Where Did God Come From?

[BaSICCally]

I'm sure some great philosophers graduated harvard, but there are many idiots that graduated from harvard and other ivy league schools as well.

If you were rich, or son of a politician, I promise that you too could go to harvard.

Regardless, of what students from Harvard have become, after graduating from Harvard. One could easlily argue that Harvard is one of the most prestigious universites in the world.

Also if Harvard has a school of Divinity then it could be argued that because Harvard is such a school of prestige that it must of had taken a very critical approach when trying to find out if God exists or not. Im not saying their right or not, however Harvard must be taken into consideration when talking about high caliber. Also the great minds of Harvard would of dropped the school of Divinity if they found any flaws.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Regardless, of what students from Harvard have become, after graduating from Harvard. One could easlily argue that Harvard is one of the most prestigious universites in the world.

Also if Harvard has a school of Divinity then it could be argued that because Harvard is such a school of prestige that it must of had taken a very critical approach when trying to find out if God exists or not. Im not saying their right or not, however Harvard must be taken into consideration when talking about high caliber. Also the great minds of Harvard would of dropped the school of Divinity if they found any flaws.

That is not true at all. Harvard is a business. Simple as that. Money comes first, then education.

I'm willing to lay a wager that there have been scores of atheists/agnostics that attended harvard and even taught classes. Harvard doesn’t have any set guidelines that there students must follow. Keep in mind the Unabomber graduated harvard. I'm sure many of these people found an endless amount of flaws in this magnificent "school of divinity."

I have no idea why you have this great respect for Harvard and the harvard graduates. What makes harvard so much better then lets say, U.W?

Is a man only intelligent if he graduates from an Ivy League school?

 

[Hit The Blunt]

I'm siding with 2-0-sixx on this ----- What??? What am i saying?? LOL. The dick's of those at Harvard or any Ivy League school need not be rode any longer. Honesty coming from harvard does not make you smart. It simply means you were able to follow a line that was drawn in front of you.

On a side note--I believe the institution of education should only exist to teach people how to educate themselves for the rest of their lives. Once that has been accomplished the educational "system" serves no purpose, except possibly a place where one may obtain "resources" to further their research or self-study.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

Once that has been accomplished the educational "system" serves no purpose, except possibly a place where one may obtain "resources" to further their research or self-study.

 

[BaSICCally]

That is not true at all. Harvard is a business. Simple as that. Money comes first, then education.

So is every university and what evidence to you have to back this claim? Where can you get a free education besides your local library? Same goes for pro sports. Esentially yeah it's a sport but at the same time it's a buisness.

I'm willing to lay a wager that there have been scores of atheists/agnostics that attended harvard and even taught classes. Harvard doesn’t have any set guidelines that there students must follow. Keep in mind the Unabomber graduated harvard. I'm sure many of these people found an endless amount of flaws in this magnificent "school of divinity."

Where are these flaws? who are these people?

I have no idea why you have this great respect for Harvard and the harvard graduates. What makes harvard so much better then lets say, U.W?

I have such respect for Harvard because it has such a superior standard of education. One of the highest in the world. Can you deny that?
Harvard has a higher prestige and standards set for their current students and prospect. Nothing is wrong with U.W. Hell, Bruce Lee graduated from the University of Washington with a degree in philosophy and religion. His actions speak for himself.

Is a man only intelligent if he graduates from an Ivy League school?

No. Ivy leauge schools however are some of the most prestigous in the world. So their "caliber" is set very high. That simple.

Once that has been accomplished the educational "system" serves no purpose, except possibly a place where one may obtain "resources" to further their research or self-study

ONCE the educational "system" serves no purpose. This is not going to happen in our life times. So let's not live in the "as if". We are dealing with the way it "IS", the inevitable. Not the way it SHOULD BE.

Basically if your "caliber" is so supperior to religion and the rest of the world. Then prove it. The reason I asked if he went to Harvard is because some ofthe most highly educated people in the world attend or attended Harvard. And if Xaninex "caliber" is so high then he must of tested his opinions against some of the most educated in the world. Isn't this how you reach this "caliber"?

If you say your car is the fastest in the world you race against the fastest in the world. You don't claim you have a fastest car in the world and not TEST it.

Make sense?

 

[2-0-Sixx]

So is every university and what evidence to you have to back this claim? Where can you get a free education besides your local library? Same goes for pro sports. Esentially yeah it's a sport but at the same time it's a buisness.

Yes, all schools in amerika are a business. That is the problem with the education system in amerika. What percent of people graduate college?
Why?
Lack of money
European colleges are at a much higher "caliber" then Harvard and European people in general are greatly further educated then amerikans. Where else can you take a class with Stephen Hawkings as your teacher?

