What are your beliefs?

[n9newunsixx5150]

Who is to say that all of our powers are GIVEN to us by the Divine? They allow us to have powers because we have the ability. I suppose that you could argue that they are given to us, but I don't believe that. We have science here on earth, and witches use aspects of science to make things happen. As a witch casting a spell, like I have said before, we are merely directing energy into the Universe to result in an outcome. Sometimes it doesn't work because it is not supposed to. Of course, there is always divine intervention in some situations, and when that happens, it is for a great reason.

If you are referring to the Supreme Absoloue Truth of what your follow or believe, then why would I necessarily know what you are talking about? Please, guide me to a link to understand...

The Divine allows us to have powers because we have the ability, yes. But does not the Divine also allow us to have those abilities? What is it that you have that was not given to you? This body was given to you. Thus the capacity to manipulate the energy around you was given to you.

The Supreme Absolute Truth is non-sectarian. It is a very basic concept that refers to the supreme controller. Just like you are talking about controlling energy (ie having powers), you are also being controlled. So the Supreme Absolute Truth is that which is subject to none's control. It is also the eternal existence that we, as spirit-souls, are all part and parcel of. How can we say that we were not given everything we have when we are subject to so many circumstances?

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

no. I was stating that we are not a people who believes in pushing those who do not understand (or want to) into believeing that our way is "right" I quote ly de angels "witchcraft theory and practice, pg 41 second paragraph of the law of conguity....

I guess what I am wondering is, what is "your way"? I'm trying to gather what it is without making assumptions because to be honest, other Wiccans I have spoken with deal very little with knowledge of the self and its relationship with the Absolute. Promoting this knowledge does not mean trying to scare others with eternal hellfire or anything.

we all kno like attracts like and if someone wants to learn the wayz and understand what u do then they will definately kno who to come too. I guess what it boils down too is that we both believe in the absoulte truth, but we differ on how it should be spread. My take is i have no problems teaching somebody who wishes to learn.

How should the absolute truth be spread, according to what you follow?

 

[TROLL]

I guess what I am wondering is, what is "your way"? I'm trying to gather what it is without making assumptions because to be honest, other Wiccans I have spoken with deal very little with knowledge of the self and its relationship with the Absolute. Promoting this knowledge does not mean trying to scare others with eternal hellfire or anything.

Oh, well i think it would depend on what you refer to when u say the "absolute truth" and of the "self"

best way to describe my "way" is that of the balancer. I feel as if i have sufficent knowledge to tap into the diffrent areas of my mind to dictate an outcome of physical manifestaion through control of the energies that surround us all. I believe that all gods are one god (male) and all godesses are one godess (female)

How should the absolute truth be spread, according to what you follow?

through willful participation by those that wish to learn.i always took on the assumption that its not neccisary to "look" for potentail witches, but that they will inevitabley look for you. then what would come to pass would be a teacher/student process of why we're here,where we came from, what we do and the importance of understanding something instead of merely reading and then remembering.[/quote]

The Divine allows us to have powers because we have the ability, yes. But does not the Divine also allow us to have those abilities? What is it that you have that was not given to you? This body was given to you. Thus the capacity to manipulate the energy around you was given to you.

I hate to make 2 quotes from the same person within one thread but again...ly de angels....

a witch is born, not made.

 

[MackRavenn]

