Where Did God Come From?

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May 17, 2002
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www.xianex.com
#41
@9165150
if truth is "truth" and false is un"truth" both are byproducts of truth therefore absolutely truthful. truth is a perspective. therefore it is mutable.

absolute truth is discerned and delimited by perspect therefore is mutable from the human mind.

do the logic.

use something less abstract to describe spirit/soul. if you have no concrete and constrained definition of what a soul or what a spirit is. it is hard for one to know what you are talking about. people have MANY definitions for what those abstract concepts are. without me knowing what you think they are i can't draw a rational assessment of what you are saying.

I the life of us is not our incarnation but we are a part of it therefore we are bound to the rules thereof.

when i spoke of selfpreservation i was speaking in the context of what vy was saying inreference to it. you are out of context therefore i will not respond to what you said.

how is a standard not a tool? that was an absolutely ludicrous statement that you need to re-evaluate.

sadly enough. I'm not looking for a religious indoctrination so all the religiofactual information you present i will not pay attention to. that information is not in context with the post or with the context of my conversation with vy therefore i will treat it all as non-sequitor. many of your assessments are illogical at there root. you should re-evaluate a lot of what you stated. it would take too many words to point out each flaw. therefore i WON'T.

but i will say to the greater part of the universe this conversation doesnt exist. in that your question is answered

skittles, ass? I have no lue of what you are talking about. that whole paragraph was retarded

the more i read your statements the more i lose interest. you are an ignorant person bound by an emotional interpretation of what you see. I am incapable of intelllectually reaching you because you views are totally NOT based on logic. but a personal and imaginary construct based on opinion and not verifiably logical fact.

in actuallity i find you to be much less interesting than heresy. i find him to be at least intelligent and educated. you are like a raving loon. I have no wish to be proselytized by one who is obviously devoid of any actual knowledge of anything he speaks about.

why would one need someone else to verify that they are themselves. if that was the case you are saying that god would need someone to verify that he is who he is meaning that he is laccing. deist and theist like yourself have much to learn about common sense. much of your conversation destroys or contradicts other aspects thereof. this is the problem with deists. your logic can not stand alone and it is not consistant. such is the path of lies deception and conjecture.

your logic is flawed man has used god as a tool in which to define the unknown or mysterious aspects of the universe. in short god never would need us we would need it. once we become educated that we are past the mystery of the universe the concept of god becomes smaller and smaller. why do you think theists and deists are fighting harder and harder to get their point across in an ever growing scientific community. because they can no longer substantiate their mysticism.

in the end logic and science will be the defacto standard for rationalizing the universe. the deist perspective is limited to conjecture and catechism.

use ya head.

@VK - if something created itself then it would have to have a beginning, also it would be laccing in the fact that it needed corporation. why would a god need to form itself when it already just is? thats not an attacc against you just something to think about.

I laugh gregariously at the intellectually miniscule torts you imbiciles throw at me. i believe you are scared of death and scared of life. this is very immature.
 
May 17, 2002
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#43
@loca no i don't i believe that the universe is a living thing. and that death is overated and is used to manipulate the minds of people who are scared of it. our mind is a very complex thing and we are very much capable of sensualizing imaginary things in such profound way that we can not discern the reality thereof.

our minds have a distinct way of healing or crippling us. we can by our own emotional states create worlds to shelter ourselves from the reaity of a situation. this is hardcore fact.

@ fuccof. how clever of you. since you have no clue of what i am talking about you assume im making it up. how funny you should educate yourself. then you wouldnt look so ridiculous right now. i guess you needed my attention. well good now i'm giving it to you. would you like more? would you like me to hold your hand like a baby, do you need your diaper changed? if not grow up. and read a book; you might learn something
 
May 17, 2002
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www.xianex.com
#44
why do people use that analogy. its most likely that the chicken and its subsequent egg (or vice versa) evolved from a totally different species. in all likelyhood a chicken is a successful aberration of its ancestors.

therefore neither the chicken or the egg need eithers pre-existance to validate themselves. this is a logical conclusion that can be traced to darwinism if you wish.
 
V

verbal kevlar

Guest
#47
@X when I stated that it all had to begin somewhere, that is exactly what I meant...God just IS...period. Maybe I should have chosen a different context....
 
