ZIONISM

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HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#41
The human brain is the result of millions of years of evolution.
We do not know if the human brain is the result of millions of years of evolution. This is not a fact that is absolute and etched in stone. It is a theory.

Societal status is not going to change somebody's cognitive mental capabilities
Societal status paves the way for better/more resources to improve ones cognitive mental capabilities. Think about behavioral economics and give me your take on how it impacts cognitive mental capabilities.

just like it's not going to change somebody's eye color.
SEE ABOVE.

Evolution occurs out of necessity. For whatever reasons, to survive in their specific evolutionary climate, Jews had to rely on their brain. Just like Blacks relied on athleticism.
Blacks have had to rely on athleticism in AMERICA during the last 30 to 75 years because they were ostracized from education and politics. How can you logically compare that to jews having to rely on their brain? Jews also relied on the Afrikan slave trade to help boost their finances, and they benefited from this, so should we also factor this in?

What do you make of the disproportionally large amount of Blacks that play professional sports.
Disproportionately large compared to who? While a large amount of blacks may be highly represented in some sports, they are not highly represented in sports such as tennis, golf and hockey, and I believe the LACK of black ownership (as it relates to sports) is more of a concern than the large numbers of black atheletes.

Do you think that if Jews were given the same opportunities as Blacks they would become a presence in the NFL?
Jews already have a presence in the NFL (or any sport) in the form of ownership. 27% of NFL teams are owned by jews. 30% of NBA teams are owned by jews, 13% of baseball teams are owned by jews and in hocky jews own 6% of the teams. Now, can you please tell us the percentage of black ownership, and after doing so can you explain how/why jews are apprx 4-6% of this countries population, yet they own more than blacks which are around 13% of this countries population.
 
Jul 10, 2002
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#44
Anyone who believs the zionest/Jews (not synonmous by the way) run russia is out of their gourd and out of touch with reality...
 
Mar 12, 2005
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#45
JoMoDo said:
Anyone who believs the zionest/Jews (not synonmous by the way) run russia is out of their gourd and out of touch with reality...
Yeah, and if you think most of these European Jews that return to Israel are from the Real 12 Tribes, you're out of touch with reality too!
 
Dec 25, 2003
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#49
Summary

Asian immigrants to the U.S. tend to be already highly educated and from the middle or upper class, for a number of reasons. Thus, they get a completely different start in life in the U.S. compared to other minorities. Although Asians achieve a much greater degree of success in the U.S., the "model minority" stereotype is a myth because Asian-Americans still bump into the glass ceiling, receive lower pay even with the same qualifications, and have higher poverty rates. The image of boat people escaping the ravages of war and communism to take full advantage of American opportunities is also a myth, in that Southeast Asians actually have the lowest success rate of all Asians.



Argument

Supporters of affirmative action argue that discrimination and racism have held down minorities in the U.S., and that affirmative action is needed to correct it. In response, critics ask: "If blacks and Mexicans are being held down by discrimination, then why do Asians come to this country and do so well for themselves?" According to this myth, Asians immigrate to America with little or nothing, often as boat people fleeing communism, and through hard study and work become even more successful than European-Americans. Their success would suggest that the U.S. does not really discriminate against minorities.

Supporters of the "model minority" myth cite many statistics in their favor. For example, among college-bound seniors in 1989, Asian-Americans had a high school grade point average of 3.25, compared to 3.08 for all other students. A study of 7,836 high school students in the San Francisco area found that Asian-Americans spent 40 percent more time doing homework than non-Asians, a fairly common finding. (1)

Asian-Americans also have higher levels of education and income: Educational attainment by ethnic group (1990) (2) Completed 4 years or more of: -----------------------------Ethnic group* High School College-------------------------------------Asian 80.4% 39.9%White 79.1 22.0Black 66.2 11.3Hispanic 50.8 9.2Median family income, by ethnic group (1993) (3)Asian $44,456White 39,300Hispanic 23,654Black 21,542(For brevity's sake, "Asian" in this essay includes Pacific Islanders, and "Hispanic" includes Spanish, Cuban, Puerto-Rican and Mexican Americans.)