PHOTON33424EVIL WORSHIPPER!!!!!!
me: No .
PHOTON33424:YES YOU ARE!!!!
me: : ok ok, yes i studied satanism.
PHOTON33424:I KNEW IT!!!
me:congratulations your a psychic....dipshit.
PHOTON33424:fuck you fag
me:hey im outta eye of newt, would u prefer that bow legged broad with buck teeth down the street from you over halle?
PHOTON33424:SHUT THE FUCK UP.
PHOTON33424:YOU WHITE 666 HOMO.
me:im mexican and chipewa.
PHOTON33424:IM CHRISTIAN AND PROUD OF IT
me:my condolences.
PHOTON33424: GO PRAY TO A ROCK AND MARRY A TREE.
me: handfasting
PHOTON33424:WHAT??
me: we handfast.
PHOTON33424:WHATEVER THE FUCK THAT MEANS.
me:lol
PHOTON33424:I BET YOU GET YOUR ASS BEAT BY THE WHITE LITTLE CATHOLIC'S IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. GOD WANTED IT THAT WAY.
me: no, actually, my beliefs promote an eye for an eye while its yours that tell u to turn the other cheek.
PHOTON33424: SO FUCKIN WHAT?
me: not a good christian are u?
PHOTON33424:Fuck you

I read this to a Christian friend of mine and she was appalled at what this guy makes Christians looks like...What an ignorant jackass...she said "He is who needs to be burned at the stake..."

 

[MackRavenn]

The Divine allows us to have powers because we have the ability, yes. But does not the Divine also allow us to have those abilities? What is it that you have that was not given to you? This body was given to you. Thus the capacity to manipulate the energy around you was given to you.

I believe that we were definitely given what we have, however I believe that we were also given an free will. I do not think of my powers as GIVEN to me. I think of them as provided if chosen to use. We all have a choice. I do not consider that the Divine has given just a select few these powers, so that's what I mean when I say they did not GIVE them to ME. I look at it like, they are all there for everyone if they really want it. I have what everyone else is able to take advantage of. So all of those people who think those powers are especially for them I feel are sadly mistaken. Anyone can open the gate of learning and divinity. But, if I use witchcraft I cannot attribute it to myself who did those good deeds. I do attribute outcomes to the Goddess.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Oh, well i think it would depend on what you refer to when u say the "absolute truth" and of the "self"

the Absolute Truth I refer to is that to which we are all related. It is that which does not fall as we do. It is our support, the Superself. The self (aka soul) is the actual living entity (as opposed to the temporal body). It is eternally dependent on the Absolute. If you believe in reincarnation then you should understand that it is the self which transmigrates from one body to the next. Do you have another understanding of the self?

best way to describe my "way" is that of the balancer. I feel as if i have sufficent knowledge to tap into the diffrent areas of my mind to dictate an outcome of physical manifestaion through control of the energies that surround us all. I believe that all gods are one god (male) and all godesses are one godess (female)

There are so many ways to approach this...

For one, and not to bash on what you do, but I question the practicality such "balancing" and controlling of energies has regarding to transcendental soul. In and of themselves, these abilities hold no value to the soul. Now, if we use them to sustain a good society wherein God-realization is promoted then they do have a spiritual benefit. Do you follow what I am saying? In other words, without the Supreme Absolute Truth (aka God) as the center of activity, such activities have no real value.
Another way to approach this is to realize that all abilities are given by God. "Given" may also mean that we are "born" with them. There is no difference. Allow me to make a mundane example: Your parents gave you some of their physical features. Yes, you were born with these features, but apparently being born with them didn't stop you from receiving them from your parents.

through willful participation by those that wish to learn.i always took on the assumption that its not neccisary to "look" for potentail witches, but that they will inevitabley look for you. then what would come to pass would be a teacher/student process of why we're here,where we came from, what we do and the importance of understanding something instead of merely reading and then remembering.

Okay. I don't think we need to force anything on anyone. So I agree with you for the most part. I feel it is necessary to preach the basic philosophies to people without shoving anything down anyone's throat. Then one can determine who is actually interested in hearing. One should also lead by example. People who are interested will naturally inquire.

I hate to make 2 quotes from the same person within one thread but again...ly de angels....

a witch is born, not made.

As I explained, although being made is not necessarily being born, being born is being made.

 

[MackRavenn]

Then would you not agree that helping others means guiding them to this goal? If we are helping others in their physical or mental conditions but not promoting knowledge of the self and its relationship with the absolute then what is the value of our help?

