Thoughts on why no Bay Area artist
- Thread starter NovaKaine
- Start date
I don't know the real answer, but as a consumer, there haven't been enough quality projects coming out of the bay. There was a time when Jive had some bay area artists obviously and that was huge and almost taken for granted. JT the Bigga Figga and San Quinn on Priority obviously had really high quality work. You had other artists on Swerve like N2Deep and Mac Dre for a time, and those were high quality albums and they sold pretty well, relatively speaking. Messy Marv, C-Bo, Killa Tay, Brotha Lynch, etc... all had very high quality work. But when those regional labels that were putting their music out fell apart, the quality started to dip overall. It seemed like there was less quality control. Back in the days, I remember hearing artists saying they recorded like 18-22 tracks for their cd's, but maybe only 14 made the cut.
Nowadays, without a label managing that quality control, you're probably getting 14 out of 14 songs that were recorded. The artists manage themselves, and they're less likely to be real with themselves or they need a paycheck. They also are more likely to have "yes" men around them telling them every track goes hard. In this day and age, we are getting 50% or less of the quality we were getting without labels like Swerve or AWOL. At least that's the way I see it. Too many small labels. Too many wack producers. Too many artists managing themselves. Too little money spent on mixing/mastering. And too little honesty if we're being real. Everyone swears they're living a life they're not. No one believes you're pushing kilo's and Benz's if your project sounds like it has awful mastering.
Nowadays, without a label managing that quality control, you're probably getting 14 out of 14 songs that were recorded. The artists manage themselves, and they're less likely to be real with themselves or they need a paycheck. They also are more likely to have "yes" men around them telling them every track goes hard. In this day and age, we are getting 50% or less of the quality we were getting without labels like Swerve or AWOL. At least that's the way I see it. Too many small labels. Too many wack producers. Too many artists managing themselves. Too little money spent on mixing/mastering. And too little honesty if we're being real. Everyone swears they're living a life they're not. No one believes you're pushing kilo's and Benz's if your project sounds like it has awful mastering.
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@BABY
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Props:
ParadoxMRR and ParadoxMRR
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Baby Bash/Beesh gets no bay love for some reason. He's definitely one of the biggest selling artists outta the bay these days. Just because he connects with Texas doesn't mean that he doesn't have love for the bay. I don't get why fools don't give him more props.
Props:
A.R.(H2) and A.R.(H2)
Read the 2nd paragraph of your earlier post. How you feel about the artists nowadays is how people generally feel about artists like Baby Bash. It has nothing to do with Texas, he is just seen as another disposable rapper. He doesn't suck, its just people are gonna feel certain rappers more than others.
CUZ THATS WHAT LABELS DO.....INVEST IN ARTISTS. ITS A GAMBLE. IM GLAD I ACTUALLY GOT 2 WITNESS WHAT A REAL LABEL IS CUZ HONESTLY I'VE BEEN ACTIVE IN THE BAY AND HAVENT SEEN A REAL LABEL SINCE THE LATE 90'S. THIZZ WAS CLOSE BUT THE LACC OF ORGANIZATION WAS PRETTY APPARENT AFTER THE DEATH OF THE GREAT MAC DRE. #YUP YUP
Props:
MIIthasav and MIIthasav
To me, this is the biggest reason Northern Cali artists don't take off. Internet is changing this but I still think the lack of neighboring regions plays a huge role. You just can't hit cities the same way out here. Music doesn't have as much of a chance to move organically.
Props:
Foul Mouth and Foul Mouth
Because all of these bay area rappers lost that bay area sound. i fuckin hate that Iamsu is hot. why? his music sounds like something straight from tyga or yg. his beats he uses...thats not what we sound like. thats not bay sound. 40 and some others like hbk and kool john n all them are startin to do the same. even roach hopped on the wagon with those beats
we damn need to bring the hyphy shit back just to get noticed and be different again
we damn need to bring the hyphy shit back just to get noticed and be different again
I agree that the Bay has lost it's sound, but Hyphy never WAS and never WILL be the answer...
Many years ago (probably too long for some of you to remember), The Bay was much like the South Bronx of the West Coast. We did it all here, but we were 100% original wit' it. LET ME BE CLEAR... Mobb Music IS the sound of the Bay. We had a NATIONWIDE fanbase with Mobb Music because we were the alternative to all of the other region's who's music was noticeably faster than ours and less musical. We lost our fans because we tried to speed up our music to make it more danceable LIKE those other regions. Hammer took bay musicality and speeded it up, and made a killin on the charts. What those who joined that bandwagon failed to realize was... that any music style that is tied to a particular dance craze is destined to die when that dance craze dies. Hammer is the LIVING example of that.