The model minority myth

Although it is true that an unusually high percentage of Asian-Americans have enjoyed success in the United States, large parts of the "model minority" stereotype are a myth, and cannot be used in debates on affirmative action.

We should first note that Asian-Americans form one of our smallest minorities:
U.S. Population, by ethnic group (1994) (4)Whites 74.0%Blacks 12.0Hispanics 10.0Asian 3.2When the percentage is this small, many factors can skewer the composition of a minority. Indeed, this turns out to be the case.

Unlike blacks, Asians have migrated to the U.S. voluntarily. The forced capture and transport of Africans means that the U.S. black population is more likely to be a true cross section of African society, whereas Asians, who migrate voluntarily, tend to be self-selected. What type of voluntary immigrant would take residence in the U.S.? Naturally, those who could afford to make the trip. For immigrants from neighboring nations, like Mexico, this is relatively easy, a matter of crossing a land border. Again, this would tend to make the U.S. Hispanic population a true cross section of its original society. Asians, however, must be able to afford a trans-oceanic journey. Not surprisingly, those who could afford such a trip would tend to belong to their homeland's middle and upper classes.

In a thorough study of Houston's Asian American population, Dr. Stephen Klineberg confirmed what sociologists have long known about the advantaged backgrounds of Asian immigrants. "The survey makes it clear that Asians have been relatively successful in Houston primarily due to the educations and middle class backgrounds they brought with them from their countries of origin," Klineberg says. "One of the key messages from the survey is that we have to discard the 'model minority' stereotype that is so often applied to Asians in America. [It overlooks] the fact that a high proportion of Asian immigrants come from an occupational and educational elite." (5)

Furthermore, U.S. immigration policy has long been discriminatory, favoring immigrants with professional skills and higher education. (6) This policy began as early as 1907, when President Theodore Roosevelt and the Japanese government negotiated a "Gentlemen's Agreement" restricting the exit of unskilled Japanese laborers to the United States. (7) Asian immigration has been heavily restricted for most of this century, and has only recently become liberalized.

Other aspects of the myth

The above income chart shows that Asians make the nation's highest median family income. But this statistic doesn't tell the whole story. Asian families have a higher percentage of their members employed in the workforce, so their family income is naturally higher. Also, the U.S. Census does not distinguish between Japanese-American citizens and Japanese residents in the U.S. who maintain their Japanese citizenship. Therefore, this figure includes many highly paid Japanese businessmen in the U.S. on extended business. (8)

Asian-Americans aspiring to job promotion are also familiar with the "glass ceiling." According to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Asian-American men born in the United States are 7 percent to 11 percent less likely to hold managerial jobs than white men with the same educational and experience level. Median income for Asian-Americans with four years of college education is $34,470 a year, compared with $36,130 for whites, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. (9)

Also, many people who buy into the "model minority" myth do not realize that income inequality is severe within the Asian-American community. In 1994, the individual Asian-American poverty rate was 15.3 percent, compared to a national rate of 14.5 percent, and a white rate of 12.2 percent. (10) In fact, the poverty rate for Asians in Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York is nearly twice as high as that of whites. (11) Leaders of the Asian-American community complain that, because of the "model minority" myth, their poverty programs have been drastically underfunded compared to other communities. Thus, needy cries for help among Asian-Americans are going unmet.

Many who subscribe to the "model minority" myth also presume that Asia is a homogeneous society with a shared family and work ethic. Actually, Asia is a land of 27 different countries, sharply delineated by oceans, culture, language, religion and economic systems. This produces wide disparities in the success of Asian immigrants. The following chart shows the percentage of Asian-Americans over twenty-five years of age who have completed four or more years of college and who live below the poverty line:
Asian group Poverty level (12)----------------------------Laotian 67.2%Hmong 65.5Cambodian 46.9Vietnamese 33.5Indonesian 15.2Notice these groups come from Southeast Asia. Many believers in the "model minority" myth claim that Asians have succeeded so well in America because they escaped the ravages of war and communism, and are thus highly motivated to take full advantage of the opportunities offered in America. However, the above chart gives lie to this myth.