So if we're not guiding anyone to "The Absoloute Truth", then our help is meaningless? Is this what I'm understanding from you? I think you have neglected to look at this objectively. By applying God to everything you do not see that I, as a witch, can be a valuable aid in all aspects, and that not all people believe in the Absoloute Truth like you, or need to believe in it this lifetime. Furthermore, there is no absolute evidence that there is an absoloute truth...We all may have our own truths, and therefore we cannot be invasive to what other people believe.

And if there is reincarnation, then why are we concerned with showing them the way to the absoloute truth? Every soul will find their way to what is necessary for them to learn and grow and it is not for me to decide what is right for them. Your pressing of your own beliefs is reminding me of when I used to be a Christian....

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

So if we're not guiding anyone to "The Absoloute Truth", then our help is meaningless? Is this what I'm understanding from you?

Concerning the eternal, transcendental soul, the actual living entity, yes, anything devoid of God-realization is meaningless. We can heal people's headaches time and again but if we do not promote knowledge of the self and its relationship to the absolute in those moments of clarity then we are simply helping people become more comfortable animals.

I think you have neglected to look at this objectively. By applying God to everything you do not see that I, as a witch, can be a valuable aid in all aspects, and that not all people believe in the Absoloute Truth like you, or need to believe in it this lifetime. Furthermore, there is no absolute evidence that there is an absoloute truth...We all may have our own truths, and therefore we cannot be invasive to what other people believe.

How can I be sympathetic for your doubt if the assertion that there is no absolute truth can therefore not be true absolutely?
It is also worthy to note that if there is no absolute truth then there is no way to look at anything objectively.

And if there is reincarnation, then why are we concerned with showing them the way to the absoloute truth? Every soul will find their way to what is necessary for them to learn and grow and it is not for me to decide what is right for them. Your pressing of your own beliefs is reminding me of when I used to be a Christian....

Human life is meant for self-realization. Who knows how many millions of years of abominable conditions some of us had to endure before finally coming to the platform of human life? And who knows how much longer it would take to get it back if we waste this life? The Absolute Truth is right for everyone whether they realize it or not. It is the inevitable conclusion. If it wasn't then it wouldn't be the absolute truth. I am not saying we should shove knowledge down people's throats. We can preach peacefully and tactfully so as to induce people's inquiry but people will naturally accept and reject certain things based on their material conditioning. Those who are sincere will keep an open mind and take up the study for themselves. We shouldn't just approach things from the fatalist point of view and not promote spiritual knowledge, thinking that people will just come to it by themselves. Sometimes it takes a tap on the shoulder to get people interested. What I am proposing is a middle ground, not a black or white situation but a gray. We don't have to pressure people and use scare tactics but at the same time we shouldn't just cease talking about these things. Just like our conversation now. We can use reason and philosophy to get our points across and see what we come up with. And if you don't like reason and philosophy, well, you can just go suffer eternal hellfire (i'm joking of course).

 

[m.w.merlino]

Concerning the eternal, transcendental soul, the actual living entity, yes, anything devoid of God-realization is meaningless. We can heal people's headaches time and again but if we do not promote knowledge of the self and its relationship to the absolute in those moments of clarity then we are simply helping people become more comfortable animals.

In your opinion, what is "the absolute truth"? An actual person the resembles a human, a type of deity, or an intangible meaning/idea? And what do you feel a person can gain through a relationship with this truth?

How can I be sympathetic for your doubt if the assertion that there is no absolute truth can therefore not be true absolutely?
It is also worthy to note that if there is no absolute truth then there is no way to look at anything objectively.

And how can I (as a person that does not believe what you believe) be sympathetic to your assertion, when the concept of an absolute truth IS NOT truly objective.

Human life is meant for self-realization. Who knows how many millions of years of abominable conditions some of us had to endure before finally coming to the platform of human life? And who knows how much longer it would take to get it back if we waste this life? The Absolute Truth is right for everyone whether they realize it or not. It is the inevitable conclusion. If it wasn't then it wouldn't be the absolute truth.

