Video of pig attack

[HERESY]

but not case closed... they had security who confiscated a good amount of contraband to begin with, it would be impossible to think that NOBODY snuck anything in...

But how did the police kno that johnny skateboard snuck in a dubsak or a pill??? THEY DIDNT...

can we all say excessive force????

It is a case of excessive force but the place was infested with drugs. The police will get off. If they DON'T get off it will be because the kids were WHITE.

@Psilo707 you said:

All concerts, raves, festivals, parties, and any situation where young(er) people collect in a group such as this... Has Drugs.

Please clarify your statement. Are you implying ALL functions/social gatherings with young people contain drugs? Or specifically raves?

Events should not be shut down because illegal substances are present.

Yes they should. If someones child had overdosed on illegal drugs at the party everyone would be crying about why the party was allowed or not shut down. If someone had got high and stomped someone to death because they saw green goblins hovering over the person they beat up people would have complained.

DRUGS are ILLEGAL. ANY GATHERING WHERE ILLEGAL ACTIVITY IS PRESENT NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

DRUGS are ILLEGAL. ANY GATHERING WHERE ILLEGAL ACTIVITY IS PRESENT NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

LMAO, are you being serious or are you just trying to stir the pot? Every club in amerika should be shut down then. Club owners/party throwers cannot be responsible for every single person who sneaks drugs in. Obviously if people are doing it in the open they get kicked out but how can you stop a kid from popping a pill and entering your club/party? You can’t; there will always be drug use amongst the youth, always has always will.

 

[KleanKut]

I dont know why the posted the video, i think it hurt there case. in that clip i saw no evidence of ecessive forse being exersised.

 

[HERESY]

LMAO, are you being serious or are you just trying to stir the pot? Every club in amerika should be shut down then. Club owners/party throwers cannot be responsible for every single person who sneaks drugs in. Obviously if people are doing it in the open they get kicked out but how can you stop a kid from popping a pill and entering your club/party? You can’t; there will always be drug use amongst the youth, always has always will.

I'm being serious. Every club in america should NOT be shut down. You CAN'T say EVERY club in america is a place for drugs.

Club owners/party throwers cannot be responsible for every single person who sneaks drugs in.

No but they are responsible for promoting a clean event and providing a safe environment.

Obviously if people are doing it in the open they get kicked out but how can you stop a kid from popping a pill and entering your club/party?

You can stop a kid from entering your party IF you know the person is on drugs (at THAT time) or you saw them doing drugs.

You can’t; there will always be drug use amongst the youth, always has always will

You can stop it but you probably can't stop it all.





Now, I looked at that video and to be honest I did NOT see a use of excessive force. It does seem excessive but I did not see the various claims made by those who are crying "excessive force". They used force no doubt about it. Excessive?

I'm going to make another comment and some of you might think this is waaaaaaaaaaaaay from left field. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WHITE AMERICA NEEDS.I'm not saying people deserve to be treated like second class citizens but lets face it. The majority of white people in america are blind to police brutality/excessive force/misconduct. The more this happens to white people the more sensitive they will be to the plight of others.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I'm being serious. Every club in america should NOT be shut down. You CAN'T say EVERY club in america is a place for drugs.

Just about every club in amerika has people on drugs. I just went to a club on Saturday; a number of people were rollin, which they took before they entered the club. Did the club promote drug use? Nope. Is there anyway the bouncers could have known these people were on drugs? Nope.

No but they are responsible for promoting a clean event and providing a safe environment.

If there is security at the door, that's all they can do. If you smoke weed or pop pills before you go to a club, or if you sneak pills in how can the security stop this? Full cavity searches? I see people get denied access at the door all the time because they look fucked up (whether they’re too drunk or high) and honestly that’s all you can do. If they really want to stop the drug problem they need to go at the source, i.e the drug traffickers, the corrupt cops/cia agents, etc. NOT the individual users.

You can stop a kid from entering your party IF you know the person is on drugs (at THAT time) or you saw them doing drugs.