It is true that many Asian cultures, like China and Japan, have traditionally placed a very high value on education. However, Asians have historically used education to create an intellectual caste system. Those who proved themselves went on to receive more education, while those who failed were relegated to menial labor. Higher education was not a universal right, but a test of caste membership. As we have shown above, Asian immigrants to the U.S. tend to come from the middle and upper classes.

Finally, there are many who believe that Asians excel because they have the highest IQs in the world. But there is no evidence to support this assertion. One study, conducted by Harold Stevenson, tested the IQs of children in Japan, China and America, carefully matching them for socioeconomic status and demographic variables. He found no differences in IQ. (13) Another set of studies conducted by Richard Lynn supposedly found a higher IQ in Asians, but his research has been heavily criticized on methodological grounds -- among other problems, his Asian test group was tiny and unrepresentative of the population at large. (14)

In the U.S. during the early 1900s, Asians -- like Jews -- scored much lower on IQ tests than native whites. Their tests scores improved over time as highly educated immigrants continued arriving in the U.S., and their social positions improved. (15)

Implications for affirmative action

Given the above information, it is difficult to hold Asians up as members of a model minority who have pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. Asian immigrants to the U.S. tend to be more educated and affluent than the compatriots they leave behind. They generally have not suffered extreme poverty, racism, legal discrimination or hateful prejudice within their own nations. Compare this to black Americans, who have struggled with these problems for hundreds of years. The two groups have experienced completely different starts in the U.S., and cannot be compared to each other.

The model minority myth does a disservice to Asian-Americans, because it suggests they do not need, nor could benefit from, affirmative action. As we have seen, the glass ceiling exists for this minority as well, not to mention the poverty and income inequality that afflict all other groups of Americans. Unfortunately, the myth blinds others to these realities.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
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www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#50
Compared to who? Disproportionate means propotions of all other people.
Actually, in many stats and instances it doesn't, and I'd like to know where you are getting your definition from. When one uses disproportionate, one does not have to use the word to compare and contrast "all other races". A simple example of this is when you compare white welfare recipients to black welfare recipients, look at the population and find out the smaller group is disproportinate compared to their own population and the other group.

Hes obviously talking about the sports you cite in your paragraph immediately following the one quoted above, NFL, baseball and most likey basketball which all are biased towards those with explosive speed and strength
The man said "SPORTS", and it is not "obvious" that he meant any particular sport because he used a general term. No one said he wasn't talking about "sports", but I am not going to put words in his mouth which is why I asked him the question. Blacks did not start off as a majority in the sports listed, and it wasn't until the last 30 or so years that they became the majority (in some). Also, I wouldn't say that the sports you mentioned are "biased towards those with explosive speed and strength". I would say they have a PREFERENCE for it, and yes there IS difference.

Please tell me you are not denying black people are better runners when the geneology for olympic winning sprinters and marathon runners can be traced to two distinct regions in africa.
First off, you don't even tell us who these runners are or if they are american. If these runners are not american citizens you're actually off topic because we are talking about african american atheletes in the united states. If you are talking about runners who are american citizens I see several problems with your statement. Problem one, you only make references to blacks in two sports, and problem two, all blacks do not trace to two distinct regions in Afrika. However, the REAL problem lies in your biased sample and begging the question arguments. Also, why are you introducing a topic that has very little importance? If you think this red-herring is going to deter me or take away from the topic you are incorrect.

And by presence in the NFL he obviously means playing the sport. This can be implied from...well from his entire argument.
And this was answered in two parts of my previous post.

Blacks have had to rely on athleticism in AMERICA during the last 30 to 75 years because they were ostracized from education and politics. How can you logically compare that to jews having to rely on their brain? Jews also relied on the Afrikan slave trade to help boost their finances, and they benefited from this, so should we also factor this in?

