Boxing Vs UFC
- Thread starter krazee d
- Start date
My point was that MMA is still fairly young in comparison. There's a lot of silliness that happened in the old days of boxing and silliness that still goes on now. There's multiple sanctioning bodies, somewhat established ranking systems, certain commissions that actually pay attention and years and years of mistakes to learn from.
MMA hasn't gone through any of that .. it's a stupid comparison either way and they both market themselves completely different. Let MMA go through several years of trial and error.
The silliest thing to me is having a promotional championship. Imagine having Golden Boy Promotions heavyweight champion, a Top Rank heavyweight champion, a Shaw Promotions heavyweight champion etc etc etc. That's the main thing that should be laughed at not a 2-1 guy getting a title shot.
MMA hasn't gone through any of that .. it's a stupid comparison either way and they both market themselves completely different. Let MMA go through several years of trial and error.
The silliest thing to me is having a promotional championship. Imagine having Golden Boy Promotions heavyweight champion, a Top Rank heavyweight champion, a Shaw Promotions heavyweight champion etc etc etc. That's the main thing that should be laughed at not a 2-1 guy getting a title shot.
To me, MMA is the next evolution in combat sports. We just happen to be lucky enough to be living during the beginning of this evolution.
I'm an MMA fan. Boxing (to me) is archaic, in that, you only have to worry about the hands. Now I'm completely aware that there is a high level of complexity to the 'science' that is boxing, don't get me wrong...
Boxing has 2 points (left fist and right fist) that you have to primarily worry about. MMA has so many more points to have to consider that you have to respect the mental abilities of anyone that participates at a high level. MMA is a more cerebral sport because it's like a street fight in that (to a certain degree) ANYTHING can happen. Those 4oz gloves from what I hear are pretty much nothing and if you get caught, game over. On top of that you have to be prepared to block a shin to your dome or to defend a takedown or to defend a flying armbar, lol
The 90s MMA was more spectacle and today's MMA is evolving into a legitimate sport where ATHLETES are dominating. This seems to be turning some people off, because all they want to see is someone get KOd. I kinda feel sorry for those fans because there's really no where to turn for them to get that guaranteed KO fix, because today's boxing sure doesn't give it to them.
I'm an MMA fan. Boxing (to me) is archaic, in that, you only have to worry about the hands. Now I'm completely aware that there is a high level of complexity to the 'science' that is boxing, don't get me wrong...
Boxing has 2 points (left fist and right fist) that you have to primarily worry about. MMA has so many more points to have to consider that you have to respect the mental abilities of anyone that participates at a high level. MMA is a more cerebral sport because it's like a street fight in that (to a certain degree) ANYTHING can happen. Those 4oz gloves from what I hear are pretty much nothing and if you get caught, game over. On top of that you have to be prepared to block a shin to your dome or to defend a takedown or to defend a flying armbar, lol
The 90s MMA was more spectacle and today's MMA is evolving into a legitimate sport where ATHLETES are dominating. This seems to be turning some people off, because all they want to see is someone get KOd. I kinda feel sorry for those fans because there's really no where to turn for them to get that guaranteed KO fix, because today's boxing sure doesn't give it to them.
I think more people just want to see finishes, not just knockouts. The mainstream MMA audience is a lot more educated than they were before. You can see this when the crowd cheers when people advance from position to position on the ground, defend a takedown, the oos and aahs when people get caught in or escape from subs, etc. Nobody wants to see a boring fight. People want to see finishes. And if the fight isn't finished the crowd wants a war. You're completely right about the athletes part. Better athletes will come and guess where 90% of them will come from? Collegiate wrestling. Why? Because this is their only outlet and wrestling runs MMA. Great boxers will go to boxing, great kickerboxers/nak muays go to k1, etc etc.
I get together with a die hard crowd of MMA fans for every event(order every UFC, SF, watch Bellator, Dream, K1, etc) and every single person agrees that this sport is heading a new direction that will change it's mainstream popularity big time(not in a good way).