Which is what clubs/parties do and thus the reason they have security/bouncers at the door.

You can stop it but you probably can't stop it all.

Can’t stop anything.

Now, I looked at that video and to be honest I did NOT see a use of excessive force. It does seem excessive but I did not see the various claims made by those who are crying "excessive force". They used force no doubt about it. Excessive?

The army, police, helicopters, etc. is not excessive? For a rave!?! They rarely even use that kind of force for tracking down murderers.

I'm going to make another comment and some of you might think this is waaaaaaaaaaaaay from left field. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WHITE AMERICA NEEDS.

Let me finish this sentence:

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WHITE AMERICA NEEDS TO BECOME A POLICE STATE

I really don’t see how this is a white/black issue. Maybe I’m not seeing the big picture but raves are not white’s only parties. Maybe in Salt Lake City the majority of whites, but if you’ve ever been to a party in Seattle (like many other parts of the amerika) you’ll know that all races attend.

 

[HERESY]

Just about every club in amerika has people on drugs.

Thats up for debate.

I just went to a club on Saturday; a number of people were rollin, which they took before they entered the club. Did the club promote drug use? Nope. Is there anyway the bouncers could have known these people were on drugs? Nope.

There was not a way to know but to be honest thats not what we are debating. I've went to upscale clubs where drugs were STRICTLY prohibited and upscale clubs where they where sliding off snowy mountain right in front of the security guards. It's on the establishment and owner to set the rules. It's not right to make the claim that all clubs in america have drugs.

If there is security at the door, that's all they can do. If you smoke weed or pop pills before you go to a club, or if you sneak pills in how can the security stop this? Full cavity searches? I see people get denied access at the door all the time because they look fucked up (whether they’re too drunk or high) and honestly that’s all you can do. If they really want to stop the drug problem they need to go at the source, i.e the drug traffickers, the corrupt cops/cia agents, etc. NOT the individual users.

You have no arguement here.

Which is what clubs/parties do and thus the reason they have security/bouncers at the door.

No one implied it wasn't the case.

Can’t stop anything.

Up for debate, one I'm not willing to partake in at this time.

The army, police, helicopters, etc. is not excessive? For a rave!?! They rarely even use that kind of force for tracking down murderers.

I didn't see any members of the armed forces. The police yes, the army? Yes it is excessive for a rave you have no arguement here. Is it EXCESSIVE FORCE? No.

I really don’t see how this is a white/black issue. Maybe I’m not seeing the big picture but raves are not white’s only parties. Maybe in Salt Lake City the majority of whites, but if you’ve ever been to a party in Seattle (like many other parts of the amerika) you’ll know that all races attend.

The majority of white americans are NOT sensitive to the needs and conditions of other people. Blacks and whites party together! HOORAY!!!! Thats not the point. The point is the majority of white people in america do NOT care about what happens to minorities UNTIL it affects white america.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

There was not a way to know but to be honest thats not what we are debating. I've went to upscale clubs where drugs were STRICTLY prohibited and upscale clubs where they where sliding off snowy mountain right in front of the security guards. It's on the establishment and owner to set the rules. It's not right to make the claim that all clubs in america have drugs.

Most clubs IMO.

I didn't see any members of the armed forces. The police yes, the army? Yes it is excessive for a rave you have no arguement here. Is it EXCESSIVE FORCE? No.

Really? If you watch the video you can see men in army fatigues, army helmets, army rifles etc. They are clearly soldiers and not simply police, unless of course police now dress as the army when they conduct raids.

Excessive force? I think you can say so, the video shows soldiers yelling and screaming at these kids, pressing them down and pushing them down in the dirt. Not as bad as what we’re expected to see, but excessive nonetheless.

The majority of white americans are NOT sensitive to the needs and conditions of other people. Blacks and whites party together! HOORAY!!!! Thats not the point. The point is the majority of white people in america do NOT care about what happens to minorities UNTIL it affects white america.

I cant argue against that.

