who here will vote for Ron Paul, the only honest n level headed man running?
- Thread starter kon/AOV
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After reading this from ThaG, I realized he must just be trolling. If you can't understand the obvious answer to this, then everything you have written will only make me dumber by reading it.
Let me help you out.
Where does the governments money come from?
The citizens of the country. For the government to employ such a large number of people, a lot of them doing sub-standard jobs (because their business is not profit driven and has a limitless supply of money).
For the government to create a job they have to tax the citizens more money. Every time a new department is created, a new war waged, anything the government does ends up taking money OUT of citizens hands a spent for them.
The hypothesis of most politicians is that the consumer drives the economy. Why would taking money from the consumer and wasting it on 32 people working at the DMV and not one of them knows what the fuck they are doing.
Read this.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cost-...vote-created-or-saved-and-guess-who-paying-it
Ron Paul is the only candidate with a clue.
If you want to have a king rule your life, get the fuck out. America is founded on freedom. Real freedom, not this watered down ass shit we have today. We have more people in jail per capita than anyone in the world.
Just because these assholes went to Ivy League schools and think that John Maynard Keynes is a genius because someone paid them to think that doesn't mean they know/care about the people. Don't be fooled.
By the way, Ron Paul predicted the housing crisis a long time ago. Just one of the many thing he has been and will be right about.
Just because these assholes went to Ivy League schools and think that John Maynard Keynes is a genius because someone paid them to think that doesn't mean they know/care about the people. Don't be fooled.
By the way, Ron Paul predicted the housing crisis a long time ago. Just one of the many thing he has been and will be right about.
And you have an even poorer understanding of the history of your country. America was not founded on freedom and has never been free, it has been a plutocracy from the very beginning, the early 17th century, and all the legislation that seemingly protects people's freedoms and is so proudly touted till this day as an example of how you set up a democracy was in fact written to protect those interests without inciting a mass rebellion. Which it has done very successfully - there are few historical examples of people more ruthlessly exploited than they have been in 19th century America, yet there never was a mass rebellion against the system, a testament of how cleverly set up it was. Peasants in medieval Europe lived truly awful lives but in many ways they didn't have it nearly as bad as workers in the factories, nevertheless the history of Europe is full of peasant rebellions, uprising, revolutions, etc., none of which ever happened in the US on the same scale.
The reason why the middle class was created is the same - it was a concession made by the plutocracy to stave off a mass uprising because the Russian revolution succeeded so everyone was shit-scared it could happen in the West too - communist ideas were very strong in both Europe and the US in the beginning of the 20th century. But it could never have happened were it not for the one-time bonanza of fossil fuels, oil especially, and the lifestyle they enabled. Once the maintenance of that lifestyle for that many people is not possible anymore, the system will fall apart, and do so in a very ugly way.
Which is where its three crucial flaws are. First, while in practice there is what is essentially a hereditary aristocracy in american society even though by law there isn't one, the fact that it is not protected by the laws of the country means that power could in principle be grabbed by someone else without the use of violence and in a seemingly democratic way. It need not be another party, it is enough that one of the parties be taken over from within, which is what has been happening with republicans in the last 40 years - both parties have always been all about protecting the interests of the ruling plutocracy with some token gestures to the masses, but the republican party has now also become a tool in the hands of religious fundamentalists, which is an extremely dangerous situation (you don't want religious fundamentalists, particularly ones who are eagerly waiting for the Second Coming anywhere near the nuclear weapon control). The second problem is that by making all those concessions to the masses and increasing their material wealth that did not come from any wealth redistribution but were borrowed from the fossil fuel endowment of the planet a situation was set up in which once that fossil fuel endowment is spent there won't be enough not only to maintain a minimum level of material comfort for the masses but not enough to do so even if all the wealth was equally distributed. A situation in which there is not only no satisfactory outcome for everyone involved but the most likely outcome is everyone becoming much much worse. The third flaw is inherent to any ruling system in which the decision making is not based on expertise and it is that if competent people are put in charge, there is a chance that decision making will be at least somewhat adequate and optimal outcome will be achieved at least some of the time. Now what is optimal depends on the point of view - ever since the 18th century the optimal outcome has been the protection of the interests of the rich and that is how legislation has been written. It was the case that the most competent people ruled the country in the 18th century - there was a lot of overlap between the wealthy class and the literate class at the time but those have been diverging steadily ever since with the end result being that the people who make the business and political class right now are complete buffoons. They still come out of the same highly prestigious universities that the people who do have some clue about reality (scientists and engineers) come from, but they study economics, business and law, not science.
