I'm not talking about losing folks.. I'm talking about taking clean punches to the head and body for 9rds or more when i say a beating. Cotto took and beating from Stone-Hands, not just a loss, but a beating he is not the same fighter that fought Mosley after that fight. If you watch the Vargas vs Tito fight Vargas is never the same after that. Tito did the same thing to David Reid. B-Hop put a beating on both Taylor and Pavlik they are not the same fighters now both mentally and physically. Pac-Man has made a good name for himself in the last 4 years. Pac-Man fought both Berrara and Morales after they where both shot fighters. After they both went to war with eachother two times and countless others. Pac-man has been marketed great by Arum. He has some good names on his resume, but I just don't see him having the skill-set to beat Mayweather. A few more reasons are the fact that he got tired in the 9th round against Cotto (watch the fight again on youtube his mouth is open till they stopped it). Pac-Man fights like a young Mosley but he just throws more punches. But if you look at the Marquez and Cotto fights he has problems with movement. Just like Mosley he will get taken to school. Please answer my question someone. WHO HAS PAC-MAN FOUGHT THAT HAS HAND SPEED AND FOOT WORK? Now the answer to that question is the reason why he will get beat up by Mayweather. I'm still waiting on the answer folks. Or are we still discrediting all of Mayweather's 41-0 work.
Who should Manny Pacquiao fight (since floyd doesn't want none)?
- Thread starter 2-0-Sixx
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I stopped reading when you said that Pacquiao got tired in the 9th round.
Pacquiao threw 92 punches in the 9th round of the Cotto fight. Which was the most he threw in the entire fight.
I'm not sure what someone answering your question will do exactly. Styles make fights, and simply saying "someone with hand speed and footwork" will beat Pacquiao is just dumb.
Let me ask you this: Who has Mayweather fought who has the skills and attributes that Manny has?
Pacquiao threw 92 punches in the 9th round of the Cotto fight. Which was the most he threw in the entire fight.
I'm not sure what someone answering your question will do exactly. Styles make fights, and simply saying "someone with hand speed and footwork" will beat Pacquiao is just dumb.
Let me ask you this: Who has Mayweather fought who has the skills and attributes that Manny has?
Pacman was not tired against cotto. He showed some frustration because Cotto was on his bicycle running away and was unwilling to trade and there were a few moments you could tell pac was getting bored with chasing him, but he certainly wasn't tired. Against clottey he threw 1200 punches, against david diaz he threw 900 punches and the fight ended in the 9th round. He has some of the best stamina in the game right now.
Again, your logic is faulty man. Just because Pac hasn't fought anyone with the handspeed & footwork of Floyd doesn't mean he'd lose. Likewise, just because Floyd has never fought anyone who fights like pac and has the same skills as pac doesn't mean he'd lose.
Yet again, going back to my Duran-Sugar Ray Leonard example, Duran NEVER fought anyone as fast and as talented as Leonard before in his career. Yet Duran won when they first met.
Pac & Floyd are two of the best fighters in the world. Both are extremely talented. Both are future hall of famers & all time greats. Both are extremely different both inside the ring and outside. The only way to find out who will win is if they fight. Everyone can have their opinions but nothing means anything until they actually fight.
Again, your logic is faulty man. Just because Pac hasn't fought anyone with the handspeed & footwork of Floyd doesn't mean he'd lose. Likewise, just because Floyd has never fought anyone who fights like pac and has the same skills as pac doesn't mean he'd lose.
Yet again, going back to my Duran-Sugar Ray Leonard example, Duran NEVER fought anyone as fast and as talented as Leonard before in his career. Yet Duran won when they first met.
Pac & Floyd are two of the best fighters in the world. Both are extremely talented. Both are future hall of famers & all time greats. Both are extremely different both inside the ring and outside. The only way to find out who will win is if they fight. Everyone can have their opinions but nothing means anything until they actually fight.
So you're just going to answer my question by asking me your own question? Go watch the fight if you think I'm lying about his mouth being open. It's funny to me how you have not answered my question yet? You say styles make fights right? Well I'm here to tell you that Pac-Man has fought against only one style of fighter no defense come forward style. Now please tell me I'm lying and answer my question. If you read my last post, you would have my answer as to why i think Money will won. I'm waiting on you to tell me your views.. 2-0-Sixx help your peoples out and answer for him..
