WHO'S AT FAULT?
- Thread starter EDJ
- Start date
@DAYTON
Easy to say when the MAJORITY...the GREAT majority of your race was not put in your same position. For every ONE story there is of white people like you having a no-frills life, there is TEN of a black man living the same.
Should we blame Jews for the Holocaust? Of course not. So how much of THAT blame goes to them? 30%? 3%?
OK...should we blame Blacks for slavery? Of course not. So how much of THAT blame goes to them? 20%? 10%?
Now, in those 400 years of degradation and humiliation (and only 40 years...FOURTY YEARS of being considered equal), you REALLY think the percentage has gone down to 0%, as far as the white man's blame for current conditions?
You are living in a fantasy world.
Easy to say when the MAJORITY...the GREAT majority of your race was not put in your same position. For every ONE story there is of white people like you having a no-frills life, there is TEN of a black man living the same.
Should we blame Jews for the Holocaust? Of course not. So how much of THAT blame goes to them? 30%? 3%?
OK...should we blame Blacks for slavery? Of course not. So how much of THAT blame goes to them? 20%? 10%?
Now, in those 400 years of degradation and humiliation (and only 40 years...FOURTY YEARS of being considered equal), you REALLY think the percentage has gone down to 0%, as far as the white man's blame for current conditions?
You are living in a fantasy world.
I assume you're talking about Bill Cosby? 90% of Bill Cosby's rants are about the English language, and as you can see from the way i talk on here, i am a VERY strong proponent of bi-/tri-/polylinguism and word choice. Again...why your distortion?
Read "Roots", you ignorant fucktard.
Who sold Manhattan? For beads? With guns to their head?
Read "Roots", you ignorant fucktard.
Who sold Manhattan? For beads? With guns to their head?
Then, if you would be so kind, point me to an instance where i supported a Republican claim that black america should collectively shut up, get over it, and simply overcome all odds and get better with no support whatsoever
Guilt by association...is that your plan now, friend? Are you turning into a Fascist, like those you purport to despise?
Guilt by association...is that your plan now, friend? Are you turning into a Fascist, like those you purport to despise?
I can definitely feel that. I'm the first in my family NOT to have children before the age of 18, and the first to go to college (if you don't count my uncle).
I made a choice and a conscious effort not to go in that direction.
If you truly want to overcome something you can. The problem is, everybody doesn't think that way. So until, we as a society can collectively make an effort to make things better, it's gonna be the same thing repeating like it has been for years.
I made a choice and a conscious effort not to go in that direction.
If you truly want to overcome something you can. The problem is, everybody doesn't think that way. So until, we as a society can collectively make an effort to make things better, it's gonna be the same thing repeating like it has been for years.
From another thread in this forum [my 2 cents]:
Because it is a reality. Black people are both the opressed and the opressor. They have been opressed by white people both directly; slavery, segregation, police brutality -- and indirectly; white people refusing to acknowledge problems in the black community. They are the opressors because they opress each other. The type of influence and business ethics that are taught by one black man to another are poisonous. We have both talked about black people investing into black businesses, something that is almost abscent in the black community. Why? Because black people do not understand long term economics and business practices. They want money right the fuck now, and rapping about selling drugs and killing cops; shooting a rock through a hole; tap dancing in an endzone; and saying funny things on film are the only sources of immediate capital. Now, I know not many people are going to agree with what I have to say next, but I am going to speak on what I feel. A lot of black people, especially those who are successful, are very selfish. These are the people that can make a difference. They can make a difference by investing and building, but they don't, and we both know why. Because they are not willing to sacrifice their financial success for the weel being of their anscestors. That is how you raise a race of humans to another class is through long term thinking and planning because lets face it, reparations are not going to be paid. Now I'm not saying only black people are guilty of this, everyone is, but emphasis needs to be placed on these black people because they have the future in the grasp of their hands, but they choose to throw it all away at the expense of fast cars and flashy jewelry. You have to think long term because things can not be fixed over night.
The question "Who is responsible..." will *ALWAYS* end up in a stalemate for those very reasons. Black people want reparations, but have only a skin color to ask for them. But to answer your questions:
1. Because they are not able to link crimes by white people to the starvation of black people. You have three sides to the black struggle; you have the blacks that are opressed, the corporate whites who are opressing them, and the middle/lower class whites who are basically bystanders. Corporate whites are not going to listen to blacks, either because they are unheard or they are ignored, and they definatley arn't going to take the initiative themselves. So that leaves your random shoulder shrugging white person to take a stand. Unfortunatley, most of these white people do not see a struggle because corporate America has woven a blanket over their eyes, and shelved the black struggle in a basement where no middle class white man can see it. In other words, most white people do not know of any black problems aside from the Rodney Kings that are put on television. They hear it when they walk the streets, but what are words without witness.
