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.

Yes, Bush opposes Communism as does many other world leaders. Yes he supports Corporatism, also, as many other countries do. Authoritarianism-Although we the US are seen by many as the world police, so therefore, autoritarianism would fit, but not confined to bush, but to our country and our government. Nationalism, a very popular trend throughout the world, since most countries in the world support nationalism. Anti-anarchism, easy, yes, he supports this, once again, most countries have a government right? I forgot militarism, which is tricky, because, yes he is using the military, yet, militarism is the push of the military onto private aspects of life, which is not seen enough for him to be called militaristic. Anti-liberalism, well, ill give you a few points here, yes he is an anti-liberalist.

But going thru all that, our government is very fascist then, not only bush, and also, many governents of the world are fascist, whether they come out and say it or not. Fascism is something that we all have to live with. So when you say he supports fascism, dont forget to mention that the world supports fascism within each country, their own fascism, so be it. If you go thru the list of fascist traits, you will see it throughout the world, sorry...


Finally, sure chavez is entitles to his opinion. There, technically speaking i guess. But is that at all to do with the point about his credibility? No. The UN could have everyone go to the podium and call each other names, but does everyone do that? No, It is too easy to do that and some people know how to act in respect to other's personal character when dealing with the entire world.
In the end, Chavez is only hurting himslef and his country.

And by the way, if i knew what the bible said...
I dont believe in god as the way you do. I believe there is something out there, whether it be God, or something more powerful than ourselves. I dont think religion has anything to do with this, other chavez trying to add "devilish" to Bush's characature.

 

[TROLL]

I did not demonize venezuela at all. Venezuela may be a great place, i do not know. Yet, from the same standpoint as you, unless you have traveled to all of these regions and are more knowing than what i think you are(not an insult, just saying that everyone doesnt know everything, and thats counts for me as well), our resources seem to be what we can read from the net, or news or what have you. Therefore, from that standpoint, venezuela is not in a very favorable state, at least from my point of view, looking at statisitics and readings about the country and its leaders and history and present situation.

I understand where your coming from but im responding to your point of telling someone else to "go see for themselves".. as many articles and facts u can pull about how venazulea is in a negative sense theres always articles and facts to counter them..

Now onto your statements- you are not proving anything right by posting these statements.
"Bush won Ohio by 136,483 votes" He won, there you have it. I am fond of that part.

Oh but why stop reading there??... the only statement u decided to pay attention to was said to use as a contrast to how many votes were discarded...

In the United States, about 3 percent of votes cast are voided—known as “spoilage” in election jargon—because the ballots cast are inconclusive. Drawing on what happened in Florida and studies of elections past, Palast argues that if Ohio’s discarded ballots were counted, Kerry would have won the state. Today, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports there are a total of 247,672 votes not counted in Ohio, if you add the 92,672 discarded votes plus the 155,000 provisional ballots.

so Whose Votes Are Discarded u ask?

And not all votes spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African-American and minority precincts.

:dead:

I'll read the article you proposed later and get back to you on those....

u should have just waited until u did read them to respond...

And the nazi comments again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Sheldon_Bush
That is the biography on Bush's grandfather, and the information in it, by no means, could point out Prescott Bush as a nazi.

peep....
vvvv
"The Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich."::
http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/bush_nazi.html

Bush Family Funded Adolf Hitler::
http://www.rense.com/general40/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm

Documents: Bush's Grandfather Directed Bank Tied to Man Who Funded Hitler::
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

BUSH-NAZI LINK CONFIRMED::
http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/

Bush grandfather helped Hitler in rise to power::
http://homepage.mac.com/jimjohnson/iblog/C641750761/E1249704665/index.html

....so basically now, this part of your arguement your left to make me believe that "ok..so he helped fund the third reich and they got wealthy from adolf.. but he's NOT a nazi" pffffff... you ever hear the saying, if it walks like a duck...

"B) He used 9/11 like hitler used the reichstag fire"
Come on, are you serious? That comparison is very far fetched and generalized. I bet you could find even more examples of 9/11 compared to another event in history. You must have better reasoning than this.

ok lets see... hitler used the reichstag fire to point the finger at the communists so that the people of germany would have no qualms with hitler passing inhumane policies and setting up a police state because the anger that the fire induced was enough to quell any opposition.. and hitler always maintained... "its for the good and safety of the german people"

now please... tell me how thats any diffrent from 9/11?