Where are these flaws? who are these people?

I'm not about to waste my time searching for people who have found flaws in this "school of divinity", a school which is a business and cares more about money then education.

I have such respect for Harvard because it has such a superior standard of education. One of the highest in the world. Can you deny that?

I can agree that Harvard has a high standard in LAW, which teaches their students to openly lie, cheat, do whatever it takes to win and most of all, it teaches greed.

I'm sure there are countless amounts of great people who have graduated harvard, but there are also countless amounts of geniuses who did not attend any college.

You must remember when one goes to college it is for a reason. That reason is derived from what they want to do with their lives. If someone wants to be a lawyer, their first choice of school would be Harvard. If they don’t have the money, they can’t get in and have to settle for a lesser school. But people like george bush can go to any school they chose. Is this fair? Does this not resemble a business?
I don’t have the same respect you have for harvard because I know that half of the people there are not worthy of attending that school, and the other half are doing the same thing everyone else in the world who goes to college is doing, which is learning about a specific trade which does not automatically make one intelligent.
Under your logic, someone who graduated harvard who studied law, is automatically put above anyone else based on the fact that they went to harvard!

asically if your "caliber" is so supperior to religion and the rest of the world. Then prove it.

How can one prove it? You can’t. Just like you cannot prove god exists, I cannot prove my "caliber" is superior to any religion.

The reason I asked if he went to Harvard is because some ofthe most highly educated people in the world attend or attended Harvard. And if Xaninex "caliber" is so high then he must of tested his opinions against some of the most educated in the world. Isn't this how you reach this "caliber"?

So what if some of the most highly educated people in the world attended Harvard? MOST of the HIGHLY EDUCATED people in the world did NOT attend Harvard.

If you say your car is the fastest in the world you race against the fastest in the world. You don't claim you have a fastest car in the world and not TEST it.

I supose, kind of...You dont have to race to know its the fastest....But I dont recall anyone saying that their beliefs are the best or the only right one.

I don’t really care to be honest, the only reason I joined this discussion is because I don’t see why you have this mammoth amount of admiration for Harvard, which again is known for Law.

 

[Hit The Blunt]

ONCE the educational "system" serves no purpose. This is not going to happen in our life times.

2-0-Sixx was quoting part of what i said. If you go back and re-read what was written you will see your response doesn't really fit as that is not what was being said. But IMO 'many' parts of the educational system do serve no purpose--that is except to line the pockets of the universities. But that is taking this thread another direction. I will give higher education credit for being GREAT at one thing---Capitalism---Making the masses believe that they must pay for something which can be had for FREE.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I will give higher education credit for being GREAT at one thing---Capitalism---Making the masses believe that they must pay for something which can be had for FREE.

Nicely said.

 

[BaSICCally]

Yes, all schools in amerika are a business. That is the problem with the education system in amerika. What percent of people graduate college?
Why?
Lack of money

Do you know what it is like to lack this money? There are ways to earn scholarships and ways to recieve financial aid. Where there is a will there is a way.

European colleges are at a much higher "caliber" then Harvard and European people in general are greatly further educated then amerikans. Where else can you take a class with Stephen Hawkings as your teacher?

Yes, some of the greatest "caliber" universites are in England. Such as Cambridge and Oxford. Some of the Pilgrims(founders of Harvard) are alumini to Cambridge. C.S. Lewis the great apologetic, writer, essayist, atheist thurned Christian attended Oxford. Not to mention all the great writers which taught and studied in mother Russia, such as Leo Tolstoy and Fyodor Dostoevsky. Also Herman Hess who was German. A great writer who won the Noble peace prize in 1946. Oh yeah Ghandi studied law in England too.

I'm not about to waste my time searching for people who have found flaws in this "school of divinity", a school which is a business and cares more about money then education.

Well you still have yet to prove to me and the rest of the board that Harvard is cheifly a buisness. Therefore you cannot use that as an arugment.

I can agree that Harvard has a high standard in LAW, which teaches their students to openly lie, cheat, do whatever it takes to win and most of all, it teaches greed.

Really? so they have greed 101? Is that a prerequisite for lying 200? Once again you have no proof to your claims. Ghandi was a lawyer and he turned out to be not that bad of a guy.

You forgot to mention Harvard also has a school of Art's and Sciences, Buisness, Medical school,school of education and school Publich Health.

I'm sure there are countless amounts of great people who have graduated harvard, but there are also countless amounts of geniuses who did not attend any college.

Yeah, such as Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali. A few of the greatest African Americans in United States History and key figures in the battle of civil rights and freedom of religion.

I know there are tons of people who never attended college who are great people. I never said there was not.