2. Black problems should be a priority, But it is not white people who owe reparations, something a lot of black people fail to realize. If a ghetto is what remains of slavery, then a CEO is what remains of a slave owner. So if you were to ask me who should pay these reparations, I would say the government *and* corporate America, because they are the remains of those who drove Africans into this country. So the answer to your question is not so simple, and this is where generalizations become a problem. If you have 100 middle class white people for every opressing CEO in America, is it safe to say that white people are the opressors? No, it isn't. And it would be a very vague assertion to think that way.
I don't think he was saying that black people should speak "proper" english, but that they should know how to, and they should. If this is "White America", then how can you be successful in it without obiding by the standards set by the white people who run and control it. African Americans combined with Hispanics make up for less then 2% of executives in the world of business. So for right now, I want you to imagine that at least 95% of all executive positions are filled by white people. With this 95%, there are sets of standards by which they hire; clean cut, educated, good/related work expierence, determination, attitude, appearance etc. Now take a black kid from the "ghetto" and match him up to what a white CEO expects from their new hires. Now take a kid from the suburbs who speaks the same "proper" english as they do... am I making any sense to you? Are these standards the "white way" to be? It all depends on how you look at it. This professionalism by which the term refers to was set by white people, the word itself was standardized by white people, and more importantly, it is practiced by white people. So you may think you have to be "white" in order to work with these people, but really you only have to practice the same professionalism that they do. I too have to be someone else just to get a job and support myself. I don't like the standards, but I do what I have to in order to eat. It should be the same way for every black, brown, and yellow person in this country. No one is asking you to change who you are as a person, just to act professional.
It's money dog. If you could stick a frog up your ass, and in turn shit flawless diamonds, are you telling me you wouldn't do it? White CEO's profiting from black culture is nothing compared to a white CEO getting paid off of infecting humans with cancer. Think about it.
Because it is a reality. Black people are both the opressed and the opressor. They have been opressed by white people both directly; slavery, segregation, police brutality -- and indirectly; white people refusing to acknowledge problems in the black community. They are the opressors because they opress each other. The type of influence and business ethics that are taught by one black man to another are poisonous. We have both talked about black people investing into black businesses, something that is almost abscent in the black community. Why? Because black people do not understand long term economics and business practices. They want money right the fuck now, and rapping about selling drugs and killing cops; shooting a rock through a hole; tap dancing in an endzone; and saying funny things on film are the only sources of immediate capital. Now, I know not many people are going to agree with what I have to say next, but I am going to speak on what I feel. A lot of black people, especially those who are successful, are very selfish. These are the people that can make a difference. They can make a difference by investing and building, but they don't, and we both know why. Because they are not willing to sacrifice their financial success for the weel being of their anscestors. That is how you raise a race of humans to another class is through long term thinking and planning because lets face it, reparations are not going to be paid. Now I'm not saying only black people are guilty of this, everyone is, but emphasis needs to be placed on these black people because they have the future in the grasp of their hands, but they choose to throw it all away at the expense of fast cars and flashy jewelry. You have to think long term because things can not be fixed over night.
The question "Who is responsible..." will *ALWAYS* end up in a stalemate for those very reasons. Black people want reparations, but have only a skin color to ask for them. But to answer your questions:
1. Because they are not able to link crimes by white people to the starvation of black people. You have three sides to the black struggle; you have the blacks that are opressed, the corporate whites who are opressing them, and the middle/lower class whites who are basically bystanders. Corporate whites are not going to listen to blacks, either because they are unheard or they are ignored, and they definatley arn't going to take the initiative themselves. So that leaves your random shoulder shrugging white person to take a stand. Unfortunatley, most of these white people do not see a struggle because corporate America has woven a blanket over their eyes, and shelved the black struggle in a basement where no middle class white man can see it. In other words, most white people do not know of any black problems aside from the Rodney Kings that are put on television. They hear it when they walk the streets, but what are words without witness.
2. Black problems should be a priority, But it is not white people who owe reparations, something a lot of black people fail to realize. If a ghetto is what remains of slavery, then a CEO is what remains of a slave owner. So if you were to ask me who should pay these reparations, I would say the government *and* corporate America, because they are the remains of those who drove Africans into this country. So the answer to your question is not so simple, and this is where generalizations become a problem. If you have 100 middle class white people for every opressing CEO in America, is it safe to say that white people are the opressors? No, it isn't. And it would be a very vague assertion to think that way.
I don't think he was saying that black people should speak "proper" english, but that they should know how to, and they should. If this is "White America", then how can you be successful in it without obiding by the standards set by the white people who run and control it. African Americans combined with Hispanics make up for less then 2% of executives in the world of business. So for right now, I want you to imagine that at least 95% of all executive positions are filled by white people. With this 95%, there are sets of standards by which they hire; clean cut, educated, good/related work expierence, determination, attitude, appearance etc. Now take a black kid from the "ghetto" and match him up to what a white CEO expects from their new hires. Now take a kid from the suburbs who speaks the same "proper" english as they do... am I making any sense to you? Are these standards the "white way" to be? It all depends on how you look at it. This professionalism by which the term refers to was set by white people, the word itself was standardized by white people, and more importantly, it is practiced by white people. So you may think you have to be "white" in order to work with these people, but really you only have to practice the same professionalism that they do. I too have to be someone else just to get a job and support myself. I don't like the standards, but I do what I have to in order to eat. It should be the same way for every black, brown, and yellow person in this country. No one is asking you to change who you are as a person, just to act professional.