Fascism- a radical political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.

Yes, Bush opposes Communism as does many other world leaders. Yes he supports Corporatism, also, as many other countries do. Authoritarianism-Although we the US are seen by many as the world police, so therefore, autoritarianism would fit, but not confined to bush, but to our country and our government. Nationalism, a very popular trend throughout the world, since most countries in the world support nationalism. Anti-anarchism, easy, yes, he supports this, once again, most countries have a government right? I forgot militarism, which is tricky, because, yes he is using the military, yet, militarism is the push of the military onto private aspects of life, which is not seen enough for him to be called militaristic. Anti-liberalism, well, ill give you a few points here, yes he is an anti-liberalist.

u pretty much agreed with me without directly saying it...

But going thru all that, our government is very fascist then, not only bush, and also, many governents of the world are fascist, whether they come out and say it or not. Fascism is something that we all have to live with. So when you say he supports fascism, dont forget to mention that the world supports fascism within each country, their own fascism, so be it. If you go thru the list of fascist traits, you will see it throughout the world, sorry...

yes but im talking about the united states of america... not the world.. we were founded on democracy not corporations.. basically your arguement is "so what, the world is facist".. but arent we supposedly "diffrent" and "free"?..

Finally, sure chavez is entitles to his opinion. There, technically speaking i guess. But is that at all to do with the point about his credibility? No. The UN could have everyone go to the podium and call each other names, but does everyone do that? No, It is too easy to do that and some people know how to act in respect to other's personal character when dealing with the entire world.
In the end, Chavez is only hurting himslef and his country.

on the contrary.. who else besides people from the U.S had an outcry about what he said? if i remember correctly the majority of the people listening to his speech basically agreed with what he had to say..

And by the way, if i knew what the bible said...
I dont believe in god as the way you do. I believe there is something out there, whether it be God, or something more powerful than ourselves. I dont think religion has anything to do with this, other chavez trying to add "devilish" to Bush's characature.

devil:
–noun 1. Theology. a. (sometimes initial capital letter) the supreme spirit of evil; Satan.
b. a subordinate evil spirit at enmity with God, and having power to afflict humans both with bodily disease and with spiritual corruption.
2. an atrociously wicked, cruel, or ill-tempered person.
3. a person who is very clever, energetic, reckless, or mischievous.
4. a person, usually one in unfortunate or pitiable circumstances: The poor devil kept losing jobs through no fault of his own.

sounds to me like it fit rather well.. and i dunno what u think my religion is but i dont have one... i dont believe in the christian/judeo/catholic/muslim etc "god"

 

[scraper707]

ok, then we have an understanding about the first statment... yes, good and both bad articles about venezuela, yet economically, it is worse as far as inflation goes, just an off the top of my head statement there that i read somewhere...but yes, both good and bad articles about venezuela itself...

And then about the votes discarded? Why is race a facotr now, i didnt mention anything about race... if it is even true that votes were discarded illegitimately anyway... I find it funny, that if so many people believed that this was going on at the time, and that they were that sure of it, then why wasnt more done? I remember those days, and it is funny that Kerry conceded so easily... yet, this is a very debateable subject, as we have shown, so this could go on for days...


Next, we have the nazi thing, again... well first GWB is a nazi because his grandfather was, and because he looked up the reichstag fire, he wanted to use 9/11 as a modern day version of that event. Are we living under a police state?You could argue that we live under a less than mild police state, where the airport is mostly government controlled as in precautions... and he supports fascism, a common political ideology, that is unspokenly popular throughout the world...Is Bush an extreme fascist, no...Is Bush closely related to being a fascist yes, im not denying that fact, but he is more associated with other ideologies, first, before fascism...your arguments do not point Bush in the direction of being a nazi personally, they are just your opinions and expression of dislike for the president...Acceptable as an opinion, but not acceptable as fact... You basically could not make a valid case against Bush being a nazi, not even close. "ok..so he helped fund the third reich and they got wealthy from adolf.. but he's NOT a nazi"- Yes George W. Bush is not a nazi, he had no part in that, he probably wasnt even born yet...Very irrelevant arguments...It is sad if that is true about is grandfather though, but his grandfather is not the leader of our country...