You must remember when one goes to college it is for a reason. That reason is derived from what they want to do with their lives. If someone wants to be a lawyer, their first choice of school would be Harvard. If they don’t have the money, they can’t get in and have to settle for a lesser school. But people like george bush can go to any school they chose. Is this fair? Does this not resemble a business?

No this is not fair. Once again I will say that you can still be a great and "successful" person without ever stepping on the campus of Harvard. Also if they were even comming close to even attempting to getting into Harvard with it's entrance requirements, I am sure that individual can find scholarships, qualify for finacial aid. Or as you say a "lesser" school. Which is just as well. It's not the school you go to but the person who goes to that school. Both my parents are went to private university's. I wouldn't say their the greatest people in the world.

I don’t have the same respect you have for harvard because I know that half of the people there are not worthy of attending that school, and the other half are doing the same thing everyone else in the world who goes to college is doing, which is learning about a specific trade which does not automatically make one intelligent.

Under your logic, someone who graduated harvard who studied law, is automatically put above anyone else based on the fact that they went to harvard!

Your asuming this is my logic. I never said this. Yes one who attends Harvard has more prestige on his resume the one who might of graduated from most other universities. Once again I will say that it doesn't matter what university one attends, it is all about who that person is after they graduate. Even if this individual even graduates or not.

How can one prove it? You can’t. Just like you cannot prove god exists, I cannot prove my "caliber" is superior to any religion.

Knowledge can be communicated, but wisdom cannot. A man can find it, he can live it, he can be filled and sustained by it, but he cannot utter or teach it.
- Hermann Hess

Your right I cannot prove God exists. I learned that by reading that quote.

So what if some of the most highly educated people in the world attended Harvard? MOST of the HIGHLY EDUCATED people in the world did NOT attend Harvard.

I know

I supose, kind of...You dont have to race to know its the fastest....But I dont recall anyone saying that their beliefs are the best or the only right one.

No, but some of us, wish to put themselves in a higher "caliber" then the rest of us. All I was trying to acomplish by asking if they went to Harvard, was to see if he was at that level of "caliber". Because it can be argued that those who attend Harvard are well versed and well taught in the subject of philosophy of religion. So it can be assumed that if one is above the caliber of religion that they must be above a student or teacher in the school of Divinity of Harvard. As opposed to those who are not in college or who educate themselves in their free time. Because those who attend Harvard school of Divinity they have to learn about religion as well as the best arguments about if God exists or not. Their forced to. As opposed to those who learn on their lesiure who can filter out what they read and what they do not.

If those of a higher caliber on this board responed by saying no BaSICCally I do not attend Harvard, but better yet I have read these scores of books, took these classes, have talked to some of the greatest minds in the world, traveled the world, studied this and that. Then I would be humble and let this person take the pedistal as one of the greatest people on the board and the world. Untill then we as a board should reconize that were not better then each other, that were all basically in the same boat. Right?

Also I never once said Harvard is the best school in the world or that everyone who goes to Harvard is any better then the rest of us. All I was simply trying to use is Harvard for its name. Harvard is a very famous school, with a lot of prestige and educational requirements. That it. I could of used the University of Washington, Notre Dame, Stanford, Boston University or other colleges across the world. All schools in which teach religion.

I don’t really care to be honest, the only reason I joined this discussion is because I don’t see why you have this mammoth amount of admiration for Harvard, which again is known for Law.

What I said ^^^^ above answers why I have this mammoth admiration for Harvard.

 

[LastTemptation]

"God is the greatest imaginary being of all time. Along with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, the invention of God is probably the greatest creation of human thought." -Neil Jordan

"Not only am I atheist but I consider religion one of the most serious problems of humanity. When a believer accepts a deity as more important than his or her life then the believer will see others as unimportant; human life will be secondary, and that's when the problems begin. Believing there are higher beauties than human life is a serious mistake common not only to religions but also to nationalism and certain ideologies, such as communism and extreme forms of environmentalism. In all of these cases, believers are willing to sacrifice human life for some higher goal and that's when we have hijackers throwing airplanes into skyscrapers or kamikaze pilots."

" ... God didn't create man ... man created God ... "
-Karl Marx

"And it seemed to me as I got older that it was usually the smartest people who didn't believe in God.

 

[BaSICCally]

here we go again...