ANOTHER THING THAT STRIKES ME IS HOW WHITE AMERICA CAN LOOK DOWN ON BROKEN ENGLISH/SLANG/EBONICS/WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, YET MAKE ***BILLIONS*** FROM IT EACH YEAR...............
Why? Where does this thinking come into play with the black community?
And where exactly will they learn this "proper english"? In school?
So basically, after being in 12 years of schooling that is underfunded, underinstructed, etc then probably barely making it in college because you don't really have the proper skills to keep up because of the schools you went to growing up, your expected to speak and "act" like those who weren't in the same learning environment or environment PERIOD that you were in. Forget that you can do the work, you don't speak like "Tyler". And even if you do turn into this person you are not, you will never be respected regardless and how far will you really make it anyway, cause those who are fake can only keep the facade going for so long.
I'm not raggin on what your saying, don't take it as that cause I'm just kind ranting on this whole subject and your reply happened to be the last one I saw, I just feel like there is some blame in places other than the black community. It easy to say "just get up and do something if you don't like it" but its easier said than done in a lot of instances where doors are shut in the first place. Who is responsible? Those who make decisions on where funding goes within different communities, those in control of government money issuance who have special interests in the "middle and upper-class" communities that block funding to innercity low income families, the folks who distribute the monies to school and do it based on location (why do the schools in the suburbs have central heat and air and the innercity school don't have any heat and air??), people who cut budgets in communities who genuinely are trying to revitalize and bring up the people that live in them. But lets build more prisons, lets cut education to "inner city schools first", and make sure folks have a nice cozy prison to stay in, with BOOKS that are up to date, everything and more than they could have out on the street. When in actuality, if they would invest in certain communites a little bit more, the jails wouldn't be so over crowded.
Should it be black folks who come out and say "HEY I'm going to open up this business in my community" ? Right now in the neighborhood I grew up in, a big ass "revitilization" is in progress, with a black ex-NBA basketball player at the helm who went to school and grew up there. He is "giving back to the community" like what has been mentioned in this thread, but is he really? The businesses he is moving in are CORPORATE WHITE-OWNED business. Starbucks, etc. But brotha man who owns a coffee shop down the way is getting ready to have to close down cause he can't compete. Business are moving in now and it "looks" good and bring in the "integration" that the city wants (the neighborhood is a predominiately black neighborhood) so finally because there is a starbucks, etc, the community is now complete. LOL The bamboozling continues even within the black community itself. Terrible.
thats all
And where exactly will they learn this "proper english"? In school?
So basically, after being in 12 years of schooling that is underfunded, underinstructed, etc then probably barely making it in college because you don't really have the proper skills to keep up because of the schools you went to growing up, your expected to speak and "act" like those who weren't in the same learning environment or environment PERIOD that you were in. Forget that you can do the work, you don't speak like "Tyler". And even if you do turn into this person you are not, you will never be respected regardless and how far will you really make it anyway, cause those who are fake can only keep the facade going for so long.
I'm not raggin on what your saying, don't take it as that cause I'm just kind ranting on this whole subject and your reply happened to be the last one I saw, I just feel like there is some blame in places other than the black community. It easy to say "just get up and do something if you don't like it" but its easier said than done in a lot of instances where doors are shut in the first place. Who is responsible? Those who make decisions on where funding goes within different communities, those in control of government money issuance who have special interests in the "middle and upper-class" communities that block funding to innercity low income families, the folks who distribute the monies to school and do it based on location (why do the schools in the suburbs have central heat and air and the innercity school don't have any heat and air??), people who cut budgets in communities who genuinely are trying to revitalize and bring up the people that live in them. But lets build more prisons, lets cut education to "inner city schools first", and make sure folks have a nice cozy prison to stay in, with BOOKS that are up to date, everything and more than they could have out on the street. When in actuality, if they would invest in certain communites a little bit more, the jails wouldn't be so over crowded.
Should it be black folks who come out and say "HEY I'm going to open up this business in my community" ? Right now in the neighborhood I grew up in, a big ass "revitilization" is in progress, with a black ex-NBA basketball player at the helm who went to school and grew up there. He is "giving back to the community" like what has been mentioned in this thread, but is he really? The businesses he is moving in are CORPORATE WHITE-OWNED business. Starbucks, etc. But brotha man who owns a coffee shop down the way is getting ready to have to close down cause he can't compete. Business are moving in now and it "looks" good and bring in the "integration" that the city wants (the neighborhood is a predominiately black neighborhood) so finally because there is a starbucks, etc, the community is now complete. LOL The bamboozling continues even within the black community itself. Terrible.
thats all