 

[KleanKut]

either way 20 sixx even if the national guard was there, they were there for crowd control. a bunch of drunk teenagers in an open feild with a unpopular orinization breakingup there fun. I have seen cop cars get fucked up and cops get socked up at events with 300 people. now imagine a good sized rave 1500-3000 people. all hell could break loose. Mabye it was an excessive SHOW of force. Hwever whenever you are quelling a disturbance that is the most peaceful way to do it. Exsessive show of force. However i did not see exsessive physical force being used IMO.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

I didn’t really see anything that bad, physically that is (although there have been reports of physical abuse, tear gas, etc. but that means little w/o a video) but is it really necessary to use this kind of force on a rave with 300-400 kids? Not to mention the party organizers took all the legal steps necessary in order to through a legit, legal private party. What’s the point of busting the party? This seems like it was strictly for publicity to show “look, we can do whatever the fuck we want no matter if your shit is legal or not.”

 

[Gringo Starr]

I agree with 2-0-Sixx...theres only so much you can do as far as drug control at parties,clubs,bars...hell even CHURCH...it dont make a difference...if a muthafucka is DETERMINED to get high and do there best to HIDE it..trust that...it WILL happen...how many times do you go into a bathroom and one of these "up-scale clubs" and some cat is sniffin a rail????all he has to do is hide that lil old pouch of cane in his shoe...or his girls purse...or even in her bra...its that simple....how bout these cats that go to shows...whether it be heavy metal or rap or Kenny G for christ sakes...and someone lights up a joint...trust me...you can hide weed just as easy as coke...

IF the flyer says "DRUG FREE"...like dude said...all you can do is go on judgement...and only check a person so much before its invading privacy and personal space...and if every bouncer in the WORLD were like that....it would be highly likely that people would get tired of bein accused of havin dope or whatever on em...cus all the sudden...everyone is a target....

You cant stop someone from thier habit/addiction/"fun"....especially if they can hide it/disguise it/look completly normal due to high tolerence of WHATEVER the case maybe....

DONT blame the establishment...BLAME the individual....plain & simple...it only takes one to fuck it up for everyone...

 

[HERESY]

Really? If you watch the video you can see men in army fatigues, army helmets, army rifles etc. They are clearly soldiers and not simply police, unless of course police now dress as the army when they conduct raids.

In my city they often do. I've seen them in fatigues and I've also saw them use a armored vehicle on two occassions. One time they were in fatigues and raided my neighbors home (two houses up from me). You can find the story here (it won't discuss the raid but it's a good read):

http://www.vallejonews.com/articles/index.cfm?artOID=28685&webpage=79&s=1

After THAT raid they raided it one more time and FORCED the occupants to sell the home. I can't say if the people in the video were soldiers or not. Would resources such as the millitary be wasted like that? This is america....possibly.

Excessive force? I think you can say so, the video shows soldiers yelling and screaming at these kids, pressing them down and pushing them down in the dirt. Not as bad as what we’re expected to see, but excessive nonetheless.

Yelling and screaming isn't excessive force. Pressing them down into the dirt is not excessive force if they are trying to get you down, get your hands free and place cuffs on you (which is what I saw). The video of the person being forced on the ground was not excessive. If they shoved the person on the ground, twisted their arm up to their neck, racked them over the head with flash lights and sprayed pepper spray all while the person was subdued it would be excessive.

but is it really necessary to use this kind of force on a rave with 300-400 kids?

NO!

What’s the point of busting the party? This seems like it was strictly for publicity to show “look, we can do whatever the fuck we want no matter if your shit is legal or not.”

Pretty much!

 

[2-0-Sixx]

In my city they often do. I've seen them in fatigues and I've also saw them use a armored vehicle on two occassions. One time they were in fatigues and raided my neighbors home (two houses up from me). You can find the story here (it won't discuss the raid but it's a good read):

http://www.vallejonews.com/articles/index.cfm?artOID=28685&webpage=79&s=1

After THAT raid they raided it one more time and FORCED the occupants to sell the home. I can't say if the people in the video were soldiers or not. Would resources such as the millitary be wasted like that? This is america....possibly.