BTW, these are three so fundamental flaws that the only end result can be a complete catastrophe, of the kind that makes worries about freedom, democracy, human rights, etc. completely irrelevant. But one has to also realize that democracy is not something we should be aiming for in principle - we do not want everyone to have a say, we want the best decisions based on available information to be made, in the interest of the common good. Democracy is a way to in principle prevent individuals making decisions on behalf of everyone else but in their own self-interest. In practice this has never really quite worked, but there is a more fundamental problem with it than whether it is practically possible to do so in a country with 300 million people, and it is that if the majority of the population are semi-literate ignoramuses then allowing them to have their say is not at all the best way to make sure the optimal decisions will be made, in fact it is a very good way of making sure the opposite happens. Unfortunately the vast majority of the population indeed consists of semi-literate cretins and this always been the case.
Absolute monarchy is the best system as long as the monarch is competent. It is also the worst when he isn't, though, and due to it being hereditary there is no way to prevent the latter situation from happening. Note that competency here very much includes being able to overcome your narcissist urge to think of yourself as an expert in everything and trust the experts. We need a system where the decision making is ultimately done by the experts with the common good as a goal. Experts may not be always right but this is not the reason not to trust them that many think it is - experts are invariably much more often correct on average than everyone else and nobody is correct 100% of the time. The problem is that there is no practical way of getting from where we are right now to that kind of system, at the very least the vast mass of semi-literate morons I mentioned above also harbors some very strong anti-intellectual feelings so it will be adamantly against such a system, just as strongly against it as the current ruling class will be, even though it would be in the interest of the former and against the interests of the latter. This is why I like to stress so often that the worshiping of democracy is a very dangerous delusion that people need to wake up from.
The reason why the middle class was created is the same - it was a concession made by the plutocracy to stave off a mass uprising because the Russian revolution succeeded so everyone was shit-scared it could happen in the West too - communist ideas were very strong in both Europe and the US in the beginning of the 20th century. But it could never have happened were it not for the one-time bonanza of fossil fuels, oil especially, and the lifestyle they enabled. Once the maintenance of that lifestyle for that many people is not possible anymore, the system will fall apart, and do so in a very ugly way.
Which is where its three crucial flaws are. First, while in practice there is what is essentially a hereditary aristocracy in american society even though by law there isn't one, the fact that it is not protected by the laws of the country means that power could in principle be grabbed by someone else without the use of violence and in a seemingly democratic way. It need not be another party, it is enough that one of the parties be taken over from within, which is what has been happening with republicans in the last 40 years - both parties have always been all about protecting the interests of the ruling plutocracy with some token gestures to the masses, but the republican party has now also become a tool in the hands of religious fundamentalists, which is an extremely dangerous situation (you don't want religious fundamentalists, particularly ones who are eagerly waiting for the Second Coming anywhere near the nuclear weapon control). The second problem is that by making all those concessions to the masses and increasing their material wealth that did not come from any wealth redistribution but were borrowed from the fossil fuel endowment of the planet a situation was set up in which once that fossil fuel endowment is spent there won't be enough not only to maintain a minimum level of material comfort for the masses but not enough to do so even if all the wealth was equally distributed. A situation in which there is not only no satisfactory outcome for everyone involved but the most likely outcome is everyone becoming much much worse. The third flaw is inherent to any ruling system in which the decision making is not based on expertise and it is that if competent people are put in charge, there is a chance that decision making will be at least somewhat adequate and optimal outcome will be achieved at least some of the time. Now what is optimal depends on the point of view - ever since the 18th century the optimal outcome has been the protection of the interests of the rich and that is how legislation has been written. It was the case that the most competent people ruled the country in the 18th century - there was a lot of overlap between the wealthy class and the literate class at the time but those have been diverging steadily ever since with the end result being that the people who make the business and political class right now are complete buffoons. They still come out of the same highly prestigious universities that the people who do have some clue about reality (scientists and engineers) come from, but they study economics, business and law, not science.