May 17, 2002
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#49
@ VK 'sall gravitation
@ fuccoff - you are why i like dumb people., but you had time to show up. you must need a hug.
@ loca - thats my whole purpose is just to provide another perspective. also i made another comment to you before that post that you may want to look at.
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#50
@Xianex


quote:
"if truth is "truth" and false is un"truth" both are byproducts of truth therefore absolutely truthful. truth is a perspective. therefore it is mutable.

absolute truth is discerned and delimited by perspect therefore is mutable from the human mind."



absolute truth is absolute. Plain and simple. Absolute truth is objective. It is not defined by any one person. We attempt to define it to the best of our ability. We are not the absolute so we do not know all. Either we accept a standard for transcendental knowledge or we are just floating around in pure speculation.
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quote:
"use something less abstract to describe spirit/soul. if you have no concrete and constrained definition of what a soul or what a spirit is. it is hard for one to know what you are talking about. people have MANY definitions for what those abstract concepts are. without me knowing what you think they are i can't draw a rational assessment of what you are saying."



spirit-soul is what animates the body. When one dies, the soul leaves the body. Thus the body becomes a lifeless pile of flesh, bone, blood, etc. The soul is not born as the body is, and neither does it die. The soul is eternal. One changes bodies the same way they change clothes. Thus we are not the body. We may assume a countless number of bodies, but what we are is that which animates the body. What more is necessary to explain about the soul?...
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quote:
"I the life of us is not our incarnation but we are a part of it therefore we are bound to the rules thereof."



Sort of like if you run through a hallway of closet hooks wearing a baggy shirt you may get your shirt caught and ripped. This is the rule of the baggy shirt. This does not mean you are the baggy shirt. We are not a "part of it" (our body). We are that which animates the body.
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quote:
"how is a standard not a tool? that was an absolutely ludicrous statement that you need to re-evaluate."




there is a huge difference between a tool and a standard. You may have heard of the Bhuddist saying: "it takes a finger to point at the moon, but once the moon is realized you no longer need the finger." In this case the finger is the tool used to realize the standard which is the moon. There is needed no "re-evaluation" on my part. "void" is a tool. Krsna is a standard. I am not using the idea of Krsna to realize an impersonal aspect of brahman; this would be demoting of my intelligence. I am not using the moon to realize the finger.
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quote:
"but i will say to the greater part of the universe this conversation doesnt exist. in that your question is answered"



then what is justified as existing? Based on this nothing really exists. I have self-awareness, as I believe you probably do also. I know that I exist. It really isn't up for debate. Either this conversation exists or nothing exists based on your premise. What is a "greater part of the universe"?
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quote:
"skittles, ass? I have no lue of what you are talking about. that whole paragraph was retarded"




I am speaking on "void" conception, state of no-mind, nirvana, etc. You mentioned it so I was merely showing its flaws. If you do not personally believe or practice this, ok. Nothing I said was "retarded". If you wish to clarify where it became "retarded" to you, I would be glad to attempt to explain better what was meant.
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quote:
"the more i read your statements the more i lose interest. you are an ignorant person bound by an emotional interpretation of what you see. I am incapable of intelllectually reaching you because you views are totally NOT based on logic. but a personal and imaginary construct based on opinion and not verifiably logical fact."



Either you make an example of what you're specifically talking about, or you cop out and just start putting things on me. If this is a legit conversation try to be a little more productive...
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quote:
"in actuallity i find you to be much less interesting than heresy. i find him to be at least intelligent and educated. you are like a raving loon. I have no wish to be proselytized by one who is obviously devoid of any actual knowledge of anything he speaks about."



How many times in this thread has Heresy's name appeared on your posts? Is everyone now referenced to Heresy?

Just because you do not *see* the knowledge of what I speak does not mean I do not have any. Everything I stated made perfect sense. Unfortunately, either you will accept a standard of the absolute in scripture, or you remain agnostic. That is the bottom line. Human logic alone will only get you to partial truths. truths which will vary as we grow to understand more, but will never encompass absolute truth. This is most likely why you believe that truth is mutable. You do not accept any standard for the absolute. You are not a theist, by your own word.
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quote:
"why would one need someone else to verify that they are themselves. if that was the case you are saying that god would need someone to verify that he is who he is meaning that he is laccing. deist and theist like yourself have much to learn about common sense. much of your conversation destroys or contradicts other aspects thereof. this is the problem with deists. your logic can not stand alone and it is not consistant. such is the path of lies deception and conjecture."