Bobby Chacon took a shit kicking (over 14 rounds) against Boza Edwards in his first came and rebounded his career to come back and even beat Boza Edwards in a rematch. He also took plenty of solid shots against Arguello only to come back and string together some wins.
The Wladimir examples should count in this as well .. as he took solid shots to the head, from heavyweights, and suffered multiple knockdowns. I'm not saying those type of fights can't change a fighter, they absolutely can. I'm saying they always don't and it's hard to claim a fighter as damaged goods before seeing him prove himself as such in the ring.
The Wladimir examples should count in this as well .. as he took solid shots to the head, from heavyweights, and suffered multiple knockdowns. I'm not saying those type of fights can't change a fighter, they absolutely can. I'm saying they always don't and it's hard to claim a fighter as damaged goods before seeing him prove himself as such in the ring.
Bigface makes a good point.... but think of it like this. Arum should be setting Pacman up to fight someone that has real boxing skills so just incase the Mayweater/Pacman fight happens, Pacman will be better prepared.
He's setting Pacman up to fail against Mayweather because Margarito is the exact opposite of Mayweather. Margarito is too easy to hit, has very slow footwork, and Margarito couldn't counter punch to save his life. So after Pacman beats up on Margarito, he's going to have a very difficult time against Mayweather and that's going to be Arum's fault for putting him there against someone sorry like Margarito.
He's setting Pacman up to fail against Mayweather because Margarito is the exact opposite of Mayweather. Margarito is too easy to hit, has very slow footwork, and Margarito couldn't counter punch to save his life. So after Pacman beats up on Margarito, he's going to have a very difficult time against Mayweather and that's going to be Arum's fault for putting him there against someone sorry like Margarito.
No, I'm saying. Your question is pointless, and has absolutely 0 effect on how the fight would play out.
LOL. Great analysis. A mouth being open? Did you read the statistic that I posted? He threw more punches in the round you said he gassed in, than any other round in the fight. And 92 punches in the 9th round is a pretty good indicator that someone has a fairly deep gas tank, IMO.
Your question is irrelevant. Again, it doesn't mean shit.
My view is that I have no idea how the fight will play out. That's what makes the fight intriguing.
Everyone can have their opinion on how they THINK the fight will play out, but does that have any relation to reality? NO. That's my point. You saying that "Manny hasn't faced anyone with footwork and handspeed", therefore he loses, is pretty stupid.
Hypothetical shit is just that, hypothetical. There is a reason why they fight the fights!
LOL. Great analysis. A mouth being open? Did you read the statistic that I posted? He threw more punches in the round you said he gassed in, than any other round in the fight. And 92 punches in the 9th round is a pretty good indicator that someone has a fairly deep gas tank, IMO.
Your question is irrelevant. Again, it doesn't mean shit.
My view is that I have no idea how the fight will play out. That's what makes the fight intriguing.
Everyone can have their opinion on how they THINK the fight will play out, but does that have any relation to reality? NO. That's my point. You saying that "Manny hasn't faced anyone with footwork and handspeed", therefore he loses, is pretty stupid.
Hypothetical shit is just that, hypothetical. There is a reason why they fight the fights!
Morebass you pick choose what you want to answer. My point is this to the Pac-Man fans. If Pac-Man has not fought anyone in his whole career with hand speed and foot work. How is he going to look against someone who is going to be able to hit him and get out of the way of his counter shots. His face was marked up by Cottley for god sake. Cottley threw 300 punches the whole fight and he had trouble hitting Cottley clean. Now are you telling me that Cottley has better defense then Money? I'm basing my views on the fights I watch. I see Mayweather giving him a boxing lesson and making about $75-100 million doing it because of the build up to the fight. People really hate Mayweather and they want to see him get KOed. Morebass you know your stuff keep it coming. Just miss me with the kiddie comments and we cool.. lol
Your acting like pac has never fought anyone with fast hands. Listen, just because Pac hasn't fought anyone AS FAST as floyd, doesn't mean he wont know what to do in the ring. Further, Pac is actually faster than floyd when it comes to hand-speed.