BTW, these are three so fundamental flaws that the only end result can be a complete catastrophe, of the kind that makes worries about freedom, democracy, human rights, etc. completely irrelevant. But one has to also realize that democracy is not something we should be aiming for in principle - we do not want everyone to have a say, we want the best decisions based on available information to be made, in the interest of the common good. Democracy is a way to in principle prevent individuals making decisions on behalf of everyone else but in their own self-interest. In practice this has never really quite worked, but there is a more fundamental problem with it than whether it is practically possible to do so in a country with 300 million people, and it is that if the majority of the population are semi-literate ignoramuses then allowing them to have their say is not at all the best way to make sure the optimal decisions will be made, in fact it is a very good way of making sure the opposite happens. Unfortunately the vast majority of the population indeed consists of semi-literate cretins and this always been the case.
Absolute monarchy is the best system as long as the monarch is competent. It is also the worst when he isn't, though, and due to it being hereditary there is no way to prevent the latter situation from happening. Note that competency here very much includes being able to overcome your narcissist urge to think of yourself as an expert in everything and trust the experts. We need a system where the decision making is ultimately done by the experts with the common good as a goal. Experts may not be always right but this is not the reason not to trust them that many think it is - experts are invariably much more often correct on average than everyone else and nobody is correct 100% of the time. The problem is that there is no practical way of getting from where we are right now to that kind of system, at the very least the vast mass of semi-literate morons I mentioned above also harbors some very strong anti-intellectual feelings so it will be adamantly against such a system, just as strongly against it as the current ruling class will be, even though it would be in the interest of the former and against the interests of the latter. This is why I like to stress so often that the worshiping of democracy is a very dangerous delusion that people need to wake up from.
I read very little of your post.
I saw, blah blah blah your wrong... blah blah blah I want a king because its best... blah blah blah people are dumb and need experts...
Your experts, left or right, got us into this mess because of 40 years of failure.
I trust the politician who isn't bought and paid for.
Keep your shitty ass Manchurian candidate, I'll take Ron Paul.
Edit: I'm also very aware that democracy is not a save all system. Corruption exists in any system. The key is the limit it and punish it when it's discovered. The Nazis came to power democratically.
Meanwhile the USA supports dictators all over the world, so long as it's their dictator.
I saw, blah blah blah your wrong... blah blah blah I want a king because its best... blah blah blah people are dumb and need experts...
Your experts, left or right, got us into this mess because of 40 years of failure.
I trust the politician who isn't bought and paid for.
Keep your shitty ass Manchurian candidate, I'll take Ron Paul.
Edit: I'm also very aware that democracy is not a save all system. Corruption exists in any system. The key is the limit it and punish it when it's discovered. The Nazis came to power democratically.
Meanwhile the USA supports dictators all over the world, so long as it's their dictator.
Bottom line: we are all beyond fucked at this point, so does it really matter? I dont know.
There is too much cluttered bullshit from centuries of bullshitters, to ever congregate to something "better" or "more efficient" than what we have now....without mass loss of society, human life, and who knows what else.
And my girlfriend wonders why i dont want to have any off-spring.
There is too much cluttered bullshit from centuries of bullshitters, to ever congregate to something "better" or "more efficient" than what we have now....without mass loss of society, human life, and who knows what else.
And my girlfriend wonders why i dont want to have any off-spring.