I get together with a die hard crowd of MMA fans for every event(order every UFC, SF, watch Bellator, Dream, K1, etc) and every single person agrees that this sport is heading a new direction that will change it's mainstream popularity big time(not in a good way).
Maybe I'm not giving the casual fan enough credit but to me they've educated themselves just enough to recognize what they don't want to see and that's where it stops. Everybody pays their money and they want a show, I get that, but it's like most of the casuals don't understand what they're paying for and have unrealistic expectations of the show.
I just think that the fans need to let things work themselves out instead of being spoiled and whining about what currently is pissing them off all the time. I get it, some people don't like wrestling, but it's not like wrestling is so dominant right now that every fight is a wrestling match. Plus it's up to the guy who's fighting the wrestler to train how to defend that game. Just because a couple of champs are wrestlers, that doesn't mean shit, because in an MMA fight, if you zig when you should have zagged, you're getting KTFO and there's no amount of wrestling that can fix that, lol
Things will balance out over time skill wise because the non wrestling athletes are going to be forced to have to learn how to wrestle and become so well rounded that it's going to be hard to play that control game with wrestling. All Rampage had to do against Rashad was get off the fence (and he has a wrestling base). Why couldn't he do that?
I just think that the fans need to let things work themselves out instead of being spoiled and whining about what currently is pissing them off all the time. I get it, some people don't like wrestling, but it's not like wrestling is so dominant right now that every fight is a wrestling match. Plus it's up to the guy who's fighting the wrestler to train how to defend that game. Just because a couple of champs are wrestlers, that doesn't mean shit, because in an MMA fight, if you zig when you should have zagged, you're getting KTFO and there's no amount of wrestling that can fix that, lol
Things will balance out over time skill wise because the non wrestling athletes are going to be forced to have to learn how to wrestle and become so well rounded that it's going to be hard to play that control game with wrestling. All Rampage had to do against Rashad was get off the fence (and he has a wrestling base). Why couldn't he do that?
Because you're at a huge disadvantage already when you're in the octagon. Have you ever trained? When you have you back against the cage you have 0 leverage and you have your hips/legs under you with your back against the cage. Your defensive tools become limited. It's a hell of a lot easier to pin someone against a wall then to have to get someone off you when you have the cage to your back and them to your front. It's so easy to pull someones hips and legs under them or use trips and throws when you have them against the cage or just completely pin them their and nullify everything they can do. This is one of the main reason why wrestling is so strong in the cage. This is mainly for what Rashad was doing. There are instance where the cage helps stop a half assed take down by lowering your center of gravity and working under hooks, wizzers, etc.
Nah I don't train. I just like trying to reverse engineer the fights to try to understand how stuff works. Doesn't the wizzer give you the ability to spin out of that situation though? I know there have to be counters to that, but isn't that one of the uses of that technique?
Is the lack of leverage due to the give (bending) of the cage? Would the same problem exist if I was up against a wall?
Rashad was pushing Rampage from the middle of the Octagon to the cage
and Rampage let him. It just looked like Rampage was LETTING Rashad control him in that fight.
Is the lack of leverage due to the give (bending) of the cage? Would the same problem exist if I was up against a wall?
Rashad was pushing Rampage from the middle of the Octagon to the cage
and Rampage let him. It just looked like Rampage was LETTING Rashad control him in that fight.
Yeah, the whizzer is used to stop a take downs by keeping you infront of your opponent and letting you escape by moving to the side of them. It only works for shots or someone trying to take your hips out from under you tho. You can't use a whizzer when your pinned completely straight up against a cage because you're giving them the underhook.
When we trained we practiced against a wall so I don't think the wall vs cage would make a difference. The cage giving also helps out the wrestler because my old coach would teach us to just keep driving and let the momentum carry you into the cage, bouncing off and helping you finish a take down.
