Police kill 13 year old boy

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May 7, 2013
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www.hoescantstopme.biz
This isn't about taking away rights it's about common sense.

I am not sure if you are doing a really bad and blatant job of creating a straw man argument here or not, but no one is arguing whether this gun looked like an automatic weapon or not, simply that it looked real.
If its not about taking away rights then why are they doing it? Why do the anti-gun activists jump on every issue? Because its not about common sense it is about taking away rights.

The I.P.I.M. cat kept bringing up it looked like an automatic weapon, so, yes someone was saying that.

For someone that seems to be generally down on cops, you sure seem to expect them to poses superhuman powers.
If you are insinuating you need superhuman powers to decipher that a 13 year old child is carrying a toy gun out in the open versus a real one, why have police for decades been able to decipher it without superhuman powers? Children were not getting shot by police over toy guns in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s. In 2013 one did and its justifiable? Get real.
You are kidding yourself if you think you could tell the difference between a "real" gun and some of these "toy" guns from 50ft away in just a few seconds.
The police were not 50 feet away. 10 seconds passed between them notifying dispatch of the situation and them murdering this child. 10 seconds. How many warnings did the officer give in 10 seconds along with the 8 shots he fired?

EXACTLY. (I guess it all really is simple math)
 
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MysticOracle

si vis pacem para bellum
May 4, 2006
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Here we carry real guns. People out here carry pistols, rifles, whatever, we believe in the 2nd Amendment and our state acknowledges that right. I don't profile people by the way they look and judge whether they should have a gun or not, I believe in gun rights. People on the other side believe in authoritarianism and collectivism. We don't have draconian gun laws out here. I understand the world you live in does not respect your rights. First they take away yours, the populace there accepts it, and next they try and want to take away ours. This game is not new. For those that know their US "his story", know that when Paul Revere was warning people the British were coming, the British were coming for their guns. The first gun control laws post British were pushed by the KKK (created from members of the democratic party) because they did not want non-whites to be able to arm themselves. In 2013 the front is the UN via US political pundits trying to tell so-called free people what their rights should be concerning guns. Places in the US with the most restrictive gun laws have the most violent crime statistics in the nation. Why is that? Because you allowed yourself to be made a target by letting the system infringe on your rights.

People who say this child's toy gun looked like an automatic weapon, you obviously don't understand guns. Automatic weapons are illegal to possess in every state, unless you have a class III license. Just because a weapon can be converted to automatic, does not mean it is not a semi-automatic.

All of that is besides the fact that a child was murdered for carrying a toy gun not a real one.
in california we also carry guns, some more than others ...we still have the 2nd amendment no matter how bad certain politicians would love to remove it...california is probably the worst place to own a gun with all the requirements and limitations a lot of fine print bullshit... anyways this really isnt about gun laws or how the government imposes control..its about the kid and the lack of common sense to be walking around with what appears to be a AK-47 rifle...this has nothing to do with semi or fully and you cant tell if it would be fully auto or not just by looking ,and from a distance? get real...the gun looks real enough to me and as a person that used to help a guy build them from scratch..the replica looks just as real from a distance and quite possibly until you hold it and feel it where by then it should be obvious...
 
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May 9, 2002
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I guess? I am admittedly slightly confused by your point in the paragraph above.

People carry real guns here too my friend. I believe strongly in gun rights. I have a cwp and carry a gun with me most places.

This isn't about taking away rights it's about common sense.



I am not sure if you are doing a really bad and blatant job of creating a straw man argument here or not, but no one is arguing whether this gun looked like an automatic weapon or not, simply that it looked real.

Whether that gun is bolt action, semi automatic, or fully automatic is completely irrelevant to whether or not it looked real.

You also realize that in most cases the difference between a semi-automatic and fully automatic rifle would be imperceptible by simply looking at the gun. You would need to disassemble the receiver to discern that.



For someone that seems to be generally down on cops, you sure seem to expect them to poses superhuman powers.

You are kidding yourself if you think you could tell the difference between a "real" gun and some of these "toy" guns from 50ft away in just a few seconds.
Thank you. Im still baffled at the arguments made by StillHustlin, but im glad someone sees through the bullshit.

:ermm:
 
May 7, 2013
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Thank you. Im still baffled at the arguments made by StillHustlin, but im glad someone sees through the bullshit.

:ermm:
says the idiot who brought the word automatic into the discussion. I think Jessie is baffled because he is a goddamn idiot. No lie I'm through discussing anything with you, you win the internet arguing tough guy.
:ermm:
 
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May 7, 2013
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Word. That is what I said, but I did not mean this was the first child ever shot by police with a toy gun, my mistake. You are right about better documented and the power of the internet, no doubt. Most of the examples are CA & NY, the land of draconian gun laws and anti gun views. I say that because the law enforcement actions of those states are no surprise to me. I was not shocked this 13 year old child was murdered by police, I am shocked that mufuqas tryin to justify it. At the end of the day the point still stands, they murdering our children over nothing.