I went back and read your post. I get what you're saying about experts making decisions and a competent monarch being better systems.
The mass of people are idiots. I agree with that as well.
Obviously, democracy isn't going anywhere in this country and neither is the current system. The main problem is that the people have no held their elected leaders to their promises. There are no repercussions for a candidate if they lie their way into the White-House, only if they lie about a blowjob.
The ruling class has learned a lot from the previous attempts to rule the world. Instead of state run media, it's like we have a media run state.
Candidates are chosen for us, forced down our throats, then it's pick the lesser of two evils time.
Republicans and Democrats, although both agreeing on most issues like bigger government and more imperialism, they argue about abortion, gay marriage and other trivial things to keep the sheep busy. With the sheep actively arguing over non-sense, the ruling class continues to rob the people.
And I'm very aware what money is. Money is gold. Money is bread. Money is a resource or item with actual value. Everything else is just paper cleverly disguised as money.
Edit: and maybe nickels can still be money... for now. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/true-value-money-literally
The mass of people are idiots. I agree with that as well.
Obviously, democracy isn't going anywhere in this country and neither is the current system. The main problem is that the people have no held their elected leaders to their promises. There are no repercussions for a candidate if they lie their way into the White-House, only if they lie about a blowjob.
The ruling class has learned a lot from the previous attempts to rule the world. Instead of state run media, it's like we have a media run state.
Candidates are chosen for us, forced down our throats, then it's pick the lesser of two evils time.
Republicans and Democrats, although both agreeing on most issues like bigger government and more imperialism, they argue about abortion, gay marriage and other trivial things to keep the sheep busy. With the sheep actively arguing over non-sense, the ruling class continues to rob the people.
And I'm very aware what money is. Money is gold. Money is bread. Money is a resource or item with actual value. Everything else is just paper cleverly disguised as money.
Edit: and maybe nickels can still be money... for now. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/true-value-money-literally
Just a few ideas that if you agree then you should vote ron paul and nobody else no matter what (other then maybe gary johnson, but unfortunately thats not happening this election), or else you wont get
1. think its wrong the federal reserve is privately owned
2. think its wrong the big bank were bailed out (including banks not from the U.S.) and didnt have to pay any price but instead came up BIG time because they were wreckless, but we must pay prices for risky gambles
3. want to end the war on drugs
4. want to make drugs legal and you understand its a personel responsibility and choice
5. want to end the wars we have going on
want to end ALL wars
6.want to mind our own business to prevent future wars
7. dont want to go to war unless we must and its in OUR best interest
8.want to keep the government out of our personal lives and let us live how we see fit
9.dont want tax increases on people who are not filthy rich
10. would like to COMPLETELY END being taxed on things like tips and possibly other things
11. if you realize that spending a shit load of money on fencing off every inch of land that connects mexico and america is HUGE COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY, OF TAX PAYER MONEY(and that their is most likely a special interest there)
12. that the only way (if we choose to do so) to secure the boarder is to have boots on ground and use our military in a way thats not completely a waste
13. want to return our troops home from EVERYWHERE (including bases in germany, china, etc etc) because that is also a waste of tax payer money and serves no good purpose to the people who pay for it in tax's........US!!
14. END FOREGIN AID ( because all it really is, is taking money from the non rich people in a rich country and giving it to rich people in a poor country)
15!!!! if you want a president who says these things and will actually do them and not be bought out by special interest groups.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS RON PAUL'S VOTING RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!! HE HAS NEVER BEEN A FLIP FLOPPER, DOESNT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HAS EVERY SINGLE TIME VOTED DOWN A TAX INCREASE ON MIDDLE CLASS AND LOWER, HE KEEPS HIS WORD, AND STANDS BY IT!!!
RON PAUL IS HONEST!!
i dont know how anybody in their right mind could not vote for him,, it makes no sense.