If you cannot see that we are literally not entirely free, and never have been, then of course you are mad...But we have more freedoms than that of most nations of the world...We live pretty damn good...

and to clarify about corporatism...

"Historically, corporatism or corporativism (Italian corporativismo) is a political system in which legislative power is given to civic assemblies that represent economic, industrial, agrarian, and professional groups. Unlike pluralism, in which many groups must compete for control of the state, in corporatism, certain unelected bodies take a critical role in the decision-making process. These corporatist assemblies are not the same as contemporary business corporations or incorporated groups."

You have to understand, I am not defending Bush out of conservative bias, or american ignorance, I too have found faults in Bush, and pretty much every president that preceded Bush... But he is the leader of our country, whether you say he stole the elections or not... He is there in the white house representing our people and nation, whether anyone likes it or not...
I am a moderate...I see it as if we are going to get stronger and more unified as a country, we have to accept responsibility for our actions, as in our current argument with the elections... We can say he stole the elections all we want, but where is the pending ruling on the supreme court case that places Bush and his administration acting unconstitutionally during his elections?

The US is the biggest ally to have in the world, if you dont think that venezuela will face consequences from our allies because of what chavez said, then you have been left in the dark...

I like the underlining in the definition of devil, where you have made your assessment that Bush is an atrociously wicked, cruel, or ill tempered person who also seems to be reckless...

Let me first state(sarcastically) that i remember hanigin out at the white house, and Bush saying that he wanted to kill every nation that opposes us, then after he made that statement he told secret service he wanted to go on a jog, but he wanted to get drunk first and be reckless and while jogging he spit in a lilttle baby's face and after he got mad at the mother of the baby for getting mad at him...If Bush was envolved in this sort of behavior, then yes he is a devil. But as of right now, is not a supreme evil spirit, and not at war with God, or spreading disease, and not an astrociouslywicked cruel, illtempered or reckless person, funny but he doesnt seem that clever, haha, and he is energetic and active, yet not blatantly mischievous either, or one that is in unfortunate or pitable circumstances...

And to address what assumption i made as to your religion, i thought you might have a religion that was associted with the bible since you were trying to quote it earlier...Sorry...

 

[TROLL]

ok, then we have an understanding about the first statment... yes, good and both bad articles about venezuela, yet economically, it is worse as far as inflation goes, just an off the top of my head statement there that i read somewhere...but yes, both good and bad articles about venezuela itself...

ok.. but because its inflation isnt as good doesnt mean its any better or worse the nation X,Y or Z

And then about the votes discarded? Why is race a facotr now, i didnt mention anything about race... if it is even true that votes were discarded illegitimately anyway... I find it funny, that if so many people believed that this was going on at the time, and that they were that sure of it, then why wasnt more done? I remember those days, and it is funny that Kerry conceded so easily... yet, this is a very debateable subject, as we have shown, so this could go on for days...

if u were to read what i posted u would learn that the districts that had the discarded votes were the districts that the majority were minorities.. and ur right, this is very debateable, hence the answer to your question "why wasnt more done??" but there are some facts that CANNOT be justified but wont ever given airplay in the media..

Next, we have the nazi thing, again... well first GWB is a nazi because his grandfather was, and because he looked up the reichstag fire, he wanted to use 9/11 as a modern day version of that event.

yup..

Are we living under a police state?You could argue that we live under a less than mild police state, where the airport is mostly government controlled as in precautions...

so yes... but it doesnt stop at the airports.. when u have abandond and condemned buildings that u detain peaceful protestors for a minimum of 24 hours in, your gonna then try to tell me thats "mild"?? dont dictators do that?

and he supports fascism, a common political ideology, that is unspokenly popular throughout the world...Is Bush an extreme fascist, no...

military conquest is pretty extreme IMO..

Is Bush closely related to being a fascist yes, im not denying that fact, but he is more associated with other ideologies, first, before fascism...

like what??? christianity??

your arguments do not point Bush in the direction of being a nazi personally, they are just your opinions and expression of dislike for the president...