 

[m.w.merlino]

Man's DESPERATE need to rationalize the unknown.

i.e. Everything that man hasn't been able to use Science to solve is a "Miracle, Magical, or God"

There you have it. when Science explains everything there will be no god.

reminds me of the witch hunts. hmm

^^^^best argument against religion in a nut-shell

 

[2-0-Sixx]

"God is the greatest imaginary being of all time. Along with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, the invention of God is probably the greatest creation of human thought." -Neil Jordan

"Not only am I atheist but I consider religion one of the most serious problems of humanity. When a believer accepts a deity as more important than his or her life then the believer will see others as unimportant; human life will be secondary, and that's when the problems begin. Believing there are higher beauties than human life is a serious mistake common not only to religions but also to nationalism and certain ideologies, such as communism and extreme forms of environmentalism. In all of these cases, believers are willing to sacrifice human life for some higher goal and that's when we have hijackers throwing airplanes into skyscrapers or kamikaze pilots."

" ... God didn't create man ... man created God ... "
-Karl Marx

"And it seemed to me as I got older that it was usually the smartest people who didn't believe in God.

Hmmm, Atheist quotes and a Karl Marx quote?!?!?! Welcome to the siccness my new best friend!

 

[miggidy]

"God is the greatest imaginary being of all time. Along with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, the invention of God is probably the greatest creation of human thought." -Neil Jordan

How can God be an invention when he is eternal?

You people are so caught into the material world,
that it blinds you from which you cannot normally see....

 

[miggidy]

[/B][/QUOTE]Originally posted by XianeX
Man's DESPERATE need to rationalize the unknown.

i.e. Everything that man hasn't been able to use Science to solve is a "Miracle, Magical, or God"

There you have it. when Science explains everything there will be no god.

reminds me of the witch hunts. hmm[/B][/QUOTE]


What has science explained thus far?
Science is blinded by the fact that it can only go as far as it can see. Isn't that so????

 

[BaSICCally]

What has science explained thus far?
Science is blinded by the fact that it can only go as far as it can see. Isn't that so???? [/B]

Exactly, what has science told us? My life doesnt revolve around a petrie dish. I am more concerned with human nature. Science has yet to explain why we sleep. Can science show me zero?

Oh yeah. Were not arguing for religion. Go ahead and discredit religion. Religion and the Absolute are two different realms.

 

[miggidy]

^^^^
Good point.

 

[LastTemptation]

How can God be an invention when he is eternal?

You people are so caught into the material world,
that it blinds you from which you cannot normally see....

Come again?
I would have to believe in 'god' to say 'he' isn't eternal. 'god' is an invention just like santa clause and the easter bunny. it's all an illusion, so how can any of that be eternal?

And practice what you preach there little buddy, you god and religion followers are caught up in the material world if anything. Open your eyes to the lies, stop being blinded. I'd hate to have you walking around confused. Atheists accept there is no life after death, no heaven or hell, no god or religions, only one chance at life. Stop living in a fairy tale world, thinking somebody is listening to you when you 'pray'. I hope you find the truth one day, my friend.

 

[BaSICCally]

Come again?
I would have to believe in 'god' to say 'he' isn't eternal. 'god' is an invention just like santa clause and the easter bunny. it's all an illusion, so how can any of that be eternal?

Look at your premise. It's full of holes. Think about it. We ALL know that the easter bunny and santa clause are made up. Yet 90% of Americans belive in God. Not to mention billions of humans since the begining of time have belive in a God, Creator or Designer. Not ONE society has existed without a form of religion. Yet it only took our parents to tell us that the easter bunny and santa clause do not exist. Yet after millions of years were still asking the same questions our ancestors did.

You don't find that odd?

And practice what you preach there little buddy, you god and religion followers are caught up in the material world if anything.

How? what evidence do you have to support this?

Open your eyes to the lies, stop being blinded. I'd hate to have you walking around confused. Atheists accept there is no life after death, no heaven or hell, no god or religions, only one chance at life. Stop living in a fairy tale world, thinking somebody is listening to you when you 'pray'. I hope you find the truth one day, my friend.

Your preception is your reality. However. Keep in mind. When you say there is NO heaven or hell or NO after life, basically it means that there is zero God, zero heaven/hell. What does this zero look like? Can we as humans, comprehend zero?

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

The man saying there is no God is like the drop of water in the ocean saying there is no ocean.

Unintelligent people somehow concoct the idea that life is merely a product of material combinations. If such is true then one should be able to take a corpse and, by material method, put *new* life into it. Good luck Frankenstein.

When it is understood; 1.that there is matter and 2.that there is that which animates it; one will be on there way to understanding God. Real knowledge consists of discerning between spirit and matter.

Any mentality derrived from the false conception of "I am my body" is known as false ego. One who laments for the flesh body is under the illusion that the physical vessel is the living entity. The body is as much the entity as the shirt or shoes are. Why is this so hard to understand?

This discernment of spirit and matter in the living entity is natural. What is it when one refers to his/her body as belonging to him/her? "*My* hands, *my* face*, *my* body". If one is purely the body then who is it that we refer to when we make such statements? In other words, if you are your body, then who is "my"?