Jews already have a presence in the NFL (or any sport) in the form of ownership.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#51
WHITE DEVIL said:
Summary

Asian immigrants to the U.S. tend to be already highly educated and from the middle or upper class, for a number of reasons. Thus, they get a completely different start in life in the U.S. compared to other minorities. Although Asians achieve a much greater degree of success in the U.S., the "model minority" stereotype is a myth because Asian-Americans still bump into the glass ceiling, receive lower pay even with the same qualifications, and have higher poverty rates. The image of boat people escaping the ravages of war and communism to take full advantage of American opportunities is also a myth, in that Southeast Asians actually have the lowest success rate of all Asians.



Argument

Supporters of affirmative action argue that discrimination and racism have held down minorities in the U.S., and that affirmative action is needed to correct it. In response, critics ask: "If blacks and Mexicans are being held down by discrimination, then why do Asians come to this country and do so well for themselves?" According to this myth, Asians immigrate to America with little or nothing, often as boat people fleeing communism, and through hard study and work become even more successful than European-Americans. Their success would suggest that the U.S. does not really discriminate against minorities.

Supporters of the "model minority" myth cite many statistics in their favor. For example, among college-bound seniors in 1989, Asian-Americans had a high school grade point average of 3.25, compared to 3.08 for all other students. A study of 7,836 high school students in the San Francisco area found that Asian-Americans spent 40 percent more time doing homework than non-Asians, a fairly common finding. (1)

Asian-Americans also have higher levels of education and income: Educational attainment by ethnic group (1990) (2) Completed 4 years or more of: -----------------------------Ethnic group* High School College-------------------------------------Asian 80.4% 39.9%White 79.1 22.0Black 66.2 11.3Hispanic 50.8 9.2Median family income, by ethnic group (1993) (3)Asian $44,456White 39,300Hispanic 23,654Black 21,542(For brevity's sake, "Asian" in this essay includes Pacific Islanders, and "Hispanic" includes Spanish, Cuban, Puerto-Rican and Mexican Americans.)

The model minority myth

Although it is true that an unusually high percentage of Asian-Americans have enjoyed success in the United States, large parts of the "model minority" stereotype are a myth, and cannot be used in debates on affirmative action.

We should first note that Asian-Americans form one of our smallest minorities:
U.S. Population, by ethnic group (1994) (4)Whites 74.0%Blacks 12.0Hispanics 10.0Asian 3.2When the percentage is this small, many factors can skewer the composition of a minority. Indeed, this turns out to be the case.

Unlike blacks, Asians have migrated to the U.S. voluntarily. The forced capture and transport of Africans means that the U.S. black population is more likely to be a true cross section of African society, whereas Asians, who migrate voluntarily, tend to be self-selected. What type of voluntary immigrant would take residence in the U.S.? Naturally, those who could afford to make the trip. For immigrants from neighboring nations, like Mexico, this is relatively easy, a matter of crossing a land border. Again, this would tend to make the U.S. Hispanic population a true cross section of its original society. Asians, however, must be able to afford a trans-oceanic journey. Not surprisingly, those who could afford such a trip would tend to belong to their homeland's middle and upper classes.

In a thorough study of Houston's Asian American population, Dr. Stephen Klineberg confirmed what sociologists have long known about the advantaged backgrounds of Asian immigrants. "The survey makes it clear that Asians have been relatively successful in Houston primarily due to the educations and middle class backgrounds they brought with them from their countries of origin," Klineberg says. "One of the key messages from the survey is that we have to discard the 'model minority' stereotype that is so often applied to Asians in America. [It overlooks] the fact that a high proportion of Asian immigrants come from an occupational and educational elite." (5)

Furthermore, U.S. immigration policy has long been discriminatory, favoring immigrants with professional skills and higher education. (6) This policy began as early as 1907, when President Theodore Roosevelt and the Japanese government negotiated a "Gentlemen's Agreement" restricting the exit of unskilled Japanese laborers to the United States. (7) Asian immigration has been heavily restricted for most of this century, and has only recently become liberalized.