And my personal opinion of someone is based on the actions they take and the dealings behind there decision... if u look at the things bush has done and a list of the things hitler has you will find the beginning of a resemblence... the only thing thats missing is the slaughter of the jewish.. hes not an old fashioned nazi hes a new neo-redneck nazi..

Acceptable as an opinion, but not acceptable as fact... You basically could not make a valid case against Bush being a nazi, not even close.

ok heres a fact.. NOT EVEN HITLER signed a law that would permit torture of kids in front of there parents to get 'information'.. that also said they can torture them 'sexually' and with i needle nose pliers if i remember correctly.. yes this is YOUR president.. saying its OK..

"ok..so he helped fund the third reich and they got wealthy from adolf.. but he's NOT a nazi"- Yes George W. Bush is not a nazi, he had no part in that, he probably wasnt even born yet...Very irrelevant arguments...

ok, your saying my arguement is irrelevant when your making it sound like im saying he was a nazi of that time period.. nazi's exist today, so its too hard to comprehend that somebody whos grandaddy got wealthy from a nazi would feel akin to hitlers ways??? some shit is just obvious when you know the truth behind it and some shit can't be verified without outright paperwork.. and not everything out of bushes mouth is 'on the record'.. so your left only with his actions to come to your own conclusion of his real character because politics is symbiotic with acting and putting on a persona.

It is sad if that is true about is grandfather though, but his grandfather is not the leader of our country...

nope.. he only has his son who has been president and his grandson who currently is president whos brother is a govenor and some others in his bloodline in politics..

If you cannot see that we are literally not entirely free, and never have been, then of course you are mad...But we have more freedoms than that of most nations of the world...We live pretty damn good...

i dont see the method in settling for less by justification thru comparison of the rest of the globe.. we havent been free for a long time..

and to clarify about corporatism...

"Historically, corporatism or corporativism (Italian corporativismo) is a political system in which legislative power is given to civic assemblies that represent economic, industrial, agrarian, and professional groups. Unlike pluralism, in which many groups must compete for control of the state, in corporatism, certain unelected bodies take a critical role in the decision-making process. These corporatist assemblies are not the same as contemporary business corporations or incorporated groups."

and i do not agree with corporatism.. why the fuck would i want a buisness tycoon who, through no choice of myself, be in control of any economic or ecological descion that effects not only me, but my children and my childrens children and the people in the nations around us??.. Nationalism is corrupted by Corporatism..

You have to understand, I am not defending Bush out of conservative bias, or american ignorance, I too have found faults in Bush, and pretty much every president that preceded Bush... But he is the leader of our country, whether you say he stole the elections or not... He is there in the white house representing our people and nation, whether anyone likes it or not...

so.. u have to be proud of what he does by default?? haha sorry, my pride doest turn on and off with the push of a button.. IMO..anyone who thinks its ok for him to break the laws that were set forth to be check's and balances that keep us from being a dictatorship because its 'for our safety'.. then your spineless.. IMO if you just throw your hands up and say 'oh well theres nothing we can do, just accept it'.. then your lazy and or misinformed.. "whether i like it or not" is right and i choose not to like it but that doesnt mean im not going to be outspoken and do something about it..

I am a moderate...I see it as if we are going to get stronger and more unified as a country, we have to accept responsibility for our actions,

and i agree.. starting with the man in charge.. its time to own up to the responsability of 9/11.. to the responsability of the lie about WMD's.. to being responsible for torturing innocent people through exporting of torture and put whoevers responsible for expanding the gap between the rich and the poor out of fuckin any political spotlight they may be in..

as in our current argument with the elections..
We can say he stole the elections all we want, but where is the pending ruling on the supreme court case that places Bush and his administration acting unconstitutionally during his elections?

u know, ive noticed a theme with you.. your very apathetic.. "we can say he stole the elections all we want"....and...."But he is the leader of our country, whether you say he stole the elections or not" etc..the supreme court is slanted and playing deaf....

The US is the biggest ally to have in the world, if you dont think that venezuela will face consequences from our allies because of what chavez said, then you have been left in the dark...

chavez said recently that he thinks bush is going to try to have hiim assasinated.. i mean heh, its not like WE tried to overthrow there government before right???? haha oh yeah we did huh.. but sad how you think some sort of 'vengence' is in store for some comments that a majority of the WORLD thinks is correct...