This means very little. He was headbutted in the 3rd or 4th round that caused the darkened eye for one, two because Clottey was so inactive pac was forced to throw a shitload of punches which left himself more open. He would not fight Floyd the same way.
Further, judging a guy's face doesn't always tell the story. I mean Floyd mayweather was bleeding against Emmanuel Augustus. What does that say about Floyd?
Who has EVER had an easy time hitting Clottey clean? He has that shell defense, to the extreme. Cotto barely hit him clean, Margarito barely hit him clean, Judah hardly touched him, etc. Clottey's defense is practically impenetrable. The problem of course obviously is his offensive output is so low.
They have totally diffenent styles of defense though, that's a poor comparison. Clottey's defense is like Winky Wright's defense. Not Floyd's.
As far as opponent's landed connect percentage, actually Clottey and Mayweather's defense are very close to being the same in that regard. The difference obviously is that floyd has a better offense and footwork. Technically speaking though, Clottey is one of the best in the game.
A lot of people feel the same way, which makes it odd that floyd is so hesitant to get in the ring with Pacquiao. How do you explain that?
Also, from what I saw from Floyd against Mosley, I saw a very beatable fighter. My prediction previously was if Floyd fought Pacquiao the same way he did against Mosley, he would lose. However if he fought his more typical pot-shot, stay away and play it safe type of fight, he would win on points.
This means very little. He was headbutted in the 3rd or 4th round that caused the darkened eye for one, two because Clottey was so inactive pac was forced to throw a shitload of punches which left himself more open. He would not fight Floyd the same way.
Further, judging a guy's face doesn't always tell the story. I mean Floyd mayweather was bleeding against Emmanuel Augustus. What does that say about Floyd?
Who has EVER had an easy time hitting Clottey clean? He has that shell defense, to the extreme. Cotto barely hit him clean, Margarito barely hit him clean, Judah hardly touched him, etc. Clottey's defense is practically impenetrable. The problem of course obviously is his offensive output is so low.
They have totally diffenent styles of defense though, that's a poor comparison. Clottey's defense is like Winky Wright's defense. Not Floyd's.
As far as opponent's landed connect percentage, actually Clottey and Mayweather's defense are very close to being the same in that regard. The difference obviously is that floyd has a better offense and footwork. Technically speaking though, Clottey is one of the best in the game.
A lot of people feel the same way, which makes it odd that floyd is so hesitant to get in the ring with Pacquiao. How do you explain that?
Also, from what I saw from Floyd against Mosley, I saw a very beatable fighter. My prediction previously was if Floyd fought Pacquiao the same way he did against Mosley, he would lose. However if he fought his more typical pot-shot, stay away and play it safe type of fight, he would win on points.
The Mosley fight confirmed to me that he is going to beat Pac-Man badly. Mayweather took Mosley best shot recovered and beat the brakes off Mosley the rest of the fight. Yes, I'm saying that Pac-Man has never in his career fought anyone that has hand speed and good foot work. Please list the fighter that he fought and I will shut up on the issue? He has made a living out off beating up no defense having come forward fighters. FYI, Mayweather fights every fighter differently, so you can count on seeing a different animal in ring with Pac-Man. Why can't people realize that Pac-Man is fighting for a 50-50 or 60-40 split based on his PPV numbers. This fight is big business ESPN and all that. Arum called Money bluff last time and he fought Mosley proved he was the cash cow, now it's Pac-Man turn to get them numbers.
All good bigface.
But you know, that's one thing we don't know. Both guys are extremely fast. Who knows IF Floyd will be able to get out of the way of Manny's shots. We know that Floyd's style of defense is effective against orthadox style's, but Manny's is everything but that.
His punches come from very odd angles, and if he isn't faster than Floyd...he's at least just as fast. And that's both footspeed, and handspeed. We don't even see much of Floyd's handspeed anymore, since he hardly throws more than one shot at a time.