The REAL beginning of the end though, to me, was when Sic Wid it signed for 3.5 Mil to Jive. BEFORE that... the game was a whole lot less cluttered. AFTER that... every swangin d*ck and his granny decided that if E & Them could do it, the they could too. The problem WAS, and IS, that everybody CANT do it... Mobb Music production is based on REAL MUSICANSHIP. REAL Basses, REAL Guitars, Real Keyboards, and Real Studio Production Technique. Everything else involved in making Mobb Music (Sampling and Triggering) is not production its just beat making. It might even be REAL Beat Making... But alone it's not production, it's just BEAT MAKING. Nowadays there are just too many Garbage Ass Bay Area acts to sift through, rappin over beat maker music that sounds as if it came from anywhere BUT the Bay. I swear, if have to hear another trap roll in some track that some fool claims is Mobb... you better have a well known Dirty South Artist on that b*tch!
So really, thats where we are today... a Whole Lotta BEAT MAKERS and not enough PRODUCERS. These Bay Area beatmakers take cues from other beatmakers who are hot (regardless of their region) and let's face it... most of these new beatmakers and rappers are tryin' to blow up and aren't ashamed to BITE to do it. It didn't used to be that way. Sh*t, you'd rather beat your Mama than BITE back in the day cause being a known Bay Area rappers or producer was special back then. Again... everybody couldn't pull it off. They stood head and shoulders above the average cat, and if you didn't have an original, recognizable style you was WACK! Nowadays everybody raps and makes beats, and everybody sounds like the Cat next door, with no originality whatsoever.
So how do we solve this problem? Well if you want the ENTIRE Bay to rise again, then my suggestion to the beatmakers is to start BACK at REAL MOBB MUSIC (not that watered down sh*t) and let a newer Bay Area sound gradually evolve from there. Learn to play some real instruments and learn some real studio techniques. If you're only interested in doing your own thang then just do that and stop BITING. Dont go out and buy the same keyboard or plugz that the next famous cat is using, USE SOMETHING DIFFERENT! CHANGE THE GAME! And to the rappers? Man y'all better get your rap personas together cause that ol'e lazy ass, surped up, next door n*gga style is some straight up Bullsh*t! For REAL! Why you think 40 has lasted so long? He's so original that he CAN'T be bitten. It would be TOO OBVIOUS. When you get to THAT level of originality what it REALLY means is... if you want THAT PARTICULAR artist's sound... you don't have a choice... you gotta buy dope from HIM and HIM ALONE...
Many years ago (probably too long for some of you to remember), The Bay was much like the South Bronx of the West Coast. We did it all here, but we were 100% original wit' it. LET ME BE CLEAR... Mobb Music IS the sound of the Bay. We had a NATIONWIDE fanbase with Mobb Music because we were the alternative to all of the other region's who's music was noticeably faster than ours and less musical. We lost our fans because we tried to speed up our music to make it more danceable LIKE those other regions. Hammer took bay musicality and speeded it up, and made a killin on the charts. What those who joined that bandwagon failed to realize was... that any music style that is tied to a particular dance craze is destined to die when that dance craze dies. Hammer is the LIVING example of that.
The REAL beginning of the end though, to me, was when Sic Wid it signed for 3.5 Mil to Jive. BEFORE that... the game was a whole lot less cluttered. AFTER that... every swangin d*ck and his granny decided that if E & Them could do it, the they could too. The problem WAS, and IS, that everybody CANT do it... Mobb Music production is based on REAL MUSICANSHIP. REAL Basses, REAL Guitars, Real Keyboards, and Real Studio Production Technique. Everything else involved in making Mobb Music (Sampling and Triggering) is not production its just beat making. It might even be REAL Beat Making... But alone it's not production, it's just BEAT MAKING. Nowadays there are just too many Garbage Ass Bay Area acts to sift through, rappin over beat maker music that sounds as if it came from anywhere BUT the Bay. I swear, if have to hear another trap roll in some track that some fool claims is Mobb... you better have a well known Dirty South Artist on that b*tch!
So really, thats where we are today... a Whole Lotta BEAT MAKERS and not enough PRODUCERS. These Bay Area beatmakers take cues from other beatmakers who are hot (regardless of their region) and let's face it... most of these new beatmakers and rappers are tryin' to blow up and aren't ashamed to BITE to do it. It didn't used to be that way. Sh*t, you'd rather beat your Mama than BITE back in the day cause being a known Bay Area rappers or producer was special back then. Again... everybody couldn't pull it off. They stood head and shoulders above the average cat, and if you didn't have an original, recognizable style you was WACK! Nowadays everybody raps and makes beats, and everybody sounds like the Cat next door, with no originality whatsoever.