I like the underlining in the definition of devil, where you have made your assessment that Bush is an atrociously wicked, cruel, or ill tempered person who also seems to be reckless...

Let me first state(sarcastically) that i remember hanigin out at the white house, and Bush saying that he wanted to kill every nation that opposes us, then after he made that statement he told secret service he wanted to go on a jog, but he wanted to get drunk first and be reckless and while jogging he spit in a lilttle baby's face and after he got mad at the mother of the baby for getting mad at him...If Bush was envolved in this sort of behavior, then yes he is a devil. But as of right now, is not a supreme evil spirit, and not at war with God, or spreading disease, and not an astrociouslywicked cruel, illtempered or reckless person, funny but he doesnt seem that clever, haha, and he is energetic and active, yet not blatantly mischievous either, or one that is in unfortunate or pitable circumstances...

why be so extreme when hardly anybody is that blatant?? and i DIDNT underline clever on purpose.. but the entire definition doesnt have to be word for word for it to be able to fit..

And to address what assumption i made as to your religion, i thought you might have a religion that was associted with the bible since you were trying to quote it earlier...Sorry...

im not mad.. jus thought it was something that it was intresting to draw the comparison of

 

[scraper707]

ok, here we go...no, the inflation does not make it a bad place, i said its economy was worse off because of inflation, not a bad place... I have looked at venezuela on the net and it seems there are as many good things to say as there are bad... a give and take relationship, good and bad, not predominantly bad...

And you are right, there are facts that cannot be justified, therefore, to come to the conclusion that the election was stolen or not, is impossible... And why wasn't more done? more of a rhetorical question.

The reichstag fire statement still makes no sense to me, that is a far gap to conclude that bush was using that as a template of his own bidding...Bush is not a dictator either, he was appointed to his position by the people, and only can serve 2 terms, he has no say if he wants to remain president after his 2 terms...And i never said that you should settle for anything, whether it be for a president or not, but accept the fact that he won and he is in office now and that was by the people, the majority. you dont have to settle for anything. But the fact remains he is still president.

And to address your statement about peaceful protetors and them being detained in condemned and abandoned buildings, if you dont mind, could you share a source please.

Military conquests...He bombed Afghanistan, and now we are in Iraq. so these are what you are referring to as military conquests? We did not Conquer these people. They still are Iraqi and Afghani are they not? And the UN is in on it as well...

Christianity is a start, yes, he is known for that... Christian democracy, conservatism...

So by Bush being a neo-nazi, you mean what? you havent provided any real evidence he is a nazi or neo-nazi... He does not promote racial friction, he does not promote a master race, he does not promote anti semitism(old fashioned nazis), he does not promote hate for other religions.
What makes him a neo-nazi then?

I agree that the torture law is horrible... it is not ok...

Im not saying that some of bush's actions are not bad, like i said, i find faults in his actions as well...yet it is far fetched to believe that he is a nazi, neo-nazi, old fashioned nazi...

And your saying that if bush's grandpa was a nazi... then what? he passed it on? First of all, im not saying it is right what bush's grandfather did is right... i think it is wrong, but i would make the argument that bush's grandfather was a corrupt businessman with low morals and bad actions, not a practicing or non practicing nazi...so how does this relate to present day bush? Thats like saying that if my granfather is a fascist, then so am i...

Ok, so what are you buying into? If you know that we have not been free for a while then what are you pointing out? Our freedoms are limited yes, but by justifications thru comparison of other countries, we are living good. what less are we settling for if we havent been free in the beginning?

I was just giving you clarity of what corporatism is. The USA is not a corporatist country.


Did i mention you have to be proud of Bush's actions? I am not proud of all of his actions... Yeah, I dont think i mention that you have to be proud. I mentioned that he is the leader of our country, so we have to deal with it, not be proud. Why shouldnt you be outspoken and do something about it? If you arent outspoken or if you dont try to do something about it arent you as bad as people who you are denouncing that just give up? I mean, you seem to be in the same boat, just giving up right? I understand that there is little that anyone could do about it anyway, but dont twist my words and say that i am saying to be proud of everything he is doing. And im not saying that you should just give up and say, oh well, there is nothing we can do. Im simply pointing out that he is our leader, a people elected leader, whom the majority elected. Here he is, we elected him. i think you are getting confused about what i am saying.