All I know is that you really can't gauge this fight by anything we've seen from these two guys, because neither one of them have seen an animal like the other.
But you know, that's one thing we don't know. Both guys are extremely fast. Who knows IF Floyd will be able to get out of the way of Manny's shots. We know that Floyd's style of defense is effective against orthadox style's, but Manny's is everything but that.
His punches come from very odd angles, and if he isn't faster than Floyd...he's at least just as fast. And that's both footspeed, and handspeed. We don't even see much of Floyd's handspeed anymore, since he hardly throws more than one shot at a time.
All I know is that you really can't gauge this fight by anything we've seen from these two guys, because neither one of them have seen an animal like the other.
Different way in looking at the fight I suppose.
The way I saw it, is Floyd can definitely be hurt. Another thing was Mosley didn't really do shit after round 2, a lot of that was him being out of gas a little bit in the second half of the fight and just simply second guessing himself constantly, doing that jittery shit and worrying about being countered, when he need to just attack. Easier said then done, obviously, but in my mind, there is no doubt that if Pac hurts floyd, if he catches him clean there is no way in hell he's going to let up on Floyd.
On top of that Pac is so tricky to deal with because he comes from all angles and he has that lighting fast in and out approach that fighters cant figure out, they cant get their timing down right because they get confused as to when he's coming in and when he's leaving - one second he's attacking, he takes a step back and you think he's done, next thing you know he's right back in your face unleashing a four hit combo. I think floyd will have a problem with that his shoulder roll is very good for the first couple punches put after the first two and after pac is suddenly on the other side of you that shit isn't going to be as effective.
You can't fight at 122 pounds and not fight anyone with fast hands. Just go to boxrec.com, look at his opponents and they all had fast hands.
So does pacquiao. Just look at his most recent fights:
Pac fought completely different fights against Clottey, Cotto, Hatton and Oscar. Four completely different game plans.
But I'm glad you admit this - this proves there is an element of unknown, something you cannot even predict. If Floyd fights everyone differently, you don't know how he'll deal with Pac. Likewise, Pac fights everyone differently so we don't know how he'd deal with Floyd.
Again, this is what makes this fight so appealing.
The way I saw it, is Floyd can definitely be hurt. Another thing was Mosley didn't really do shit after round 2, a lot of that was him being out of gas a little bit in the second half of the fight and just simply second guessing himself constantly, doing that jittery shit and worrying about being countered, when he need to just attack. Easier said then done, obviously, but in my mind, there is no doubt that if Pac hurts floyd, if he catches him clean there is no way in hell he's going to let up on Floyd.
On top of that Pac is so tricky to deal with because he comes from all angles and he has that lighting fast in and out approach that fighters cant figure out, they cant get their timing down right because they get confused as to when he's coming in and when he's leaving - one second he's attacking, he takes a step back and you think he's done, next thing you know he's right back in your face unleashing a four hit combo. I think floyd will have a problem with that his shoulder roll is very good for the first couple punches put after the first two and after pac is suddenly on the other side of you that shit isn't going to be as effective.
You can't fight at 122 pounds and not fight anyone with fast hands. Just go to boxrec.com, look at his opponents and they all had fast hands.
So does pacquiao. Just look at his most recent fights:
Pac fought completely different fights against Clottey, Cotto, Hatton and Oscar. Four completely different game plans.
But I'm glad you admit this - this proves there is an element of unknown, something you cannot even predict. If Floyd fights everyone differently, you don't know how he'll deal with Pac. Likewise, Pac fights everyone differently so we don't know how he'd deal with Floyd.
Again, this is what makes this fight so appealing.
Great point Morebass. Now we're talking boxing folks. Damn this fight will be one for the history books. Let's see how Pac-Mans next fight will pan out. I wish he would've fought Berto or Mosley, so we could've gotten to see how he handles handspeed. But we are 4sho going to have a KO in the fight with Stone-Hands. I have Pac-Man OK'ing him in 7rds.
How did you see a beatable fighter? Because his knees buckled? You see what Brother Nazim said about Shane. Shane hits hard then a mf.... If Shane couldn't knock Floyd out, I don't think Pac could.