He IS THE SMARTEST person running when it comes to our economy, he is SOLID on personal freedoms, he is bottom line THE FUCKING MAN FOR COMPLETE FREEDOM AND WHAT IS RIGHT
i have so much more to sauy but im drinking and got things to do so ill be back
1. think its wrong the federal reserve is privately owned
2. think its wrong the big bank were bailed out (including banks not from the U.S.) and didnt have to pay any price but instead came up BIG time because they were wreckless, but we must pay prices for risky gambles
3. want to end the war on drugs
4. want to make drugs legal and you understand its a personel responsibility and choice
5. want to end the wars we have going on
want to end ALL wars
6.want to mind our own business to prevent future wars
7. dont want to go to war unless we must and its in OUR best interest
8.want to keep the government out of our personal lives and let us live how we see fit
9.dont want tax increases on people who are not filthy rich
10. would like to COMPLETELY END being taxed on things like tips and possibly other things
11. if you realize that spending a shit load of money on fencing off every inch of land that connects mexico and america is HUGE COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY, OF TAX PAYER MONEY(and that their is most likely a special interest there)
12. that the only way (if we choose to do so) to secure the boarder is to have boots on ground and use our military in a way thats not completely a waste
13. want to return our troops home from EVERYWHERE (including bases in germany, china, etc etc) because that is also a waste of tax payer money and serves no good purpose to the people who pay for it in tax's........US!!
14. END FOREGIN AID ( because all it really is, is taking money from the non rich people in a rich country and giving it to rich people in a poor country)
15!!!! if you want a president who says these things and will actually do them and not be bought out by special interest groups.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS RON PAUL'S VOTING RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!! HE HAS NEVER BEEN A FLIP FLOPPER, DOESNT GO BACK ON HIS WORD, HAS EVERY SINGLE TIME VOTED DOWN A TAX INCREASE ON MIDDLE CLASS AND LOWER, HE KEEPS HIS WORD, AND STANDS BY IT!!!
RON PAUL IS HONEST!!
i dont know how anybody in their right mind could not vote for him,, it makes no sense.
He IS THE SMARTEST person running when it comes to our economy, he is SOLID on personal freedoms, he is bottom line THE FUCKING MAN FOR COMPLETE FREEDOM AND WHAT IS RIGHT
i have so much more to sauy but im drinking and got things to do so ill be back
Does it really matter? fuck yes it does, now I will be the first to admit I am simple minded in my love for my country but if you believe that a democracy can take place in human civilization how can you not support Ron Paul? Its spreading his message across generations to organize people to fight for something thats just in a fucked up world, whether they believe it or not I have watched more and more GOP candidates during debates say, Well I have to say I agree with Ron Paul or I dont do this often but I agree with Ron Paul, and that alone, to me, is a huge jump forward from just laughing at him only 4 years ago. I think the bigger problem is that people are accepting the state of disenfranchisement and just turning off from the process as a whole
Very simple - Ron Paul has absolutely no intention to create a democracy in America - his goal is to bring back brutal plutocracy in its most disgusting form. It has always been a plutocracy, but there have been times it has been really really bad, and those are the times that Ron Paul has somehow managed to tick the gullible masses into believing they were some sort of paradise when they were nothing of the sort - people were neither free nor did they live well, they were ruthlessly exploited in conditions often not much better than slavery, they couldn't even protest against those conditions because it was either that or starvation in the absence of any income if you didn't work, and when they did protest, they were often fired at, usually by the law enforcement agencies of state which were supposed to protect them but instead were under the full control of the plutocracts.
If you want to bring that back, then vote for Ron Paul but I highly doubt that a single person posting on this site belongs to that part of society that would benefit if Ron Paul's ideas were applied in practice. Everyone else will be much worse off
If you want to bring that back, then vote for Ron Paul but I highly doubt that a single person posting on this site belongs to that part of society that would benefit if Ron Paul's ideas were applied in practice. Everyone else will be much worse off
I disagree with this assessment.
Either way, Ron Paul wants to change the status quo and OBVIOUSLY the status quo currently is NOT working.