I think it looked like Rampage was, but he wasn't. Rashad is a sick ass wrestler and a sick athlete. There's only so much you can do when the entire set up the fight(cage, rules, etc.) all favor the guy trying to pin you against the cage and take you down.
btw this is a small reason why wrestling is so strong in MMA. Amazing wrestlers, rules that favor wrestling, cage, etc. it goes on and on.
When we trained we practiced against a wall so I don't think the wall vs cage would make a difference. The cage giving also helps out the wrestler because my old coach would teach us to just keep driving and let the momentum carry you into the cage, bouncing off and helping you finish a take down.
I think it looked like Rampage was, but he wasn't. Rashad is a sick ass wrestler and a sick athlete. There's only so much you can do when the entire set up the fight(cage, rules, etc.) all favor the guy trying to pin you against the cage and take you down.
btw this is a small reason why wrestling is so strong in MMA. Amazing wrestlers, rules that favor wrestling, cage, etc. it goes on and on.
This is exactly what is turning some people off IMO. People tend to forget that this is Mixed Martial Arts, and that includes wrestling but so many people hate the wrestling aspect. I believe the general fan is highly uneducated. Just listen to some of them (not meaning the people on this site, but your local bar moron) and you can tell they do not know anything about any aspect of MMA, except for putting people to sleep in some sort of way and lately the sport has evolved and you don't see as many finishes it is becoming more technical and I for one enjoy that aspect. I actually enjoyed the Rashad Vs Rampage fight. MMA was a high action alternative to boxing because quite a few boxing matches go to decision and they do not understand the sweet science that is boxing and got bored with that too.
In regards to how quickly MMA fighters can come in and take on top competition, maybe this is worth noting: does anyone have an idea on how big of a difference there is in the number of people who train to become professional boxers and those that train in MMA? I would imagine the more competition, the lesser the chances are that someone will succeed in the sport, ie. boxing.
That could have something to do with it, I just think that the sport is still very young and still evolving, ie; GSP, I mean most elite fighters from 10 or so years ago would get dominated by GSP no problem at all. Another thing people seem to forget is that these gloves are small, they are more cushion to help prevent broken hands than anything else.
Boxing is one aspect and that is why it is extremely technical. Go to any single aspect in MMA and you will find elites just like in boxing. A pure MMA guy that has learned BJJ through a "MMA camp" would most likely get destroyed in a BJJ tourney and that goes the same with Judo, Samba, wrestling etc; (I am willing to bet a top national high school wrestler would dominate most MMA guys in a wrestling match, thus also being the reason wrestlers are dominating in MMA at the moment)
When there is one aspect you will see the extreme technical science aspect like you do with boxing but when mixed all together it's not the same, you can't position yourself the same, you can't hold your hands the same, you can't strike the same, a BJJ guy can't pull guard the same, it all has to be altered and that takes out the extreme technicalities sometimes. I still think that we have yet to see someone truley put the science in that will take MMA to that next level that boxers are at. I prefer MMA but admit that there is still room for improvement. I mean how many boxers from the first 10 years that boxing started would have any chance agaisnt top boxers of todays standards.
Boxing is one aspect and that is why it is extremely technical. Go to any single aspect in MMA and you will find elites just like in boxing. A pure MMA guy that has learned BJJ through a "MMA camp" would most likely get destroyed in a BJJ tourney and that goes the same with Judo, Samba, wrestling etc; (I am willing to bet a top national high school wrestler would dominate most MMA guys in a wrestling match, thus also being the reason wrestlers are dominating in MMA at the moment)
When there is one aspect you will see the extreme technical science aspect like you do with boxing but when mixed all together it's not the same, you can't position yourself the same, you can't hold your hands the same, you can't strike the same, a BJJ guy can't pull guard the same, it all has to be altered and that takes out the extreme technicalities sometimes. I still think that we have yet to see someone truley put the science in that will take MMA to that next level that boxers are at. I prefer MMA but admit that there is still room for improvement. I mean how many boxers from the first 10 years that boxing started would have any chance agaisnt top boxers of todays standards.