Antonio Saldivar case (Huntington Beach) settled

Noe Rojas case (San Diego) - settled

I'm sure if we look up each case were a child was committing no crime and not prohibited to possess a toy gun we more than likely see a settlement... If they were justifiable there would be no settlement
 
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MysticOracle

si vis pacem para bellum
May 4, 2006
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kids get shot over replica or "real" looking guns all the time..thats the main reason why they have to have the orange tip when sold...i had a replica 9mm that shot bb's when i bought it was cast in orange plastic ...paint that shit black and guess what you could rob stores or people easily ...the simple fact that nobody really wants to be that person to find out if its a real or not ..rolling the dice just on that hopeful chance that it is a fake...same thing with this case..does a cop or anyone want to roll the dice and hope its a fake...

you make it sound like every cop is a menace and just waking up everyday hoping to kill a kid ... the part you need to grasp is that the gun looked like a real genuine AK-47 ...and guess what is known to happen if you dont drop your weapon or make movements that may or may not be in violent nature ...its a bad turn of events ..the kid had earphones on, didnt drop the gun when he saw the cop, quite possibly made a turn at the cop with the replica in hand and there's the outcome...

also, im tired of hearing this toy gun excuse...nerf makes toy guns, they shoot foam darts and such and look like toy guns probably more fitting for a 13 year old to be carrying around

the kid had a replica AK-47 air soft ...in fact not a toy...no gun real or BB/pellet/dart/paint should ever be considered a toy ..common sense/ bad parenting on the parents part for letting him have or leave the house with it...or at the very least teaching him the rights and wrongs of gun safety...who in their right mind would think that its ok to walk down the road anywhere with a replica AK and not think maybe this isnt a good idea?
 
Apr 25, 2002
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Here we carry real guns. People out here carry pistols, rifles, whatever, we believe in the 2nd Amendment and our state acknowledges that right. I don't profile people by the way they look and judge whether they should have a gun or not, I believe in gun rights. People on the other side believe in authoritarianism and collectivism. We don't have draconian gun laws out here. I understand the world you live in does not respect your rights. First they take away yours, the populace there accepts it, and next they try and want to take away ours. This game is not new. For those that know their US "his story", know that when Paul Revere was warning people the British were coming, the British were coming for their guns. The first gun control laws post British were pushed by the KKK (created from members of the democratic party) because they did not want non-whites to be able to arm themselves. In 2013 the front is the UN via US political pundits trying to tell so-called free people what their rights should be concerning guns. Places in the US with the most restrictive gun laws have the most violent crime statistics in the nation. Why is that? Because you allowed yourself to be made a target by letting the system infringe on your rights.

thats word player. everything about it. your in a red state. Cali's a blue state. probably one of the bluest thinking states. they're brain washing and fucking us and allowing us to be fucked in every way.

you dont profile people and thats good, but most people profile while not always admitting it or realizing it. profiling is part of survival. the dinosaurs did that shit.


People who say this child's toy gun looked like an automatic weapon, you obviously don't understand guns. Automatic weapons are illegal to possess in every state, unless you have a class III license. Just because a weapon can be converted to automatic, does not mean it is not a semi-automatic.
most of America dont give a shit about guns player. that makes them not understand them. so if most people are going to think you have this (even if its not), those "most people" are what matter. majority wins in American society. except with the popular vote vs the electoral college. it doesnt matter if every gun enthusiast in the country thinks it looks like (what ever) and its not. theres relatively few gun enthusiasts, compared to everybody who dont care about guns, not including strapped criminals. thats why theres the NRA. so that relatively small portion of America who loves guns has a voice with power in numbers.
 
Nov 14, 2002
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i remember being kid and shit like this happend a lot.thats when they starting putting those orange things in front of fake guns so the cops could tell its fake.as a kid i blew gum cigarettes,had fake guns,a fake knife,bagged up grass like it was weed and chopped up white wax like i was selling dope and really started selling dope before i was a teen.theres no way i let my kids do the things i did as kid. lol

RIP to the kids that died over fake guns & BB Guns by the police.
 
Props: DuceTheTruth

DuceTheTruth

No Flexxin No Fakin
Apr 1, 2003
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i remember being kid and shit like this happend a lot.thats when they starting putting those orange things in front of fake guns so the cops could tell its fake.as a kid i blew gum cigarettes,had fake guns,a fake knife,bagged up grass like it was weed and chopped up white wax like i was selling dope and really started selling dope before i was a teen.theres no way i let my kids do the things i did as kid. lol

RIP to the kids that died over fake guns & BB Guns by the police.

I even remember a few times when we all mobbed to the 99 cent store to buy rags so we could come back to the apts to have "gang fights".....we resorted to this when shootin body got boring.

smh....fun times tho
 
Props: BIGCHILL

mrtonguetwista

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Feb 6, 2003
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SANTA ROSA (BCN) — More than 100 people packed the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors chambers this afternoon to continue their protest of the killing of 13-year-old Andy Lopez by a sheriff’s deputy in October.

Many brought mirrors in a symbolic attempt to get the supervisors to take a hard look at themselves for failing to advocate punishment or an indictment for the deputy, Erick Gelhaus, or to follow the recommendations of a U.S. Commission on Civil Rights report in 2000 aimed at improving police procedures after a spate of officer-involved shootings in the 1990s.