Were they wearing army helmets and equipment? I've seen cops wear fatigues a few times, but never in complete army gear, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do, the police are becoming more and more like the army and vice versa.

Yelling and screaming isn't excessive force. Pressing them down into the dirt is not excessive force if they are trying to get you down, get your hands free and place cuffs on you (which is what I saw). The video of the person being forced on the ground was not excessive. If they shoved the person on the ground, twisted their arm up to their neck, racked them over the head with flash lights and sprayed pepper spray all while the person was subdued it would be excessive.

I think this is up for debate, depending on who you're talking to. IMO, 5 soldiers for one kid, yelling/screaming and pushing them in the dirt is excessive (but not as bad as it could have been).

My main issue is the amount of force they used, which IMO was unlawful since the organizers had all the legal paper work necessary. Seems like a pretty massive operation to have helicopters, dogs, police and possibly the army to bust a teenage/young adult party.

 

[ColdBlooded]

That's what they get for going to a "Rave", it's 2005 for christ sake!

 

[Psilo707]

^ They never called it a "rave" themselves, thats the media and the public (i.e. most outsiders) word. It was a large Drum and Bass party, a genre of music I personally love and would never associate it with any sort of candy raver shit.



If you think public events should be shut down because there 'may' be drugs present on individuals within, holy shit Im glad you arent running the country, or anything for that matter. Thats the most blasphemous fucking crap I've ever personally heard. Your opinions have been crushed and skewed beyond any sort of legitimate, cohesive thinking, and you need to rethink them in my opinion.

Example.

Let's say a club is operating fine with no problems, and none of the people inside 'yet' have any sort of illegal substances on them. A few minutes later, one single guy walks in who has a few pills of E or a few grams of weed on him, and he's willing to share with friends. The club remains to run at a proficient and safe level, the only difference is that there might be a few individuals that have altered their mind states slightly, by choice. No harm comes from it.

In YOUR explanation of the situation, you think that because there is a slight chemical-change within the venue, it needs to be shut down and closed. Even though there is NO way the security could have found drugs on the admitted person(s). I get through any club or rave with ANYTHING I want, always. It's not like they can grab you whereever they want.


Anyway, if the world was run in that fashion, we would live in a fucked up society where every single right we have been given would be stripped away instantly. Fuck that. You're incorrect.

 

[HERESY]

If you think public events should be shut down because there 'may' be drugs present on individuals within, holy shit Im glad you arent running the country, or anything for that matter.

No one ever implied events should be shut down because of speculation. I did said the following:

You can stop a kid from entering your party IF you know the person is on drugs (at THAT time) or you saw them doing drugs.

Your statement is now invalid. BTW, I'm running my own business and have partnership in another business that is often promoted on this site. I "run shit" which has relevence to me and my well being. If I did run america I'd press that "red button" as soon as I stepped in office.

Thats the most blasphemous fucking crap I've ever personally heard.

What did you hear? I never said anything "blasphemous" and you have applied several false concepts to my posts. On another note who cares what you heard?

Your opinions have been crushed and skewed

What opinion of mine has been crushed and skewed? Crushed and skewed by who? YOU?

beyond any sort of legitimate, cohesive thinking, and you need to rethink them in my opinion.

You need to read what has been written and stop applying falsehoods to my posts. Next time form your assessment after you fully comprehend what has been typed.

Let's say a club is operating fine with no problems, and none of the people inside 'yet' have any sort of illegal substances on them. A few minutes later, one single guy walks in who has a few pills of E or a few grams of weed on him, and he's willing to share with friends. The club remains to run at a proficient and safe level, the only difference is that there might be a few individuals that have altered their mind states slightly, by choice. No harm comes from it.

At that point it is an unlawful gathering and breaking the law. If a person had an allergic reaction to the drugs and died as a result who would be responsible? I gurantee the CLUB would have to pay and would also be subjected to lawsuit for not providing a DRUG FREE ENVIRONMENT.