Other aspects of the myth

The above income chart shows that Asians make the nation's highest median family income. But this statistic doesn't tell the whole story. Asian families have a higher percentage of their members employed in the workforce, so their family income is naturally higher. Also, the U.S. Census does not distinguish between Japanese-American citizens and Japanese residents in the U.S. who maintain their Japanese citizenship. Therefore, this figure includes many highly paid Japanese businessmen in the U.S. on extended business. (8)

Asian-Americans aspiring to job promotion are also familiar with the "glass ceiling." According to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Asian-American men born in the United States are 7 percent to 11 percent less likely to hold managerial jobs than white men with the same educational and experience level. Median income for Asian-Americans with four years of college education is $34,470 a year, compared with $36,130 for whites, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. (9)

Also, many people who buy into the "model minority" myth do not realize that income inequality is severe within the Asian-American community. In 1994, the individual Asian-American poverty rate was 15.3 percent, compared to a national rate of 14.5 percent, and a white rate of 12.2 percent. (10) In fact, the poverty rate for Asians in Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York is nearly twice as high as that of whites. (11) Leaders of the Asian-American community complain that, because of the "model minority" myth, their poverty programs have been drastically underfunded compared to other communities. Thus, needy cries for help among Asian-Americans are going unmet.

Many who subscribe to the "model minority" myth also presume that Asia is a homogeneous society with a shared family and work ethic. Actually, Asia is a land of 27 different countries, sharply delineated by oceans, culture, language, religion and economic systems. This produces wide disparities in the success of Asian immigrants. The following chart shows the percentage of Asian-Americans over twenty-five years of age who have completed four or more years of college and who live below the poverty line:
Asian group Poverty level (12)----------------------------Laotian 67.2%Hmong 65.5Cambodian 46.9Vietnamese 33.5Indonesian 15.2Notice these groups come from Southeast Asia. Many believers in the "model minority" myth claim that Asians have succeeded so well in America because they escaped the ravages of war and communism, and are thus highly motivated to take full advantage of the opportunities offered in America. However, the above chart gives lie to this myth.

It is true that many Asian cultures, like China and Japan, have traditionally placed a very high value on education. However, Asians have historically used education to create an intellectual caste system. Those who proved themselves went on to receive more education, while those who failed were relegated to menial labor. Higher education was not a universal right, but a test of caste membership. As we have shown above, Asian immigrants to the U.S. tend to come from the middle and upper classes.

Finally, there are many who believe that Asians excel because they have the highest IQs in the world. But there is no evidence to support this assertion. One study, conducted by Harold Stevenson, tested the IQs of children in Japan, China and America, carefully matching them for socioeconomic status and demographic variables. He found no differences in IQ. (13) Another set of studies conducted by Richard Lynn supposedly found a higher IQ in Asians, but his research has been heavily criticized on methodological grounds -- among other problems, his Asian test group was tiny and unrepresentative of the population at large. (14)

In the U.S. during the early 1900s, Asians -- like Jews -- scored much lower on IQ tests than native whites. Their tests scores improved over time as highly educated immigrants continued arriving in the U.S., and their social positions improved. (15)

Implications for affirmative action

Given the above information, it is difficult to hold Asians up as members of a model minority who have pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. Asian immigrants to the U.S. tend to be more educated and affluent than the compatriots they leave behind. They generally have not suffered extreme poverty, racism, legal discrimination or hateful prejudice within their own nations. Compare this to black Americans, who have struggled with these problems for hundreds of years. The two groups have experienced completely different starts in the U.S., and cannot be compared to each other.

The model minority myth does a disservice to Asian-Americans, because it suggests they do not need, nor could benefit from, affirmative action. As we have seen, the glass ceiling exists for this minority as well, not to mention the poverty and income inequality that afflict all other groups of Americans. Unfortunately, the myth blinds others to these realities.
You actually helped prove my point. Good job!!