You're going to have to do better than this. How about an example. This paragraph is about as productive to this conversation as if I were to say, "hey, you're ugly!". Well, thanks for accusing me of such and such, whoopty whoop. I would appreciate an example, otherwise I shall just take it as a no answer.

Also, I never stated or implied that "one needs someone else to verify themselves". Show me where you got this from?
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quote:
"your logic is flawed man has used god as a tool in which to define the unknown or mysterious aspects of the universe. in short god never would need us we would need it. once we become educated that we are past the mystery of the universe the concept of god becomes smaller and smaller. why do you think theists and deists are fighting harder and harder to get their point across in an ever growing scientific community. because they can no longer substantiate their mysticism."




I never said that God needs us. God is not dependent on us. We are dependent on God. Science only furthers our understanding of material nature set in motion by God. Science will never replace God. This idea that God and science are mutually exclusive is half-wise. One does not replace the other.
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quote:
"in the end logic and science will be the defacto standard for rationalizing the universe. the deist perspective is limited to conjecture and catechism."



logic and science without a standard is pointless speculation on absolute truth, period. It will not overtake God.
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quote:
"I laugh gregariously at the intellectually miniscule torts you imbiciles throw at me. i believe you are scared of death and scared of life. this is very immature."




what you **believe** does not matter. Stick to what you KNOW. based on you own ignorances you "believe" that I am something.
 
May 17, 2002
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www.xianex.com
#51
dude, give it up. it is futile to debate perspectives without common ground. you're not even on the same page that i am. why would i waste keystrokes feeding blind eyes light.

you argue for the sake of it with only opinion and no verifiable fact.

I'll say this. I've met few intellectual, rhetorical, or logical juggernauts on the siccness. heresy is one of those few.
so if i compare you under heresy it is a compliment to him and a slant against you.

I am sure if i was having this conversation with him or a couple other they would have me laughing not at the ignorance only of what they say but the cleverness they would use to get their point across.

the points you argue against me with some I've already stated others are just ridiculous.

feel how you will but I gleen nothing from this discourse. I found Vy much more engaging.

i'm finished with you folks. respect
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#52
@Xianex


quote:
"dude, give it up. it is futile to debate perspectives without common ground. you're not even on the same page that i am. why would i waste keystrokes feeding blind eyes light."



Give it up because you have given up?
you haven't shown me any "ground". I used to be on the same page as you. I once perceived absolute truth as impersonal.

How can YOU feed blind eyes light?

From what source does this light come from?

Does the light come from void? Or do you believe you are the light source?
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quote:
"you argue for the sake of it with only opinion and no verifiable fact."


Either you accept a standard or you do not. Either you accept that the light has a source or it doesn't.
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quote:
"I'll say this. I've met few intellectual, rhetorical, or logical juggernauts on the siccness. heresy is one of those few.
so if i compare you under heresy it is a compliment to him and a slant against you."



this still doesn't answer why you keep referencing Heresy. Not just in the post toward me, but also in one toward Vyasa.
I see now what you're goal is here; brownie points from Heresy...
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quote:
"I am sure if i was having this conversation with him or a couple other they would have me laughing not at the ignorance only of what they say but the cleverness they would use to get their point across."


Sorry I couldn't make you laugh. But, then again, your ignorance hasn't made me laugh either. I have heard what you've been saying, before from others. I actually would have soaked it up a lot more if we had approached each other maybe 6 months or so ago.
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quote:
"the points you argue against me with some I've already stated others are just ridiculous."


Only if this means that you can't argue them...
You are going to have to admit to your agnosticism. You are going to have to admit that you have no standard. That you have no true source to your light.
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quote:
"feel how you will but I gleen nothing from this discourse. I found Vy much more engaging."


Great.
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quote:
"i'm finished with you folks. respect"



it hardly started to be finished. You jumped out with accusations from your misunderstandings. Do what you do...
 