Yes, bush should own up for the WMD's... Yes, he should take responsibility for his actions and namely those that are not favorable...We have to take responsibility that we elected him, and that if the majority thinks that he is not fit to be the president anymore, there are ways and means to end his career as president. Clinton was in the impeachment process for his false testimonial to avoid perjury charges. now if he is so unjust, then why is he not being indicted?

Apathetic huh? what am i supposed to say? He is our leader, is he not? He will remain to be our leader until the next election, will he not? Im doing what im doing, im not so inclined to protest bush, because i dont hate him as much as you, and you said yourself that your views dont mean that you are going to be outspoken and do something about it. So? So what is the difference. Im am just pointing out the FACT that he is our president and will be until the next election. If you want more from me then im sorry, my views dont mean i am going to be outspoken and do something about it...haha, why not be apathetic with this subject?

YESm you are correct, we did try to have him killed. Bush may try again. yes. And then my favorite part............I did not mention vengence but never the less, it does fit in that category, but i did mention consequences, and, low and behold, 7-11 has dropped citgo...a venezuelan backed company...there is a consequence....And yes, i read the article, so no source is necessary, as you have probably read it as well... I know that critics are saying that this has nothing to do with 7-11 dropping citgo...funny how this happened in this timely fashion though, huh? Just sit back and watch... there will be more to do with this as the world goes on...


Now, light heartedly, i made the reference to the word clever in the definition for devil... Which you did not underline... I was just making a joke that bush is not that clever... which the definition uses that word, i was just being light hearted, so calm yourself-

"and i DIDNT underline clever on purpose.. but the entire definition doesnt have to be word for word for it to be able to fit.."

So, I find it interesting that you use the bible, which you do not believe in, as you said, to back your argument...???? If you do not believe in it for religion, then how is at all credible to you and this argument as i do not personally believe in those relgions as well????

 

[TROLL]

ok, here we go...no, the inflation does not make it a bad place, i said its economy was worse off because of inflation, not a bad place... I have looked at venezuela on the net and it seems there are as many good things to say as there are bad... a give and take relationship, good and bad, not predominantly bad...

ok.. jus thought id clarify..

And you are right, there are facts that cannot be justified, therefore, to come to the conclusion that the election was stolen or not, is impossible... And why wasn't more done? more of a rhetorical question.

i agree... but its not impossible to come to a conclusion and have evidence and resources to back it up.. but if u were to sit and determine the ratio of how many facts support the claim as compared to the facts that oppose it you will see the margin tilts in the favor of it being true..i can answer that rhetorical question... nothing is done about it because there is no real opposition to bush in politics.. only puppets.. both sides (republican and democrat) are owned by the banks..

The reichstag fire statement still makes no sense to me, that is a far gap to conclude that bush was using that as a template of his own bidding...

but yet i asked u to name me the diffrences of the opportunity siezed by both events (reichstag and 9/11)

Bush is not a dictator either, he was appointed to his position by the people,

not by me, and did u not admit that u have no proof of this??

and only can serve 2 terms, he has no say if he wants to remain president after his 2 terms...And i never said that you should settle for anything,

and hence the reason i choose to speak out..

whether it be for a president or not, but accept the fact that he won and he is in office now and that was by the people, the majority.

again, u admited theres no proof he won, as well as "no proof" he stole it.. as u say

you dont have to settle for anything. But the fact remains he is still president.

yeah, and thats the obvious, why u chose to state it is beyond me... but i dont have to like it, and i dont..

And to address your statement about peaceful protetors and them being detained in condemned and abandoned buildings, if you dont mind, could you share a source please.

surely...
Anti-RNC Protestors imprisoned in New York::
http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/politics/rights/rncprotestors.html

Making Protest Painful: Detained RNC Protesters Held in Crowded, Oil-Contaminated Conditions::
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/02/1455227

"Those rounded up, many still in protest-costume, were sent to Pier 57, a makeshift "detention center" otherwise known as the Guantanamo-on-the-Hudson."::
http://www.theater2k.com/DKing_T4C_1.html

Military conquests...He bombed Afghanistan, and now we are in Iraq. so these are what you are referring to as military conquests? We did not Conquer these people. They still are Iraqi and Afghani are they not? And the UN is in on it as well...

i dont know about you but i can draw parralels with conquering and occupying...