This is a very lofty conclusion drawn around a very vague ideology. Again, I am VERY interested in this concept, but I am having trouble grasping it without an explaination. Help?

I am not saying we should shove knowledge down people's throats. We can preach peacefully and tactfully so as to induce people's inquiry but people will naturally accept and reject certain things based on their material conditioning. Those who are sincere will keep an open mind and take up the study for themselves. We shouldn't just approach things from the fatalist point of view and not promote spiritual knowledge, thinking that people will just come to it by themselves. Sometimes it takes a tap on the shoulder to get people interested. What I am proposing is a middle ground, not a black or white situation but a gray. We don't have to pressure people and use scare tactics but at the same time we shouldn't just cease talking about these things. Just like our conversation now. We can use reason and philosophy to get our points across and see what we come up with. And if you don't like reason and philosophy, well, you can just go suffer eternal hellfire (i'm joking of course).

I agree 100%. I am confused however by the "material conditioning" statement in so far as to say that I am not sure what you mean by material conditioning. Are you refering to orthodox religion being bashed into the populous? Elaborate please!

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

In your opinion, what is "the absolute truth"? An actual person the resembles a human, a type of deity, or an intangible meaning/idea? And what do you feel a person can gain through a relationship with this truth?

The Absolute Truth is both personal and impersonal. Paratattva (the Supreme Absolute Truth) is known in three aspects, namely, the impersonal Brahman feature, the localized Parmatma (Supersoul) feature and Bhagavan, the Supreme Person. We are part and parcel of that Paratattva. Somehow or other we have fallen into ignorance of our real position and now we are suffering the reactions of our work through this material energy. We are spirit-souls who actually have nothing to do with material engagement, yet due to our ignorance we act materialistically and suffer the tug-o-war of attraction and aversion regarding the interaction between the senses and the objects experienced by the senses. This leads to bewilderment, which leads to envy, anger, etc. and that continues the illusion of material existence (in this case, "material existence" means thinking oneself to be the body and having nothing to do with God).

And how can I (as a person that does not believe what you believe) be sympathetic to your assertion, when the concept of an absolute truth IS NOT truly objective.

The concept of an absolute truth is very much objective. There is no logic in the phrase, "subjective absolute". Either it is subjective or it is absolute.

This is a very lofty conclusion drawn around a very vague ideology. Again, I am VERY interested in this concept, but I am having trouble grasping it without an explaination. Help?

Where is your difficulty exactly? We are souls part and parcel of the Absolute and not mere material organisms. This is the basic premise of a theist. If you are atheist then you will reject knowledge of the soul.

I agree 100%. I am confused however by the "material conditioning" statement in so far as to say that I am not sure what you mean by material conditioning. Are you refering to orthodox religion being bashed into the populous? Elaborate please!

The premise of the theist, as I explained, is that we are eternally spirit-souls. This body is temporary and so bodily knowledge is ultimately meaningless. Material conditioning has to do with the effect our material encagement has on the subtle mind. In general it produces what is known as "false ego". That is, to think oneself to be the body. This ego compells us to act in relation to the body and its sense gratification (or that of other bodies). And this activity perpetuates material conditioning and ignorance of the self/soul.

 

[m.w.merlino]

The Absolute Truth is both personal and impersonal. Paratattva (the Supreme Absolute Truth) is known in three aspects, namely, the impersonal Brahman feature, the localized Parmatma (Supersoul) feature and Bhagavan, the Supreme Person. We are part and parcel of that Paratattva. Somehow or other we have fallen into ignorance of our real position and now we are suffering the reactions of our work through this material energy. We are spirit-souls who actually have nothing to do with material engagement, yet due to our ignorance we act materialistically and suffer the tug-o-war of attraction and aversion regarding the interaction between the senses and the objects experienced by the senses. This leads to bewilderment, which leads to envy, anger, etc. and that continues the illusion of material existence (in this case, "material existence" means thinking oneself to be the body and having nothing to do with God)..