The recommendations included establishing a civilian review of officer-involved shootings. The current Board of Supervisors has formed a 21-member Local Law Enforcement Task Force that will review options for an independent citizen review body. The task force’s first meeting is Monday, and its final recommendations are due in December.

More than 50 people filled out cards to speak during the three-hour hearing.

“Do something. Be useful please,” community activist Nicole Guerra implored in tears. “Figure out a way to make this happen,” she said. Lopez was her son’s best friend, Guerra said.

There were times when it seemed the afternoon’s public hearing on general matters would get out of control.

Some people insisted on speaking out of turn, and profanity-laced comments were directed from the audience at Board Chairman David Rabbitt and Supervisor Efren Carrillo, the sole Latino on the board and supervisor of the 5th District where Lopez was shot.

The teen was carrying an airsoft BB gun that resembled an AK-47 assault weapon in a field just southwest of Santa Rosa on Oct. 22, and Gelhaus told Santa Rosa police he thought the gun was real and that his life and his co-deputy’s life were in danger as the barrel of the gun rose as Lopez turned toward him.

Gelhaus shot him seven times.

Many speakers decried what they said was the militarization of local law enforcement agencies in society.

There have been at least 10 protest marches or rallies in Santa Rosa since Lopez’s death.

Thomas Morabito of Sebastopol was among those who criticized the presence of armed sheriff’s deputies at the rallies at the sheriff’s office and the county jail.

“Sonoma County blew it at the first protest when it greeted the protestors with riot gear and snipers on the roof,” Morabito said.

He and others said the sheriff’s office employees should have regarded the protestors as citizens engaging in peaceful protest, and not as criminals and enemies.

A contingent of women wore white in solidarity with Lopez’s grieving mother Sujay Cruz. Some of the “Mothers in White” called on Supervisors Shirlee Zane and Susan Gorin to be heroines and help them reveal the power structure in the county that they believe is preventing Gelhaus from being arrested and charged with murder.

Sonoma County District Attorney Jill Ravitch’s office will review the investigation by Santa Rosa police of the Lopez shooting.

A large portion of the crowd left the hearing to accompany attorney Arnoldo Casillas when he filed an amendment to the civil rights violation lawsuit he previously filed on behalf of Sujay Cruz and Rodrigo Lopez, the teen’s father.

Casillas filed the amended complaint in the reception area of the County Administration Building next to the supervisors’ chambers.

The 20-page amended complaint alleges Sonoma County was aware Gelhaus had racist and extremist tendencies and beliefs, and attended and was an instructor at a shooting academy whose founder held extremist and homophobic, racist and separatist views.

The complaint alleges Gelhaus was a regular contributor to online shooting and firearms tactics magazines and blogs, and he “instructed and advised others on questionable tactics,” including “how an officer must respond to justify shooting a kid with a toy gun.”

After Gelhaus shot Lopez, he immediately tried to erase, conceal and otherwise destroy evidence of his racist, separatist and extremist beliefs, and he wrongfully erased his own commentary, postings in chat rooms and other writings in an effort to conceal his beliefs, according to the amended complaint.

The Sonoma County Counsel’s Office said it had not yet received the amended complaint.
 

mrtonguetwista

$$ Deep Pockets $$
Feb 6, 2003
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SANTA ROSA, Calif. —

Owners of a North Bay mall have apologized after security guards asked customers to remove t-shirts they were wearing, paying tribute to Andy Lopez.

Nicole Guerra was one of the customers asked to remove her shirt, and told KTVU about the moment Santa Rosa Plaza security guards confronted her.

“You can completely tell how embarrassed I was. There was no reason I should have had to do that,” said Guerra as she showed cell phone video of the confrontation.

Guerra’s teenage son grew-up with Lopez, the 13-year-old shot and killed by Sonoma County Sheriff’s Deputy Erick Gelhaus after he said he mistook Lopez’s airsoft gun for an AK-47.

Guerra said she wears the memorial t-shirt in the teen’s honor, and was wearing it Monday night following a protest earlier that afternoon with the Justice for Andy Lopez coalition.

“[We were] literally sitting down to have a family dinner in the food court,” said Guerra.

In the cell phone video you can see several guards approach Guerra, her children and Lopez’s parents.

“They said you need to remove your shirt. It is not allowed in the mall or you need to leave and that was so embarrassing, so humiliating, and so frustrating,” said Guerra.

She called her attorney who wrote the owners of the mall. He says a California Supreme Court case protects free speech even in private shopping center.

It’s unclear why the guards approached the family.

“I believe it was more of a power trip and maybe they have something against what we’re doing,” said Guerra.

Attorneys for the mall responded with a letter and said, “We are deeply disappointed that the actions of the security officers did not comply with our policies and procedures and regret that this incident occurred.”

US Security Associates provides the mall security. Attempts to reach a company representative Friday afternoon were unsuccessful.

Meanwhile, Andy Lopez supporters are declaring a victory and on Sunday they’ll make a loop around the mall in their t-shirts, simply because they can.