Christianity is a start, yes, he is known for that... Christian democracy, conservatism...

do u think he's a good christian, or better yet, a good conservative??

So by Bush being a neo-nazi, you mean what? you havent provided any real evidence he is a nazi or neo-nazi.

ive provided a few correlations..

He does not promote racial friction....

how many times in his presidency has he denied to speak to the NAACP OR how about the friction between moslems and the west?..

he does not promote a master race,

not openly..

he does not promote anti semitism(old fashioned nazis),

True.. he is somewhat a zionist puppet as well..

he does not promote hate for other religions.

no.. he promotes fear.... and fear-->ignorance-->anger-->hate..

What makes him a neo-nazi then?

everything u choose not to confront...

I agree that the torture law is horrible... it is not ok...

and i agree... goes to show how humane this person is if they can sigh those kinds of tortures into law..

Im not saying that some of bush's actions are not bad, like i said, i find faults in his actions as well...yet it is far fetched to believe that he is a nazi, neo-nazi, old fashioned nazi...

on the contrary.. i find it very feasable and have listed my reasons.. ur only arguement has been "noooo he cant be!"

And your saying that if bush's grandpa was a nazi... then what? he passed it on?

in a sense.. would u not hold highly someone who gave your family its fortune?

First of all, im not saying it is right what bush's grandfather did is right... i think it is wrong, but i would make the argument that bush's grandfather was a corrupt businessman with low morals and bad actions, not a practicing or non practicing nazi...so how does this relate to present day bush?

how does it relate?? .. did u just not say that his grandfather was "a corrupt businessman with low morals and bad actions".. and that bush jr seems to be the spitting image, (not physically)... how can u not find a connection with "practing nazi-ism" and aiding and abeding hitler?? if u helped the man fund his war and his policies then your more nazi then the soldier whos killing in the name of germany...

Thats like saying that if my granfather is a fascist, then so am i...

no, that isnt the same... i didnt say that he was a nazi solely because his grandfather was... i said he was a nazi because hes proven his actions are nazi-like... i only brought his grandfather up as a possible part of his inspiration.. but your arguement in opposition to my claim has yet to prove anything that ive said is false, nor have u been able to explain or justify his actions as such.. you have just completey denied it because he hasnt thrown on a swastika himself... and if u have to wait for something apparently in front of your face to be blantant and would rather wait for an admission of guilt then to conclude for yourself the truth through proof of the evidence provided you are denying yourself your ability to comprehend the facts... are you going to wait till scott peterson admits to killing lacy before believeing he's innocent?? or what about charles manson??

Ok, so what are you buying into? If you know that we have not been free for a while then what are you pointing out? Our freedoms are limited yes, but by justifications thru comparison of other countries, we are living good. what less are we settling for if we havent been free in the beginning?

so you can be content with settling for a bigger gap between rich and poor here because its worse elsewhere? why? if u kno that its a bad thing but it "isnt as bad" as other places, we should jus be content and shut up? why wait for us to get "as bad" as other places before doing something about it??

I was just giving you clarity of what corporatism is. The USA is not a corporatist country.

u said bush was pro-corporations... so are u going to tell me its ridiculous to think that someone in a position of power whos pro-corporation wouldnt try to push off his pro-corporation beliefs?? i think you would be ridicuolous not to think he would...

Did i mention you have to be proud of Bush's actions? I am not proud of all of his actions... Yeah, I dont think i mention that you have to be proud. I mentioned that he is the leader of our country, so we have to deal with it, not be proud. Why shouldnt you be outspoken and do something about it? If you arent outspoken or if you dont try to do something about it arent you as bad as people who you are denouncing that just give up? I mean, you seem to be in the same boat, just giving up right?

no, i havent given up..