EDIT: And next time you are going to give me a cut & paste job at least cite the source. Cut & paste arguments without a source leaves much to be desired, especially when you fail to give your own input. However, in the next reply I'll show you how your evidence validates what I'm saying.
 

HERESY

THE HIDDEN HAND...
Apr 25, 2002
18,326
11,459
113
www.godscalamity.com
www.godscalamity.com
#52
Well youve certainly cemented your posistion as more concerned with semantics than in discussing the issues.
I am discussing the issue, in fact, I'm waiting for the man to reply. It is YOU who is more concerned with semantics instead of the issues which is why you opened your post with, "Compared to who? Disproportionate means propotions of all other people" and then proceeded to bore us all with some half page diatribe babbling on about God knows what--instead of letting the man answer for himself.

"In many stats and instances it doesnt...look at page 562 paragraph three line 4 section 7 code B of the bible".
Oh poor baby!!!! "He has to resort to attacking me personally and brining up what he percieves to be my religious or spiritual views instead of sticking to the topic at hand." :Looks at the health care nurse:"Oh its ok, I'll wipe the drool and snot from his nose....oh no...don't worry about it. I'll use his shirt. Thanks ma'am."



Your example doesnt work because he originally only made the claim there is a disproportionately large amount of blacks in prof sports PERIOD.
Which is why I asked compared to who? Compared to black ownership? Compared to Jews? Compared to whites? Compared to Asians? Also, without him even giving a credible or valid number to validate his claim, who is to say blacks are disproportionately larger? However, in YOUR case you said, "Disproportionate means propotions of all other people", and I am proving this is NOT the case. Please, refer to my reference to welfare, or better yet, let us talk about the number of black athletes being disproportionately larger than black ownership, executive and managerial positions. Ah, do you see that? Do you see how we have used the word, but how we are not applying it to "all people"?

And what pray tell is disproportion too? ding ding, everybody else.
Again, this is not accurate, please consult a dictionary.

And from this, heresy, we can conclude that the sports he is talking about are the one with a disproportionately large amount of black people compared to the rest of the people-->NFL, BASEBALL, NBA
Again, I refer to his original statement which was, "What do you make of the disproportionally large amount of Blacks that play professional sports."

(emphasis mine)

He did NOT limit his question to NFL, MLB and NBA. He said PROFESSIONAL SPORTS. PROFESSIONAL SPORTS = A sport where athletes are paid for playing/performance. Professional sports include NASCAR, HOCKEY, TENNIS, BOWLING, SWIMMING, MARATHON RUNNING, TRACK & FIELD, GYMNASTICS, BIKING, BOXING, MMA, MOTOR CYCLE RACING, ETC. Professional sports is not limited to NFL,NBA and MLB, and if he wanted to limit it he should have made the distinction. He didn't. CASE CLOSED. :dead:

Dont give me this bullshit, "its not obvious" then why are those the exact sports you talk about.
They are not the "exact sports" I talked about when the ONLY SPECIFIC sport he asked me about was the NFL. The sports I talked about were BASEBALL, FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL and HOCKEY. They are the sports I talked about because I chose to show how jews have a LARGER INFLUENCE over some sports in the form of OWNERSHIP and that THIS is where they are dominant and where dominance matters the most. Did he mention runners and sprinters like you did? No, yet you mentioned them. Please, pick up a book on critical analysis, you need it.

Gives preference to, you are right on this one, i guess i should have said biased against non explosive athletes, sorry.
N.P.

Off topic?!?! Very little importance?!?! the title of this thread is zionism lol.
Yes, it is zionism, and we are talking about its influence. If you don't see what you introduced as off topic I'll break it down for you in the form of questions:

1. I have shown the jewish influence in sports, can you please tell me how your assumption that, "black people are better runners when the geneology for olympic winning sprinters and marathon runners can be traced to two distinct regions in africa" is relevant to zionism?

2. Can you please tell us who these runners are or if they are american?

3. Can you explain how your example is not a biased sample or begging the question fallacy?