Wouldn't you agree that envy, anger, and human suffering are all pathways to self-realization and therefore neccasary?

The concept of an absolute truth is very much objective. There is no logic in the phrase, "subjective absolute". Either it is subjective or it is absolute..

How do you apply the concept of absolute truth to those who do not "realize" what their true purpose is? For what reason would someone be ignorant to such an omnipotent concept?

Where is your difficulty exactly? We are souls part and parcel of the Absolute and not mere material organisms. This is the basic premise of a theist. If you are atheist then you will reject knowledge of the soul. .

I understand that yes.

The premise of the theist, as I explained, is that we are eternally spirit-souls. This body is temporary and so bodily knowledge is ultimately meaningless. Material conditioning has to do with the effect our material encagement has on the subtle mind. In general it produces what is known as "false ego". That is, to think oneself to be the body. This ego compells us to act in relation to the body and its sense gratification (or that of other bodies). And this activity perpetuates material conditioning and ignorance of the self/soul.

If bodily knowledge is ultimately meaningless then what is the point of the body? I believe that bodily knowledge is the vessel to enlightenment, and a valuable tool that compliments the spirit encased within it.

 

[n9newunsixx5150]

Wouldn't you agree that envy, anger, and human suffering are all pathways to self-realization and therefore neccasary?

Necessary as a means to an end, yes, but also only necessary because we have fallen in the first place. Our initial fall happened because we have a small amount of freedom. We are simultaneously under control and free. I think that is what is difficult for a lot of people to grasp. Although God is the Supreme Controller and nothing happens without His will, we have our relative sense of control. We think and make choices from our relative perspective even though from the absolute perspective everything we do is being controlled. So at some point in our existence we desired to associate with this illusory material energy. Perhaps in the beginning our intent was harmless. For example, perhaps a soul desired to create for God. Of course, nothing needs to be created in the eternal spiritual world so God gave them the post of Brahma, the first created living entity in a material universe who is empowered by God in how to create. Then perhaps this soul later became so enamored by the material creation that they developed an attachment for it which led to perpetual births and ignorance of the soul's constitutional position. Suffering is certainly necessary as a means to an end. If it weren’t necessary then it wouldn't be here. But the idea isn't to suffer and make no progress. Suffering eternally is not punishment, it is torture. Punishment means that one will be given the chance to rectify oneself.

How do you apply the concept of absolute truth to those who do not "realize" what their true purpose is? For what reason would someone be ignorant to such an omnipotent concept?

Those who do not realize their position as spirit-souls and who are not interested in such knowledge will remain under the control of Maya (material illusion). One is always being controlled by God, either directly or indirectly through the agent of Maya. The difference is that when one is being controlled indirectly he/she suffers due to ignorance of his/her constitutional position. In the spiritual world, pleasure and suffering are transcendental. They are non-different from each other and both of them relate to one's relationship with God. For example, in the Srimad Bhagavatam and especially in the Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta it explains the different rasas (flavors) of transcendental love for God. Part of these rasas include intense emotion due to separation from the Personality of Godhead. So this is a sense of distress that even exists in the spiritual world but it should not be equated to the distress we have here as a result of material attraction. What we have here is some kind of distorted reflection of the transcendental fact.

If bodily knowledge is ultimately meaningless then what is the point of the body? I believe that bodily knowledge is the vessel to enlightenment, and a valuable tool that compliments the spirit encased within it.

Bodily knowledge in and of itself is meaningless. Sure, if bodily knowledge is used to keep the body healthy so that the mind can be steady in its devotion to God then yes, such bodily knowledge is beneficial. The body is a vessel to enlightenment, a means to an end. A very valuable tool indeed, especially the human body.