So how do we solve this problem? Well if you want the ENTIRE Bay to rise again, then my suggestion to the beatmakers is to start BACK at REAL MOBB MUSIC (not that watered down sh*t) and let a newer Bay Area sound gradually evolve from there. Learn to play some real instruments and learn some real studio techniques. If you're only interested in doing your own thang then just do that and stop BITING. Dont go out and buy the same keyboard or plugz that the next famous cat is using, USE SOMETHING DIFFERENT! CHANGE THE GAME! And to the rappers? Man y'all better get your rap personas together cause that ol'e lazy ass, surped up, next door n*gga style is some straight up Bullsh*t! For REAL! Why you think 40 has lasted so long? He's so original that he CAN'T be bitten. It would be TOO OBVIOUS. When you get to THAT level of originality what it REALLY means is... if you want THAT PARTICULAR artist's sound... you don't have a choice... you gotta buy dope from HIM and HIM ALONE...
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Heres the disconnect:
I think a lot of artists have misconceptions behind exactly what "getting a record deal" really is: Getting a loan. And as with getting any loan, when you don't have much to put down, (eg: small regional audience / fan base) you don't have much leverage and are probably going to get a fcuked up rate on that loan. (eg: a seemingly "unfair" deal).
It isn't right. But it is the way majors choose to run their business. They leave "the gambling" you talkin about to the young dreamers. (aspiring artists)
In business, if you take too many gambles you end up broke. #fact - Labels know this and have adjusted their business models accordingly. (SEE: 360 deal)
These deals favor the labels and they see it as: "If i'm funding you, you're giving me a piece of everything."
On the upside, the trade off to signing the deal ( and going into debt ) is that if you do it right, you can build your brand recognition while your in the process of paying the label back. So when it comes time to renegotiate the deal, the ball will be in your court.
Unfortunately (and understandably) most artists don't wanna "feel played" so they never make it past stage one. They'll also never know what could have been either...
But I will add this: (in defense of the artist)
Not taking the deal can (sometimes) be beneficial because the industry "machine" has been known to sign groups (in the past) just to shelve them (push them out the way) in favor of pushing their "more promising" acts forward..
*************************************************
(About 40 water)
Artists like 40 (and Master P?) are the "1%" when it comes to playing the game. They understand business and leverage. Additionally they watch trends and do market research too. Peep: "earl stevens selections" & a slew of "albums" in a few short months. 40 understands his demographic, industry trends and branding.
40. is. winning.
$.02
I think a lot of artists have misconceptions behind exactly what "getting a record deal" really is: Getting a loan. And as with getting any loan, when you don't have much to put down, (eg: small regional audience / fan base) you don't have much leverage and are probably going to get a fcuked up rate on that loan. (eg: a seemingly "unfair" deal).
It isn't right. But it is the way majors choose to run their business. They leave "the gambling" you talkin about to the young dreamers. (aspiring artists)
In business, if you take too many gambles you end up broke. #fact - Labels know this and have adjusted their business models accordingly. (SEE: 360 deal)
These deals favor the labels and they see it as: "If i'm funding you, you're giving me a piece of everything."
On the upside, the trade off to signing the deal ( and going into debt ) is that if you do it right, you can build your brand recognition while your in the process of paying the label back. So when it comes time to renegotiate the deal, the ball will be in your court.
Unfortunately (and understandably) most artists don't wanna "feel played" so they never make it past stage one. They'll also never know what could have been either...
But I will add this: (in defense of the artist)
Not taking the deal can (sometimes) be beneficial because the industry "machine" has been known to sign groups (in the past) just to shelve them (push them out the way) in favor of pushing their "more promising" acts forward..
*************************************************
(About 40 water)
Artists like 40 (and Master P?) are the "1%" when it comes to playing the game. They understand business and leverage. Additionally they watch trends and do market research too. Peep: "earl stevens selections" & a slew of "albums" in a few short months. 40 understands his demographic, industry trends and branding.
40. is. winning.
$.02
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honestly i think the idea of being "mainstream" is over rated. It's not like it was in the 90's were artists had creatve freedom and the music was genuine. Honestly i believe that in order for a lot of these artists to maintain their identities is to stay away from mainstream media which seems to be about a lot of gimmicks and advertising rather than the music itself. But maybe im jus older and haven't grasped the big picture. It seems that an artist would make more money pushing their own movement. We have artists that are popular nationwide that haven't been on 106 & park
Truth is, it's not really a gamble. The large labels, unlike the small minuscule labels in The Bay, have better than hedged their bets when signing artists, because unlike the small labels , "The Majors" have large mechanisms which include a large amount of employees, whom they cannot afford to hire and fire on a whim. In turn, they have well thought out business plans that dictate what acceptable levels of sales are. They cannot afford to deal in FAITH. If you do not meet their margins you are shelved or let go. PERIOD.