I understand that there is little that anyone could do about it anyway,

thats where i disagree... one person alone cant do much... but when that person spreads the truth and forms a legion of people who kno whats going on then the noise they make is louder...

but dont twist my words and say that i am saying to be proud of everything he is doing. And im not saying that you should just give up and say, oh well, there is nothing we can do. Im simply pointing out that he is our leader, a people elected leader, whom the majority elected. Here he is, we elected him. i think you are getting confused about what i am saying.

of course im getting confused on what your saying... you came into this thread bashing chavez but when i explain to you the truth about certain subjects and why bush is looked down upon u backpeddle and say...
"oh i didnt say u cant be outspoken and u dont have to be proud of what he does... im jus saying he's the president".. WELL NO SHIT!!!your just stating the obvious thinking that your taking attention off the fact you came in here to defend bush and are going to vote republican.. nobody came in here saying he wasnt the president because if he wasnt we wouldnt be here debating the problems we face today.

Yes, bush should own up for the WMD's... Yes, he should take responsibility for his actions and namely those that are not favorable...We have to take responsibility that we elected him, and that if the majority thinks that he is not fit to be the president anymore, there are ways and means to end his career as president.

his approval ratings are what.. in the 30 percentile?? i think thats a majority saying they are unhappy... i live next to a str8 conservative slack jawd yokel who cant stand bush and bad mouths him even more then i do...

Clinton was in the impeachment process for his false testimonial to avoid perjury charges. now if he is so unjust, then why is he not being indicted?

because his lie didnt cause 60,000 american lives and even more iraqi lives... his lie didnt hurt anybody..

whats worse..
lying about a Blowjob??

or

lying your way into a war??

Apathetic huh? what am i supposed to say? He is our leader, is he not? He will remain to be our leader until the next election, will he not? Im doing what im doing, im not so inclined to protest bush, because i dont hate him as much as you, and you said yourself that your views dont mean that you are going to be outspoken and do something about it. So? So what is the difference. Im am just pointing out the FACT that he is our president and will be until the next election. If you want more from me then im sorry, my views dont mean i am going to be outspoken and do something about it...haha, why not be apathetic with this subject?

i think u misunderstood me.. being outspoken and doing something about are things i very much plan on doing and am doing...

YESm you are correct, we did try to have him killed. Bush may try again. yes. And then my favorite part............I did not mention vengence but never the less, it does fit in that category, but i did mention consequences, and, low and behold, 7-11 has dropped citgo...a venezuelan backed company...there is a consequence....And yes, i read the article, so no source is necessary, as you have probably read it as well... I know that critics are saying that this has nothing to do with 7-11 dropping citgo...funny how this happened in this timely fashion though, huh? Just sit back and watch... there will be more to do with this as the world goes on...

im pretty sure and yes i heard the report... of course they arent going to say that chavez was the reason they dropped citgo from the 7-11.. its a way of pleasing the rednex while retaining liberal customers... they dont care your political view as long as u give them your money..

Now, light heartedly, i made the reference to the word clever in the definition for devil... Which you did not underline... I was just making a joke that bush is not that clever... which the definition uses that word, i was just being light hearted, so calm yourself-

i understand and i did get a chuckle from it.. but i didnt pose my own quip because id rather leave the jokes till after this crisis has passed and we can all look back at it..

So, I find it interesting that you use the bible, which you do not believe in, as you said, to back your argument...???? If you do not believe in it for religion, then how is at all credible to you and this argument as i do not personally believe in those relgions as well????

it wasnt neccisarily directed towards u to use in contrast to your own beliefs.. i just thought id put it out there for anybody who believes in those things to have one of those "wow i didnt realize that" when they are brought to the attention of the comparison between the tower of babel and the UN..

 

[scraper707]

hey, i was out of town so i couldnt respond, but i gotta give it to you. you make some good arguments. Ive been away from this discussion so long i dont know where i was, haha, thanks man, good stuff, but ima bow out

 

[EDJ]

^QUITTA.

 

[TROLL]

hey, i was out of town so i couldnt respond, but i gotta give it to you. you make some good arguments. Ive been away from this discussion so long i dont know where i was, haha, thanks man, good stuff, but ima bow out

its koo.. lol right on tho, our responses were getting longer and longer haha..

@EDJ: LMAO..

 

[scraper707]

haha, yeah, it would have gone on forever... good shit...

 

[EDJ]

^I DON'T THINK SO. I BELIEVE YOU WOULD'VE gOT SHUT DOWN AND LOST FOCUS OF YOUR ORIgINAL POINTS.

 

[scraper707]

thats tight