But anyway, I think it's the opposite in terms of how the fight could play out. I think Pac would have a better chance at beating Floyd if Floyd fought his pot-shot, stay away and play it safe type of fight. That's how Castillo gave him trouble. Pacquiao could or would win rounds based on the pressure that's he'd be putting on Mayweather.
If Mayweather fought Pacquiao like he fought Shane, I could see Pacquiao getting knocked out. Shane was getting stung.
But anyway, I think it's the opposite in terms of how the fight could play out. I think Pac would have a better chance at beating Floyd if Floyd fought his pot-shot, stay away and play it safe type of fight. That's how Castillo gave him trouble. Pacquiao could or would win rounds based on the pressure that's he'd be putting on Mayweather.
If Mayweather fought Pacquiao like he fought Shane, I could see Pacquiao getting knocked out. Shane was getting stung.
2-0-Sixx is bring the heat today. I see you Tony.. I'm basing this views on the Marquez fights. Manny was getting hurt by Marquez counter shots and in the 2nd he was hurt badly. I think that he we be hit and hurt by Money's counter shots all night. The reason why Mosley, Zab, Hatton and the Golden Boy stop throwing shots was because of the hard counter shots hitting them back. See Mayweather makes the other fighters think in the ring because he's hard to hit clean and the counter shot is coming back at you
I saw a fighter that for one, got hurt. More importantly, I saw a hittable fighter.
Shane hits hard, he's stronger than Pacquiao. But punching is about timing and speed. This is proven by Cotto going 12 full rounds against Mosley but being dropped twice and stopped by Pacquiao. Ricky Hatton also had been in the ring with stronger guys than Pac, but the punches landed on his chin were perfectly timed shots he didn't see coming.
If Shane can hurt Floyd, then Pac can too. And my opinion is that if he hurts Floyd, Floyd isn't going to have the luxury that he did against Mosley who really couldn't keep the pressure on and is much more predictable and easier to figure out than Pac.
If he fights Pac the same way, which was pretty damn close and nearly toe to toe, that's floyd's ass. Pac would have the advantage becaue Floyd would make it a whole lot easier for Pac to land on him. Pac is also a southpaw which floyd has had a bit of problems with in the past, it's harder for floyd's defense to be as effective.
If floyd is pot shotting though, it will be extremely difficult for Pac because his is shorter and more importantly, has much shorter arms then Floyd. That's the thing about Castillo, Castillo was bigger than floyd so floyd's arm reach wasn't a factor. Look at Castillo's arms:
Pac has a 67" reach. Floyd has a 72" reach
Shane hits hard, he's stronger than Pacquiao. But punching is about timing and speed. This is proven by Cotto going 12 full rounds against Mosley but being dropped twice and stopped by Pacquiao. Ricky Hatton also had been in the ring with stronger guys than Pac, but the punches landed on his chin were perfectly timed shots he didn't see coming.
If Shane can hurt Floyd, then Pac can too. And my opinion is that if he hurts Floyd, Floyd isn't going to have the luxury that he did against Mosley who really couldn't keep the pressure on and is much more predictable and easier to figure out than Pac.
If he fights Pac the same way, which was pretty damn close and nearly toe to toe, that's floyd's ass. Pac would have the advantage becaue Floyd would make it a whole lot easier for Pac to land on him. Pac is also a southpaw which floyd has had a bit of problems with in the past, it's harder for floyd's defense to be as effective.
If floyd is pot shotting though, it will be extremely difficult for Pac because his is shorter and more importantly, has much shorter arms then Floyd. That's the thing about Castillo, Castillo was bigger than floyd so floyd's arm reach wasn't a factor. Look at Castillo's arms:
Pac has a 67" reach. Floyd has a 72" reach
zab is a mental midget though so that's a bad comparison. Zab is/was a horrible finisher. Good starter, horrible finisher. See his fights against Floyd, Cotto, Clottey, Carlos Baldomir. Same shit every fight starts out looking awesome then mentally collapses.
Pac on the other hand is a great finisher, often continues to look better as the fight progresses.
Pac on the other hand is a great finisher, often continues to look better as the fight progresses.