Most artists have overblown ideas of what their own capabilities are. Somewhere down the line they bought in to the lie that its better to own your own label and own your own masters... The truth is that if most artist had better negotiation skills it WOULD be better to sell, than to hold out. Everything is not for everyone... and everyone does not possess the talent or business acumen to maintain a lifestyle maintaining career in this business.
Your chances of a "sophomore slump" are HUGE in this business, so major labels cannot afford to break everyone off up front in a manner in which they might deem they deserve. They must hold in reserve large amounts of capital. Unlike the Artists who get their advances and go out and spend every dime on foolishness, they must pay those individuals who they deem talented enough to help to run the label and keep it afloat. The problem I see... is that the major labels have lost sight of what it takes to hire those talented individuals with access to the REAL talent. They usually end up hiring that semi-cool square cat you went to school with who you let hang out with you even though he was in all reality a sucka, but was good at organizing things. He ends up going to college to get that degree that is necessary to attain a position with in the major's hierarchy, but when all is said and done he has no access to the real talent within the hoods, and subsequently goes on to present his little brother's best friend AKA Cats like Wiz Kalifa and what not...
C'mon you know that when it comes to real Hip-Hop talent, usually the best talent comes from within hoods that the Majors' hired help have no pass to enter. Peep Game... every time an artist from the hood gets so big that They can not return to the hood without fear of riot, or some stupid MF trying to make a name for himself, then the chain is broken. Puff had an entire label full of great artists his first time out, now he couldn't find his ass with both hands. Same with all of the other Hip-Hop moguls who are too big too actually touch ground in their own hoods and find homegrown talent... That is the ONLY reason to remain small in this game, if you want to continue to have access to an unending supply of homegrown talent. BUT if you do not have a Long term plan to keep those artists satisfied until that day when it is time to cash out.... then you'll end up wasting the most valuable commodity known to man. TIME. Of which you cannot buy a second of with A BILLION Dollars. If you do not get what I'm saying, then obviously you do not possess the business acumen of which I speak, and it would be wise to take a negotiations course at your local college, then sell at the first hint of money from the majors...
Most artists have overblown ideas of what their own capabilities are. Somewhere down the line they bought in to the lie that its better to own your own label and own your own masters... The truth is that if most artist had better negotiation skills it WOULD be better to sell, than to hold out. Everything is not for everyone... and everyone does not possess the talent or business acumen to maintain a lifestyle maintaining career in this business.
Your chances of a "sophomore slump" are HUGE in this business, so major labels cannot afford to break everyone off up front in a manner in which they might deem they deserve. They must hold in reserve large amounts of capital. Unlike the Artists who get their advances and go out and spend every dime on foolishness, they must pay those individuals who they deem talented enough to help to run the label and keep it afloat. The problem I see... is that the major labels have lost sight of what it takes to hire those talented individuals with access to the REAL talent. They usually end up hiring that semi-cool square cat you went to school with who you let hang out with you even though he was in all reality a sucka, but was good at organizing things. He ends up going to college to get that degree that is necessary to attain a position with in the major's hierarchy, but when all is said and done he has no access to the real talent within the hoods, and subsequently goes on to present his little brother's best friend AKA Cats like Wiz Kalifa and what not...
C'mon you know that when it comes to real Hip-Hop talent, usually the best talent comes from within hoods that the Majors' hired help have no pass to enter. Peep Game... every time an artist from the hood gets so big that They can not return to the hood without fear of riot, or some stupid MF trying to make a name for himself, then the chain is broken. Puff had an entire label full of great artists his first time out, now he couldn't find his ass with both hands. Same with all of the other Hip-Hop moguls who are too big too actually touch ground in their own hoods and find homegrown talent... That is the ONLY reason to remain small in this game, if you want to continue to have access to an unending supply of homegrown talent. BUT if you do not have a Long term plan to keep those artists satisfied until that day when it is time to cash out.... then you'll end up wasting the most valuable commodity known to man. TIME. Of which you cannot buy a second of with A BILLION Dollars. If you do not get what I'm saying, then obviously you do not possess the business acumen of which I speak, and it would be wise to take a negotiations course at your local college, then sell at the first hint of money from the majors...
Props:
MIIthasav and MIIthasav