In YOUR explanation of the situation, you think that because there is a slight chemical-change within the venue, it needs to be shut down and closed.

I just gave my explanation but how is it that you already know my opinions? For answers on WHY it should be shut down please READ my previous comments directed towards you AND my previous statement.

Even though there is NO way the security could have found drugs on the admitted person(s).

This was never an issue. If a person sneaks drugs inside the building and doesn't get caught they simply don't get caught. If a person sneaks drugs inside of a building but gets caught AFTER they are inside the building they should be removed.

I get through any club or rave with ANYTHING I want, always. It's not like they can grab you whereever they want.

TMI. Not one person here is interested in your stories about shoving drugs up your ass in hopes of escaping detection.

Anyway, if the world was run in that fashion, we would live in a fucked up society where every single right we have been given would be stripped away instantly.

You must be a drug addict. What type of job do you have? What is your educational background?

You're incorrect.

None of the falsehoods you have attributed to me coincide with the views that I've already stated. YOU are incorrect.

 

[HERESY]

@ 206 you said:

Were they wearing army helmets and equipment?

Yes. Goggles, head gear, bullet proof vests the whole nine. They looked very similar to the people in the video. Only difference is I saw less of them and no helicopters.

but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do, the police are becoming more and more like the army and vice versa.

What surpised me was teh firearms these guys carried. I could see if it was a tactica/swat unit but these cops had HEAT! They had assault weapons no doubts about it.

I think this is up for debate, depending on who you're talking to. IMO, 5 soldiers for one kid, yelling/screaming and pushing them in the dirt is excessive (but not as bad as it could have been).

Yelling and screaming is not excessive force. Pushing them into the dirt to remove weapons, drugs and gain control of them is legal.

My main issue is the amount of force they used, which IMO was unlawful since the organizers had all the legal paper work necessary. Seems like a pretty massive operation to have helicopters, dogs, police and possibly the army to bust a teenage/young adult party.

This is a case of excessive DISPLAY not excessive FORCE.

 

[2-0-Sixx]

What surpised me was teh firearms these guys carried. I could see if it was a tactica/swat unit but these cops had HEAT! They had assault weapons no doubts about it.

Yeah they did have fucking heat. Part of the reason I assumed they were Army.

Yelling and screaming is not excessive force. Pushing them into the dirt to remove weapons, drugs and gain control of them is legal.

Not saying it's illegal, put pushing kids in the dirt at a rave IMO is excessive force. It's not necessary at all, but this is what we expect from the police (if it was the police). But this, like I said, can go either way, depending on who you're talking to. No need to discuss this further I think both of us see eachothers points/views.

 

[FunK-3-FivE]

So apparently it wasn't just cops it was national guard got involved as well... that's who you see in army fatigues w/ assault rifles and thats where the chopper came from (SLC police doesn't have a chopper). Anyways i guess there are now more than a dozen lawsuits and one of the cases is a girl and 4 witnesses that claim 2 national guardsmen took turns taking the girl into a port-a-potty and raping her while the other one would stand outside and keep people away.

 

[KleanKut]

So apparently it wasn't just cops it was national guard got involved as well... that's who you see in army fatigues w/ assault rifles and thats where the chopper came from (SLC police doesn't have a chopper). Anyways i guess there are now more than a dozen lawsuits and one of the cases is a girl and 4 witnesses that claim 2 national guardsmen took turns taking the girl into a port-a-potty and raping her while the other one would stand outside and keep people away.

Im going to have to throw the bull shit flag on this one. how was there 4 witnesses and no one told anyone who was in charge, they jsut let thier friend get passed around, i find thios hard to belive. Im not saying its impossible im jsut saying its unlikely.

 

[WT SAVAGE]

^ lol tell someone in charge?kid "excuse me mr officer, you have 2 or your men raping a woman in the port o let" officer "get the fuck outta here b4 i bust your face and take u to jail" that would be the exact response