May 17, 2002
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#57
wow fuccoff is illiterate and a immature. you're on my top list of favorite dummies now buddy. fucking-A dude :)

@9165150 - you are a ridiculously norbid but wonderful source of laughter I hope that people like blight heresy vy foetwin 20sixx tooper etc are reading the foolishness you speak i could effortlessly tear everyline you wrote to shreds, but damn. it shoud be illegal to laugh this much.

top me you are likened unto a flea telling an elephant i will push you over and you will fall.

your premise is pure fallacy
 
May 13, 2002
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#58
Something you got to understand about XianeX when you argue with him is his technique. He loves to call out other people's names when he argues with someone else...in a weak attempt to discredit them. He knows that by giving credit to a group of people while discrediting one, it draws the group closer to his perspective. Elementary psychology. Xianex loves playing psychological games. In fact he is playing a different game with Heresy as well--you may think it is brownie points but that is not his goal. With Heresy he has a bigger game, and purpose, on his mind which I will not get into. You can see it, it is quite obvious on "why do muhafukas take this religion shit so seriously". Especially on Xianex's most recent post on that thread at 4/24/03 5:01pm.

Xianex, some people may not be able to see the games your playing but they are blatantly obvious to me. I don't like people with hidden intentions.
 
May 17, 2002
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#59
I'm glad that you were so easily able to figure me out. It is a pleasant thing to have a person who is an afficianado on myself.

i never knew it was possible to ascertain certain knowledge about a person you've never met. you must be psychic.

your logic is flawed. when have I used another persons name to discredit heresy? hmm? when have i used another persons name to discredit you? hmm? you really need to practice getting you facts straight before you publish such slander.

why would I need anyone to draw closer to my perspective. If you havent notice I stand alone on these boards. I clique with no one. and the people that I actually do associate with in any frequency no one will know unless they did some clever searching.

you are in error.

Elementary psychology huh? how many of those people can you honestly say give a fucc about my opinion? how many of them think that my agenda is common with theirs? I am quite sure all those that i have mentioned may respect me but are not so naive to hold all of my opinions as golden.

you are a foolish person to make such assumptions.

hidden intentions eh? haha how ludicrous. how can i be so hidden when I make my purposes so well viewed?

funny thing is: I've never asked you to like me for my good and or bad intentions.actually, I've never invited you personally to ever speak to me. to be truthful you till this day since at least 2 1/2 years ago have not had one pleasant word to say to me from jump.

you must be the one with hidden intentions. you always sneak up and approach me after me and heresy have discourse. It is quite apparent to me now that you arent his flunky but a passive agressive individual that is afraid to face me head up. why don't you address me personally without the blanket of someone elses argument if you really want to contest me. that is if you arent scared :)

how amusing. An obviously pathologically challenged passive aggressor calls me weak & elementary.

please if I am playing ANY game EXPOSE ME! TELL THE WORLD WHAT GAME I AM PLAYING hahahaha. I'm warming up the popcorn on this one. I'm sure Heresy would be interested if not amused at a glimpse of what "trickery" i may be cooking up against him.

you amuse me more than 9165150.

what possibly besides a business association or friendship could i possibly gain from heresy? monetary gain? fame? hoes? please expound.

I'm sure soon me and heresy may have our first telephone conversation. since you won't be sidelining to interject I think you'll miss out on how civil our words will be to one another.

I think you are mislead in the hype of what you see written on these boards. you must think that I find those that I challenge as inferior to me. quite to the contrary. I know that every person here is an asset and I can learn just as much from those I try to feed ism to.

I lament your misguidance
 
Nov 17, 2002
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#60
XianeX said:
@9165150 - you are a ridiculously norbid but wonderful source of laughter I hope that people like blight heresy vy foetwin 20sixx tooper etc are reading the foolishness you speak i could effortlessly tear everyline you wrote to shreds, but damn. it shoud be illegal to laugh this much.

top me you are likened unto a flea telling an elephant i will push you over and you will fall.

your premise is pure fallacy [/B]


I am asking for your "effortless attempt" to tear every line I write to shreds. Yadda, yadda... DO SOMETHING.


All you do is sit there and type about how I am this, or I am that... DO SOMETHING.

YOu have shown me NO PREMISE, on your behalf.

You have barely asked any questions and have assumed much to bring you to such foolish conclusions about what I am saying...
Instead of using a pointless "flea and elephant" analogy... DO SOMETHING!