With World GDP= World Debt.... this unsustainable western way of thinking will bring us to your dark ages anyways.
So we are screwed either way? Work for little and be exploited by Ron Paul's plan or wait until hyperinflation hits American shores and we are all poor anyways.
Your Ron Paul scare tactics may work on some, but I am not buying it.
Nobody thinks his system is utopian, that is just how anti Ron Paul people try and portray it when they really don't have a clue.
Ron Paul's idea is based upon personal freedom and personal liberty. From an economic standpoint he is 100% correct and has been for 30 years.
If you really believe that if Ron Paul is elected then our children will be forced into work and there will be no workers rights... lol.. your just confused I guess.
Either way, Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate AGAINST the wars, The Federal Reserve and government intrusion.
He said it best... look at everything the government has "fixed".
They put their hands in housing, medical treatment and student loans... how many of those systems are better off now because the government knew best? None, they are all beyond fucked now.
I'll take my chances with Ron Paul, let's hope everyone else feels the same way or we can look forward to eating garbage from the rich peoples trash cans.
Either way, Ron Paul wants to change the status quo and OBVIOUSLY the status quo currently is NOT working.
With World GDP= World Debt.... this unsustainable western way of thinking will bring us to your dark ages anyways.
So we are screwed either way? Work for little and be exploited by Ron Paul's plan or wait until hyperinflation hits American shores and we are all poor anyways.
Your Ron Paul scare tactics may work on some, but I am not buying it.
Nobody thinks his system is utopian, that is just how anti Ron Paul people try and portray it when they really don't have a clue.
Ron Paul's idea is based upon personal freedom and personal liberty. From an economic standpoint he is 100% correct and has been for 30 years.
If you really believe that if Ron Paul is elected then our children will be forced into work and there will be no workers rights... lol.. your just confused I guess.
Either way, Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate AGAINST the wars, The Federal Reserve and government intrusion.
He said it best... look at everything the government has "fixed".
They put their hands in housing, medical treatment and student loans... how many of those systems are better off now because the government knew best? None, they are all beyond fucked now.
I'll take my chances with Ron Paul, let's hope everyone else feels the same way or we can look forward to eating garbage from the rich peoples trash cans.
That the current system is broken does not mean that it can not get worse. Both the conventional politicians and the likes of Ron Paul are pretty much equally disconnected from reality and the real problems the world faces. The problem is that if those problems did not exist (which BTW is what Ron Paul thinks), his proposed policies would bring disaster to the average citizen. Forget about deficit spending and wars overseas, that's not what I am talking about.
Personal freedom and personal liberty as the libertarians understand them can only bring one outcome and we know what it is because we have been there. He himself has outspokenly expressed his intention to bring it back to that time numerous times. And this is the logical outcome of libertarian ideology because libertarian ideology is completely disconnected from reality - it ignores the biological nature of human beings and its influence over their behavior, it is basically completely blind to the reality of human behavior; not to mention that it completely excludes the environment and its improtance for the existence of human societies from its worldview.
If you think the wars, the Fed and "government intrusion" are the real problems of this country you are completely disconnected from reality and have absolutely no fucking clue about what's going on in the world either. In which case it is not surprising that you support some nutbag that has no clue whatsoever either. And you're not alone. Too bad for the rest of the world though...
Personal freedom and personal liberty as the libertarians understand them can only bring one outcome and we know what it is because we have been there. He himself has outspokenly expressed his intention to bring it back to that time numerous times. And this is the logical outcome of libertarian ideology because libertarian ideology is completely disconnected from reality - it ignores the biological nature of human beings and its influence over their behavior, it is basically completely blind to the reality of human behavior; not to mention that it completely excludes the environment and its improtance for the existence of human societies from its worldview.
If you think the wars, the Fed and "government intrusion" are the real problems of this country you are completely disconnected from reality and have absolutely no fucking clue about what's going on in the world either. In which case it is not surprising that you support some nutbag that has no clue whatsoever either. And you're not alone. Too bad for the rest of the world though...